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Offlinesagecl

Registered: 06/18/18
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Working under alcohol lamp
    #25334684 - 07/18/18 11:02 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

Any thoughts on this technique? I know it's not as good as a proper SAB but it is very oftenly used on real microbiology labs.
Is it fittable to agar duty ?

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Re: Working under alcohol lamp [Re: sagecl] * 1
    #25335135 - 07/19/18 09:08 AM (5 years, 8 months ago)

Its supposed to be a bunsen burner not an alcohol lamp. And i wouldn't suggest it to more modern technique. It's ok for basic bacteriological work for highschool and college kids or basic QA work for a small lab. We use petri dishes as inoculant, rather than just diagnostic tools. Thus we require completely aseptic plates.


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OfflineSolipsis
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Re: Working under alcohol lamp [Re: bodhisatta]
    #25335344 - 07/19/18 11:44 AM (5 years, 8 months ago)

IIRC one advantage of a burner is that it creates an air current which goes upwards plus pulls in air which gets sterilized from the intense heat.

I don't have a flowhood but I have tried using an alcohol burner in a glovebox once or twice which is a terrible idea. What I do now is I have a glovebox with a really small opening / slot in one side and the glovebox sits on my kitchen counter not far away from the stove.

So I use the stove to sterilize tools which I pass through the slot into the glovebox onto a piece of natural stone for it to cool. The bonus is that it draws away air which gets sterilized and the airflow is less likely to be compromising.

The glovebox is large enough to be comfortable so I really don't miss that it's not a SAB, esp with things having a standard place in the box.

Sorry I misunderstood the OP a bit... I recall a bit of that in biology back in college but I really don't recommend it as a substitute for a box or hood. I don't think a box is too expensive to make.

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OfflineFishLevelMidnight
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Re: Working under alcohol lamp [Re: Solipsis] * 1
    #25355985 - 07/30/18 01:36 PM (5 years, 7 months ago)

In my new set up I have a propane tank and 2 big Bunsen burners. I've poured plates, inoculated sterile bags with grain, did g2g transfers, inoculated LC, make syringes...
Everything I had been doing at work with the flowhood I am doing with the sterile field created by the flame.

Took a little bit of tinkering to figure out how to maneuver plates and things to be workable and in the sterile field but I will probably put off building an at home flow hood for a little while as this is working great for me. Spent many hours witht he flame running and my tank is still pretty heavy.

I think Josex also recently moved to this set up with success, so as long as you know what you're doing, know how to pick out contaminants and are willing to have a little % of your projects contam (I' at maybe 5% or so) it is a viable method.

I would suggest against an alcohol lamp though.


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Re: Working under alcohol lamp [Re: sagecl]
    #25358440 - 07/31/18 02:39 PM (5 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

sagecl said:
Any thoughts on this technique? I know it's not as good as a proper SAB but it is very oftenly used on real microbiology labs.
Is it fittable to agar duty ?




Get yourself a pair of bunsens, alcohol lamp aint gonna cut it. My success rate with the bunsens is 100% and besides G2G I've done everything without a hitch, you just need to know how they work and it's actually really hard to get contams once you know what you're doing.

The reason people haven't tried this before for myco escapes me, but it certainly isn't less aseptic than a ghetto box and still air.

I actually started experimenting with fire because the place I grow in is mold city and I had issues working with the SAB. I'd disregard the fuck out of any opinion from people who haven't tried this. :shrug:

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Re: Working under alcohol lamp [Re: Josex]
    #25369677 - 08/06/18 08:51 AM (5 years, 7 months ago)

I just don't see the advantage of working under a burner. You're gonna have a tiny workspace which is gonna up the time it takes to get shit done. You're also gonna have to buy a Bunsen burner if you don't have one, plus you'll have to keep buying fuel. I'd rather spend $10-20 on a box and be able to fit a bunch of shit in it.


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Pat The Bunny said:
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bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.

