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Anonymous #1

Sexless Marriage
    #25436565 - 09/05/18 02:15 AM (7 months, 10 days ago)

I don't know if I'm asking for advice or just venting but here it goes...

Wife has PTSD. I can probably count the number of times we've had sex the past four years on one hand. I feel like I got duped into believing she wanted to work on it, but the wheels just keep spinning. If anything our sex life has gotten worse over time. I knew I was going to be getting into a relationship that took a lot of patience, but she's straight up just not doing anything about it. We're spending all this money on couples therapy and doing weekly intimacy sessions and other activities but she never takes the step outside her comfort zone. Feeling utterly fucking trapped between staying with my best friend and living a non-celibate life. It's miserable. I always thought cheaters were dirt bags, but it's becoming a fantasy now.


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InvisiblemndfreezeM
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Re: Sexless Marriage [Re: Anonymous #1] * 2
    #25436599 - 09/05/18 02:48 AM (7 months, 10 days ago)

If you are still in therapy you need to bring this stuff up at therapy.  You need to be honest with both her and the therapist about your levels of frustration as well as the fact that you feel like you starting to see a line you don't want to cross.  If you value your marriage then you will want to push on working it until you can't work it any more, but you have to be open to it all and so does she.

That said, you might want to start bringing up alternatives.  I don't know anything about your relationship, or your age, or anything, but some completely sexless marriages get resolved in other ways.  Some couples have a bond strong enough outside the bedroom to be able to let their partners have non-attached "dates" to satisfy urges.  I imagine she wont be happy to hear something like this because who would, but she also has to work to make things better for you both as well.  It is unfair to expect 2 people to stay together with such a major hole in the relationship, and sex is definitely a major part of it.

I'm sorry to hear all this.  I've been in a relationship like that, on both sides actually, and its a terrible place to be regardless.  Please do not cheat however.  Trust me when I say it will NOT be worth it, no matter how much you 'feel' like it would be, or that you wouldn't get caught, you WILL feel guilty about it, even if it only start the process and never go through with it, and the violation of trust could and most likely will end your marriage.

If you have kids you need to keep them in mind as well.  Don't stay miserable for them, but definitely do not rush into any sort of major decision because they will not understand no matter how much you explain it and you think they do, and they will be affected.

4 years is a long time. I think you would be in your right to bring up all this stuff and while  you need to definitely be understanding of your wifes position too, she needs to be more understanding of yours.


--------------------
Nothing says love like grannies prolapsed anus!

quote]Urb said:
I know... Its fucked up... Ill fix it minyana..[/quote]


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Offlinechristopera
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Re: Sexless Marriage [Re: mndfreeze]
    #25436909 - 09/05/18 09:34 AM (7 months, 10 days ago)

Quote:

mndfreeze said:
If you are still in therapy you need to bring this stuff up at therapy.  You need to be honest with both her and the therapist about your levels of frustration as well as the fact that you feel like you starting to see a line you don't want to cross.  If you value your marriage then you will want to push on working it until you can't work it any more, but you have to be open to it all and so does she.

That said, you might want to start bringing up alternatives.  I don't know anything about your relationship, or your age, or anything, but some completely sexless marriages get resolved in other ways.  Some couples have a bond strong enough outside the bedroom to be able to let their partners have non-attached "dates" to satisfy urges.  I imagine she wont be happy to hear something like this because who would, but she also has to work to make things better for you both as well.  It is unfair to expect 2 people to stay together with such a major hole in the relationship, and sex is definitely a major part of it.

I'm sorry to hear all this.  I've been in a relationship like that, on both sides actually, and its a terrible place to be regardless.  Please do not cheat however.  Trust me when I say it will NOT be worth it, no matter how much you 'feel' like it would be, or that you wouldn't get caught, you WILL feel guilty about it, even if it only start the process and never go through with it, and the violation of trust could and most likely will end your marriage.

If you have kids you need to keep them in mind as well.  Don't stay miserable for them, but definitely do not rush into any sort of major decision because they will not understand no matter how much you explain it and you think they do, and they will be affected.

4 years is a long time. I think you would be in your right to bring up all this stuff and while  you need to definitely be understanding of your wifes position too, she needs to be more understanding of yours.




That is some seriously sage advice, OP, please take it seriously.

My wife and I have gone through our patches and she has been in and out of therapy and is treated for depression. It hasn't been great for our sex life, the meds have hurt my wifes sex drive, being able to talk about it and work solutions to at least comprise has brought back a lot of the satisfaction that went away for while.

That said, find where your line should be drawn and make that clear to your wife. If she loves you she will respect that.


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A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things

I’m sorry it had to be me.


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Anonymous #1

Re: Sexless Marriage [Re: christopera]
    #25438306 - 09/05/18 08:31 PM (7 months, 10 days ago)

Thanks to both of you. I probably won't actually cheat. I have no intentions of hurting her like that. It's just starting to feel like the only way I'd ever have sex again. I mean, it's not ideal either. I want sex with HER specifically. I'm also incredibly introverted so approved and non-approved dates don't really work for me lol. The efforts I put into meeting a girl have to pay out with an LTR :rofl: But I guess this is the age of tinder so maybe it's not as hard as I think...

Therapist has been out on maternity leave but will be back in a few weeks I think. Might be time for another visit. In fact, I think I might have my wife sit out of this one so I can talk one on one with the therapist without hurting any feelings. The thing is I HAVE brought this all up before... but I don't think she understands the severity of it. Or she finds a way to turn it on her self "Well I'm just a really shitty wife aren't I?" rather than actually doing anything productive with it. Maybe the therapist can mediate a more productive conversation though if I get a chance to really be blunt about my feelings without my wife in the room. But my feeling is my wife will ride the sinking ship until she's been dumped in the water. That's just kind of how she is... hard worker. But not motivated to step outside her comfort zone at all.

I'm 26. No kids fortunately. This is actually an issue that has prevented me from ever wanting kids. Needs conflicts with those you live with is unbelievably exhausting. We do have dogs though... and that complicates things. They are my best friends and leaving her means leaving them. I don't see myself leaving her short term. I'm an introvert and don't really have anyone else. My fear is that I'm going back to school and my marriage may not survive the long haul if I'm surrounded by intelligent and attractive people in my career field and she doesn't plug this leak. That happened when I went on a mission trip this summer. I became unbelievably attracted to a girl I met who is like a third as pretty as my wife. Nothing happened, but the tension is definitely there.

