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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Quote:
Stable Genius said:
oh man the school bus, that's funny
That was from the closing credits of the comedy "Super Troopers"
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Pretty good movie.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#25767472 - 01/25/19 11:09 AM (5 years, 3 days ago) |
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Bigbadwooof said: Is is a real clip? It seemed fake to me lol.
No. The cop is one of the actors in the movie.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: XUL]
#25827435 - 02/21/19 10:30 AM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
XUL said: Dems are after our rights.
What rights are Dems after? The right to healthcare? Affordable college? Social Security?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: Bigbadwooof] 2
#25863278 - 03/09/19 01:59 PM (4 years, 10 months ago) |
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This video shows a stark contrast between American cops and foreign cops.
It's a tradition in Russia for cops to honor women on International Women's Day (8 Mar).
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#25863627 - 03/09/19 04:19 PM (4 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said: When my mom was in Russia, she said the police were corrupt as fuck.
I can't speak to police corruption in Russia. I was citing the differences in attitudes towards people. When was she in Russia?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: chibiabos]
#25864199 - 03/09/19 08:38 PM (4 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
chibiabos said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: This video shows a stark contrast between American cops and foreign cops.
It's a tradition in Russia for cops to honor women on International Women's Day (8 Mar).
Your first and last videos didn't discuss the police at all. Your second video showed no police brutality or violence. Your third and fifth video showed minor police misconduct, but no one was seriously hurt in them. Your fourth video showed self-appointed vigilante Cossack militiamen (who are not police).
Are you agreeing or disagreeing with me? Based on your videos, I'm now thinking you actually agree with me.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (03/09/19 09:17 PM)
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Quote:
shivas.wisdom said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: This video shows a stark contrast between American cops and foreign cops.
It's a tradition in Russia for cops to honor women on International Women's Day (8 Mar).
HOLY FACK! Why are you such an apologist for the Russian state? It's one thing to create your own threads where your defend the occupation of Crimea and other human rights abuses by Russian state forces, but you can't even resist sharing some copaganda in the anti-police circle jerk thread, because it "shows a stark contrast between American cops and foreign cops"...
I guess I made the mistake of not posting statistics, since I was simply generalizing that the number of bad US cops is higher than in other countries.
According to The Guardian, 200 people died in Russian police custody in 2015 "Of the 197, just four were reportedly killed by police officers."
Also according to a Guardian study there was "a final tally of 1,134 deaths at the hands of (U.S.) law enforcement officers (in 2015)".
That seems like a significant difference, no?
As others know by now, I don't buy into the establishment's narrative that we're supposed to hate on anything about Russia because we desparately need an enemy to justify our huge military expenditures. Sure, let's criticize them where appropriate, but let's not make believe things either.
Of course, I'm open to any other evidence you may have from sources other than The Guardian comparing US police killings to Russia police killings.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (03/10/19 04:43 PM)
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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shivas.wisdom said: So the sharp contrast between American cops and foreign cops, that you felt was revealed by the video of Russian police giving women flowers, is that more people die while in police custody in the USA than do in Russia?
I said there is a stark contrast between American cops and foreign cops, and I posted a video to show an example of that, but you're absolutely correct that the video doesn't prove anything. Hence, my next post was about police statistics, which are far more relevant.
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shivas.wisdom said: I would like to point out that you are comparing the number of people who died while in police custody in Russia, to the number of people who died at the hands of police in the USA. I'm sure you will appreciate that 'deaths in police custody' and 'police killings' are two different statistics; is this an appropriate comparison to make?
Russian police are trained not to kill, and the number of killings by Russian police is extremely low, as it is in other European countries. I challenge you to find ANY evidence of police shootings in Russia, which is something the Western media would love to print any chance they got. You probably won't find much outside of the Caucasus region (Chechnya, etc).
