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 SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis
 
Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 7,660
Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
Last seen: 9 hours, 11 minutes
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 Open borders/No borders 
#25318290 - 07/10/18 10:38 AM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Tell me .......why it would be good for humanity? Who would be in power, a world government?
We all have our immigration stances and have beat that fucking horse to a pulp, so hopefully it won't derail..... If there were no borders, there would be no immigration anyway; Convince me.
--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
Edited by SirTripAlot (07/10/18 10:39 AM)
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qman
Stranger
Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 1 day, 6 hours
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It's nothing more than an ideological fantasy with no answers to all of the obvious questions.
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 Enlil 
OTD God-King
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,258
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Having no border is silly. Open borders are a good idea.
--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.
Ask an Attorney
Fuck the Amish
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis
Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 7,660
Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
Last seen: 9 hours, 11 minutes
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 Re: Open borders/No borders [Re: Enlil]
#25318596 - 07/10/18 01:57 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Other than ease of movement, why would an open border be beneficial?
Would people be able to stay indefinitely?
--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
Edited by SirTripAlot (07/10/18 01:58 PM)
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Oceanwater
Stranger
Registered: 07/09/18
Posts: 14
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
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Actually I could care less. I’m pretty pissed off that I join the site and I can’t post anything. I’ve been waiting days for help to get some mushroom identification. It took me damn near three hours to figure out how to even post anything in my journal. And I also messaged a moderator and I’m getting nowhere
Edited by Oceanwater (07/10/18 02:01 PM)
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relic
of a bygone era
Registered: 10/14/14
Posts: 5,624
Loc: the right coast
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Re: Open borders/No borders [Re: Oceanwater]
#25318605 - 07/10/18 02:04 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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if you could care less, what would make you care less?
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Oceanwater
Stranger
Registered: 07/09/18
Posts: 14
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
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Re: Open borders/No borders [Re: relic]
#25318610 - 07/10/18 02:09 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Borders
Edited by Oceanwater (07/10/18 02:12 PM)
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relic
of a bygone era
Registered: 10/14/14
Posts: 5,624
Loc: the right coast
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Re: Open borders/No borders [Re: Oceanwater]
#25318624 - 07/10/18 02:20 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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got it. borders could make you care less about borders.
what's the link to your ID request?
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Oceanwater
Stranger
Registered: 07/09/18
Posts: 14
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
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Re: Open borders/No borders [Re: relic]
#25318654 - 07/10/18 02:36 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Enlil
OTD God-King
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,258
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Quote:
SirTripAlot said:
Other than ease of movement, why would an open border be beneficial?
Would people be able to stay indefinitely?
Sure, why not? Why wouldn't it be beneficial? It would save a ton of money in immigration enforcement.
--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.
Ask an Attorney
Fuck the Amish
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relic
of a bygone era
Registered: 10/14/14
Posts: 5,624
Loc: the right coast
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Re: Open borders/No borders [Re: Oceanwater]
#25318790 - 07/10/18 03:28 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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post it in the Mushroom Hunting and Identification Forum. the new post link is on the RHS about a 1/5 of the way down.
and you should fill out this template, as well, in order to provide detailed, accurate information.
Habitat:
Where does it grow? Eg. woods, pasture, state, province, country, altitude, etc. What does it grow on? Eg. soil, dung, wood (dead, living, what kind of wood?), etc.
Gills:
Color, attached/not, gills/pores, etc.
Stem:
Length, diameter, color, texture, hollow/solid, thin/thick, etc.
Cap:
Diameter, color, texture, conical/spherical, convex/concave, etc.
Spore print color:
Very important!
Bruising:
Color that the mushroom bruises, if any.
Other information:
Scent of the mushroom, anything else you think is important, large close-up pictures showing stem, cap and gills.
having given those pointers, you have a Panaeolus species, but not Panaeolus cinctulus, imo.
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MagicMush123
moon person
Registered: 01/22/15
Posts: 5,153
Loc: Chinada 
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Re: Open borders/No borders [Re: Enlil]
#25318941 - 07/10/18 04:31 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
SirTripAlot said:
Other than ease of movement, why would an open border be beneficial?
Would people be able to stay indefinitely?
Sure, why not? Why wouldn't it be beneficial? It would save a ton of money in immigration enforcement.
In the case of the eu, it helps terrorists travel more freely. Instead of being stuck in any given country, they can hop a train to whichever nation they want and commit terrorism or other crimes
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Enlil
OTD God-King
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,258
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Maybe, but for every terrorist that is advantaged by open borders, there are a million non-terrorists who are as well. Punishing the many for the wrongdoing of the few is irrational.
--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.