Hope this is coherent. On the tail end of a kratom buzz after writing a bunch of essays for school apps all day. My brains a bit frazzled. But I appreciate the responses.


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Anonymous #1

Re: Sexless Marriage [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #25438312 - 09/05/18 08:33 PM (7 months, 10 days ago)

"I think you would be in your right to bring up all this stuff and while  you need to definitely be understanding of your wifes position too, she needs to be more understanding of yours."

Yeah, that's part of the issue. 4 years ago it was like "It is really important to me that you understand what I'm going through in order for this to work". Now whenever I try and be there for her and ask what she's feeling its "I dunno. You think I know what I'm feeling?" I feel like I'm married to a brick wall sometimes.


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InvisiblePecheur
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Re: Sexless Marriage [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #25438647 - 09/05/18 10:13 PM (7 months, 9 days ago)

I agree.  I’d bring it up in therapy.  I think a lot of people mistake fighting with eachother and fighting the problem.  It’s tough when someone is being like a brick wall but hopefully she can listen in the right environment.    You have needs, and you want her to feel good and want intimacy too, not to just roll over without any feeling in it.  So maybe it’s gunna take brain storming to work together on fulfilling your needs and not just you putting in all the work to help her with her needs.  Sex is different for women.  Some days I’m very push to start, and others it’s the little things that are not there in the harder relationships make me pull away.  You sound very supportive and like you are putting a lot of good effort in.  I hope things get better and you guys find the light and joy again.


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InvisiblemndfreezeM
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Re: Sexless Marriage [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #25438781 - 09/05/18 11:13 PM (7 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Anonymous #1 said:
Thanks to both of you. I probably won't actually cheat. I have no intentions of hurting her like that. It's just starting to feel like the only way I'd ever have sex again. I mean, it's not ideal either. I want sex with HER specifically. I'm also incredibly introverted so approved and non-approved dates don't really work for me lol. The efforts I put into meeting a girl have to pay out with an LTR :rofl: But I guess this is the age of tinder so maybe it's not as hard as I think...

Therapist has been out on maternity leave but will be back in a few weeks I think. Might be time for another visit. In fact, I think I might have my wife sit out of this one so I can talk one on one with the therapist without hurting any feelings. The thing is I HAVE brought this all up before... but I don't think she understands the severity of it. Or she finds a way to turn it on her self "Well I'm just a really shitty wife aren't I?" rather than actually doing anything productive with it. Maybe the therapist can mediate a more productive conversation though if I get a chance to really be blunt about my feelings without my wife in the room. But my feeling is my wife will ride the sinking ship until she's been dumped in the water. That's just kind of how she is... hard worker. But not motivated to step outside her comfort zone at all.

I'm 26. No kids fortunately. This is actually an issue that has prevented me from ever wanting kids. Needs conflicts with those you live with is unbelievably exhausting. We do have dogs though... and that complicates things. They are my best friends and leaving her means leaving them. I don't see myself leaving her short term. I'm an introvert and don't really have anyone else. My fear is that I'm going back to school and my marriage may not survive the long haul if I'm surrounded by intelligent and attractive people in my career field and she doesn't plug this leak. That happened when I went on a mission trip this summer. I became unbelievably attracted to a girl I met who is like a third as pretty as my wife. Nothing happened, but the tension is definitely there.

Hope this is coherent. On the tail end of a kratom buzz after writing a bunch of essays for school apps all day. My brains a bit frazzled. But I appreciate the responses.





Do what you can to remove the "probably" from your 'wont cheat' statement.  You will feel better if you respect yourself and her by ending the relationship before you break that trust.  There is nothing about sex that is worth destroying that level of self respect for yourself or her.  No matter how alluring some hot woman throwing herself at you is, you will have regrets and they will be huge.

I think the alone time with the therapist is a good idea.  A lot of time in marriage counseling they do this anyway just so each person can give open and honest feedback without the other partner clouding it up with heir presence and related emotions.  I think once you fill them in, especially if you highlight how serious it is, your therapist will be able to give you some good feedback on expectations as well as either change up therapy methods for you both or intensify it. 

You are also young.  I divorced in my mid 20's and I had a lot of women appearing before it happened and I can attest it made my unhappy marriage at home that much more of a nightmare so I get it, but I'm glad I never cheated.  My issue was not the same as yours, I got sex whenever I wanted, but it was empty feeling.  I longed for a connection as it felt my marriage had become a business contract.  In that last sense it's similar to yours.  Were I able to go back and do it again I would have gone the therapy route.  I did not and its definitely a regret, though I'm not sure it would have changed the outcome in my case. 

It's good you don't have kids at least as that complicates things to an ungodly huge amount, both on the home front and on the leaving front.  The responsibility for your actions is a million fold lol.   


Keep us updated as things progress if you want.  We're always here to bullshit with or offer help.


--------------------
Nothing says love like grannies prolapsed anus!

quote]Urb said:
I know... Its fucked up... Ill fix it minyana..[/quote]


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Invisiblepachoo
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Re: Sexless Marriage [Re: Anonymous #1] * 1
    #25438982 - 09/06/18 12:51 AM (7 months, 9 days ago)

I agree with the above stated advice for bringing it up in therapy. I think at first you should do it alone, and if you and your therapist agree after, bringing it up with the couple's therapy.

This is some pretty hard advice to give regarding PTSD and your relationship. I'm going to just gloss over the sexual fantasy part since that's just desire talking in my opinion. You stated that you want her and only her... so I'm going to go on with that. Having PTSD myself and dealing with major 'flare ups' until I was able to get them under control I can really empathized with her to a point. I've never really had low desire for sex though....

Can I ask what her PTSD is in relation to? Is it from sexual, physical abuse, military? I often had problems with closing myself off to my partner or becoming dissociated during high levels of stress.... which often led me to react impulsively. The thing that I always felt I needed was to feel safe... and heard. I needed that physical connection, not sexually as much, but just touching, hugging, kisses, being held and feeling safe with that person. Sometimes it had to be worked with my relationship to feel safe, like I logically knew I was safe and in my gut, but from my trauma brain it felt like I was worthless and shouldn't be happy. It's actually really hard to explain....

