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Offlineqman
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Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
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Re: The Muslim Invasion of Europe [Re: LobsterSauce]
    #25454419 - 09/12/18 09:19 AM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

LobsterSauce said:
Your healthcare system is more barbaric than any immigrants you think to be of such nature.




Who claimed immigrants were "barbaric"?  :rolleyes:

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Offlineqman
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Registered: 12/06/06
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Re: The Muslim Invasion of Europe [Re: MycoMinded]
    #25454425 - 09/12/18 09:21 AM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

MycoMinded said:
Quote:

meltdowner said:

Illegal immigration is a HUGE problem.  One of the biggest this country has ever faced.  Its ruining lives, ruining our health inssurance plans, ruining neighborhoods, ruining our savings and ruining the future for millions upon millions of citizens of the USA.  Illegal immigrants have been the cause of an ENORMOUS amount of problems in the last 70years.

At first it wasnt a big deal, now.. Its completely out of control.




I'd be real interested to hear how illegal immigration is ruining health insurance plans and our savings.




Who pays for millions of broke third world illegals health care in the US?  :popcorn:

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InvisibleTits on a bull
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Posts: 569
Re: The Muslim Invasion of Europe [Re: meltdowner]
    #25454446 - 09/12/18 09:32 AM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

meltdowner said:
Quote:

koods said:
Why do you equate illegal immigration with the US trying to fix the world? The US isn’t accepting all the worlds poor.

We have immigration laws. We have a fairly well defended southern border. The fact is, if people want to get in, they will. It’s just stupid to spend ridiculous amounts of money only to see diminishing returns.

The fact is that illegal immigration may be a significant issue, but it isn’t a significant problem. By that, I mean it is an issue that has significant effects on the country, but many of these effects are positive. Without a doubt, our economy would be hurt a lot more by deporting all the illegals than leaving the situation as is. I know you don’t believe that, but your judgement is clouded by your racism.



"The fact is"... You are lying.

Illegal immigration is a HUGE problem.  One of the biggest this country has ever faced.  Its ruining lives, ruining our health inssurance plans, ruining neighborhoods, ruining our savings and ruining the future for millions upon millions of citizens of the USA.  Illegal immigrants have been the cause of an ENORMOUS amount of problems in the last 70years.

At first it wasnt a big deal, now.. Its completely out of control.



You forgot about the fact that heroine now comes from Mexico and south American countries. Not from the middle east. Thus the rise in the opium epidemic! !


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Stop talking about being enlighten. Crybabies, bitches, and people worried about ratings can never reach enlightenment!  NEVER!

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InvisibleTits on a bull
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Posts: 569
Re: The Muslim Invasion of Europe [Re: ReposadoXochipilli]
    #25454457 - 09/12/18 09:38 AM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

ReposadoXochipilli said:
qman, no i think border policies are there to project authority and protect the interests of the nations. i am not proposing free borders. i was only addressing the whack a mole perspective of trying to keep disenfranchised out vs permanently solving the issue by removing the motivation in the first place. 

people do persevere and attempt to succeed in their native lands but just as the government in mexico has been overrun by cartels the other central american countires have fared even worse.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/future-development/2018/06/26/violence-drives-immigration-from-central-america/

"MSF surveyed people in Mexico from Northern Triangle countries in 2015. Thirty-nine percent of respondents cite attacks or threats to themselves or family as the reason for leaving. More than 40 percent had a relative who was killed in the past two years. Thirty-one percent knew someone who was kidnapped; 17 percent knew someone who disappeared. Michael Clemens examines the relative strength of violence and economics driving unaccompanied minors from the Northern Triangle into the U.S.: Controlling for economic factors, a sustained increase of one homicide per year in an area caused approximately 0.9 additional apprehensions of unaccompanied minors per year in the U.S. from that area.

