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 NorthernKronic
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Registered: 05/23/18
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 Unmodified Monotubs- To colonize or go directly into fruiting- Side by side grow   1
#25360082 - 08/01/18 11:53 AM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
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Hi yall!
In this thread I want to discuss the pro's and cons of going directly into fruiting conditions at spawning vs. leaving your lid on but unlatched for colonization of the bulk substrate (coir in my case).
What I am interested in is how this variable effects the following:
-Time to pinning from time of spawning
-Density of pinset
- Ease of upkeep (how much misting or lid adjustment I do for proper surface conditions).
-Time to consolidation for the substrate.
-Quality of overall fruiting.
I currently have one culture (PE 1024B) that was spawned to two identical unmodified monotubs (sterilite 54qt Weathertite, exact tub in bods Tek). Each started with 4qts of clean spawn (MSS>Agar>Two transfers>Grain>G2G) and 650-670g of Coir cooked overnight per Bods EasyAF Bucket Tek (just over 4qts of boiling water to reach field capacity).
The two bins were spawned 24hrs apart from each other, the first on 7-29 and the second on 7-30 respectively. Lets start the pictures at 48hrs from spawning.
Consolidating tub at 48hrs:
Direct to Fruiting tub at 48hrs:
Consolidating tub at 72hrs:
Direct to Fruiting tub at 72hrs:
Consolidating Tub at 96hrs:
Direct to Fruiting tub at 96hrs:
Consolidating Tub at 120hrs:
Direct to Fruiting tub at 120hrs:
Consolidating Tub at 144hrs:
Direct to Fruiting at 144hrs:
Consolidating tub at 168hrs:
Direct to fruiting tub at 168hrs:
As the two bins were spawned 24hrs apart updates will happen daily. Let me know your thoughts or any other info you would like on my setup. Temps outside have been in the mid 90's for the last 10 or so days (the lab has been fluctuating between 75f at night up to 84f during the heat of the day) Picking up an AC in the next week so that I can get my temps within a constant 3-4f range.
Thanks yall,
-N.Kron
Edit-
This culture was created by going MSS>Agar>4 transfers>GrainMaster>G2G 8 quarts>4qts per mono with coir psudocasing.
Consolidating tub had its lid flipped on 8-6 after reaching more than 85% colonization. (168hrs approx)
Updates will now come every few days until pinning starts.
Edited by NorthernKronic (08/06/18 10:33 AM)
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 Newbie8998
Registered: 06/22/18
Posts: 138
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Re: Unmodified Monotubs- To colonize or go directly into fruiting- Side by side grow [Re: NorthernKronic]
#25360126 - 08/01/18 12:20 PM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
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Good idea I’m interested in what you find out!
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NorthernKronic
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Re: Unmodified Monotubs- To colonize or go directly into fruiting- Side by side grow [Re: Newbie8998]
#25360371 - 08/01/18 02:31 PM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Newbie8998 said:
Good idea I’m interested in what you find out!
Thanks, me too!!
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NorthernKronic
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Re: Unmodified Monotubs- To colonize or go directly into fruiting- Side by side grow [Re: NorthernKronic]
#25361972 - 08/02/18 11:09 AM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
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Here is an update from this morning:
Consolidating tub at 72hrs:
Direct to fruiting tub at 96hrs:
-N.Kron
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pixelpopper
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Re: Unmodified Monotubs- To colonize or go directly into fruiting- Side by side grow [Re: NorthernKronic]
#25362020 - 08/02/18 11:34 AM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
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I am currently doing some experimentation myself.
What I've found under my current environmental conditions (hot) is that if I let a tub colonize before introducing FAE via lid flipping/gaps it pretty much always becomes over-colonized on the top surface, and ends up eventually matting and although knots will form, the pinning is shit and results in poor flushes.
Introducing FAE immediately via lid flipping/gaps prevents this from happening, and I get better pinsets all over the surface.
Additionally, if I add a top layer of coir / pseudo-casing, this seems to help with this issue.
I may actually start even patching up areas on the surface with additional coir, because I've noticed consistently now that I get clusters of pins wherever there is still coir showing, and areas where its all myc there are either no pins are just randomly scattered ones instead of clusters.