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shivas.wisdom said: I tried to find statistics on Russian police killings, but unfortunately all I find are news reports on a serial killer cop - no statistics. The website that the Guardian got its data from, appears to be poorly maintained and doesn't provide any statistics on police killings either. Perhaps there is more information out there available for those who can read Russian.
Like I said, there's so few police killings in Russia that you probably won't find much of anything (prove me wrong).
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shivas.wisdom said: Instead, let's see if we can find the numbers on US deaths in custody. According to this Vice article, 4309 people were reported to have died in 2012 (last year data available) . For an extra comparison, I am including data for England and Wales, which is listed as a 10 year high with 23 deaths in 2018, and 14 in 2015.
For Russia I will use the 197 figure - not four - because the website source states it will rely solely on official and publicly available statistics for its reporting, and I don't trust police to investigate and clear themselves; but also because my other two numbers don't differentiate between cause of death. Everything from suicide to murder is included. One would assume that a more inhumane prison system would see more death across the board anyways, so I feel it's a good metric.
What follows is amateur statistic analysis. Feel free to criticize.
- Russia: population 144.5 mil, incarceration rate 385/100,000, deaths in custody 197
- USA: 325.7, 655, 4309
- England and Wales: 57.9, 139, 23/14
The US has 2.2x the population of Russia, with an incarceration rate 1.7x higher. England and Wales has 0.4x the population of Russia, with an incarceration rate 0.4x lower.
So attempting to compare the number of deaths in custody, Russias 197 deaths would equal 737 in the USA ([197*2.2]*1.7) and 32 in England and Wales ([197*0.4]*0.4).
Comparing those numbers to the numbers of the respective countries, we find that deaths in custody happen at nearly 6x the rate in the USA when compared to Russia; but we also see that Russia has 1.4x (2018 numbers) to 2.3x (2015) the rate of custody deaths when compared to England and Wales.
Rather than displaying a "stark contrast" between American and foreign cops, I see a spectrum of police brutality; with Russia still seemingly using more violence than necessary when compared to countries that aren't the USA. Being better than one of the worst offenders isn't exactly an accomplishment.
Even more so when we consider the Russian numbers are self-reported, and list more than half as dieing from a "sudden deterioration in health conditions (104 people), usually described by unknown circumstances or a stopping of the heart." I don't know about you, but that strikes me as suspicious. I don't have enough faith in any law enforcement agency to faithfully report their human rights violations.
If you count 197 deaths in Russian police custody as deaths by police, and 4,309 deaths in US police custody as deaths by police for the same reasons, then the United States has not 20% more, not 50% more, but 600% more police related deaths than Russia does.
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shivas.wisdom said: Personally, I don't need to defend one shitty incarceral state to attack a different incarceral state, and your decision to use Russia - a country still in the top 20 for incarceration rate - a country with a police force that, as my initial response to you details, engages in campaigns of kidnapping and torture of political dissidents - and a country you frequently defend on this forum - as your example of a good police force... is why I initially claimed you to be a Russian apologist.
Russia doesn't kidnap political dissidents unless they are suspected of something worse, like terrorism, in which case they get arrested. And as we previously discussed we have a higher incarceration rate, we have a death penalty, we have longer sentences for similar crimes, and other things that are worse as I previously listed (Russia, of course, also has it's own negatives).
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shivas.wisdom said: I provided a lot of criticism regarding Russian police and their treatment of anarchists and antifascists in response to your attempt to portray Russian police as a benevolent force. You ignored that to continue to defend your establishment, and respective narrative of choice.
Sure, let's talk about that. I don't have time tonight to watch the 30 minute video, so I'll skip to the first link you provided. It says 11 people were arrested, 10 of whom were released within a day, except one person charged with attempting to set up an improvised explosive device on a gas pipeline.
I realize western media tends to criticize Russia for arresting criminals as long as they're opposed to Putin, but we wouldn't stand for that here either.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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shivas.wisdom said: In my opinion, I look at the numbers above and yes, I see that the USA has 600% more deaths in custody, when compared to Russia, but I also see that Russia has 230% more deaths in custody when compared to England and Wales in 2015. Sure, it's only 230% - the USA is 600%! - but just because something is better than the worst, doesn't make it necessarily good.