Former Secretary of State Rex Tillerson argued that U.S. demand for drugs drives violence and lawlessness in Northern Triangle countries. In a 2017 speech, then Secretary of Homeland Security John Kelly argued, “The reason for the drug flow is due to our drug demand and we do almost nothing about it.” Arms trafficked from the U.S. also contribute to the violence. Almost half of unregistered weapons seized in Honduras came from the U.S. The region also has stockpiles of weapons from civil conflict during the Cold War, many provided by the U.S. and Soviet Union.

MEXICO IS NOT A SAFE HAVEN"

doesn't sounds super optimistic to try and settle down and build a life. the us doesn't need to "fix" the world but you can't deny the effect of the USA's consumption has had on localized cultures across the globe.

the main point i was trying to make is these people are never going to stop, unless we fix the root of the problem.



Your right. We need to go in and leave a trail of bloody boot prints as we wipe out the cartels. Look up what the avocado farmers did. Bad ass farmers not like these tail between the legs dogs that are coming over. No one's going to bring up how all these south American countries are trying to prevent other people from coming into their countries.  They don't want them for a good reason . Why the fuck would we?


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Stop talking about being enlighten. Crybabies, bitches, and people worried about ratings can never reach enlightenment!  NEVER!

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The Muslim Invasion of Europe [Re: qman] * 1
    #25454479 - 09/12/18 09:46 AM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Who pays for millions of broke third world illegals health care in the US?  :popcorn:



Immigrants are billed for any care they receive.  And they can buy health insurance just like the rest of us.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Offlineqman
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Re: The Muslim Invasion of Europe [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25454504 - 09/12/18 09:59 AM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

qman said:
Who pays for millions of broke third world illegals health care in the US?  :popcorn:



Immigrants are billed for any care they receive.  And they can buy health insurance just like the rest of us.




That's wonderful, broke third world immigrants don't pay their health care bills or buy health care insurance.

How's the weather in theoretical land today?

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OfflineMycoMinded
Registered: 06/26/18
Posts: 245
Loc: NC Flag
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
Re: The Muslim Invasion of Europe [Re: qman] * 2
    #25454527 - 09/12/18 10:11 AM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

MycoMinded said:
Quote:

meltdowner said:

Illegal immigration is a HUGE problem.  One of the biggest this country has ever faced.  Its ruining lives, ruining our health inssurance plans, ruining neighborhoods, ruining our savings and ruining the future for millions upon millions of citizens of the USA.  Illegal immigrants have been the cause of an ENORMOUS amount of problems in the last 70years.

At first it wasnt a big deal, now.. Its completely out of control.




I'd be real interested to hear how illegal immigration is ruining health insurance plans and our savings.




Who pays for millions of broke third world illegals health care in the US?  :popcorn:




As Falcon said, they get billed. They may have employer provided or school sponsored insurance, but they aren't eligible for ACA coverage.
If they don't pay the hospital writes it off as bad debt. I don't care to research it but I'm comfortable believing the the illegal immigrant bad debt at hospitals is an insignificant percentage of the overall hospital bad debt nationally. There just aren't that many illegal immigrants compared to indigent uninsured citizens that rely solely on emergency room treatment. Also, hospitals are only on the hook to stabilize an uninsured patient and send them on their way. I don't think that even meets the definition of "health care".

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Offlineqman
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Re: The Muslim Invasion of Europe [Re: MycoMinded]
    #25454609 - 09/12/18 10:55 AM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

MycoMinded said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

MycoMinded said:
Quote:

meltdowner said:

Illegal immigration is a HUGE problem.  One of the biggest this country has ever faced.  Its ruining lives, ruining our health inssurance plans, ruining neighborhoods, ruining our savings and ruining the future for millions upon millions of citizens of the USA.  Illegal immigrants have been the cause of an ENORMOUS amount of problems in the last 70years.

At first it wasnt a big deal, now.. Its completely out of control.




I'd be real interested to hear how illegal immigration is ruining health insurance plans and our savings.




