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OfflineShrrrooms
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John Hopkins researcher said 1/3rd experienced bad trips * 1
    #25432581 - 09/03/18 11:44 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

According to a book I was reading.  I found this surprising since the overalll results were so positive. Does this statistic sound right based on the experience of people on this forum? Could they have been talking about the uncomfortable phase people go through early in the experience? If correct, how would this compare with LSD bad trips?


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Invisiblebadchad
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Re: John Hopkins researcher said 1/3rd experienced bad trips [Re: Shrrrooms]
    #25432668 - 09/03/18 12:25 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

The data sound about right. It depends on the outcome measure you're referring to and the specific study. They've performed multiple studies with a variety of assessments (self report ratings, monitor ratings, post session ratings etc.).


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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OfflineShrrrooms
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Re: John Hopkins researcher said 1/3rd experienced bad trips [Re: badchad]
    #25432837 - 09/03/18 01:47 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

1/3 bad trips is scary.  Is this referring to pretty bad trips, not just an uncomfortable phase?  It is enough to make me want to microdose instead? Does LSD produce so many bad trips?


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OfflineSteveinshell
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Re: John Hopkins researcher said 1/3rd experienced bad trips [Re: Shrrrooms] * 2
    #25432887 - 09/03/18 02:17 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Psychedelics in general,  I would say honestly that the tough come up is too much for probably 1/3 and their self preservation kicks in and they don't want to go through that again.  The other 2/3 focused on the rest of the experience.

It's different for everyone.

I am tripping right now.  The come up was fucking intense!  But now i'm good.  See i'm the 2/3rd part enjoying the rest and not focusing on the hard come up.

I really hope this makes sense.


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OfflineGinge
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Re: John Hopkins researcher said 1/3rd experienced bad trips [Re: Shrrrooms]
    #25432899 - 09/03/18 02:23 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

I cannot recall who I heard talking about this, maybe it was in Michael Pollan's book, but they referenced the seemingly high percentage of bad trips.  The premise was that by providing set and setting for a patient, you are influencing the experience of the patient, which in some ways, could be said to negate the study's ability to credit the active drug for the data discovered. Clinicians, in the absence of establishing a good set and setting, can give bad trips, because their environment is so anti-positive of a setting.  I am not sure if this applies to the specific study that you found, and is of course, subject to my interpretation.


--------------------
Ginge





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InvisibleLion of Ragnarok
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Re: John Hopkins researcher said 1/3rd experienced bad trips [Re: Steveinshell]
    #25432904 - 09/03/18 02:27 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Steveinshell said:
Psychedelics in general,  I would say honestly that the tough come up is too much for probably 1/3 and their self preservation kicks in and they don't want to go through that again.  The other 2/3 focused on the rest of the experience.

It's different for everyone.

I am tripping right now.  The come up was fucking intense!  But now i'm good.  See i'm the 2/3rd part enjoying the rest and not focusing on the hard come up.

I really hope this makes sense.




Are you speaking Latin right now, bro?


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OfflineSteveinshell
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Re: John Hopkins researcher said 1/3rd experienced bad trips [Re: Lion of Ragnarok]
    #25433022 - 09/03/18 03:20 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Slightly less now.. fuck.  :smile:


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InvisibleLion of Ragnarok
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Re: John Hopkins researcher said 1/3rd experienced bad trips [Re: Steveinshell]
    #25433036 - 09/03/18 03:24 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Hahah xD I was just kidding! :mushroom2:


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Offlinegoslugsgo
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Re: John Hopkins researcher said 1/3rd experienced bad trips [Re: Ginge]
    #25433055 - 09/03/18 03:33 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

I assume the studies are using psychedelic-naive subjects and 5g doses.

Seems reasonable to me that giving such doses to people who have no idea what they're in for or no skills in managing negativity and bad thought loops will result in a pretty significant number of trips going south in a big way.


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I am just an atom in an ectoplasmic sea without direction or a reason to exist.
The anechoic nebula rotating in my brain is persuading me, contritely, to persist.