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Re: Working under alcohol lamp [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #25370917 - 08/06/18 07:18 PM (5 years, 7 months ago)

You're only capable of doing one thing at a time in the SAB and you use a very small space for that, dont you.
Same thing with the bunsens, with 2 of them working at the same time you have a sizeable sphere where you can do your sterile work comfortably.

Jars are lined up on the table waiting their turn to be inoculated, it's by no means slower plus you don't have to set up a SAB nor do you need to move as carefuly as in the SAB, because the bunsens really allow more room for error or clumsiness, not to mention working open air trumps working in a cramped-up, uncomfortable SAB with poor visibility.

They also consume really little gas. I've been doing this for months and the gas cylinders are heavy as if I just bought them.

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Re: Working under alcohol lamp [Re: Josex]
    #25371774 - 08/07/18 06:53 AM (5 years, 7 months ago)

I have to say I am intrigued by this technique as opposed to a SAB. I fucking hate still air boxes. So uncomfortable and no matter how clear the plastic is I dont like the reduced visibility. Then you are supposed to move so damn slow. Just my opinion.

Fisherman/Josex can you recommend a burner? I was looking at the larger merker style ones on amazon but they were around $60 each


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OfflineFishLevelMidnight
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Re: Working under alcohol lamp [Re: Mtez44]
    #25371826 - 08/07/18 07:30 AM (5 years, 7 months ago)

I think I have the same style as Josex but I got for stupid cheap at the university (they have this awesome store that sells old equipment, science stuff as well as items from dorms and other parts of the campus), so I can't send you in the proper direction of a source :frown:


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Re: Working under alcohol lamp [Re: FishLevelMidnight] * 1
    #25371950 - 08/07/18 08:41 AM (5 years, 7 months ago)

Ya Mekers are at least twice as expensive as bunsens, but they're so badass and shiny. I got my 2 bunsens from Ebay and other spanish site, 30 euros each.

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InvisibleChemBioWiz
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Re: Working under alcohol lamp [Re: sagecl]
    #25411262 - 08/24/18 10:43 PM (5 years, 7 months ago)

Thanks for posting this question man!

I use a Bunsen burner frequently for pouring plates, making transfers, cloning, inoculating jars, and doing other sterile work. This technique seems to get a lot of hate around here, but it's reliable, cheap, and very effective if performed correctly. Honestly, I'm surprised more new folks don't at least try it out since it's so accessible, especially considering that there's just as much room to maneuver as there is in your average glove-box/SAB. It's definitely much cheaper than building a flow hood, although it does have its obvious drawbacks.

Just like most techniques, when people mess this one up, it usually comes down to sloppy procedure -- they don't have a strong enough updraft (e.g. their flame isn't "jetting"), they're working in an area with a lot of competing air currents, they're breathing heavily downward into their workspace, or they work too far outside the updraft cone diameter (it's only about 60 cm (24 in) maximum).

I'll take a few pictures or make a video either this or next weekend and post the technique I use if you folks are interested. I don't particularly feel like starting an argument with people over this since a lot of you seem to have a strong opinion about it, but I think it would be good to at least showcase it as a capability in our toolbox.


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Re: Working under alcohol lamp [Re: ChemBioWiz]
    #25412143 - 08/25/18 09:50 AM (5 years, 7 months ago)

Well put. :mostinteresting:

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OfflineDutchMyco
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Re: Working under alcohol lamp [Re: Josex]
    #25412380 - 08/25/18 12:00 PM (5 years, 7 months ago)

Used it for agar work many years ago, not for mushroom cultivation though so can't really comment on that.
Some weeks ago I came across a technique used for sterile work for growing orchids, which used working on a screen above a boiling pot of water. Not sure if this is in any way more practical than a SAB, but I found it creative enough to share here.