Who pays for millions of broke third world illegals health care in the US?  :popcorn:




As Falcon said, they get billed. They may have employer provided or school sponsored insurance, but they aren't eligible for ACA coverage.
If they don't pay the hospital writes it off as bad debt. I don't care to research it but I'm comfortable believing the the illegal immigrant bad debt at hospitals is an insignificant percentage of the overall hospital bad debt nationally. There just aren't that many illegal immigrants compared to indigent uninsured citizens that rely solely on emergency room treatment. Also, hospitals are only on the hook to stabilize an uninsured patient and send them on their way. I don't think that even meets the definition of "health care".




If they're working illegally, how in the world would they have an employee based health care plan?  That's pure fantasy land.

The unpaid medical bills land on the US citizen that does use health care. There's nothing free about spending money on illegals health care.

Why are you comparing uninsured US citizens with illegals?  That makes zero sense.

Why are you trying to minimize the expense of their health care?  It's not insignificant, it hurts all US citizens.

And yes, illegals often get the same health treatment as anybody else. I have many family members and friends that are health care professionals.

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Offlinechristopera
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Re: The Muslim Invasion of Europe [Re: qman] * 2
    #25454663 - 09/12/18 11:16 AM (5 years, 6 months ago)

It sure would be great if we had a system whereby we could make them pay wouldn't it? Since they are already here and racking up expenses.

Maybe we could like tax them or something.


--------------------
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I’m sorry it had to be me.

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Offlineqman
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Re: The Muslim Invasion of Europe [Re: christopera]
    #25454781 - 09/12/18 12:08 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

christopera said:
It sure would be great if we had a system whereby we could make them pay wouldn't it? Since they are already here and racking up expenses.

Maybe we could like tax them or something.




Well, the obvious solution in my opinion is not to have them here in the first place since it's ILLEGAL.

If we were to go with your thesis, I would mandate that their ILLEGAL employers would be responsible for 100% of their medical expenses. 

Something tells me they would think about hiring US citizens at that point.  :rofl2:

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OfflineMycoMinded
Registered: 06/26/18
Posts: 245
Loc: NC Flag
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
Re: The Muslim Invasion of Europe [Re: qman] * 1
    #25454803 - 09/12/18 12:19 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

MycoMinded said:
Quote:

MycoMinded said:
Quote:

meltdowner said:

Illegal immigration is a HUGE problem.  One of the biggest this country has ever faced.  Its ruining lives, ruining our health inssurance plans, ruining neighborhoods, ruining our savings and ruining the future for millions upon millions of citizens of the USA.  Illegal immigrants have been the cause of an ENORMOUS amount of problems in the last 70years.

At first it wasnt a big deal, now.. Its completely out of control.




I'd be real interested to hear how illegal immigration is ruining health insurance plans and our savings.




qman: Who do you think pays for this?

As Falcon said, they get billed. They may have employer provided or school sponsored insurance, but they aren't eligible for ACA coverage.
If they don't pay the hospital writes it off as bad debt. I don't care to research it but I'm comfortable believing the the illegal immigrant bad debt at hospitals is an insignificant percentage of the overall hospital bad debt nationally. There just aren't that many illegal immigrants compared to indigent uninsured citizens that rely solely on emergency room treatment. Also, hospitals are only on the hook to stabilize an uninsured patient and send them on their way. I don't think that even meets the definition of "health care".




If they're working illegally, how in the world would they have an employee based health care plan?  That's pure fantasy land.

The unpaid medical bills land on the US citizen that does use health care. There's nothing free about spending money on illegals health care.

Why are you comparing uninsured US citizens with illegals?  That makes zero sense.

Why are you trying to minimize the expense of their health care?  It's not insignificant, it hurts all US citizens.

And yes, illegals often get the same health treatment as anybody else. I have many family members and friends that are health care professionals.




I see, so employers can hire them illegally, but can't cover their insurance because it would be illegal. Makes perfect sense.
I never said it was free, I said it was insignificant in comparison to other unpaid bills.
Total unpaid medical bills for US citizens = $85B (per Kaiser foundation https://www.kff.org/uninsured/report/uncompensated-care-for-the-uninsured-in-2013-a-detailed-examination/
Medical care for illegal immigrants = $4.3B (per lifezette, until recently owned by Laura Ingraham so that number is likely inflated) https://www.lifezette.com/2016/11/what-illegal-immigrants-cost-our-health-care-system/
So illegals account for about 5% of unpaid medical costs. Maybe not totally insignificant, but certainly FAR down the list of problems with our healthcare system.