If I wanted to display a "stark difference", I would probably have used one of the Nordic models.
I agree - no system is perfect, and the Nordic models certainly are one of the better examples. But six times the death rate is significant, and I think you're ignoring the very important point that the death rate from arrests in Russia is extraordinarily low in comparison to that of the US; you probably can't even find examples of Russian police shootings outside the Caucuses, though the western media would love to print that kind of thing.
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shivas.wisdom said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Russia doesn't kidnap political dissidents unless they are suspected of something worse, like terrorism, in which case they get arrested.
Well, all the information regarding the illegal kidnappings and torture of anarchists that I provided suggests differently.
But let me make sure I have this straight: are you claiming that the Russian state, unlike pretty much every other significant global power, has never and will never use false charges of terrorism to harass political dissidents?
For the record, the police force we are talking about, with regards to tortured anarchists, is the FSB - the ideological successor of the KGB. Both organizations are known for their role in suppressing internal dissent.
No, I didn't say they "have never and will never" use false charges. Nor do I disagree Russia wants to suppress internal dissent. But Russia has a pretty good constitution, and people who dislike the current system have a right to protest, to write negative articles against the system, and to use the voting booth for change; they shouldn't resort to violence.
I've posted many times how Russian dissenters can and do protest to their heart's content in Russia. What they can't do is disrupt other events to get their message out. Which they do all the time, because it gets them arrested and makes for good propaganda so foreigners see it and think "see, they're not allowed to protest in Russia" which is easily proven false.
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shivas.wisdom said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Sure, let's talk about that. I don't have time tonight to watch the 30 minute video, so I'll skip to the first link you provided. It says 11 people were arrested, 10 of whom were released within a day, except one person charged with attempting to set up an improvised explosive device on a gas pipeline.
And once again, this is why I consider your posts to be an example of Russian apologism, because I can't see any other reason for why you would omit this part from your summary: "After brutally torturing them over the following 24 hours in order to force them to agree to incriminating statements, they released 11 of them. The twelfth arrestee, Azat Miftakhov, temporarily disappeared within the legal system while the FSB continued torturing him and refusing his lawyer access to him."
Why are you so blatantly uncritical of the Russian state?
I certainly don't support electric shock to get information; and that deserves to be criticized. But people aren't killed at the same rate as in the US, and my point is that other countries are better than we are. No, Russia is not perfect by a long shot.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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MagicMush123 said: So if you're intention was to show the differences between American vs foreign cops, American being the worst offenders, why didn't you compare best to worst? Why did you choose to compare the worst vs a slightly better offender?
As shivas.wisdom explained above, US cops commit at least six time as many murders as Russian cops, while Russian cops only commit 1.4x the number of England and Wales, which is practically the same amount (at least compared to the US). The point (again) being that the US is FAR worse than other countries.
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MagicMush123 said: You harp about sticking to the facts and not "make believing" and here you are suggesting that Russians are purposely martyring themselves by protesting out of line in the hopes of getting arrested (for they can be tortured?), to aid American anti Russian propaganda? Sure, thats a not a stretch at all 
It's not a stretch at all. If you think people don't want the attention of being arrested and if you think they are truly afraid of being tortured, then why would they protest in unsanctioned locations? You tell us a better reason than the one I provided.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Forget the video, I should have posted one from another country. Everything else still stands - that US police kill far more people than other countries.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Quote:
shivas.wisdom said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Forget the video, I should have posted one from another country. Everything else still stands - that US police kill far more people than other countries.
I think you will find that most countries have an extraordinarily low death rate when compared to the USA. Once again, being better than one of the worst doesn't make you good. We should not be holding up the Russian police force as a model worthy of praise simply because they kill less people than the US system.
Agreed, but as you indicated above Russia is in the same general ballpark of European cops (x1.4).
