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OfflineEchoVortex
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Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 859
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Rice: Claim vs. Fact
    #2542835 - 04/09/04 11:13 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

A nice little fact-check of Condi's bullshit answers.

http://www.americanprogress.org/site/pp.asp?c=biJRJ8OVF&b=44918
April 8, 2004

Planes as Weapons

CLAIM: "I do not remember any reports to us, a kind of strategic warning, that planes might be used as weapons." [responding to Kean]

FACT: Condoleezza Rice was the top National Security official with President Bush at the July 2001 G-8 summit in Genoa. There, "U.S. officials were warned that Islamic terrorists might attempt to crash an airliner" into the summit, prompting officials to "close the airspace over Genoa and station antiaircraft guns at the city's airport." [Sources: Los Angeles Times, 9/27/01; White House release, 7/22/01]

CLAIM: "I was certainly not aware of [intelligence reports about planes as missiles] at the time that I spoke" in 2002. [responding to Kean]

FACT: While Rice may not have been aware of the 12 separate and explicit warnings about terrorists using planes as weapons when she made her denial in 2002, she did know about them when she wrote her March 22, 2004 Washington Post op-ed. In that piece, she once again repeated the claim there was no indication "that terrorists were preparing to attack the homeland using airplanes as missiles." [Source: Washington Post, 3/22/04]

August 6 PDB

CLAIM: There was "nothing about the threat of attack in the U.S." in the Presidential Daily Briefing the President received on August 6th. [responding to Ben Veniste]

FACT: Rice herself confirmed that "the title [of the PDB] was, 'Bin Laden Determined to Attack Inside the United States.'" [Source: Condoleezza Rice, 4/8/04]

Domestic Threat

CLAIM: "One of the problems was there was really nothing that look like was going to happen inside the United States...Almost all of the reports focused on al-Qaida activities outside the United States, especially in the Middle East and North Africa...We did not have...threat information that was in any way specific enough to suggest something was coming in the United States." [responding to Gorelick]

FACT: Page 204 of the Joint Congressional Inquiry into 9/11 noted that "In May 2001, the intelligence community obtained a report that Bin Laden supporters were planning to infiltrate the United States" to "carry out a terrorist operation using high explosives." The report "was included in an intelligence report for senior government officials in August [2001]." In the same month, the Pentagon "acquired and shared with other elements of the Intelligence Community information suggesting that seven persons associated with Bin Laden had departed various locations for Canada, the United Kingdom, and the United States." [Sources: Joint Congressional Report, 12/02]

CLAIM: "If we had known an attack was coming against the United States...we would have moved heaven and earth to stop it." [responding to Roemer]

FACT: Rice admits that she was told that "an attack was coming." She said, "Let me read you some of the actual chatter that was picked up in that spring and summer: Unbelievable news coming in weeks, said one. Big event -- there will be a very, very, very, very big uproar. There will be attacks in the near future." [Source: Condoleezza Rice, 4/8/04]

Cheney Counterterrorism Task Force

CLAIM: "The Vice President was, a little later in, I think, in May, tasked by the President to put together a group to look at all of the recommendations that had been made about domestic preparedness and all of the questions associated with that." [responding to Fielding]

FACT: The Vice President's task force never once convened a meeting. In the same time period, the Vice President convened at least 10 meetings of his energy task force, and six meetings with Enron executives. [Source: Washington Post, 1/20/02; GAO Report, 8/03]

Principals Meetings

CLAIM: "The CSG (Counterterrorism Security Group) was made up of not junior people, but the top level of counterterrorism experts. Now, they were in contact with their principals." [responding to Fielding]

FACT: "Many of the other people at the CSG-level, and the people who were brought to the table from the domestic agencies, were not telling their principals. Secretary Mineta, the secretary of transportation, had no idea of the threat. The administrator of the FAA, responsible for security on our airlines, had no idea." [Source: 9/11 Commissioner Jamie Gorelick, 4/8/04]

Previous Administration

CLAIM: "The decision that we made was to, first of all, have no drop-off in what the Clinton administration was doing, because clearly they had done a lot of work to deal with this very important priority." [responding to Kean]

FACT: Internal government documents show that while the Clinton Administration officially prioritized counterterrorism as a "Tier One" priority, but when the Bush Administration took office, top officials downgraded counterterrorism. As the Washington Post reported, these documents show that before Sept. 11 the Bush Administration "did not give terrorism top billing." Rice admitted that "we decided to take a different track" than the Clinton Administration in protecting America. [Source: Internal government documents, 1998-2001; Washington Post, 3/22/04; Rice testimony, 4/8/04]

FBI

CLAIM: The Bush Administration has been committed to the "transformation of the FBI into an agency dedicated to fighting terror." [responding to Kean]

