|
shivas.wisdom
בּ



Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 13,487
Loc: Turtle Island
Last seen: 56 minutes, 33 seconds
|
|
Quote:
Bigbadwooof said: The point I was making is that some of the most hate-filled people among us are those who do not understand class conflict. People who get caught up in identity politics are suckers. [...] My point is that identity politics causes infighting among people who should be comrades. It's true too.
And some of the strongest advocates for class conflict have understood that social identity is irrevocably intertwined - Emma Goldman immediately comes to mind; a turn of the 20th century anarchist who was also a forerunner in feminist and queer advocacy.
Two beliefs: 'I hate group X' and 'Confronting those who hate group X and systemic social inequality is an inseparable aspect of class struggle'. Both qualify as 'identity politics' but are otherwise fundamentally different.
Like it or not, people are currently divided across both class and social lines. We can recognize that class division lies at the root of economic inequality, while simultaneously recognizing that addressing social division is necessary if we want to create an undivided class comradery. Otherwise, how can you cooperate with those who would deny your individual equality based on your ethnicity, gender, sexual identity, disability, etc etc?
--------------------
|
SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis



Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 7,782
Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
Last seen: 1 day, 2 hours
|
Re: Pigs… [Re: Ice9] 1
#28634339 - 01/25/24 10:45 AM (3 months, 21 days ago) |
|
|
1. It was stated white people are jealous of black success.
2. I agreed and stated this occurs in non whites but it is important to realize the social framework of society. Obviously, the unequal social framework that exists for black people would of course bring out jealousy/injustice/ indifference/ insert emotion at the situation (many cases, rightfully so). Full stop
3. Somehow you thought I had full knowledge of your situation and somehow was diminishing the pure (your words) racial component of the above. I clarified that I wasnt.
4. You also stated why I brought up "nonwhites". Again the conversation started with the component of white jealousy. I agreed and made general statements regarding the impact and causes of jealousy to all peoples, past racial components.
5. You responded and insinuated why to even bring up nonwhites. Like I said, humanity is composed of all colors....thats not an offensive comment and also a true one.
6. You then stated a I was projecting based on merely stating the above.
From all of this, it seems you find my contribution flawed based on your responses to me. If this is not the case, so be it. Only you could answer that.
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
Edited by SirTripAlot (01/25/24 10:45 AM)
|
mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 33,062
Loc: where?
|
|
It was in reference to the movie scene ffs. That you posted.. not a generalized statement.
You triggered my man
|
SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis



Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 7,782
Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
Last seen: 1 day, 2 hours
|
|
I didn't post anything about a movie scene. Triggered? No, but I will clarify accusations of projections and insinuations I believe are baseless.
Edit: Ok, I was amped.
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
Edited by SirTripAlot (01/25/24 12:17 PM)
|
mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 33,062
Loc: where?
|
|
Shit I’m sorry I thought I was replying to wolf 
Derp
|
Bigbadwooof
Snitterbundem The Dirty



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 14,480
Last seen: 5 minutes, 44 seconds
|
|
Quote:
shivas.wisdom said:
Quote:
Bigbadwooof said: The point I was making is that some of the most hate-filled people among us are those who do not understand class conflict. People who get caught up in identity politics are suckers. [...] My point is that identity politics causes infighting among people who should be comrades. It's true too.
And some of the strongest advocates for class conflict have understood that social identity is irrevocably intertwined - Emma Goldman immediately comes to mind; a turn of the 20th century anarchist who was also a forerunner in feminist and queer advocacy.
Two beliefs: 'I hate group X' and 'Confronting those who hate group X and systemic social inequality is an inseparable aspect of class struggle'. Both qualify as 'identity politics' but are otherwise fundamentally different.
Like it or not, people are currently divided across both class and social lines. We can recognize that class division lies at the root of economic inequality, while simultaneously recognizing that addressing social division is necessary if we want to create an undivided class comradery. Otherwise, how can you cooperate with those who would deny your individual equality based on your ethnicity, gender, sexual identity, disability, etc etc?
I wouldn't argue with that assessment. My problem is that, while our politics (in America) has spent the last 50-75 years focusing on issues of race, sexuality, ethnicity, etc it leaves no room for discussion of class issues, which I find to be much more important.
The point that I was making is that people ought to stop focusing on social divisions, and focus more on class divisions. Kaitlyn Jenner has a fundamentally different struggle than the trans person down the street from me. Their struggle is far more akin to mine, and everyone else's on my block.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell Every one of you should see this video. "Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns
 