I was all aboard the no top layer needed train, but now I am taking a step back after repeatedly getting the same results described above 
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NorthernKronic
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Re: Unmodified Monotubs- To colonize or go directly into fruiting- Side by side grow [Re: pixelpopper]
#25367390 - 08/04/18 11:23 PM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
pixelpopper said:
I am currently doing some experimentation myself.
What I've found under my current environmental conditions (hot) is that if I let a tub colonize before introducing FAE via lid flipping/gaps it pretty much always becomes over-colonized on the top surface, and ends up eventually matting and although knots will form, the pinning is shit and results in poor flushes.
Introducing FAE immediately via lid flipping/gaps prevents this from happening, and I get better pinsets all over the surface.
Additionally, if I add a top layer of coir / pseudo-casing, this seems to help with this issue.
I may actually start even patching up areas on the surface with additional coir, because I've noticed consistently now that I get clusters of pins wherever there is still coir showing, and areas where its all myc there are either no pins are just randomly scattered ones instead of clusters.
I was all aboard the no top layer needed train, but now I am taking a step back after repeatedly getting the same results described above
Hey Pixelpopper,
It certainly seems that the direct to fruiting conditions tub has moved faster to full colonization, but I seem to be having an issue with the heat outside (over 90f and no ac in the house until next week). The direct to fruiting tubs seem to be drying out on the top of the sub much faster, its visible in the 144hrs picture. I have started misting the DTF tub twice a day since the 96hr mark or there about.
I do a psudocasing of coco at the time of spawning also. Whats intriguing to me about colonizing with the lid on normal is how much more moisture is being left in the coir vs DTF. I think it will make the colonizing bin much more hands off once I hit full colonization which looks like tomorrow at some point.
Thanks for your input, should be interesting over the next couple weeks to see how these pinsets come out.
-N.Kron
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pixelpopper
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Re: Unmodified Monotubs- To colonize or go directly into fruiting- Side by side grow [Re: NorthernKronic]
#25367440 - 08/05/18 12:30 AM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
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I feel ya on the heat
Its one of the reasons I've been experimenting with continuing to add fresh coir to the top as needed. Helps hold moisture in, and you can also mist the coir and its more forgiving than misting the colonized sub directly.
I believe it also helps create a proper micro-climate for pin formation, similar to how you will see side pins form when the surface is not good - this keeps your surface good.
But it does require attention to conditions and obviously would not always be beneficial if its not needed
I find in these hot temps, my tubs like plenty of FAE and I leave my lids off or widely gapped for long periods, which makes the coir layer very helpful
Edited by pixelpopper (08/05/18 12:32 AM)
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sMileHighCity
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Re: Unmodified Monotubs- To colonize or go directly into fruiting- Side by side grow [Re: NorthernKronic]
#25367441 - 08/05/18 12:31 AM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
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Have the fruiting tubs been misted?
Also, Opening the 'fruiting' tubs to even take pictures, isn't that going to give them FAE they would need to start fruiting conditions?
Thanks
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verum subsequentis
seeker of truth
 
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Re: Unmodified Monotubs- To colonize or go directly into fruiting- Side by side grow [Re: sMileHighCity]
#25367449 - 08/05/18 12:38 AM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
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right on, i love watching good ol science experiments unfold
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pixelpopper
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Re: Unmodified Monotubs- To colonize or go directly into fruiting- Side by side grow [Re: sMileHighCity]
#25367453 - 08/05/18 12:42 AM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
sMileHighCity said:
Also, Opening the 'fruiting' tubs to even take pictures, isn't that going to give them FAE they would need to start fruiting conditions?
Thanks
The term fruiting is used loosely in this context. When talking about tubs like these, fruiting means you have either flipped the lid or are leaving it loose with gaps
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sMileHighCity
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Re: Unmodified Monotubs- To colonize or go directly into fruiting- Side by side grow [Re: pixelpopper]
#25367476 - 08/05/18 01:05 AM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
pixelpopper said:
The term fruiting is used loosely in this context. When talking about tubs like these, fruiting means you have either flipped the lid or are leaving it loose with gaps
Roger that.
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NorthernKronic
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Re: Unmodified Monotubs- To colonize or go directly into fruiting- Side by side grow [Re: pixelpopper]
#25367992 - 08/05/18 10:37 AM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
pixelpopper said:
Quote:
sMileHighCity said:
Also, Opening the 'fruiting' tubs to even take pictures, isn't that going to give them FAE they would need to start fruiting conditions?