FACT: Before 9/11, Attorney General John Ashcroft de-emphasized counterterrorism at the FBI, in favor of more traditional law enforcement. And according to the Washington Post, "in the early days after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, the Bush White House cut by nearly two-thirds an emergency request for counterterrorism funds by the FBI, an internal administration budget document shows." And according to a new report by the Congressional Research Service, "numerous confidential law enforcement and intelligence sources who challenge the FBI's claim that it has successfully retooled itself to gather critical intelligence on terrorists as well as fight crime." [Source: Washington Post, 3/22/04; Congressional Quarterly, 4/6/04]

CLAIM: "The FBI issued at least three nationwide warnings to federal, state and law enforcement agencies and specifically stated that, although the vast majority of the information indicated overseas targets, attacks against the homeland could not be ruled out. The FBI tasked all 56 of its U.S. field offices to increase surveillance of known suspects of terrorists and to reach out to known informants who might have information on terrorist activities." [responding to Gorelick]

FACT: The warnings are "feckless. They don't tell anybody anything. They don't bring anyone to battle stations." [Source: 9/11 Commissioner Jamie Gorelick, 4/8/04]

Homeland Security

CLAIM: "I think that having a Homeland Security Department that can bring together the FAA and the INS and Customs and all of the various agencies is a very important step." [responding to Hamilton]

FACT: The White House vehemently opposed the creation of the Department of Homeland security. Its opposition to the concept delayed the creation of the department by months.

CLAIM: "We have created a threat terrorism information center, the TTIC, which does bring together all of the sources of information from all of the intelligence agencies -- the FBI and the Department of Homeland Security and the INS and the CIA and the DIA -- so that there's one place where all of this is coming together." [responding to Fielding]

FACT: "Knowledgeable sources complain that the president's new Terrorist Threat Integration Center, which reports to CIA Director George Tenet rather than to Ridge, has created more of a moat than a bridge. The ability to spot the nation's weakest points was going to make Homeland Security different, recalled one person involved in the decision to set up TTIC. But now, the person said, 'that whole effort has been gutted by the White House creation of TTIC, [which] has served little more than to give the appearance of progress.'"? [Source: National Journal, 3/6/04]
IRAQ-9/11

CLAIM: "There was a discussion of Iraq. I think it was raised by Don Rumsfeld. It was pressed a bit by Paul Wolfowitz."

FACT: Rice's statement confirms previous proof that the Administration was focusing on Iraq immediately after 9/11, despite having no proof that Iraq was involved in the attack. Rice's statement also contradicts her previous denials in which she claimed "Iraq was to the side" immediately after 9/11. She made this denial despite the President signing "a 2-and-a-half-page document marked 'TOP SECRET'" six days after 9/11 that "directed the Pentagon to begin planning military options for an invasion of Iraq." [Source: Condoleezza Rice, 3/22/04, 3/22/04; Washington Post, 1/12/03]

CLAIM: "Given that this was a global war on terror, should we look not just at Afghanistan but should we look at doing something against Iraq?"

FACT: The Administration has not produced one shred of evidence that Iraq had an operational relationship with Al Qaeda, or that Iraq had anything to do with the 9/11 attacks on America. In fact, a U.S. Army War College report said that the war in Iraq has been a diversion that has drained key resources from the more imminent War on Terror. Just this week, USA Today reported that "in 2002, troops from the 5th Special Forces Group who specialize in the Middle East were pulled out of the hunt for Osama bin Laden in Afghanistan to prepare for their next assignment: Iraq." Sen. Bob Graham (D-FL) confirmed this, noting in February of 2002, a senior military commander told him "We are moving military and intelligence personnel and resources out of Afghanistan to get ready for a future war in Iraq." [Sources: CNN, 1/13/04; USA Today, 3/28/04; Sen. Bob Graham (D-FL), 3/26/04]

War on Terror

CLAIM: After 9/11, "the President put states on notice if they were sponsoring terrorists."

FACT: The President continues to say Saudi Arabia is "our friend" despite their potential ties to terrorists. As the LA Times reported, "the 27 classified pages of a congressional report about Sept. 11 depict a Saudi government that not only provided significant money and aid to the suicide hijackers but also allowed potentially hundreds of millions of dollars to flow to Al Qaeda and other terrorist groups through suspect charities and other fronts." Just this week, Newsweek reported "within weeks of the September 11 terror attacks, security officers at the Fleet National Bank in Boston had identified 'suspicious' wire transfers from the Saudi Embassy in Washington that eventually led to the discovery of an active Al Qaeda 'sleeper cell' that may have been planning follow-up attacks inside the United States." [Source: LA Times, 8/2/03; CNN, 11/23/02; Newsweek, 4/7/04]

?