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OfflineSteveinshell
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Re: John Hopkins researcher said 1/3rd experienced bad trips [Re: goslugsgo]
    #25433209 - 09/03/18 04:40 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Lion of Ragnarok said:
Hahah xD I was just kidding! :mushroom2:



Ha I figured but fuck one never knows how weird they're coming off... seriously ive said some shit then come back and read it like who the fuck wrote that garbage lol
I never said mushrooms made me smarter lol.

Quote:

goslugsgo said:
I assume the studies are using psychedelic-naive subjects and 5g doses.

Seems reasonable to me that giving such doses to people who have no idea what they're in for or no skills in managing negativity and bad thought loops will result in a pretty significant number of trips going south in a big way.



As for their dosing I find it highly unlikely they're giving mushrooms at all.  More than likely psilocybin extract and probably at what us psychonauts would call a relatively moderate dose probably around a 2.5 gram dose.  They don't want to cause people to wig out.


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InvisibleLion of Ragnarok
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Re: John Hopkins researcher said 1/3rd experienced bad trips [Re: Steveinshell]
    #25433214 - 09/03/18 04:41 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Steveinshell said:Ha I figured but fuck one never knows how weird they're coming off... seriously ive said some shit then come back and read it like who the fuck wrote that garbage lol
I never said mushrooms made me smarter lol.




lmao


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Offlinebishlap
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Re: John Hopkins researcher said 1/3rd experienced bad trips [Re: Lion of Ragnarok]
    #25433232 - 09/03/18 04:53 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Tripping while being studied? I would guess I'm approaching 100 mushroom trips and have only had 1 bad one.

I'm surprised more people didn't have a rough time while likely tripping their asses of and being asked formulaic questions and very likely subjected to conditions that were put in place to try to incite a reaction.

Honestly I don't know what I'm talking about just feeding off the resulting posts.could you link what you read?


--------------------
"If you're not worried that you took way
to much, you didn't take enough" -
Terrence McKenna

There is no soul, only the ego dies.
The body was never yours.


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Offlinefeevers
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Re: John Hopkins researcher said 1/3rd experienced bad trips [Re: bishlap] * 1
    #25433246 - 09/03/18 05:03 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

1/3 of people (in America, at least) also believe that the bible is the exact word of God, that gay people can choose to become straight, and that global warming is natural and not at all influenced by humans.

Sometimes statistics, especially on a subjective matter like tripping, are more or less meaningless to you as an individual.


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: John Hopkins researcher said 1/3rd experienced bad trips [Re: Shrrrooms]
    #25434241 - 09/04/18 02:56 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Uhm, people who've never tripped have no idea what the so-called "bad trip" can be like - and people who've never tripped before might easily confuse the comeup with some sort of "bad trip" - which is isn't - just confusing for a while.

Also people who continue to trip over time know what to expect so they can give you a correct reading.

For myself, over a thousand mushroom trips and I'd say maybe 1 in 100 qualifies as having aspects of "bad trip" mojo, where shit just goes sideways out of the blue and takes you to the hellish realms without asking if you wanted to go there.  But you get through those by just riding it out, same as any other heavy trip, and it improves you just the same in the end.


--------------------


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InvisibleBill_Oreilly
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Re: John Hopkins researcher said 1/3rd experienced bad trips [Re: Shrrrooms]
    #25434334 - 09/04/18 06:26 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Shrrrooms said:
According to a book I was reading.  I found this surprising since the overalll results were so positive. Does this statistic sound right based on the experience of people on this forum? Could they have been talking about the uncomfortable phase people go through early in the experience? If correct, how would this compare with LSD bad trips?




If that's true it may destroy our hope of having decriminalized or medicinal psychedelics


--------------------
Something there is mysteriously formed,
Existing before Heaven and Earth,
Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging,
All-pervading, unfailing,
I do not know its name; I call it tao.
If forced to give it a name, I call it
Great (ta). Being great, it flows out;
Flowing out means far-reaching;
Being far-reaching, it is said to return.