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Offlinecilasiah
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Re: Working under alcohol lamp [Re: ChemBioWiz]
    #25412456 - 08/25/18 12:38 PM (5 years, 7 months ago)

Yes please! Make a tutorial for your techique! will be waiting!
thanks

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Re: Working under alcohol lamp [Re: cilasiah]
    #25412683 - 08/25/18 02:37 PM (5 years, 7 months ago)

Working over a boiling pot of water is dangerous and stupid. Steam can and will burn the shit out of you, not to mention it could melt your plates and cause all kinds of condensation.


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Redd Foxx said:
If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more.

Pat The Bunny said:
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bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.

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Re: Working under alcohol lamp [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #25414613 - 08/26/18 01:04 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Plant tissue culture doesn't demand nearly the same level of cleanliness as fungal tissue culture work.


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InvisibleWolfGang G
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Re: Working under alcohol lamp [Re: bodhisatta]
    #25415451 - 08/26/18 08:07 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

This is my take on using the burner. It will work well with a laminar flow hood, but in a still air environment it causes some heat convection and takes time to complete the process. It can be done will a still air box with great success though.

This is how my evolution of culture has taken me. I use disposable scalpels (#11), they cost about $5 for 10 of them and they make it through the pressure cooker. I keep 30 rolled up in foil and undo the foil as I need another scalpel. This technique takes away a lot of risky movements and takes less time to complete. You never have to leave the still air box because everything is already sterile.

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Re: Working under alcohol lamp [Re: WolfGang G]
    #25415670 - 08/26/18 09:42 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

WolfGang G said:
This is my take on using the burner. It will work well with a laminar flow hood, but in a still air environment it causes some heat convection and takes time to complete the process. It can be done will a still air box with great success though.

This is how my evolution of culture has taken me. I use disposable scalpels (#11), they cost about $5 for 10 of them and they make it through the pressure cooker. I keep 30 rolled up in foil and undo the foil as I need another scalpel. This technique takes away a lot of risky movements and takes less time to complete. You never have to leave the still air box because everything is already sterile.




Did you even read the thread?


--------------------
Redd Foxx said:
If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more.

Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.

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Offlinesagecl

Registered: 06/18/18
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Re: Working under alcohol lamp [Re: Josex]
    #25418232 - 08/27/18 11:47 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Well thanks everyone for the answers, got myself a bunsen very cheaply from aliexpress, now i'm evaluating ways to connect it to gas tank.
I know a bunsen won't replace a sab or a fh, but for small work it could be handy and I think is good lab practice.

Quote:

Josex said:
Get yourself a pair of bunsens, alcohol lamp aint gonna cut it. My success rate with the bunsens is 100% and besides G2G I've done everything without a hitch, you just need to know how they work and it's actually really hard to get contams once you know what you're doing.

The reason people haven't tried this before for myco escapes me, but it certainly isn't less aseptic than a ghetto box and still air.

I actually started experimenting with fire because the place I grow in is mold city and I had issues working with the SAB. I'd disregard the fuck out of any opinion from people who haven't tried this. :shrug:



Thanks for the reply man, I've followed your teks and just love them, and the fact that you're not from the us really helps since i'm not either, so you kinda understand the low availability of some items outside us.

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Offlinesagecl

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Re: Working under alcohol lamp [Re: WolfGang G]
    #25418237 - 08/27/18 11:53 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

WolfGang G said:
This is my take on using the burner. It will work well with a laminar flow hood, but in a still air environment it causes some heat convection and takes time to complete the process. It can be done will a still air box with great success though.

This is how my evolution of culture has taken me. I use disposable scalpels (#11), they cost about $5 for 10 of them and they make it through the pressure cooker. I keep 30 rolled up in foil and undo the foil as I need another scalpel. This technique takes away a lot of risky movements and takes less time to complete. You never have to leave the still air box because everything is already sterile.




You could consider buying a metallic scalpel and the blades separately, the grip of the scalpel cost me like 2$ and each blade around  .2$ each, so I just throw them away after every time. I think nothing in that sab is actually sterile, it's just that contams get stuck onto the walls of everything and they are not floating around, so they don't enter your work.