But anywho, my point is have you asked her what she would like you to do? Have you tried to just be non-sexually intimate with her during the day. Touching her, goosing her, surprising her with kisses. For some reason, the funner and more innocent type intimacy I get, the more less on guard I am. It might be with some correlation of when I received my trauma, in childhood... so I'm always subconsciously trying to get some sort of young joy out of it.

After dealing with my PTSD, I've figured some stuff out... that I am always trying to recapture what I felt was 'stolen' from me... Since childhood, it was my innocence for example. Maybe it could be the same for her? Perhaps if you have a very good idea of how she feels with this and when it happened, there can be some ... I dunno.... continuance of her life before it happened?


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:heartpump::heartpump: :heartpump::heartpump:


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Invisiblepineninja
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Re: Sexless Marriage [Re: pachoo]
    #25438999 - 09/06/18 12:58 AM (7 months, 9 days ago)

At some point in most longterm relationships the frequency of sex will wane and if you're lucky enough to go into old age together probably stop.

The sex that you may get from another relationship will be good but are you willing to pay the price of not being with your best friend as your lives evolve.

No 2 relationships are the same and we all have our needs and desires, nothings perfect cept the word.


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Just a fool on the hill.


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Anonymous #1

Re: Sexless Marriage [Re: pineninja]
    #25439461 - 09/06/18 09:47 AM (7 months, 9 days ago)

"Keep us updated as things progress if you want."

Lol this is the update. I came on here looking for advice and found another anon post I made 4 years ago :rofl:

When I said probably I meant I have no intentions but if the situation presents itself after another 10 years of frustration I don't honestly know how I'll handle it.

I know what you mean with the empty feeling though. Whenever we do anything it's like a 50/50 chance I'm getting it on with my wife vs a motionless sack of potatoes. It almost bothers me when she's present because it gets my hopes up thinking we're making progress and then we're back to square one within a week or two and I dip way harder than if we just eliminated sexual contact altogether.

@pachoo I am 100% attracted to other people of all sexes. It's not that I ONLY want sex with her necessarily. It's more that other people are not a long term substitute for a healthy relationship with my wife. If this was a healthy polyamarous relationship there wouldn't be an issue. The issue is not being able to have sex with my partner who I have put in years of working together with and having memories, feelings, bonds, and goals with.

Her PTSD is from rape. She was drugged in college one night. So to a degree I almost feel bad being frustrated. But at some point I kind of feel you make your own bed when you decide to live your life confronting your fears or avoiding them. And she is always the latter. I have been trying to understand her and her needs since we met and the problem is she is getting excessively difficult to communicate with about them. Like when you ask a girl what they want to eat: "I dunno". But it's that... with our sex life. The only thing she can confidently tell me most of the time is what she doesn't want.

I definitely do a lot of non-sexually intimate stuff with her. In fact there is no problem in that area of our relationship at all. Part of what we've come to is scheduled intimate time. But the whole point was to gradually work in stuff slightly outside her comfort zone and start expanding her range of positive experiences. But we've been doing that for like nine months now and I'm still just giving her back massages most of the time which I can promise, are very well within her comfort zone. We've done other similar things as recommended by our therapist over the course of our relationship. Had they led anywhere in all those years I might be more patient with this one. But it's just starting to seem like a circular pattern. Where about once a year it will feel like we're having breakthrough progress for about a week or two, and then it's back to square one.


Edited by Anonymous (09/06/18 09:48 AM)


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InvisiblePecheur
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Re: Sexless Marriage [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #25439610 - 09/06/18 11:23 AM (7 months, 9 days ago)

That really does illuminate things, the cause of the ptsd I mean.  I’m 9 years past my horror story.  There’s still nights I’ve woken up checking my eye socket where my head got bashed in trying to fight back, relieving it yet again in a night terror.  There’s been times dating where I’ve panicked when someone is pushing the envelope (a new person not a husband) and I would black out and lose hours or simply run.  She can make it through it.  I didn’t have a therapist and I couldn’t tell anyone really.    It takes practice but I am much more capable of intimacy in the entirety of its spectrum now.  But it took a lot of me making friends with demons and facing them because despite what I felt was taken from me, I wanted to give and work on receiving affection from good people.  Life shouldn’t end because of how awful people can be.  But she has to want it and to fight for it on her side, not just for you but for herself.  I had to decide I was worth fighting for all by myself and for myself.  Has she seen a therapist by herself to work on surviving past the trauma?  It’s hard to talk about, and the partner I have told it was really difficult, it might be hard to bear those things in front of a husband that is already trying so hard to hold it all together.


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Anonymous #1

Re: Sexless Marriage [Re: Pecheur]
    #25440008 - 09/06/18 02:38 PM (7 months, 9 days ago)

Pecheur, I have to ask if you don't mind. Your post was a little cryptic but I'm assuming you're talking about a personal experience with sexual assault? You don't have to answer that. But it is really encouraging and refreshing to hear from someone who's been through it and made progress. I can never expect that it ever fully goes away, but like you, I want to see her make progress and take ownership of her sexuality. And not just ownership in saying "no". She is very good at that nowadays. But "yes" and "this is what I like" as well. And if not to me, at least someone. She owes herself that.

Her experience is very similar in that the following year or so she would have those "pushed envelope" experiences where she can't remember if they were even consensual or not because she blacked out the memories.

She has seen a therapist, extensively. She still has phone consults with her old therapist every other week or so. And we've done lots of couples therapy as well. So she's had plenty of opportunity to process it that way.

Anything else you can tell me that might help would be appreciated. Of course, you don't have to. I'm not trying to open up old wounds. But if you don't mind... what did progress look like? Those experiences you were afraid to reengage... did you wait until they were not scary? Or did you have to engage them first and lose the fear later? Am I right to think that sexual intimacy is not simply an endpoint but also part of the process of healing?

Anyways thanks so much for your time everyone. This started as a buzzed rant at 2am and I'm really glad I did it lol.


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InvisibleJokeshopbeardM
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Re: Sexless Marriage [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #25440018 - 09/06/18 02:46 PM (7 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Anonymous #1 said:
This started as a buzzed rant at 2am and I'm really glad I did it lol.



