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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Winning hearts and minds
    #2534570 - 04/07/04 12:13 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

'40 killed' as US targets mosque

George Wright and agencies
Wednesday April 7, 2004

A US helicopter today fired three missiles at a mosque in the besieged Iraqi city of Falluja, killing as many as 40 Iraqis, according to witnesses quoted by the Associated Press.

The strike came as worshippers were gathering at the mosque for afternoon prayers. Witnesses said that the bodies of the dead and injured were rushed away in cars to private homes in the area that were served as temporary hospitals.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1187773,00.html


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Winning hearts and minds [Re: Xlea321]
    #2534607 - 04/07/04 12:26 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Remember that the fewer of "them" that there are, the fewer hearts and minds need to be won!

Seems we are doing everything possible to create new enemies so that we can get on with WWIII. This kind of shit will pull Iran, Syria and Pakistan into the conflict despite Bush's claims that this is not a Holy War and will alienate the few Muslim allies that we have remaining in the region. Way to go Bush & Co.!

Does anyone have a brain in the White House? :oogle:


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The proof is in the pudding.


Edited by Swami (04/07/04 12:59 PM)


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OfflineEkstaza
stranger thanmost
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Registered: 04/11/03
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Re: Winning hearts and minds [Re: Xlea321]
    #2534663 - 04/07/04 12:46 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

The report that I saw said that it was near a Mosque, not that the Mosque was targeted.


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YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH ANY GIVEN DRUG ISN'T THE DEFINITIVE MEASURE OF THE DRUGS EFFECTS.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Winning hearts and minds [Re: Ekstaza]
    #2534983 - 04/07/04 02:10 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I can see Muslim supporters now:" Oh our fellow worshippers were killed "near" a Mosque. We only lost brethren and not a building, therefore we feel no need to retaliate."

An occupation without the support of the people being occupied can only be "successful" by taking away more and more liberties thereby creating more "friends". (See historical Nazi occupation for a complete "How to Do It" reference.)

The complete failure of this mindset will of course be "fixed" by sending in more troops and spending more money. This money will come from the hidden tax of printing more unbacked dollars thereby devaluing everyone's savings and spending power.


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Registered: 11/27/02
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Re: Winning hearts and minds [Re: Swami]
    #2535042 - 04/07/04 02:26 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

The US should cut thier losses...who cares if iraq ends up like afghanistan right? They killed the evil tyrant and thats enough... :tongue:


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,208
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Winning hearts and minds [Re: Xlea321]
    #2535778 - 04/07/04 05:30 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

If the stories are correct and that's where the Iraqi weapons fire was coming from, the troops did the right thing. Or should we say.... Golly, that's a mosque (hospital, school, whatever), let's just let them shoot at will and not return fire.

Destroy any building where hostile fire comes from.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: Winning hearts and minds [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2535832 - 04/07/04 05:46 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

"The strike came as worshippers were gathering at the mosque for afternoon prayers. "

Hmm, whoever coordinated this operation forgot to check into muslim prayer times...i guess thier thinking stoped with "Destroy any building where hostile fire comes from. " :smirk: :shake:


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/19/00
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Re: Winning hearts and minds [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2535833 - 04/07/04 05:46 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

You miss the point entirely. These people were not against the US until local civilians were killed first a year ago. The US made them enemies.

Would you not do the same if Iraqi troops came to your town and killed you neighbor?


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,208
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Winning hearts and minds [Re: Swami]
    #2535845 - 04/07/04 05:50 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

No, it's you that misses the point. Using your example... If the Iraqis invaded the US, and some Amaericans holed up in a church and opened fire, what action do you think the Iraqis would take?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: Winning hearts and minds [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2535855 - 04/07/04 05:53 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Im betting they'd wait till sunday mass, to open fire! :laugh:


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Winning hearts and minds [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2535866 - 04/07/04 05:59 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Is it impossible for you to give a direct answer?


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,208
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Winning hearts and minds [Re: Swami]
    #2535914 - 04/07/04 06:12 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Is it impossible for you to give a direct answer?



I don't generally answer stupid questions, but no, I wouldn't run into a church and open fire. There are plenty of other buildings. and so you don't ask another stupid question, I wouldn't shoot from a school or hospital either.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Winning hearts and minds [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2535946 - 04/07/04 06:22 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

It is a stupid question to ask if a strong N.R.A. proponent would defend his neighborhood from foreign troops?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,208
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Winning hearts and minds [Re: Swami]
    #2535960 - 04/07/04 06:26 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

That's not what you asked. The answer to that is yes.