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Re: Working under alcohol lamp [Re: sagecl]
    #25442858 - 09/07/18 03:18 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

I've pointed to this technique years ago, and was told it wouldn't work for myco work. I've always doubted those answers.

:themoreyouknow:


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Re: Working under alcohol lamp [Re: LizardWizard]
    #25442906 - 09/07/18 03:36 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

I see it more as the difference between using a hand saw, a two person bow saw. And a chain saw.

Can you cut down a forrest with the bunsen burner(hand saw) sure but you're doing it like they did in 1650

Can you cut down a forest with a still air box(two person bow saw)
Sure but you're doing it like 1903

And with a flow hood(chain saw)...

But in this case the two person bow saw costs substantially less than the hand saw. So yea...


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Re: Working under alcohol lamp [Re: bodhisatta]
    #25443493 - 09/07/18 07:43 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

There are so many threads here any information can be found to confirm a bias.

:begger:


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Re: Working under alcohol lamp [Re: gizmodo]
    #25443497 - 09/07/18 07:45 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

I hate that graemlin because it's spelled beggar not begger


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Re: Working under alcohol lamp [Re: bodhisatta]
    #25443500 - 09/07/18 07:45 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

OCD trigger. Cannot unsee.

Edited by gizmodo (09/07/18 07:46 PM)

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Re: Working under alcohol lamp [Re: gizmodo]
    #25443502 - 09/07/18 07:46 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Same here dude.


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Re: Working under alcohol lamp [Re: LizardWizard]
    #25443549 - 09/07/18 08:05 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

or derfase should be derface
:derfase:


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Re: Working under alcohol lamp [Re: bodhisatta] * 1
    #25443608 - 09/07/18 08:28 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Ythan did those just to irk people like you.


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Redd Foxx said:
If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more.

Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.

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OfflineMtez44
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Re: Working under alcohol lamp [Re: bodhisatta]
    #25443820 - 09/07/18 09:53 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
I see it more as the difference between using a hand saw, a two person bow saw. And a chain saw.

Can you cut down a forrest with the bunsen burner(hand saw) sure but you're doing it like they did in 1650

Can you cut down a forest with a still air box(two person bow saw)
Sure but you're doing it like 1903

And with a flow hood(chain saw)...

But in this case the two person bow saw costs substantially less than the hand saw. So yea...




why is it that you compare the burners to a handsaw and the SAB to a misery whip?

You are simply saying the SAB is better and Im trying to understand why. Are you saying that a still air box will allow you to work faster?

I think your opinion is common place. Your analogy didn't really explain why though. Just a fancier way to say what everyone else is saying.


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Re: Working under alcohol lamp [Re: Mtez44]
    #25443844 - 09/07/18 09:58 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

more reliable results. more consistent success. chop the forest down faster. yea the bunsen burner is more open and more space and nice to work with like a hand saw, and a SAB kind of ties you down to arm holes like a two person saw ties you down to needing two people.

either way its just a fucking analogy lol. I'm trying to say that the bunsen burner isn't staying relevant in microbiology because it's not as effective and other methods are not cost prohibitive.


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Re: Working under alcohol lamp [Re: bodhisatta]
    #25443939 - 09/07/18 10:38 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

all good man. I get its just an analogy. However a lot of what you say holds weight around here.

Its just that everything seems anecdotal when it pertains to this subject. Mostly popular opinion. Burners apparently the least popular.

I just hate SABs perhaps like you hate burners.


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Re: Working under alcohol lamp [Re: Mtez44]
    #25444536 - 09/08/18 07:23 AM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Anyone who's been here a while knows that Bod is always right, or rather believes to be, shit's getting old and the analogies he posted here based on zero actual experience are just ridiculous. I'd always take what he says with a fucking fat pinch of salt...

I've tried both ways (SAB and bunsens) and know very well the pros and cons of each method. I'd build a FH if it wasn't a near impossibility for me, but as it is working with the 2 bunsens is hands down my next best option.