Me too man.


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Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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InvisiblePecheur
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Re: Sexless Marriage [Re: Jokeshopbeard] * 4
    #25440338 - 09/06/18 05:32 PM (7 months, 9 days ago)

I’d be hesistant otherwise but I wish someone back then would have been able to understand or help me.  If I can help in some way then it is worth it to put my personal shit out there.  Maybe understanding how I felt can show you a little of what she might be feeling beyond what you might see on her face.  It’s not as heavy a burden as it was years ago.  A girl I was at a party with handed me a drink she said she watched someone make (meaning it was safe).  She did not watch them, and I paid the price.  She left the party without telling me  and had passed my bag she was using to someone.  I feel like the the details don’t matter aside from the fact that I was beaten and raped repeatedly and was simply in the wrong place at the right time.  Broken bones, bruises, getting away and making it to a hospital and having to walk in close to naked.  Stomach pumped, humiliated and the blood under my nails somehow wasn’t even enough to bring me justice and salvation.    You go through shame, guilt, and telling yourself it wasn’t your fault.  It’s worse if the woman has convinced herself it was her fault. 

  Even if you don’t have physical scars you carry something that feels unclean and for me genuine affection and letting people close was so hard.  What was worse, was for all my effort, people could sense something almost and would turn away because that innocent easy connecting that young people do.... was not something I had anymore.  For awhile it felt like affection couldn’t reach me, like trying to feel something through an extra thick layer of leather. 

I had to want to, and to push myself.  It got easier, but it was because I wanted more from life and no one was going to take the joy out of my life without me dying trying.  I didn’t deserve to be unhappy because a predatory undisciplined entitled shithead picked me.  I failed several times and it hurt.  Blacking out with a boyfriend here and there and not wanting to explain not to grab my neck, why I couldn’t recall things we had done.  My panic to others would have been misplaced and a sign of weakness or mental illness.  People could tell I was holding something back and ultimately  leave.  Sometimes someone would do something that would remind me and I’d have flash backs of the incident.    I didn’t have a safe partner to really try with.  And what was worse is when I would try to tell people, hey I’ve been through a lot, take it slow, let me handle pushing the envelope....they wouldn’t get it or I’d get the pity look.  The pity look is the worst, because I don’t see myself as a victim.  I survived.  And I fought fucking hard to be my own hero.  You don’t share because you want attention or pity, but because you are trying to connect despite it, and need someone to understand you are fighting your own war for the simplest things some days.  And to clarify I’ve only ever flat out discussed it with any real detail freely with one person.  Any other attempt never got close to that and generally the male will get the idea and shut down long before I can articulate the need for understanding. 

I was afraid people wouldn’t understand, or they’d feel that unclean chip in my soul and run, and at that age a woman’s sexuality is still really developing.  I did a lot of things to figure mine out.  She might not know what gets her going anymore.  At one stage I found if I controlled every aspect of how and when and exactly how I was touched I could do it.  But it would have been easier with someone I could have trust, who was trying to stay, or fighting for me as much as I was fighting for myself.    The thing with rape is that for some women the threat is still very there.  You don’t go out alone, you don’t drink where you can’t be in absolute control, you are very aware that at some point if you aren’t aware, you could be hunted again.  I used to never get drunk even with a partner I cared about because I wouldn’t be in absolute control of everything and if they got too aggressive in their excitement I didn’t know what I’d betray or what would happen.

I hope she picks to want to fight it.  Im not sure if there are support groups for this, most women don’t want to talk about it at all and I’m sure many women take it to the grave because of the social connotations it brings.    First I had to want to fight, and then I tried consistently.  I wanted love desperately, I still do, but seeing my wounds hurt someone equally sucks.  Even how it might color how they think of me.    I tried kink but it was romance and consistency that let me open up again long term.  Eventually the breath caught in your chest like the omen of a hurricane coming can turn into butterflies again.  I still get scared but it’s not as bad as it was at all, and it doesn’t stop me.  I used to hide from the storm, but now I dance in the rain as crunchy as that sounds. 

You probably want to stay anon but you can pm me whenever if you ever need to.  I got you.  She’s lucky you’ve stayed.    I’m hoping she gets some peace and healing and can decide she deserves the spectrum of affection and good that is still out there.  And of course that you too get your needs to connect with her fulfilled.   

Sorry if your eyeballs are bleeding from reading all that.


Edited by Pecheur (09/06/18 05:54 PM)


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Anonymous #1

Re: Sexless Marriage [Re: Pecheur]
    #25440790 - 09/06/18 07:57 PM (7 months, 9 days ago)

Wow Pecheur that is a very powerful story and I can't thank you enough for sharing. To my wife and any other person going through it, I apologize if my ignorance has in any way ever been hurtful. I don't know what it's like to be sexually assaulted, but I do know what it's like to be fighting a daily invisible war and trying to connect with people who don't have a shred of idea why you have certain needs or have changed from a way you "used to be". I hope you keep sharing your story. As someone who's never been through it, it paints a vivid picture. And not an "unclean" one at all. It feels very human and makes your experience real to me. Not that I ever doubted. But there's a long way from believing someone's recollection of the events to feeling their pain and understanding who they are as a result. And I've heard this story so many times, but it's a discussion worth having again and again. Really, it's an honor that you shared and I am really happy for your triumphs. Knowing that you've gotten through something like that and prevailed can be one of the most powerful feelings. At least, in my experience it has and that's the kind of thing I aspire for my wife to experience. But like you said, it's on her.

Many parts of your story resonate with my wife's. She wasn't beat as far as I know, but was drugged. Worse yet, it was Halloween so she caught shit in the newspaper comments for her "slutty outfit" because "she was asking for it". And that aspect of questioning whether it was her fault has definitely been a challenge. It's so shitty because personally I don't care. Whether she had chosen to flaunt her sexuality or not, or even whether she consented or not doesn't make me think any less of her. I can only imagine that the "shame" adds a disproportionate amount to the trauma. And the shitty part is that that doesn't even come from a lone attacker. It comes from the people around you.

