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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Tower of Babel * 1
    #25367845 - 08/05/18 10:52 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Every day I read the New York Times to discover more evidence that increasingly fewer people care enough to speak the same language, that cross-talk and nose prevail, and the connections that keep together this amazing tower seem to be dissolving into factions of insanity.



I am concerned about plagues - as the anti-vaccination movement sweeps through vast swaths of the population. Science without clear terms and evidence based understanding becomes impossible, people have stopped using words and language coherently.

World Leaders are speaking and tweeting gobbledygoop, a reflection of the end of world celebratory cacophony. This pure failure of language unravels the efforts against global warming, and all aspects of livable environment.

I am worried about suicides - overdoses - competition and mega-doses, denial of life's potential. The path of conspicuous consumption - including that of visionary products - is a disaster.



And how about our data footprints, what we look at and the traces of our selves that we leave behind in the web, these residue which we leave are chasing us and eroding any sense of safety and privacy. In some ways these babeling data traces may be the only forces holding the machine built tower together in our descent into blithering idiocy.


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InvisibleFerdinando
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Re: Tower of Babel [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25367926 - 08/05/18 11:53 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

make a video game where we can see how much we can pollute without the world ending
it would be possible to adjust all the factors the contribute to global warming and chose the best way and at least a way that makes it possible for at to be the next ice age
at some point we have to stop polluting if the cost is to live as we did when we started making corn fields.


Edited by Ferdinando (08/05/18 01:51 PM)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Tower of Babel [Re: Ferdinando]
    #25368644 - 08/05/18 07:03 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

good idea


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InvisibleFerdinando
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Re: Tower of Babel [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25369314 - 08/06/18 03:29 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

yes thanks


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maybe just meaning as much to it as possible
and anti-meaning as little to it as possible


Edited by Ferdinando (08/07/18 08:10 AM)


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InvisibleFerdinando
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Re: Tower of Babel [Re: Ferdinando]
    #25369398 - 08/06/18 05:54 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

but yeah I agree with my friend
yesterday it was like the sense of safety was gone
what can you do
but I have recovered from error and it was like the coffe was actually there and that life was lovely
certainlyt no harm is a goal

I had a really good time in 2014

I think we should stop the violence and have fewer kids so we don't pollute

I have done a lot of work on myself and been in contact with the greatest man alive and I have found out that the subject the arth and it lasting till the next ice age is a big thing



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maybe just meaning as much to it as possible
and anti-meaning as little to it as possible


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OfflineLion
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Re: Tower of Babel [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25370552 - 08/06/18 06:36 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

This reflects very well the specific flavor of meaninglessness I am feeling these days.

I saw The Tower card mentioned as a symbol for the necessary violence in spiritual awakening. I try not to dwell on those lines of thinking.

My lack of ability and desire to expand on the above thoughts is probably symptomatic of what you're talking about. I just wanted to leave some smudges here in this thread, since I'd seen that particular card recently in a context I could relate to.


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“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Tower of Babel [Re: Lion]
    #25371750 - 08/07/18 08:34 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

that is the bestway to look at it - as an opportunity to clarify/purify.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Tower of Babel [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25373220 - 08/07/18 08:59 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Real meaningful communication seems to be a rarity.
Seems the purpose of everyday 'small talk', is actually to avoid intimacy.
Then of course much talk has an agenda, such as advertising, & media news.
And much talk is argumentative and attempts to drown out the 'other' side.
And real science at the level of science journals is not comprehensible to the 'average' person.
Also many activities people engage in allow little room for anything of real interest to be said.

So it seems perhaps what you are calling 'bable' is actually the default mode. Hence finding a true friend is something special.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Tower of Babel [Re: laughingdog]
    #25373629 - 08/07/18 11:59 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

very likely it is default mode and always was, nature is crazy!


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Offlinefeevers
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Re: Tower of Babel [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25373670 - 08/08/18 12:24 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

I think we're in a weird situation.

We have the illusion of safety and security in our life, with our money, our homes, our future plans etc. We've lost touch with the absolute fragility of life... the reality that one misstep and it's gone forever.

Sure, statistically we're less likely to die young than in the past, but there's not exactly a shortage of outliers.

We've altered ourselves and how we communicate to maintain this false pretense of safety. To fit in and not offend in the society that sustains us.

We live and speak dishonestly to maintain what we have. Whether it's holdings back words at work or simply not being outside of the white house screaming about how corporate America is literally poisoning us and our children, we've all sold out to maintain the illusion. It drains our spirit every day.

Speaking honestly is scary, possibly dangerous even.

Perhaps giving it all up and dissolving the illusion would be the better route.