I don't have to set up a SAB anymore, just the thought of it makes me cringe. I just light up the burners and get to work. I'm as comfortable as if I was in front of a FH and don't have to look through a thick piece of plastic. I don't need to be careful not to stir the dirty air in a dirty box because I'm working in a nearly sterile field. I can move faster and get shit done in a fraction of the time it would take me in a SAB. The bunsens are 10x safer than a plastic box, I've done some crazy shit using the bunsens just to see if I'd get contams that you could never do in a SAB without getting a bunch of mold.

The only real con of the bunsens that I can see is the price vs a plastic box, but it isn't much and imo totally worth it considering how much easier your life is gonna get.

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Re: Working under alcohol lamp [Re: Josex]
    #25444900 - 09/08/18 10:24 AM (5 years, 6 months ago)

I have several of these style burners for camping. They attach directly to the fuel canister

You think these will work in place of bunsens?

Would they make a larger sterile field vs a single jet Bunsen?


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Re: Working under alcohol lamp [Re: Josex]
    #25444919 - 09/08/18 10:37 AM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
And i wouldn't suggest it to more modern technique..




Quote:

Josex said:
Anyone who's been here a while knows that Bod is always right, or rather believes to be, shit's getting old and the analogies he posted here based on zero actual experience are just ridiculous. I'd always take what he says with a fucking fat pinch of salt...




I didn't see a reason to straw man Bod.  :shrug:
Either way it looks like two opinions, everyone's got them just like assholes.
People being straight up rude for no reason here triggers me you guys need to lay off the energy drinks.

Be nice. :bunnyhug:


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Re: Working under alcohol lamp [Re: gizmodo]
    #25444950 - 09/08/18 10:51 AM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Jose and I talked about this before. The best literature says that the bunsen "reduces risk" or other phrases that don't sound solid.

Its used in settings where no sterile technique would be fine. Its not used in labs where sterility is demanded.

There is not a lot of data or info or evidence about the efficacy of the Bunsen burner sterile field but also the only people using it are schools and basic QA labs that don't require great sterile technique to achieve their goals anyway.

If it's working for jose he can gladly post evidence of it and maybe ill eat my words some day, to think I always need to be right is lol at best. Ive ate my words numerous times here and even more in real life. Im only posting with the intent of digging for better understanding and also the best help for the next people in line to learn.



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Re: Working under alcohol lamp [Re: bodhisatta]
    #25445126 - 09/08/18 12:48 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

It's your style bod, you do know that by now, right? :lol:

Josex, I believe what you say, but I have no experience working with bunsens, nor am I planning to work with them since I got a hood anyway. But I think it would be good for the OMC if you would do a small write-up with a few short vids or photo's with comments, on how to work with bunsens. It's indeed a much easier way of working than the dreadful confines of a SAB, and a lot cheaper than any hood, but since no one ever put up a tek for it, no one will ever have use for it. So if you're up for it...

Things that come to mind for me are: Can you use it for open bag inoculation; How much of a perimeter do you have around the bunsens; How fast can you move; Direction of airflow and working principle; Proper contamination rates to find out how well you're doing (like with SAB I had a 8/10 good plate rate after transfer, as long as the source was clean already, when I moved to mold city that became about 2/10, flowhood fixed it all the way up to 10/10); how long does it need to run in a small room before it's efficient enough; what preparation is needed for work surfaces; Stuff like that..


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Edited by LizardWizard (09/08/18 12:57 PM)

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Re: Working under alcohol lamp [Re: LizardWizard]
    #25445442 - 09/08/18 03:48 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Aseptic Technique
Tomasz Bykowski1 and Brian Stevenson


This chapter describes common laboratory procedures that can reduce the risk of culture contaminations
(sepsis), collectively referred as “aseptic technique.” Two major strategies of aseptic
work are described: using a Bunsen burner and a laminar flow hood. Both methods are presented in the form of general protocols applicable to a variety of laboratory tasks such as pipetting and dispensing aliquots, preparing growth media, and inoculating, passaging, and spreading microorganisms on petri dishes. Curr. Protoc. Microbiol. 11:A.4D.1-A.4D.11. C  2008 by John Wiley & Sons, Inc

The Bunsen Burner
Probably the easiest way to create a relatively sterile environment on the laboratory bench is by using a simple gaspowered burner

still waiting on anything that says the field produced by a bunsen burner is more than "relatively sterile" or "semi-sterile"

or compelling results from individuals.