What you asked was this...
Would you not do the same if Iraqi troops came to your town and killed you neighbor?
And as I said, the answer to that is no. I would not use a building such as the one the Iraqis chose.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: Winning hearts and minds [Re: Xlea321]
    #2536090 - 04/07/04 07:06 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I know the government nevers admits to error, but bombing a mosque was a huge mistake. how would moderate Iraqis and muslims feel about this? the specific cirumstances of the incident are really irrelevant at this point. this is a war of hearts and minds and what matters is perception. the headlines in the arab press will simply read: US BOMBS MOSQUE. it's almost like they're trying to provoke a larger conflict, they're just playing into the hands of the jihadists. what a disaster.


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Offlinegrib
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Re: Winning hearts and minds [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2536140 - 04/07/04 07:32 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Destroy any building where hostile fire comes from. 




OK, lets follow your 'logic'. Say G.W. Bush is in a building and the building is taken over by terrorists. Well, the terrorists are not in a good mood and start firing at the authorities out-side. The 'luvdem logic' dictates that the authorities should destroy that building. Right?

**edit** I know, off on a tangent but... :smirk:


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<~>Our truest life is when we are in dreams awake <~>


Edited by grib (04/07/04 07:35 PM)


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,208
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Winning hearts and minds [Re: grib]
    #2536204 - 04/07/04 07:48 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Actually, were you smart enough to have thought that through you'd see there is a difference between shooting at a building with hostages and one with none.

I thought even the most simple could have gotten that without needing it to be explained. Sorry if I over-estimated you.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Anonymous

Re: Winning hearts and minds [Re: Xlea321]
    #2536747 - 04/07/04 10:07 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

""We do not attack mosques willy-nilly, but we will fire back at any place where we take direct fire," said Lt. Col. Brennan T. Byrne, commander of the 1st Battalion, 5th Marines, one of two regiments that entered Fallujah on Monday as part of a massive operation to eliminate anti-occupation forces from the city, which is about 35 miles west of Baghdad.

Byrne and other officers said about 40 armed men gathered at the Abdul Aziz Samarai Mosque Wednesday morning and set up bunkers outside it, from which they opened fire on U.S. troops with rifles and rocket-propelled grenades, wounding four Marines sitting in a Humvee several blocks away.

After ground attacks failed to dislodge the fighters, Marine officers at different command posts in the city debated via radio whether to bring in larger weapons, and how to minimize civilian casualties. Finally, in mid-afternoon, they called in air strikes that seriously damaged the mosque.

Byrne initially said all the fighters inside were presumed killed, and Iraqi news reports said numerous bodies had been taken to Fallujah's main hospital. In a late-evening briefing, however, Byrne said his troops had found no bodies, bloodstains or weapons when they entered the mosque after the bombing.

"They profaned the mosque by their actions," said Maj. Gen. James N. Mattis, commander of the 1st Marine Division, who visited the operation command center in an abandoned factory Wednesday along with Gen. Michael W. Hagee, commandant of the Marine Corps. "If they decide to fight from a mosque, we will take them out, but we will also be precise about how we do it."

There was also fighting around a second mosque in the same district, a magnificent blue-domed building near the entrance to the city. Insurgents had gathered there and exchanged fire with Marines Tuesday, and Marines found weapons and ammunition there Wednesday. "

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A57805-2004Apr7.html


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3,392
Loc: Lotus Land!! B.C.
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Re: Winning hearts and minds [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2536909 - 04/07/04 10:42 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Destroy any building where hostile fire comes from.




Quote:

""We do not attack mosques willy-nilly, but we will fire back at any place where we take direct fire," said Lt. Col. Brennan T. Byrne, commander of the 1st Battalion




You could do well for yourself in the military......Lt. Col. Luv. D. Emshrooms :lol: :wink:


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Winning hearts and minds [Re: Ekstaza]
    #2537170 - 04/07/04 11:41 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

The report that I saw said that it was near a Mosque, not that the Mosque was targeted.

from the Associated Press: "The Abdel-Aziz al-Samarrai mosque was hit by U.S. aircraft that launched a Hellfire missile at its minaret and dropped a 500-pound bomb on a wall surrounding the compound."


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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