No, it makes no sense at all to compare the cost of caring for uninsured citizens to uninsured illegal aliens since unpaid bills resulting from citizens would not hurt all US citizens. We all know only the costs resulting from illegals are counted. 

I don't believe that anyone regardless of immigration status or citizenship with no ability to pay is going to get the same level of treatment as someone with decent insurance. Not for a second, don't care who said it.

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Offlinekoods
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Re: The Muslim Invasion of Europe [Re: MycoMinded] * 1
    #25454939 - 09/12/18 01:17 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

If they are part of an employee based medical plan, how is that costing American consumers and taxpayers? Do employee health plans operate at a loss?

qman, you make zero sense and don’t have a clue about economics.


--------------------
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OfflineHappinessfeeling
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Re: The Muslim Invasion of Europe [Re: koods]
    #25454967 - 09/12/18 01:27 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Why don't you mention here the buddhist-lead muslim slaughtering which recently has been going on in Southeast Asia?


--------------------
I am Jah Jesus Christ Snoop Doggy Dogg Burning Ganja Bush Lord Shiva King Death Row Kambodia Allah Mahavishnu Masta Killa King Wu-Tang Lord Gautauma Buddha Om Krishna.
My name is Nishith Vijay a.k.a. HappinessFeeling.

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Offlineqman
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Re: The Muslim Invasion of Europe [Re: koods]
    #25454970 - 09/12/18 01:29 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
If they are part of an employee based medical plan, how is that costing American consumers and taxpayers? Do employee health plans operate at a loss?

qman, you make zero sense and don’t have a clue about economics.




So insurance rates stay the same when illegals rack up billions of health care expenses?  No, insurance rates go higher.

The more the insurance rates go higher, the more the employees are ultimately contributing to the plan.

Do you understand how the insurance industry works?  It's either the taxpayer or insurance companies that pass it on to the consumer which makes up the difference.

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Offlineqman
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Re: The Muslim Invasion of Europe [Re: qman]
    #25454992 - 09/12/18 01:38 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2018/02/26/how-american-citizens-finance-health-care-for-undocumented-immigrants/#b73e77012c47

"All told, Americans cross-subsidize health care for unauthorized immigrants to the tune of $18.5 billion"

"another $3 (billion) bankrolled though 'cost shifting" higher payments by insured patients to cover hospital uncompensated care losses"

Yeah, no clue about basic economics. :facepalm:

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OfflineMycoMinded
Registered: 06/26/18
Posts: 245
Loc: NC Flag
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
Re: The Muslim Invasion of Europe [Re: qman]
    #25455263 - 09/12/18 03:42 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

I saw that Forbes article earlier after a quick search. I didn't give it any credence except for the part where he says 86% of illegal immigrants have employer-provided health coverage. We find that comforting here in fantasy land.

Cross-subsidizing? There's a term you won't find in a GAAP manual.
That guy is really reaching. He's counting the cost of free community clinics AND the cost of charity work done by doctors AND "hospital charity care/bad debts". Lumping those two wildly different categories together seems highly unusual, and suspect. He's also counting $.9B in "implicit tax subsidies" and $5.7B in employer tax exclusions.

Employers get a tax exclusion for providing employees with health coverage. When they provide that health coverage to an illegal alien, he's going to take the cost of that tax exclusion, and add it to the cost of treating other uninsured illegal aliens? I'm calling BS on that convoluted accounting logic.

Using his numbers: $18.5B annual cost of treating 3.9M unauthorized uninsured immigrants in the US = $4,743 per person. That 3.9M number isn't counting people seeking treatment, that's all uninsured illegal immigrants. That amount does not sound the least bit likely. Since hospitals charge an uninsured patient considerably more for the same procedure than they would an insured patient maybe it is likely, but it's not credible.