Thanks
The term fruiting is used loosely in this context. When talking about tubs like these, fruiting means you have either flipped the lid or are leaving it loose with gaps
When I say Direct to fruiting or DTF I just mean that the lid on the monotub was flipped upside down at the time of spawning giving them better access to FAE vs. the colonizing tub that has the lid on correctly but unlatched.
Yes the DTF or fruiting tubs began to get misted at about 96hrs from spawning.
-N.Kron
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LetsGetSchwifty
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Re: Unmodified Monotubs- To colonize or go directly into fruiting- Side by side grow [Re: NorthernKronic]
#25368003 - 08/05/18 10:44 AM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
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What a perfect comparison for people wondering about the lid flipping method
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Joekay111
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Re: Unmodified Monotubs- To colonize or go directly into fruiting- Side by side grow [Re: LetsGetSchwifty]
#25368212 - 08/05/18 01:11 PM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
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Thanks for posting this. I was wondering if your local walmart had the "gasket" ones or if you had to order. I ordered some on Amazon. Keep up updated though. Good stuff man hope it all works out for you. Im going to try the same with regular monos.
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NorthernKronic
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Re: Unmodified Monotubs- To colonize or go directly into fruiting- Side by side grow [Re: Joekay111]
#25368223 - 08/05/18 01:17 PM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
LetsGetSchwifty said:
What a perfect comparison for people wondering about the lid flipping method
Thanks, we see how it goes. Just want others to be able to see what the differences may or may not be between the two methods.
Quote:
Joekay111 said:
Thanks for posting this. I was wondering if your local walmart had the "gasket" ones or if you had to order. I ordered some on Amazon. Keep up updated though. Good stuff man hope it all works out for you. Im going to try the same with regular monos.
Walmart did not have these tubs in stock when I went there. I found the 60qt Ziplock (also gasketed just like the sterilites just 6qts larger) on amazon for around $11-$12ea when purchased in an 8pack. Shipping took over two weeks for free shipping, and they wanted an arm and a leg if I wanted them in 3-5 days. Target seems to always have the 54qt Sterilites weatherseal tubs which I prefer for around $11ea. Hope this helps.
-N.Kron
Edited by NorthernKronic (08/05/18 01:18 PM)
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verum subsequentis
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Re: Unmodified Monotubs- To colonize or go directly into fruiting- Side by side grow [Re: NorthernKronic]
#25368290 - 08/05/18 02:01 PM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
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so, this pe culture, what's it composed of? meaning ms or clone, and how many transfers in... i just ask because, in theory, even taking half of a petri to grain for one tub and the other half for the other tub could be giving you quite varied genetics.
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ttching8475
Spawn
Registered: 03/01/18
Posts: 739
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Re: Unmodified Monotubs- To colonize or go directly into fruiting- Side by side grow [Re: LetsGetSchwifty]
#25368529 - 08/05/18 03:57 PM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
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Total yield & potency comparisons would be interesting as well.
--------------------
LAGM 2.022
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NorthernKronic
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Re: Unmodified Monotubs- To colonize or go directly into fruiting- Side by side grow [Re: ttching8475]
#25368567 - 08/05/18 04:19 PM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
verum subsequentis said:
so, this pe culture, what's it composed of? meaning ms or clone, and how many transfers in... i just ask because, in theory, even taking half of a petri to grain for one tub and the other half for the other tub could be giving you quite varied genetics.
Thanks for the interest Verum. The culture is PE 1024B. Its MSS>Agar>4 transfers>GrainMaster>G2G. Each mono has 4qts of spawn to 650g coir with a psudocasing. Here is a picture of the culture after 3 transfers. I just looked and I dont have a picture of the 4th transfer dish, but it looked more even than the third transfer pic. By no way was I trying to infer that I had done any real isolation, just a cleanup of MS genetics.
I have some fruits that I will be cloning soon, a very chubby mutant pe that looks appealing to me. I'll edit in a pic of it later tonight.
Quote:
ttching8475 said:
Total yield & potency comparisons would be interesting as well.
Planning on it!
Thanks,
-N.Kron
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verum subsequentis
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Re: Unmodified Monotubs- To colonize or go directly into fruiting- Side by side grow [Re: NorthernKronic]
#25368669 - 08/05/18 05:20 PM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
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i didn't think you were implying anything. just trying to see what we are working with here so i can better understand the outcome. so, one master jar was G2Ged to eight jars and four went into each tub. I'd think this would even out the genetics pretty well.
i'll also be curious to see if one blobs more than the other.