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shivas.wisdom said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: No, I didn't say they "have never and will never" use false charges. Nor do I disagree Russia wants to suppress internal dissent. But Russia has a pretty good constitution, and people who dislike the current system have a right to protest, to write negative articles against the system, and to use the voting booth for change; they shouldn't resort to violence.
Are you suggesting that claims of violence levied by the FSB against the arrested anarchists are true? Because that's the only way you can legitimize these arrests.
I don't know, but why would they just make up charges?
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shivas.wisdom said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: I certainly don't support electric shock to get information; and that deserves to be criticized. But people aren't killed at the same rate as in the US, and my point is that other countries are better than we are. No, Russia is not perfect by a long shot.
Yes, people in the USA are killed by the police at an extreme rate paralleled by few other countries. I hope you understand that posting a video of pro-police propaganda from Russia was not the way to effectively communicate this point.
I agree the video proves nothing, as I stated above.
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shivas.wisdom said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: It's not a stretch at all. If you think people don't want the attention of being arrested and if you think they are truly afraid of being tortured, then why would they protest in unsanctioned locations? You tell us a better reason than the one I provided.
A government is illegally arresting and torturing people, and a government is also attempting to dictate what are legitimate forms of protest - and the best reason you can think up for why people might fight against this, is that they want attention?
But they AREN'T illegally arresting people - people are knowingly protesting in unsanctioned locations, where they know they'll get arrested. Those who protest in sanctioned areas get very little attention.
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shivas.wisdom said: You don't think people might fight against an injust system simply because it is injust?
Of course people should protest against an injust system. And they're allowed to do that. But not in undesignated areas.
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shivas.wisdom said: For example, in the wake of the Québec student protests of 2012 a new law was passed that made it illegal to wear masks during a political demonstration, and forced marches to submit a planned route to police. People intentionally broke the law and were arrested over and over again - not for the attention - but because these laws were illegitimate overreach by our government.
I'd argue it's for the attention. There are other ways to protest a system without getting a criminal record in the process. But some people will do what gets their cause the most attention.
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shivas.wisdom said: Last year saw most of the law finally repealed - but it's not over yet. We'll be back out on the streets this Saturday actually. Taking advantage of St Pats chaos to hold our annual "illegal" anti-police march in Montréal. Because the idea of asking the police for permission to protest is asinine.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-court-of-appeal-voids-bylaw-forcing-protesters-to-provide-route-to-police-1.4560124
We have similar laws in the US to what they have in Russia regarding protests and demonstrations. This is from the ACLU website:
...certain types of events require permits. For example: - A march or parade that does not stay on the sidewalk, and other events that require blocking traffic or street closure; - A large rally requiring the use of sound amplifying devices; or - A rally at certain designated parks or plazas. Many permit procedures require that the application be filed several weeks in advance of the event.
You might disagree with the law, but it is the law.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: Enlil]
#25874843 - 03/14/19 10:10 PM (4 years, 10 months ago) |
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Enlil said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: US cops commit at least six time as many murders as Russian cops,
And you get this from the prison death rate? That's ridiculous. The vast majority of deaths in prison are from illness. Deaths by homicide in prison are not common at all. Of those deaths, most are at the hands of other prisoners.
What is your source for the claim that cops in the U.S. commit 6 times as many murders as Russian cops?
We know, this was discussed in the Guardian article above.
My source is shivas.wisdom's post. Take it up with him if you don't like it.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Quote:
shivas.wisdom said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Agreed, but as you indicated above Russia is in the same general ballpark of European cops (x1.4).
To be fair, that number comes from comparing England and Wales highest number of deaths in custody in a decade (2018) with the only year we have information from Russia (2015) - I included this number for increased perspective. When we compare 2015 numbers directly, Russia has 2.3x the rate - a not insignificant number. Why are you interested in portraying Russian police in as benevolent of a light as possible?