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Re: Working under alcohol lamp [Re: bodhisatta]
    #25445811 - 09/08/18 06:31 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

What about thousands of labs around the world that use burners for bacterial work?

Even if you aren’t using antibiotics to select.


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Re: Working under alcohol lamp [Re: FishLevelMidnight]
    #25445821 - 09/08/18 06:36 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Providing literature instead of what ifs is a more concise way to get a point across.
I mean what kind of bacterial work? What type of environment are they working in?
Is there anything else they are doing to really bolster the atmosphere in terms of a lab setting?
Just a burner is probably not the only factor at play in the least I just look here and see people throwing jabs at the wind?
Anyway nobody said someone can't use it originally it was just said there are just much more reliable and sensible methods.
Yall are cray.


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Edited by gizmodo (09/08/18 06:37 PM)

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Re: Working under alcohol lamp [Re: gizmodo]
    #25445904 - 09/08/18 07:19 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

gizmodo with all due respect I think the argument here is that there the SAB is not the more reliable and sensible method.

But again I think it may come down to opinion.

SAB is not infallible and neither is the bunsen it seems.

I just don't see any evidence saying the SAB is better. I don't see any evidence saying burners are better. It seems to be a matter of opinion.

I think its fair to say that both methods work just as well. Unless anyone has evidence to the contrary.

As for me, I hate the confines of a SAB, I will be moving to the burner technique.


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Re: Working under alcohol lamp [Re: FishLevelMidnight]
    #25445925 - 09/08/18 07:31 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

fishermansjc said:
What about thousands of labs around the world that use burners for bacterial work?

Even if you aren’t using antibiotics to select.



They toss the plates after 5-7 days anyway. I do beer QC there's no particular sterile technique make plates put beer on see if contamination grows. If mold grows we know it's from the air because mold(aerobic ones) cant grow in beer. So it would be labeled MOG or mold overgrowth. And doesn't confound the results.

No lab that slants cultures would use the Bunsen burner technique


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Re: Working under alcohol lamp [Re: LizardWizard]
    #25445982 - 09/08/18 07:58 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

LizardWizard said:
It's indeed a much easier way of working than the dreadful confines of a SAB, and a lot cheaper than any hood, but since no one ever put up a tek for it, no one will ever have use for it. So if you're up for it...





Maybe I'll do that as soon as I find the time and energy to do so. Maybe in winter because the summer season gets really crazy for me at work and I have no days off at all. Or maybe I'll just continue using the burners, shut up and grow, coz I have no intention to become a paradigm breaker or anything nor do I have the "scientific knowledge/background"  or even the energy to defend this.

I wish I could answer all those interesting questions you asked but I'm no scientist and to be honest I don't care that much about the scientific facts. All I care about are results and shrooms. And the results so far have been amazing, although it took me some tweaking to learn how to use the burners properly.

I've been striving with a severe mold problem where I grow, which is an old apartment that I use exclusively for cult. At some point my SAB sessions became a nightmare when I had always had great success with the plastic box. Started doing some experiments with a torch kinda as a last resort and had some interesting results.  That led me to buy my 2 bunsen burners and all of a sudden my mold problems dissapear in one fell swoop and I have virtually a 100% success rate. So of course the SAB can go fuck itself now.

All my grows from a few months back have been done using exclusively my pair of burners and I didn't encounter a single issue. And all my future grows will be done using exclusively my pair of burners. I'd rather let my work speak for itself than having to make a tek about something that I myself don't understand all too well how it works, besides some anecdotal observations and first hand experience.