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Re: Tower of Babel [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25373838 - 08/08/18 02:45 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

next thing you know you're listening to some guy and his holy homeless advisor talking about infiltrating the us intelligence community

im gonna take 2 feet of cacti to the face next week and do my best to operate a camera...sometime it takes mega efforts from ordinary men under extraordinary circumstances


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I have considered such matters.

SIKE


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OfflineCherk
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Re: Tower of Babel [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25373853 - 08/08/18 02:57 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

I try to make thoughtful posts but I just can't do it.

I was gonna say something about the developed world being in a period of decadence and that we could learn a thing or two from russia when it comes to dealing with hooliganism


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I have considered such matters.

SIKE


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Tower of Babel [Re: Cherk]
    #25374306 - 08/08/18 09:00 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Russian towers are constantly falling - it is the baseline there and always has been, the culture abhors continuity.

There are 35 different languages which are considered official languages in various regions of Russia, along with Russian. There are over 100 minority languages spoken in Russia today.

Putin, therefore, is the leader of modern Babylon, and it is coming here fast.

In the meantime, while English is the language of science, many words are inconsistently used and understood; and formatted jargon replaces understandable technical writing.

I guess it is really about the familiar that is threatened by change, and the tower idea is that even when foundations are built on solid consent, as time goes on and the height progresses, we enter less and less familiar territory.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Tower of Babel [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25375704 - 08/08/18 08:53 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

And then there is the factor of time.
For example:
William Shakespeare 1564 -1616
is barely comprehensible today
in about 400 years English itself has changed a lot.
Every generation invents new slang and jargon,
and of course technology changes the world,
so new words are necessary, and old ones retired -
perhaps not so surprising, just another example of impermanence.
In another 400 years, (should there still be humans)
Shakespeare will be still more obscure.

Also from time to time I see articles
about the rate at which languages
are being lost.
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=rate+at+which+languages+are+being+lost&t=he&ia=web

for example at:

https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2013/04/15/dying_languages_scientists_fret_as_one_disappears_every_14_days.html

..."As many as half of the world’s 7,000 languages are expected to be extinct by the end of this century; it is estimated that one language dies out every 14 days." ...


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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: Tower of Babel [Re: laughingdog]
    #25375745 - 08/08/18 09:05 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:
And then there is the factor of time.
For example:
William Shakespeare 1564 -1616
is barely comprehensible today
in about 400 years English itself has changed a lot.
Every generation invents new slang and jargon,
and of course technology changes the world,
so new words are necessary, and old ones retired -
perhaps not so surprising, just another example of impermanence.
In another 400 years, (should there still be humans)
Shakespeare will be still more obscure.

Also from time to time I see articles
about the rate at which languages
are being lost.
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=rate+at+which+languages+are+being+lost&t=he&ia=web

for example at:

https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2013/04/15/dying_languages_scientists_fret_as_one_disappears_every_14_days.html

..."As many as half of the world’s 7,000 languages are expected to be extinct by the end of this century; it is estimated that one language dies out every 14 days." ...




I wonder what Nietzsche was on about when he wrote "Is Hamlet understood?"

"The largest cluster of Nietzsche’s comments on Shakespeare appears during his preparations for The Birth of Tragedy in 1870-71. In the final version of the book, Nietzsche mentions Shakespeare four times, but does not offer any substantial discussion of the author. His preparatory notes, however, clearly indicate that throughout the planning stages of The Birth of Tragedy, Nietzsche had intended to devote an entire chapter to Shakespeare, in which Shakespeare was to serve as a bridge between the spirit of the great ancient Greek playwrights and Wagner2. Curiously, however, this chapter never made it into the final version of The Birth of Tragedy3."-Katie Brennan link


Edited by Buster_Brown (08/08/18 09:49 PM)


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Tower of Babel [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #25375901 - 08/08/18 10:16 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

I am neither a student of Nietzsche or Shakespeare, so I have no idea.
Nor am I  knowledgeable in regards to the great ancient Greek playwrights or Wagner.
Perhaps an interesting question though.


Edited by laughingdog (08/08/18 10:19 PM)


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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: Tower of Babel [Re: laughingdog]
    #25375929 - 08/08/18 10:35 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Perhaps the Dionysian perspective of ritual madness and the eternal return of tragedy is pertinent to this topic.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Tower of Babel [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #25376527 - 08/09/18 08:06 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

must we make war when we can no longer communicate?
i.e. does the tower of babel become a tower of battle?


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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: Tower of Babel [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25376591 - 08/09/18 09:06 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

must we




Subjective preference, fueled by popular demand and filial considerations, results in the conditions around us.


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InvisibleFerdinando
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Re: Tower of Babel [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #25376621 - 08/09/18 09:24 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

we take for granted that we must be awake no matter how we do


--------------------
maybe just meaning as much to it as possible
and anti-meaning as little to it as possible


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