She does have some support groups but I don't know how much she actively participates in them. Like you said, most don't like to talk about it. I just don't really know how else we are going to progress if she can't find her true voice in the bedroom. I guess this just comes back to 1 on 1 with the couples therapist. What you said about not wanting your wounds to hurt someone else is the toughest part for me to deal with. It is so difficult to express my hurt and frustration because I know it pales in comparison to what she goes through. Nonetheless it is real, and I want to express it without hurting her. I just don't want her to hear "you're a big fuck up". I want her to hear "this is how important it is to you as an individual and this relationship". But I've been there in my own way. You can't really show someone their own light.

As for the anon, that is more to prevent her from seeing my posts than any concern about other members knowing my identity. I appreciate you reaching out with the PM and will message you if needed


Edited by Anonymous (09/06/18 10:54 PM)


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Invisiblepachoo
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Re: Sexless Marriage [Re: Anonymous #1] * 1
    #25440837 - 09/06/18 08:14 PM (7 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Anonymous #1 said:
@pachoo I am 100% attracted to other people of all sexes. It's not that I ONLY want sex with her necessarily. It's more that other people are not a long term substitute for a healthy relationship with my wife. If this was a healthy polyamarous relationship there wouldn't be an issue. The issue is not being able to have sex with my partner who I have put in years of working together with and having memories, feelings, bonds, and goals with.

Her PTSD is from rape. She was drugged in college one night. So to a degree I almost feel bad being frustrated. But at some point I kind of feel you make your own bed when you decide to live your life confronting your fears or avoiding them. And she is always the latter. I have been trying to understand her and her needs since we met and the problem is she is getting excessively difficult to communicate with about them. Like when you ask a girl what they want to eat: "I dunno". But it's that... with our sex life. The only thing she can confidently tell me most of the time is what she doesn't want.

I definitely do a lot of non-sexually intimate stuff with her. In fact there is no problem in that area of our relationship at all. Part of what we've come to is scheduled intimate time. But the whole point was to gradually work in stuff slightly outside her comfort zone and start expanding her range of positive experiences. But we've been doing that for like nine months now and I'm still just giving her back massages most of the time which I can promise, are very well within her comfort zone. We've done other similar things as recommended by our therapist over the course of our relationship. Had they led anywhere in all those years I might be more patient with this one. But it's just starting to seem like a circular pattern. Where about once a year it will feel like we're having breakthrough progress for about a week or two, and then it's back to square one.





Yea, that's a hard one to advise on, I was actually scared that would be what her PTSD was from as it's very different than what I went through. It's a whole other ballgame. Pecheur gave some really great advise on it as well and I hope maybe your girl can hear some of it and take some of it.

The main difference is that as a child, I knew nothing else but trauma so I never knew how to act or feel normal. With rape survivors, it's almost opposite, they grew up establishing some sort of persona for themselves and then their identity and safety was taken, so it's more of a not knowing how to react. They both come with numbing and being closed off, but after sharing experiences with other PTSD survivors we have found that difference.

I agree with your reasoning that it's almost a choice to live avoiding your problems and trauma, but it's also not so great to push it on her. She has to make that choice for herself. Because if it's pushed too far on her, she will close up.... or even if she pushes it too much on herself, it will take a heavy toll on her mental wellbeing. As was the case with myself, I was much like Pecheur in not allowing it to control my life, but I forced myself to relive it and dealing with other current life stresses, it made me go nearly insane. I did not have a good time at all. But eventually I faced them, I forgave the abusers, I forgave myself in feeling the way I did, and let it go. You have to move on. That's the only for sure thing that I know what to do. You just have to. Holding onto it, standing still, reacting in fear and hurt will do the most damage. She owes it to herself to put it to rest and move on. Another point I wanted to make is it's not as much as having to remember everything that happened, it's focusing and letting go on how you felt because of it. Many things I experienced I remember being drugged as a child and only capturing glimpses of things where my adult brain could fill out the details. I'm also really glad she is still pursuing therapy for herself in this. I know it's hard. :heartpump:

There was this really weird and great thing that I found helped alot... it's a series of videos from this amazing woman, Adina Rivers (My Tiny Secrets). She taps into self love and opening yourself up again after trauma. She also gives great advise on couples connecting with each other through sex.



7 Unique ways to transform sexual trauma into orgamic bliss





Touching on the subject of wanting to be with her because of long term relationship.... I get it.

Perhaps after bringing this up in therapy and then speaking to her about it as well, telling her exactly how it is making you feel and the struggles you are having with the lack of sex, she could be more open to trying more.... or to being in an open relationship. Perhaps even sharing a partner with you. I dunno. Speak to her about it, but after explaining very carefully and fully how this is making you feel. The truth hurts sometimes, but it's not anyone's fault. And please be gentle and reassure her of that. You seem to have been extremely sympathetic and supportive to her pain and her having the space and time to find healing, but if she is not really doing much of the healing... she's going to have to do more to help you with your two's relationship. But again... said gently. With something as emotional as this too, it is best to take deep breaths in communication to react more logically and less with hurt and anger. You both matter, remember that.

I wish you luck my friend!! Update us still, especially after speaking with the therapist!! :heartpump:




@Pecheur - Damn girl, :hug: :heartpump: :pm: me if you need anyone to talk to anyone as well.


--------------------


:heartpump::heartpump: :heartpump::heartpump:


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Anonymous #1

Re: Sexless Marriage [Re: pachoo]
    #25441498 - 09/07/18 12:45 AM (7 months, 8 days ago)

"I agree with your reasoning that it's almost a choice to live avoiding your problems and trauma, but it's also not so great to push it on her. She has to make that choice for herself. Because if it's pushed too far on her, she will close up"

Yeah, that's why it's an absolutely fucked situation. Because in a normal relationship I would just be like "my needs aren't getting met, we need to do better". But this is so damned sensitive. I'm definitely trying to do my best to be careful about how I bring it up, and often don't for that reason. I mean, I have before in therapy. So she knows. But it's something I really try to avoid putting out there because I know she probably beats herself up about it plenty enough without my confirmation that I am indeed frustrated.

"Another point I wanted to make is it's not as much as having to remember everything that happened, it's focusing and letting go on how you felt because of it."

Great point. I'll definitely keep that in mind. I'm sure that's a huge part of it like I mentioned with the "shame" earlier.