Edited by Josex (09/08/18 08:04 PM)

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Re: Working under alcohol lamp [Re: Josex]
    #25445993 - 09/08/18 08:02 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Ive had stuff that looked as bad as your trich towel more than a few times
And my basement is moldy as shit
And well my SAB worked fine. You're one of the smarter/ist dudes here jose but I wana see something before I jump on your bandwagon.


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Re: Working under alcohol lamp [Re: bodhisatta]
    #25446005 - 09/08/18 08:08 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Jose,

Im just interested in how you do it so I can mimic. Would love a demonstration. or even a point in the right direction.

For now I going to use camping rocket burners. I think they should do the trick. Just going to keep everything as close to the burner as I can and keep everything under the flame.

Are there any other rules to follow?


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Re: Working under alcohol lamp [Re: bodhisatta]
    #25446036 - 09/08/18 08:21 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Lol no, the towel wasn't my issue at all, that was just the only reason I could think of atm before I discovered the real problem, which was that all the wooden blind boxes (or whatever you call it in English) of every single window were rotting away and were completely covered in green. I even had to seal all the boxes and windows with silicone.

A procedure as simple and quick as barely cracking a lid in the SAB and squirting sterile water could very well get me some mold. The house was fucked beyond redemption but some people here seem to think a plastic box, still air and good technique trumps it all, no matter how wildly different your environment/situation may be. Well not my experience at all.

I started working with a SAB when I was a noob in an old dusty basement and had nearly zero issues, so I know you can use a SAB effectively in really dirty places, just not in this shithole of a mold city I currently grow in. :shrug:

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Re: Working under alcohol lamp [Re: Josex]
    #25446672 - 09/09/18 04:51 AM (5 years, 6 months ago)

:whathesaid: is quite like my experience, only my solution was the hood. Sometimes an SAB isn't all you need, sometimes it's quite the opposite. And people who start giving me shit about technique n all, there's no issue with the use of a hood, nor were there issues in anywhere near that magnitude with the use of an SAB in my living space before mold city, so that would point to the technique being fine.

I'd like a quick demo as well, no real need to defend it or be scientific about it, more of a short "How Josex gets shit done" kind of thread. I won't be the one asking for extra efforts to prove yourself or whatever, your grows DO speak for themselves.

I doubt a camping burner works very well, I think the flame needs to jet upward more rather than going wide like with a campsite burner. But I'm thinking it might be possible to make it out of a campsite burner and some copper tubing if you're handy enough.


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Re: Working under alcohol lamp [Re: LizardWizard]
    #25446808 - 09/09/18 06:47 AM (5 years, 6 months ago)

I blew up a glovebox once or twice with alcohol (back when i still sprayed the air inside with alcohol.. ugh!), although kinda scary for a moment I think it is like a very hot and heavy marriage between a sterile box and a Bunsen burner - for when everything just absolutely must be sterile

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Re: Working under alcohol lamp [Re: sagecl]
    #25449033 - 09/10/18 04:29 AM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

fishermansjc said:
What about thousands of labs around the world that use burners for bacterial work?

Even if you aren’t using antibiotics to select.




Quote:

sagecl said:
Any thoughts on this technique? I know it's not as good as a proper SAB but it is very oftenly used on real microbiology labs.
Is it fittable to agar duty ?




You guys are forgetting about the sterilization procedures that the labs themselves undergo. Air inside is clean, so contamination is far less of an issue. That's why you can grow E. coli in non-selective media and only grow E. coli, inoculating and aliquoting in open air, 'cause it's not the same open air as we have.


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Re: Working under alcohol lamp [Re: teladi]
    #25449078 - 09/10/18 05:27 AM (5 years, 6 months ago)

This is absolutely incorrect

Do you know how much it costs to produce clean air in a lab? Most labs are outfitted from older buildings and this is stupid expense.

The vast majority of labs don’t have “clean air”. Some higher level biosafety labs might have posivltive pressure in the room to help keep things out, but the majority of labs this isn’t the case.
At least on the academic research  side of things, commercial/industry labs are usually newer and nicer.