I sense the opposite. Why are you so interested in portraying Russian police in as bad a light as possible when they're significantly better than those in the US?
Whatever, I think we can at least agree on the very crude numbers - roughly 6x better than US cops, and 1.4x - 2.3x worse than British cops. 
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shivas.wisdom said: I also want to repeat that our only source of information regarding Russian custody deaths rates is this website, which doesn't inspire enough confidence in me to believe we can make any real conclusions about the reality of the Russian policing system.
And I want to repeat that I've asked anyone for examples of Russian cops shooting people to death; thus far it's been surprisingly quiet.
I read your story about governments keeping anarchists down. Is it not true that some anarchists advocate violence as being necessary to rid the world of exploitation? If it weren't true, then I don't think Governments would really care.
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shivas.wisdom said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: I'd argue it's (intentionally breaking the law) for the attention. There are other ways to protest a system without getting a criminal record in the process. But some people will do what gets their cause the most attention.
If it's such an effective attention getter, how much have you heard about the tortured anarchists and those arrested protesting the situation?
I've heard more about those arrested than I ever have about the ones who protest in permitted areas. 
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shivas.wisdom said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
You might disagree with the law, but it is the law.
Sure, and I'm saying that we have managed to get the law partially repealed by willfully violating it. Breaking the law can be effective protest.
I hear you, but breaking the law can get you in trouble, and no one should be surprised if breaking the law gets them arrested.
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shivas.wisdom said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: My source is shivas.wisdom's post. Take it up with him if you don't like it.
Deaths is custody is not the same thing as police murders.
And I agreed. But you haven't been able to show evidence of murders by police in Russia thus far (I'm sure there are a few instances), and I suspect the ratio of police murders by US police is much higher than your estimate or else we'd hear a lot more about Russian police killings (which western journalists would LOVE to write about).
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Quote:
shivas.wisdom said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: And I want to repeat that I've asked anyone for examples of Russian cops shooting people to death; thus far it's been surprisingly quiet.
I previously stated that I could find no information on police killings in Russia beyond rusebola.com. Any searches related to "Russia police murders" only brings up a slew of articles related to a serial killer Russian cop.
Still, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. I believe the onus is on you to provide some data regarding police murders in Russia, if you wish to make the claim that Russian police rarely commit murder.
This article has a pretty good overview of US police shootings vs other countries, showing your estimates on the killings by Enland police are FAR, FAR too high. It states that "if we look at the United Kingdom, 1 person was killed by police in 2014 and 0 in 2013. English police reportedly fired guns a total of three times in all of 2013, with zero reported fatalities. From 2010 through 2014, there were four fatal police shootings in England." I suspected these kind of numbers, but didn't find them until now. Regular Russian police don't carry guns, except to emergency situations, so it's very likely their numbers are very low as well, especially considering there are so few reports of Russian police shootings.
Wikipedia shows similar numbers.
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shivas.wisdom said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: I read your story about governments keeping anarchists down. Is it not true that some anarchists advocate violence as being necessary to rid the world of exploitation? If it weren't true, then I don't think Governments would really care.
Yes, a variety of opinions are held by different anarchists; including some that openly advocate for violence as being necessary to rid the world of exploitation.
Do you think that is sufficient reason for mass arrests of anyone tangentially related to anarchist communities, based on manufactured conspiracy and terrorism charges?
No, but I do believe police have a right to investigate those intending to use violence.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: I've heard more about those arrested than I ever have about the ones who protest in permitted areas. 
Could you please answer more specifically: outside of our conversations on the subject, how much have you heard about the tortured anarchists and those arrested protesting the situation?
I haven't, but the ones who break the law are the ones you're hearing about.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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shivas.wisdom said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: This article has a pretty good overview of US police shootings vs other countries, showing your estimates on the killings by Enland police are FAR, FAR too high. It states that "if we look at the United Kingdom, 1 person was killed by police in 2014 and 0 in 2013. English police reportedly fired guns a total of three times in all of 2013, with zero reported fatalities. From 2010 through 2014, there were four fatal police shootings in England." I suspected these kind of numbers, but didn't find them until now. Regular Russian police don't carry guns, except to emergency situations, so it's very likely their numbers are very low as well, especially considering there are so few reports of Russian police shootings.