Thanks for your thoughtful post. And the videos. I watched several of them and I think they are AWESOME. If anything, I think it would help for her to have a female role model who can talk about sex in a positive and lighthearted way. And particularly all the instructionals lol. I can tell she has some anxiety over performance and some of the "how to's", so maybe those videos will help. And also maybe help give her ideas of things that make her tick so that rather than telling me what all she doesn't like all the time, she can give me some things she does want to try.


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Anonymous #2

Re: Sexless Marriage [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #25441527 - 09/07/18 01:15 AM (7 months, 8 days ago)

Have sex with an escort. You will feel better. Your wife will never know. Be smart and use protection. Best $100 you will ever spend. No strings attached or needy side chick. Then at least you can have some physical relief while still trying to work things out with the wife.


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Re: Sexless Marriage [Re: Anonymous #2] * 2
    #25441532 - 09/07/18 01:20 AM (7 months, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Anonymous #2 said:
Have sex with an escort. You will feel better. Your wife will never know. Be smart and use protection. Best $100 you will ever spend. No strings attached or needy side chick. Then at least you can have some physical relief while still trying to work things out with the wife.





This is terrible advice.  The only way this would be good advice is if the wife knows, is on board, and approves.  Lies beget lies and spread like a cancer through you until they have destroyed your self worth and anything else resting on you as a foundation of support.


--------------------
Nothing says love like grannies prolapsed anus!

quote]Urb said:
I know... Its fucked up... Ill fix it minyana..[/quote]


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Anonymous #2

Re: Sexless Marriage [Re: mndfreeze] * 1
    #25441539 - 09/07/18 01:31 AM (7 months, 8 days ago)

Yes you're right, it is terrible advice. He should just keep on jerking off for the rest of his life because he wants to be a nice guy to a woman who doesnt care about his needs. Eventually his penis will shrivel up and fall off from atrophy, but at least he will have the satisfaction of knowing that he did the right thing.


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Re: Sexless Marriage [Re: Anonymous #2]
    #25441565 - 09/07/18 01:57 AM (7 months, 8 days ago)

You seem lonely, though its pretty obvious why that is.  Regardless the guy is trying to save his marriage, not destroy it further.  So yeah, it very much is terrible advice.


--------------------
Nothing says love like grannies prolapsed anus!

quote]Urb said:
I know... Its fucked up... Ill fix it minyana..[/quote]


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Anonymous #2

Re: Sexless Marriage [Re: mndfreeze]
    #25442032 - 09/07/18 09:29 AM (7 months, 8 days ago)

Not lonely at all. And never been divorced.

Best luck with everything OP. Don't be scared to think outside the box. Its your life, only you can live it, and you only live once.


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InvisiblePecheur
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Re: Sexless Marriage [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #25442236 - 09/07/18 11:25 AM (7 months, 8 days ago)

I thought about this at work all last night.  I think I have an idea.  She’s got to work this out and find her fire and want again right?  But potentially her pushing herself to fulfill your needs is crippling her to the point that she’s not making progress.... so I was thinking what are the other options? 

And it hit me.  I took a pole class and it was really beneficial.  Hear me out.  It was a super liberal one about women owning their sexuality and being sexy for themselves and having time to enjoy being their ‘inner goddess’.    Let’s say that’s not her thing (it might not be, I liked it once I was there but it was a gift from a friend, not something I chose)....what if you found physical activities that make her feel good in her own body again? Perhaps that wouldn’t be her cup of tea but what if it was something you could do together?  Like a salsa class together might be great for bonding and make her feel sexy.  She’d be safe with you.  Not only could you boost serotonin and positive endorphins with the physical activity but it’s bonding, its an activity she wouldn’t have to do alone....it might make her feel attractive again?  I know you said you are introverted but maybe it would be something where both of you could step outside your comfort zone to build something really great?  Maybe there’s an activity like that that would work towards bridging the gap that therapy isn’t quite touching.   

There’s got to be a positive avenue that we haven’t thought of.  If therapy ain’t cutting it, you gotta look outside the box.  Obviously I’m really rooting for you guys.

You weren’t hurtful and it was nice to have a positive response to something people really shy away from.  While I wasn’t itching to spill my guts persay to a community I want to be a part of for a long time.... humanity owes it to one another to help and grow with eachother and there’s a lot of good folks here who are here to help, and it was my turn I think.  I’m not sure how helpful it was since I don’t have the survival formula other than I was stubborn, persistant, already used to living with a lot of pain alone and was on a mission to love and be loved despite my demons.  I think if she can reclaim her body she’ll want to share it with you again.  There’s a catalyst we just haven’t thought of yet to help her get there.  I’m curious about the videos Pachoo recommended now so I’ll have to take a look out of curiousity.

I really feel for your wife.  The shame and being blamed for her own personal nightmare has likely been unbearable torture for her that crushes me just thinking about it.    If I had kept that mindset back then I wouldn’t have survived. 

She may be weathering a shit storm in a really secluded way (to protect herself from likely getting worse), but she’s a tough lady.    You’ll get there.  I’m not sure if she’ll do it fast enough before you won’t be able to keep putting her first but Im really hoping so.

@pachoo you are good peoples, I’m totally okay I think even though it was not something normal me would ever  put out there, buuuuuuuuut I’d take you up on chatting with your cool self whenever just because I’d dig that.  :heart:


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Re: Sexless Marriage [Re: Anonymous #2]
    #25442258 - 09/07/18 11:35 AM (7 months, 8 days ago)

Look anon 2.    Behave.    Also no ones dick falls off from not getting laid.  And I dont think this was ever about cheap satisfaction in climaxing in one of his wife’s orifices or anyone else’s  but missing connecting with another human physically.  They really aren’t the same thing but obviously we are talking about two different qualities of men.  He does have a right to having his needs met but maybe don’t spread evil on people who are otherwise trying to be good.  He asked for help for his marriage, not the quickest way to a nut.  It’s good you were wise enough to be anon, because it is kind of an ugly display of undiciplined unevolved bull to spew.