Not only that, but to have “clean air” and also bring people in and out of the space is hard as balls.

Are you pulling this out of your ass or do you have experience in a research lab?

That bit about only getting E. coli, yeah that’s how it works when you work under a Bunsen burner and inoculate the dish with E. coli... it works


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Re: Working under alcohol lamp [Re: FishLevelMidnight]
    #25449121 - 09/10/18 06:01 AM (5 years, 6 months ago)

I have 2 years in a postgrad lab as a masters slave spent investigating immune systems of a marine mollusc. My time was mostly spent extracting and sequencing DNA, followed by a lot of time trying to figure out what they were.

"Clean air" is relative. What may be clean in one situation is dirty in others. Even the undergrad labs had recirculated air, and periodic full room sterilization.  Higher biosafety level labs have negative air pressure, not positive. This to keep the bad things you are investigating inside.

Depending on the requirements of the room itself, certain procedures can be waived or ignored, affecting the operating cost. Air locks and the like aren't always required. Inward opening doors are kept closed in positive pressure rooms by the pressure (and spring swing arms).

Besides, air in an office building is cleaner than the air in our homes. Not clean down to HEPA H14 standards or beyond, but cleaner nonetheless.

Some time later...I can't remember the exact configuration of ventilation in the various labs. The higher rated ones were completely isolated.


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Edited by teladi (09/10/18 01:12 PM)

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Re: Working under alcohol lamp [Re: FishLevelMidnight] * 1
    #25449325 - 09/10/18 08:33 AM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

fishermansjc said:
This is absolutely incorrect

Do you know how much it costs to produce clean air in a lab? Most labs are outfitted from older buildings and this is stupid expense.

The vast majority of labs don’t have “clean air”. Some higher level biosafety labs might have posivltive pressure in the room to help keep things out, but the majority of labs this isn’t the case.
At least on the academic research  side of things, commercial/industry labs are usually newer and nicer.

Not only that, but to have “clean air” and also bring people in and out of the space is hard as balls.

Are you pulling this out of your ass or do you have experience in a research lab?

That bit about only getting E. coli, yeah that’s how it works when you work under a Bunsen burner and inoculate the dish with E. coli... it works



No, its correct.


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Re: Working under alcohol lamp [Re: sagecl]
    #28595993 - 12/24/23 03:01 AM (3 months, 2 days ago)

Yes, this is an old post but what else is there that you haven't went through on growing mushies? EXACTLY!!!
Now for something new! If you use an alcohol burner in a SAB, you are pulling dirty air through the armholes and into the box as it pushes out clean air from the top of the flame. Aka Circulating air within the SAb. Use a torch lighter or a tool sterilizer, not an alcohol burner.

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Re: Working under alcohol lamp [Re: PsychdelicSpore]
    #28596639 - 12/24/23 01:48 PM (3 months, 2 days ago)

Quote:

PsychdelicSpore said:
Yes, this is an old post but what else is there that you haven't went through on growing mushies? EXACTLY!!!
Now for something new! If you use an alcohol burner in a SAB, you are pulling dirty air through the armholes and into the box as it pushes out clean air from the top of the flame. Aka Circulating air within the SAb. Use a torch lighter or a tool sterilizer, not an alcohol burner.





Did you not even read the posts before you just replied?


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Re: Working under alcohol lamp [Re: PsychdelicSpore]
    #28597298 - 12/25/23 03:52 AM (3 months, 1 day ago)

Voting fo
Quote:

PsychdelicSpore said:
Yes, this is an old post but what else is there that you haven't went through on growing mushies? EXACTLY!!!
Now for something new! If you use an alcohol burner in a SAB, you are pulling dirty air through the armholes and into the box as it pushes out clean air from the top of the flame. Aka Circulating air within the SAb. Use a torch lighter or a tool sterilizer, not an alcohol burner.




:wtf3:


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