It's just a shot away..


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OfflineSabnock
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Re: John Hopkins researcher said 1/3rd experienced bad trips [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
    #25435027 - 09/04/18 02:47 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

You can add Lemon Balm to your Psychedelic (though i'm not sure about LSD just yet), and reduce the risk of a bad trip, i've never had a bad trip with Lemon Balm in the mix, and i work with Aya/oral DMT, smooths out that intense come up really nicely.


--------------------


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Offlineheatlessbbq
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Re: John Hopkins researcher said 1/3rd experienced bad trips [Re: Sabnock]
    #25435038 - 09/04/18 02:51 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

LSD's onset/s and plateau/s can be rather intense and overwhelming; depending on the dosage.

LSD is infinitely, famous for It's "more comfortable" and easier to handle coming down effects.


Edited by heatlessbbq (09/04/18 02:52 PM)


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InvisibleBill_Oreilly
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Re: John Hopkins researcher said 1/3rd experienced bad trips [Re: Sabnock]
    #25435208 - 09/04/18 04:35 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Sabnock said:
You can add Lemon Balm to your Psychedelic (though i'm not sure about LSD just yet), and reduce the risk of a bad trip, i've never had a bad trip with Lemon Balm in the mix, and i work with Aya/oral DMT, smooths out that intense come up really nicely.






Does it decrease the intensity of the trip overall?


--------------------
Something there is mysteriously formed,
Existing before Heaven and Earth,
Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging,
All-pervading, unfailing,
I do not know its name; I call it tao.
If forced to give it a name, I call it
Great (ta). Being great, it flows out;
Flowing out means far-reaching;
Being far-reaching, it is said to return.


It's just a shot away..


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OfflineSabnock
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Re: John Hopkins researcher said 1/3rd experienced bad trips [Re: Bill_Oreilly] * 1
    #25435241 - 09/04/18 04:55 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Bill_Oreilly said:
Quote:

Sabnock said:
You can add Lemon Balm to your Psychedelic (though i'm not sure about LSD just yet), and reduce the risk of a bad trip, i've never had a bad trip with Lemon Balm in the mix, and i work with Aya/oral DMT, smooths out that intense come up really nicely.






Does it decrease the intensity of the trip overall?




It reduces intensity of the come up, but not the power of the experience, also reduces anxiety, panic, fear, smoothing out the come up while still allowing the "good stuff" to be experienced. I do wanna try to find something that won't affect the intensity but helps calm the mind, i'm sure it's possible, but i'm fine with reduced intensity, particularly with oral DMT, whereas Psilocin is pretty gentle for me anyways.

I usually use 3 to 4 grams of dried Lemon Balm leaf made into a tea, but if you use 2 grams there can still be some intensity ime.

Lemon Balm contains Rosmarinic Acid which is likely the active compound but i'm sure other compounds in Lemon Balm contribute, but Rosmarinic Acid inhibits GABA-Transaminase and raises GABA levels a bit, enough to really smooth things out, also inhibits Acetylcholinesterase which raises Acetylcholine and can help with memory and learning so it can add some Nootropic-like effects to the mix, i think.

In fact, most of my spiritual/mystical experiences, and the precognitive vision i had about my dad's death, i had Lemon Balm in the mix, so it definitely doesn't seem to hold much back except for the intensity during the come up and the fear/panic and such.


--------------------


Edited by Sabnock (09/04/18 05:03 PM)


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OfflineOne Eye mike
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Re: John Hopkins researcher said 1/3rd experienced bad trips [Re: Sabnock]
    #25435285 - 09/04/18 05:27 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

I've been following John Hopkins studies for some time and it is one of the reasons I came to this forum.
  In another study people with cancer were given small doses of actual mushrooms only once, and it eased their anxiety about the cancer diagnosis.
John Hopkins has numerous studies and most have had positive results with minimal issues, so there is still hope for a positive outcome.  Look how long is has taken for marijuana.


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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> The Psychedelic Experience

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