Edited by Pecheur (09/07/18 02:32 PM)


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Re: Sexless Marriage [Re: Pecheur]
    #25442631 - 09/07/18 03:01 PM (7 months, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Pecheur said:
And it hit me.  I took a pole class and it was really beneficial.  Hear me out.  It was a super liberal one about women owning their sexuality and being sexy for themselves and having time to enjoy being their ‘inner goddess’.    Let’s say that’s not her thing (it might not be, I liked it once I was there but it was a gift from a friend, not something I chose)....what if you found physical activities that make her feel good in her own body again? Perhaps that wouldn’t be her cup of tea but what if it was something you could do together?  Like a salsa class together might be great for bonding and make her feel sexy.  She’d be safe with you.  Not only could you boost serotonin and positive endorphins with the physical activity but it’s bonding, its an activity she wouldn’t have to do alone....it might make her feel attractive again?  I know you said you are introverted but maybe it would be something where both of you could step outside your comfort zone to build something really great?  Maybe there’s an activity like that that would work towards bridging the gap that therapy isn’t quite touching.   







THIS!! This is what I was coming to the conclusion to as well. But you put it so much more beautifully. She has got to reclaim her sexuality again for her. Even with self loving herself alone. It is a process and it really does almost start with her loving herself. Then adding in husband. She has to find and outlet for feeling sexy as a woman again, and hopefully one that they can do together. Cooking, athletics, art... whatever they want.















Jesus christ Anon 2 :facepalm:


--------------------


:heartpump::heartpump: :heartpump::heartpump:


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Anonymous #1

Re: Sexless Marriage [Re: Pecheur]
    #25443909 - 09/08/18 12:23 AM (7 months, 7 days ago)

Quote:

Pecheur said:

You weren’t hurtful and it was nice to have a positive response to something people really shy away from.  While I wasn’t itching to spill my guts persay to a community I want to be a part of for a long time.... humanity owes it to one another to help and grow with eachother and there’s a lot of good folks here who are here to help, and it was my turn I think.  I’m not sure how helpful it was since I don’t have the survival formula other than I was stubborn, persistant, already used to living with a lot of pain alone and was on a mission to love and be loved despite my demons.  I think if she can reclaim her body she’ll want to share it with you again.  There’s a catalyst we just haven’t thought of yet to help her get there.  I’m curious about the videos Pachoo recommended now so I’ll have to take a look out of curiousity.






You were definitely helpful! Even just being able to hear all the similarities between your experience and hers and then how you overcame (I don't know the best word here) your struggles. It's reinforcement that my wife's not broken. She has tremendous healing capacity. And it's all just about getting her to want it bad enough and figuring out what kicks up the momentum. What you said about persistence and fighting demons IS the formula. That's a lesson I've been forced to learn over and over again since 6th grade. The answers to each dilemma are unique, but persistence is the only thing that will get you there.

I think your suggestion is awesome and makes a lot of sense. It will definitely take some creative thinking to figure out exactly activity could get her in touch with that. But I bet that's something the therapist might know, since she specializes in trauma. I'm sure it's a pretty common issue


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OfflineCajun love
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Re: Sexless Marriage [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #25452763 - 09/11/18 06:30 PM (7 months, 4 days ago)

You gotta make her want to sleep with you. Go to the gym, lose/gain weight, get a fresh haircut, fresh clothes, etc. Then take her out and BOTH of yall get FUCKED UP on whatever drugs or alcohol you like, seriously. Then after you have a great time together dont push for sex that night. She will appreciate the no strings atyached awesome night out and will want to reward you. If that doesnt work you need to accept the fact that sex is not coming and never will. You are Wayyy to young to be in a sexless marriage.


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OfflineDogon4671
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Re: Sexless Marriage [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #25460416 - 09/14/18 08:02 PM (7 months, 1 day ago)

As for the last message sometimes it's not because you have become less attractive to the opposite sex sometimes it's because they have a problem with themselves, seeing how she has PTSD that could be the major factor in what's "turning her off" I also know depression follows PTSD and that itself is a huge downer on the sex drive. The comment when you did bring it up at therapy and she "attacked" herself is a clear sign of self mutilation mentally she probably really thinks she's aweful for not fulfilling her husbands needs and is embarrassed when it's brought up. You can also look at the other end of the spectrum and jump to the conclusion that she's cheating, but I doubt that's the case if the sex drive has been similarly low the entire time. Do something mysterious, recreate a date make her feel worth something, because she probably is beating herself up mentally.

Otherwise is the relationship great in other ways can you come home and express yourself without feeling judged? Do you two laugh together and have a joyous time? Is it just the lack of sex that makes your mind stray off?


--------------------
You're primitive man on the savannah. You see something move out of the corner of your eye. You assume it's a hyena. You run, you live. If you assume it's the wind and you're wrong, you die. We have the genes of the ones who ran. We're genetically hard-wired to believe living forces that we cannot see..


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: Sexless Marriage [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #25474173 - 09/20/18 02:17 AM (6 months, 26 days ago)

Quote:

Anonymous #1 said:

We're spending all this money on couples therapy and doing weekly intimacy sessions . . .




When our lover becomes our best friend, it can take a big toll on sexual desire.

Instead of becoming closer, consider you may be too close. If you two have fused and
become enmeshed, that can totally kill desire. Eroticism thrives in the space between the
self and the other. Without space between lovers, desire can't be cultivated and blossom.

It's very difficult to experience desire when you're weighted down by concern. The more
serious you get about fixing this problem, it might become worse. How about having other fun? 

Esther Perel wrote the international bestseller, "Mating in Captivity", which dissects, in amazing
detail, how and why desire can disappear in a relationship. I wish I'd read it before my divorce.


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OfflineDoneKildatReason
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Re: Sexless Marriage [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #25474444 - 09/20/18 07:35 AM (6 months, 26 days ago)

Did anyone mention the kind of therapy for ptsd that uses eye movement and some lights.... Cannot think of the name and sorry if i missed in the above.

I know someone who went through years and years of panic and physical sensation of the childhood rape before trying this therapy.  Now their heart doesnt start pounding and they dont feel the sensation of the rapist pressing into them any more....

What is that therapy called.... Cant think....


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OfflineDoneKildatReason
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Re: Sexless Marriage [Re: DoneKildatReason] * 1
    #25474446 - 09/20/18 07:37 AM (6 months, 26 days ago)

Eye movement desensitization and reprocessing (EMDR)

Okay just took 5 seconds of google.... May help.