Lastly, he says all uninsured in the US generated $1,257 in uncompensated cost. Yet specifically for illegal immigrants using his costs and counts we get $4,743 per uninsured. How do we get there? By using his faulty logic.

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Offlinekoods
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Re: The Muslim Invasion of Europe [Re: qman] * 1
    #25455287 - 09/12/18 03:55 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

koods said:
If they are part of an employee based medical plan, how is that costing American consumers and taxpayers? Do employee health plans operate at a loss?

qman, you make zero sense and don’t have a clue about economics.




So insurance rates stay the same when illegals rack up billions of health care expenses?  No, insurance rates go higher.

The more the insurance rates go higher, the more the employees are ultimately contributing to the plan.

Do you understand how the insurance industry works?  It's either the taxpayer or insurance companies that pass it on to the consumer which makes up the difference.




Why would an insured illegal cost more than an insured not illegal? You’re not making any sense. Illegals are much younger than the general population and would use much less health care than the average person:


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: The Muslim Invasion of Europe [Re: koods] * 1
    #25455306 - 09/12/18 04:03 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Its irrelevant because our dumbass capitalist healthcare system is the reason why we pay so much for healthcare.


We could switch to single payer and give every single illegal deluxe ass healthcare and STILL save tens of billions of dollars.


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InvisibleJHOVA
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Re: The Muslim Invasion of Europe [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25455337 - 09/12/18 04:17 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

qman said:
Who pays for millions of broke third world illegals health care in the US?  :popcorn:



Immigrants are billed for any care they receive.  And they can buy health insurance just like the rest of us.




Medi-cal is subsidized by tax payers. If you look on any paystub you will see desuctions for medicare and social security. That pays for low income or no income tax payers and illegals in some states. anything under $16,000 in CA qualifies for mediCAL.  Illegal kids auto qualify up to 18 for now. Going up from 19 to infinity for all illegals soon. Look up senator ricardo lara of bell gardens and assemblyman Joaquin arambula of Fresno pushing bills to extend eligibility. http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/opinion/the-conversation/sd-unauthorized-immigrants-health-care-california-20180521-htmlstory.html


39 million tax paying US citizens had the luxury of social security fraud thanks to illegal aliens. Will illegal immigration go up or down when you offer welfare?
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/illegal-immigrants-cited-in-theft-of-39-million-social-security-numbers

Taken from their website
Quote:

Do You Qualify for Medi-Cal Benefits?

To see if you qualify based on income, look at the chart below. Income numbers are based on your annual - or yearly - earnings.​




​Family Size ​138% Poverty Level
​1 ​16,395
​2 ​22,108
​2 Adults ​22,108
​3 ​27,821
​4 ​33,534
​5 ​39,248
​6 ​44,961
​7 ​50,688
​8 ​56,429
​9 ​62,169
​10 ​67,910
​11 ​73,651
​12 ​79,392
​Each Additional Person ​Add 5,741

You can also get Medi-Cal if you are:

65 or older
Blind
Disabled
Under 21
Pregnant
In a skilled nursing or intermediate care home
On refugee status for a limited time, depending how long you have been in the United States
A parent or caretaker relative or a child under 21 if:
The child's parent is deceased or doesn't live with the child, or
The child's parent is incapacitated, or
The child's parent is under employed or unemployed

Have been screened for breast and/or cervical cancer (Breast and Cervical Cancer Treatment Program)


If you are enrolled in one of the following programs, you can also get Medi-Cal:

CalFresh
SSI/SSP
CalWorks (AFDC)
Refugee Assistance
Foster Care or Adoption Assistance Program


Contact your local County office for more information or apply on-line at Covered California.




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Offlinekoods
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Re: The Muslim Invasion of Europe [Re: JHOVA] * 1
    #25455362 - 09/12/18 04:29 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

39 million paying into a system they don’t use. What’s your problem ?

Why are conservatives so fucking stupid about economics? This is why red states are like third world countries.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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