|
SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis



Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 7,782
Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
Last seen: 1 day, 2 hours
|
|
No worries you turned put to be right in one regard, anyway.
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
|
Kryptos
Stranger

Registered: 11/01/14
Posts: 12,847
Last seen: 48 minutes, 15 seconds
|
|
Quote:
mushboy said: 'if you aint better than a n word than who are you better than?'
yah identity politics
Quote:
Bigbadwooof said: I was making is that some of the most hate-filled people among us are those who do not understand class conflict
not the point of the scene or the movie. watch gene hackman discuss the film he would disagree with you but i guess you know better.
its about racism, violence and blind hatred ingrained in our culture. ... towards black people in case you needed clarification.
Those are, in order; identity politics, expressions of identity politics, and results of identity politics.
|
shivas.wisdom
בּ



Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 13,487
Loc: Turtle Island
Last seen: 56 minutes, 33 seconds
|
|
Quote:
Bigbadwooof said: I wouldn't argue with that assessment. My problem is that, while our politics (in America) has spent the last 50-75 years focusing on issues of race, sexuality, ethnicity, etc it leaves no room for discussion of class issues, which I find to be much more important.
The point that I was making is that people ought to stop focusing on social divisions, and focus more on class divisions. Kaitlyn Jenner has a fundamentally different struggle than the trans person down the street from me. Their struggle is far more akin to mine, and everyone else's on my block.
In theory, absolutely - but how do you translate that into a real practice? I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume that you are a straight white male with no visible disabilities. Do you think it's possible that the way you perceive many social issues will be radically different from the perception of those directly harmed?
Of course, anyone's who's critique doesn't go beyond the social division that personally effects them is lacking as well - but I see the solution to be a more holistic approach which recognizes that both social and economic divisions are important issues that must be confronted together, rather than trying to give one primacy over the other.
--------------------
|
Bigbadwooof
Snitterbundem The Dirty



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 14,480
Last seen: 5 minutes, 44 seconds
|
|
I'm reviving this thread for Blue_Lux. Start from the beginning!
ACAB!
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell Every one of you should see this video. "Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns
 
|
Bigbadwooof
Snitterbundem The Dirty



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 14,480
Last seen: 5 minutes, 44 seconds
|
|
As far as the whole... white privilege thing goes..
I always kinda felt like Theo Von growing up:
si=a3lDur70Xa20XZP9
Now I know that I have benefitted from being white... but it's not something you notice unless you look for it. My brother is half Arab, and the way he cowers to police... even rent-a-cops.. it's humiliating.
But he has a rapsheet as long as a grocery list. And I don't. So there must be something to it. Cuz I've committed WAY more crimes than him.
My brother tried to get me to quit growing shrooms, when he was in prison. I always figured... even if I got caught.. I'd figure a way out of any serious repercussions. And I believe I would.
Aaaand that is where I see identity politics carrying weight. Criminal justice reform. I do, also, see some merit in some form of reparations... firstly, because I always support government money being dolled out to the people, in whatever form it takes, and secondly, because black people were robbed of their heritage, labor, and whatever familial assets they had way back when... of course.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell Every one of you should see this video. "Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns
 
|
Bigbadwooof
Snitterbundem The Dirty



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 14,480
Last seen: 5 minutes, 44 seconds
|
|
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell Every one of you should see this video. "Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns
 
|
|