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InvisibleJokeshopbeardM
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Re: Sexless Marriage [Re: DoneKildatReason]
    #25474461 - 09/20/18 07:45 AM (6 months, 26 days ago)

I've heard very promising things about EMDR for PTSD also.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
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Anonymous #1

Re: Sexless Marriage [Re: DoneKildatReason]
    #25475305 - 09/20/18 03:00 PM (6 months, 26 days ago)

I appreciate the continued responses folks

Quote:

Dogon4671 said:


Otherwise is the relationship great in other ways can you come home and express yourself without feeling judged? Do you two laugh together and have a joyous time? Is it just the lack of sex that makes your mind stray off?





For the most part. I'm more comfortable around her than anyone else. I find sometimes I have some resentment and I don't know if that's the lack of sex, or just the introvert me having a tough time sharing my space with a partner. It's on and off. Most of the time we connect pretty well but then we have some periods where I'm just annoyed with different aspects of her, but I know I'm no walk in the park myself so... The way I feel about her is like... I don't ever want us to separate. But at the same time, if we did, I feel like I might not get back into a committed relationship again.



Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
Quote:

Anonymous #1 said:

We're spending all this money on couples therapy and doing weekly intimacy sessions . . .




When our lover becomes our best friend, it can take a big toll on sexual desire.

Instead of becoming closer, consider you may be too close. If you two have fused and
become enmeshed, that can totally kill desire. Eroticism thrives in the space between the
self and the other. Without space between lovers, desire can't be cultivated and blossom.

It's very difficult to experience desire when you're weighted down by concern. The more
serious you get about fixing this problem, it might become worse. How about having other fun? 

Esther Perel wrote the international bestseller, "Mating in Captivity", which dissects, in amazing
detail, how and why desire can disappear in a relationship. I wish I'd read it before my divorce.




Interesting RJ, I'll have to take a look into that. There's definitely more desire after I've been out of town for a while. But even if distance promotes a spontaneous sexual encounter, I can't just keep abandoning her to get laid. Believe me, I maintain plenty of distance in the house. I hang out with her for a bit when she gets off work and then eat dinner with her and watch TV. But other than that I spend most of my time locked in a room reading books or with my headphones on playing the piano.

Quote:

DoneKildatReason said:
Eye movement desensitization and reprocessing (EMDR)

Okay just took 5 seconds of google.... May help.




She's done it before. I don't recall the deal, but I know it was intense for her. I'm not sure if she did it for long enough. We did talk about her doing it some more but forgot about it. The problem is she's never in the "right place" to do it. I mean... who wants to come back from work after 10 hours to meet with a therapist and relive trauma. I don't blame her for feeling that way. But again... when is the right time? It would have to be a big commitment too because it takes many sessions.


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InvisibleJokeshopbeardM
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Re: Sexless Marriage [Re: Anonymous #1] * 1
    #25475344 - 09/20/18 03:13 PM (6 months, 26 days ago)

Quote:

Anonymous #1 said:
who wants to come back from work after 10 hours to meet with a therapist and relive trauma. I don't blame her for feeling that way. But again... when is the right time? It would have to be a big commitment too because it takes many sessions.



The right time is now. Life doesn't get easier as time passes; quite the opposite IME.

When I was in a really bad place in my life I thought nothing of putting in an hour once or twice a week with a therapist - for fifteen months no less. In fact I only stopped because I left the country.

Yes, it's effort, but feeling good is effort. It's why I put about three hours a day into diet and exercise and meditation and reading - I start to feel very shit and sink without it.

I know you're trying to be understanding, but I think it's misplaced on this occasion. If it's tearing you apart you need to put your foot down.

That's one thing I really took away from going through similar stuff to you - I was too passive in trying to be understanding.

Life is hard. For all of us. Some people make the effort to push upstream and some don't.

I'll not sacrifice myself again for someone who isn't pushing upstream.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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OfflineDoneKildatReason
Chemical in the body
Male


Registered: 02/25/05
Posts: 599
Loc: Green Country
Last seen: 2 days, 6 hours
Re: Sexless Marriage [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #25476456 - 09/20/18 10:37 PM (6 months, 25 days ago)

I was thinking.... It may be on her mind at work too at times, making the day harder.  I totally understand you want best for her.... And if she can heal from this it will make work and your relationship and her whole life better.  Nothing is ever set in stone.  She can heal.  Hope she believes she can.  Maybe she thinks now she never will ... I bet it seems that way. 

I hope you guys can pull in the same direction, as JSB alludes to above.  Opposite forces create tension and can even ruin relationships in my personal experience.  Im dealing with that now.... Hurts.  I hope the best for you guys.


--------------------
This was an experiment.


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
Male


Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 3,089
Loc: USA Flag
Last seen: 6 hours, 32 minutes
Re: Sexless Marriage [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #25476823 - 09/21/18 02:18 AM (6 months, 25 days ago)

Quote:

Anonymous #1 said:

I hang out with her for a bit when she gets off work and then eat dinner with her and watch TV.
But other than that I spend most of my time locked in a room reading books or with my headphones on playing the piano.




You also say "I'm more comfortable around her than anyone else."

I appreciate that. I was with my ex for 10 years, and I needed this kind of space. We did exactly this. 

Comfort and passion can be at odds. And we think we know our partner fully, but we don't.
We all hold secrets within ourselves. I don't think my ex and I really ever communicated about
what was really going on within each of us. Oh, we talked a lot! We had passionate discussions,
But not about what was going on within. It's said that all affairs begin with secrets . . . 

How about you? Do you share your deepest darkest secrets?

And do you ever casually touch each other with caring affection?


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Anonymous #3

Re: Sexless Marriage [Re: mndfreeze]
    #25821189 - 02/18/19 05:44 PM (1 month, 30 days ago)

Agreed


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Offlinegreysolive
Stranger
Registered: 02/12/19
Posts: 9
Last seen: 15 days, 12 hours
Re: Sexless Marriage [Re: Anonymous #3] * 1
    #25853740 - 03/05/19 10:02 AM (1 month, 15 days ago)

I was in the same boat that's why I started attending massage parlours. For me it's the best way to relax and have some fun. In my last trip to Europe I found very cool local parlour here in Prague. I still can't forget their awesome masseuses, very hot girls. I like that I could make an appointment with any girl at my hotel. They provide all tyles of massages including erotic massage, tantric massage etc.


Edited by greysolive (03/08/19 05:51 AM)


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