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Joekay111
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Re: Unmodified Monotubs- To colonize or go directly into fruiting- Side by side grow [Re: verum subsequentis]
#25368718 - 08/05/18 05:52 PM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
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Tarjet it it! Thanks brother
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NorthernKronic
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Re: Unmodified Monotubs- To colonize or go directly into fruiting- Side by side grow [Re: verum subsequentis]
#25368731 - 08/05/18 06:04 PM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
verum subsequentis said:
i didn't think you were implying anything. just trying to see what we are working with here so i can better understand the outcome. so, one master jar was G2Ged to eight jars and four went into each tub. I'd think this would even out the genetics pretty well.
i'll also be curious to see if one blobs more than the other.
Yep, master> G2G into eight quart jars>Four into each mono. Time will tell if either has less or more blobs, hoping for less rather than more lol.
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NorthernKronic
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Re: Unmodified Monotubs- To colonize or go directly into fruiting- Side by side grow [Re: NorthernKronic]
#25369776 - 08/06/18 09:46 AM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
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Update-
Consolidating tub has reached over 80% colonization and is having its lid flipped today (approx 180hrs from spawning).
Here are some observations:
-The mycelium in the consolidating tub looks much more moist, fluffy and less matted than the DTF tub.
-Although the DTF tub reached full colonization 24-30hrs ahead of the consolidating tub, the myc seems more matted and the surface is considerably dryer from enviromental conditions.
-Avg temp in the house is 76-77 during the day and down to 69 at night. Relative humidity is always around 15-20% here day or night. Because of my constant low humidity Consolidating tubs may be easier on my workload as they require zero maintenance during the first week after being spawned. I suspect that because of the extra moisture saved by keeping the lid on correctly during consolidation I will have much less misting to do than on the DTF tub.
I'm interested to see if the myc in the consolidating bin will keep its fluffy/airy appearance once I flip the lid today.
Now that both bins are in fruiting conditions I will update you every couple days until I see pinsets coming in and then I will go back to daily updates.
Thanks,
-N.Kron
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pixelpopper
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Re: Unmodified Monotubs- To colonize or go directly into fruiting- Side by side grow [Re: NorthernKronic]
#25369827 - 08/06/18 10:08 AM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
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Interested to see how it goes from here for you
IME, the consolidating tub starts to become matted worse than the DTF after its fully colonized
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LetsGetSchwifty
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Re: Unmodified Monotubs- To colonize or go directly into fruiting- Side by side grow [Re: pixelpopper]
#25370022 - 08/06/18 11:48 AM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
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Can't wait for pinset!
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Oaty
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Re: Unmodified Monotubs- To colonize or go directly into fruiting- Side by side grow [Re: LetsGetSchwifty]
#25379063 - 08/10/18 07:30 AM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
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Any updates?
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NorthernKronic
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Re: Unmodified Monotubs- To colonize or go directly into fruiting- Side by side grow [Re: Oaty]
#25381618 - 08/11/18 01:13 PM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
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Update- No pins as of yet. I expect to start seeing first pins within the next day or two. My clean PE cultures have been taking around 13-14 days from spawning to show first pins. Will keep you all updated. In the mean time I have some pics of two other PE Mono's that started pinning a few days ago. Just for reference these were done DTF (Direct to Fruiting).
Not very even, but coming in pretty well. Thanks yall!
-N.Kron
Edited by NorthernKronic (08/12/18 11:43 AM)
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NorthernKronic
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Re: Unmodified Monotubs- To colonize or go directly into fruiting- Side by side grow [Re: NorthernKronic]
#25383436 - 08/12/18 11:42 AM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
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Update-
DTF mono has started pinning. It was spawned on 7-29, so that's 14 days from spawning to pinning just like clockwork. Here is a picture of the DTF mono this morning.
Here is the Colonizing tub that was spawned on 7-30. It has some primordia forming, I expect to see first pins tomorrow morning on it. If so, that would make time to pinning almost the same between both methods. We will see what it looks like in the am.
Thanks,
-N.Kron
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verum subsequentis
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Re: Unmodified Monotubs- To colonize or go directly into fruiting- Side by side grow [Re: NorthernKronic]
#25384032 - 08/12/18 04:52 PM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
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so, so far you are observing no difference at all. hmmm. we'll see what the final product turns out like though. thanks for posting this. this is my shit.