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Rice: Claim vs. Fact [Re: EchoVortex]
    #2542859 - 04/09/04 11:25 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Please don't confuse us with the facts, they do little to thwart Pavlovian expressions of nationalism and only serve to make you the target of aspersions such as being 'soft on terrorism' or a 'traitor.'


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Rice: Claim vs. Fact [Re: EchoVortex]
    #2543082 - 04/09/04 01:12 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I think people must have thought I was crazy
yesterday screaming at my fucking radio in
rush hour traffic on the 405.

her testimony was simply maddening.


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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Invisibleadrug

Registered: 02/04/03
Posts: 15,800
Re: Rice: Claim vs. Fact [Re: afoaf]
    #2543328 - 04/09/04 02:30 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I was actually kind of surprised, she did a horrible job. And if you noticed, whenever she is confronted with a question she doesn't like, she tends to shake her head no almost uncontrollably when she's answering it. I noticed this on a tv news interview the other day also.


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OfflineEchoVortex
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Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 859
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Re: Rice: Claim vs. Fact [Re: adrug]
    #2543396 - 04/09/04 02:43 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

adrug said:
I was actually kind of surprised, she did a horrible job. And if you noticed, whenever she is confronted with a question she doesn't like, she tends to shake her head no almost uncontrollably when she's answering it. I noticed this on a tv news interview the other day also.




Interesting observation.

It may actually be the case that she is naturally an honest person, and so the action of lying sends her body into nervous spasms.

At least when George "Nero" Bush lies during his own testimony, he'll be able to claim later that he wasn't under oath. Alas we have Bill "Caligula" Clinton to thank for teaching him that particular lesson.

Wheee . . . . watch that empire decline and fall . . .


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: Rice: Claim vs. Fact [Re: adrug]
    #2543800 - 04/09/04 03:58 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

adrug said:
I was actually kind of surprised, she did a horrible job. And if you noticed, whenever she is confronted with a question she doesn't like, she tends to shake her head no almost uncontrollably when she's answering it. I noticed this on a tv news interview the other day also.




I noticed that when she's under pressure she, just like Bush, starts smiling as she speaks. By smiling she's trying to make you believe that she's so confident in what she's saying that she feels it's almost ridiculous for her to have to answer it.






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Mp3 of the month: The Loose Enz - The Black Door



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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Rice: Claim vs. Fact [Re: EchoVortex]
    #2543921 - 04/09/04 04:46 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

You know, there are an awful lot of reports that say alot of things might happen that haven't happened yet.


We should make airplanes illegal, also nobody should be allowed in or out of America ever again.


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: Rice: Claim vs. Fact [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2543948 - 04/09/04 04:53 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Could the bombers have been stopped? NEWSWEEK has learned that while U.S. intelligence received no specific warning, the state of alert had been high during the past two weeks, and a particularly urgent warning may have been received the night before the attacks, causing some top Pentagon brass to cancel a trip. Why that same information was not available to the 266 people who died aboard the four hijacked commercial aircraft may become a hot topic on the Hill.




Link


Why did some top pentagon brass cancel a trip the night before 9-11, BH? Wouldn't you need to be fairly certain that something was going to happen in order to canel a flight? Or do you think that that's something that happens all of the time?






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Mp3 of the month: The Loose Enz - The Black Door



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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Rice: Claim vs. Fact [Re: Learyfan]
    #2543983 - 04/09/04 05:02 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

So the military folks thought that they were the targets, not the WTC?

What would have been the appropriate action to take during a general high alert period? How common were these high alert periods? What percentage of the time was alert considered to be high? What were the reasons for the current high alert state? Was it just a "high chatter level"? WTF does that mean anyway?


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: Rice: Claim vs. Fact [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2544006 - 04/09/04 05:10 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Anytime it?s unsafe for government agents to fly, it should be shared with the general public.




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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Rice: Claim vs. Fact [Re: Learyfan]
    #2544578 - 04/09/04 08:27 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Anyone who hasn't already watched it should watch the Frontline episode entitled "The Man Who Knew". Excellent stuff:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/knew/view/


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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OfflineEchoVortex
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Re: Rice: Claim vs. Fact [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2545661 - 04/10/04 02:27 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

What harm would it have done to warn the FAA that the threat existed?

What harm would it have done to put airport and airline security on heightened alert?

What harm would it have done to put air marshals in place before 9/11?

What harm would it have done to have armed fighters ready to scramble?


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


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Re: Rice: Claim vs. Fact [Re: EchoVortex]
    #2545978 - 04/10/04 07:20 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

You missed some of the most obvious....

What harm would it have done to have had reinforced cockpit doors.
What harm would it have done to have had armed pilots?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineEchoVortex
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Re: Rice: Claim vs. Fact [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2546073 - 04/10/04 08:58 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

You're right. Thanks.


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