Wikipedia shows similar numbers.
Remember, I could only find data for "deaths in custody" for Russia, so this was also the figure I used for the UK and USA - not "police murders".
I understand that the data is hard to find. But common sense tells me that police who don't carry guns commit fewer killings.
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shivas.wisdom said: Furthermore, it doesn't appear that you have provided any data on police killings in Russia either, so your claim that Russian police rarely commit murder is unsubstantiated.
I explained why I believe it's lower. I can't say it is with 100% certainty, but the fact that Russian police don't usually carry guns plus the fact that there are almost no stories of police killings in Russia leads me to guess it is lower usign common sense.
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shivas.wisdom said: It's odd that you claim these protesters are intentionally getting arrested because it makes for attention getting propaganda in the west, when you admit you have heard absolutely nothing about it through western media. Sounds like more make believe.
YOU heard about the one getting intentionally arrested, as I already noted above.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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shivas.wisdom said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: I understand that the data is hard to find. But common sense tells me that police who don't carry guns commit fewer killings.
I'm sure you'll appreciate that "police who don't carry guns commit fewer killings" is a different claim from your earlier one that "the number of killings by Russian police is extremely low".
Agreed, it's not the same. I'll give anyone 5 shrooms if they can show the number of people killed by Russian police each year. I'll bet it's less than 5/yr outside the Caucuses and less than 10/yr in total, as there are so few articles about Russian cop killings.
I did find this article: "...in all the 23 years of post-Soviet Russian history not a single peaceful OR violent protestor has ever been shot at... I bring to the reader’s attention – in the event it was overlooked – that the articles in which the criticism of the amendments to the Russian law appeared were published in the RUSSIAN and Russian-language daily, Nezavismaya gazeta, published in ‘Putin’s fascist Russia’" showing that you're allowed to be critical of the Russian Government in Russia.
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shivas.wisdom said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: YOU heard about the one getting intentionally arrested, as I already noted above.
It's not a strong position in a debate to be trying to make believe about my personal experience. The anarchist torture cases that I have heard about, and that I have spoken about here, were not precipitated by people going to protest in "undesignated protest areas" (a nebulous term you have neglected to define further) - they were people simply going about their lives.
Actually I defined a "designated protest area" above and noted that Russia has similar laws. You can protest all you want in Russia if you get a permit and don't disrupt other events.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (03/16/19 12:45 PM)
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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shivas.wisdom said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Agreed, it's not the same. I'll give anyone 5 shrooms if they can show the number of people killed by Russian police each year. I'll bet it's less than 5/yr outside the Caucuses and less than 10/yr in total, as there are so few articles about Russian cop killings.
I think you should stop trying to shift the burden of proof. If you want to claim Russia has less than 10 police murders a year, you have to provide proof. We don't make believe in the politics forum.
I didn't state it as a fact, I think I was clear that this was my guess, and I offered 5 shrooms to anyone who could either prove OR disprove it. It should be easier to disprove than to prove, as you only need to find a handful of examples of police shootings to disprove it.
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shivas.wisdom said: Although no source is provided, that article appears to support the claim that Russian police rarely shoot people if we assume it to be true.
It'd be an easy statement do disprove - you'd only need to find one example of police shooting at a protest. Sure, it's possible people could be killed by other means.
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shivas.wisdom said: No protester getting shot in 23 years is not the equivalent to no police murder in 23 years.
I understand, and I wasn't trying to say that no police shootings at protests means no police shootings anywhere. It was just another interesting data point.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: MagicMush123] 2
#26704077 - 05/29/20 09:46 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Cops arrest a CNN reporter... because he was black? Eventually the whole crew got arrested.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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