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browntonabby
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Re: Unmodified Monotubs- To colonize or go directly into fruiting- Side by side grow [Re: verum subsequentis]
#25384670 - 08/12/18 11:10 PM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
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It was my first date so i was eager and DTF, then i got hit with heat and forest fires drying up all the damn air along with my surface. A clean little shoebox and Un-modBod Tub went all matted and myc starting turning slightly yellow in just 1 day while I had to work a 13 hour shift. Temp mustve spiked in the house while it was 100 out even with the ac on but now im running a salvage mission just to see what happens. I tried to keep the sides watered but they kept pulling away from the tub. This all happened 1 day after knotting so there are a few side pins starting and one lone 3mm soldier in a wasteland of otherwise dried myc. 66qt dried up quickly even though coir was field capacity when spawned, shoebox a little less quickly but ill be trying lids on for a week next round.
unmodded 6qt shoebox and 66qt mono
GT MS > pasty agar 3 times > bod oats/tiger-drop > coir sub
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pixelpopper
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Re: Unmodified Monotubs- To colonize or go directly into fruiting- Side by side grow [Re: browntonabby]
#25384676 - 08/12/18 11:16 PM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
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If all you did was flip the lid, one hot day shouldn't result in dried up matted surface.
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NorthernKronic
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Re: Unmodified Monotubs- To colonize or go directly into fruiting- Side by side grow [Re: pixelpopper]
#25387782 - 08/14/18 01:01 PM (5 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
verum subsequentis said:
so, so far you are observing no difference at all. hmmm. we'll see what the final product turns out like though. thanks for posting this. this is my shit.
Pinning started last night in the Colonizing mono. It certainly seems as though its moving a little bit slower than the dtf mono. Pics will show you whats going down.
Quote:
browntonabby said:
It was my first date so i was eager and DTF, then i got hit with heat and forest fires drying up all the damn air along with my surface. A clean little shoebox and Un-modBod Tub went all matted and myc starting turning slightly yellow in just 1 day while I had to work a 13 hour shift. Temp mustve spiked in the house while it was 100 out even with the ac on but now im running a salvage mission just to see what happens. I tried to keep the sides watered but they kept pulling away from the tub. This all happened 1 day after knotting so there are a few side pins starting and one lone 3mm soldier in a wasteland of otherwise dried myc. 66qt dried up quickly even though coir was field capacity when spawned, shoebox a little less quickly but ill be trying lids on for a week next round.
unmodded 6qt shoebox and 66qt mono
GT MS > pasty agar 3 times > bod oats/tiger-drop > coir sub
How much water to how much coir, was it at field capacity when you spawned it? I have been dealing with really hot temps outside (and local wild fires) as well. No AC until a day or two ago. Came home a few days ago to 87f temps in the grow room, only really noticed adverse effects on very small pins (more aborts) and larger maturing fruits (softening of stipes). Focus your misting on the top of your sub rather than the sides, to ensure you have best surface conditions on the top of the sub where we want fruits. Dont get too frustrated yet, it may just pull through and suprise you. Here is a fruit that came out of a contam'd mono that I didnt think was going to produce anything... Sometimes you just have to wait and see.
Quote:
pixelpopper said:
If all you did was flip the lid, one hot day shouldn't result in dried up matted surface.
I agree...
***Update***
Pinning has started, although slowly on the colonizing mono. It was spawned on 7-30, so that's about 15 days approx to start pinning, this is a 24-36hrs slower than the DTF mono. Here is a picture of the colonizing tub from this morning.
Here is the DTF mono from this morning.
Thanks for interest ya'll, I'll have some more updates as the pinsets continue to come in.
-N.Kron
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JHOVA
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Re: Unmodified Monotubs- To colonize or go directly into fruiting- Side by side grow [Re: NorthernKronic]
#25396446 - 08/18/18 01:32 PM (5 years, 7 months ago) |
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--------------------
🅃 🄴 🄰 🄼 🄲 🄻 🄸 🄽 🄶 🅆 🅁 🄰 🄿
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MycoChris
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Re: Unmodified Monotubs- To colonize or go directly into fruiting- Side by side grow [Re: Newbie8998]
#26125527 - 08/07/19 11:46 AM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Was it 4qts boiling water for 650grams of coir or the whole 1.3kilos?
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