Ask an Attorney
Fuck the Amish
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Kryptos
Stranger
Registered: 11/01/14
Posts: 12,644
Last seen: 6 hours, 44 minutes
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Re: Open borders/No borders [Re: Enlil] 1
#25319035 - 07/10/18 05:24 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
SirTripAlot said:
Tell me .......why it would be good for humanity? Who would be in power, a world government?
We all have our immigration stances and have beat that fucking horse to a pulp, so hopefully it won't derail..... If there were no borders, there would be no immigration anyway; Convince me.
What's wrong with a world government? Wouldn't you like to be able to, say, sue Bin Laden for damages? His family is extremely wealthy. Interestingly, they are one of the bigger real estate developers in the Middle East. Same business as our president.
Plus, with a worldwide minimum wage, and worldwide labor standards, inequality would be significantly lessened. Of course, worldwide pay would also average out, so the average US citizen would lose purchasing power, but this would take a while. During this time, prices would also average out, and people would naturally migrate to the places that are most suitable to their skill sets and wealth range.
Plus, we wouldn't have to deal with conflicting international laws when it comes to use of force or extradition or whatever, we'd just be able to send a SWAT team to wherever and arrest them.
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis
Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 7,660
Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
Last seen: 9 hours, 11 minutes
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Re: Open borders/No borders [Re: Enlil]
#25319057 - 07/10/18 05:32 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
SirTripAlot said:
Other than ease of movement, why would an open border be beneficial?
Would people be able to stay indefinitely?
Sure, why not? Why wouldn't it be beneficial? It would save a ton of money in immigration enforcement.
Pure speculation, but I would think that a country that had an over abundance of people staying, would fiscally tax the infrastructure. On the other hand, tax the shit out 'em?
--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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Enlil
OTD God-King
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,258
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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That's the point. More people means more tax revenue.
--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.
Ask an Attorney
Fuck the Amish
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Kryptos
Stranger
Registered: 11/01/14
Posts: 12,644
Last seen: 6 hours, 44 minutes
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Re: Open borders/No borders [Re: Enlil]
#25319065 - 07/10/18 05:35 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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There's a reason the first thing the government hands you is an SSN or a TIN.
Everybody pays taxes. Citizens get benefits.
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waves
Registered: 04/03/10
Posts: 2,213
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A border is an imaginary line. The only reason it exists is because a bunch of people are willing to pretend it exists.
I say we welcome everybody. Soooo many gorgeous Hispanic chicks.
TBH, I am actually more concerned about them not being able to get here fast enough.
We should be focusing on how we can expedite this, not slow it down.
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MagicMush123
moon person
Registered: 01/22/15
Posts: 5,153
Loc: Chinada
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Re: Open borders/No borders [Re: Kryptos]
#25319083 - 07/10/18 05:50 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kryptos said:
Quote:
SirTripAlot said:
Tell me .......why it would be good for humanity? Who would be in power, a world government?
We all have our immigration stances and have beat that fucking horse to a pulp, so hopefully it won't derail..... If there were no borders, there would be no immigration anyway; Convince me.
What's wrong with a world government? Wouldn't you like to be able to, say, sue Bin Laden for damages? His family is extremely wealthy. Interestingly, they are one of the bigger real estate developers in the Middle East. Same business as our president.
Plus, with a worldwide minimum wage, and worldwide labor standards, inequality would be significantly lessened. Of course, worldwide pay would also average out, so the average US citizen would lose purchasing power, but this would take a while. During this time, prices would also average out, and people would naturally migrate to the places that are most suitable to their skill sets and wealth range.
Plus, we wouldn't have to deal with conflicting international laws when it comes to use of force or extradition or whatever, we'd just be able to send a SWAT team to wherever and arrest them.
Why would you want a world government? Aren't you setting up the world for global tyranny? Most people aren't stuck with their country/government. What about when the one world government enacts laws and policies you dont like? Would you want one entity to have an iron grip over the entire earth? Where would you go? You have the freedom to change locations, but you couldn't escape the government no matter where you are
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MagicMush123
moon person
Registered: 01/22/15
Posts: 5,153
Loc: Chinada
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Re: Open borders/No borders [Re: Enlil]
#25319091 - 07/10/18 05:53 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Maybe, but for every terrorist that is advantaged by open borders, there are a million non-terrorists who are as well. Punishing the many for the wrongdoing of the few is irrational.
The border also acts as a movement tracker. They know when you enter or leave a country. Dont you think its good to restrict travel to pedophiles or serious criminals?
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Enlil
OTD God-King
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,258
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Quote:
MagicMush123 said:
Dont you think its good to restrict travel to pedophiles or serious criminals?
I think that might be the worst idea I've heard in a long, long time. If anything, it should be the opposite.
--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.
Ask an Attorney
Fuck the Amish
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waves
Registered: 04/03/10
Posts: 2,213
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Quote:
MagicMush123 said:
Quote:
Enlil said:
Maybe, but for every terrorist that is advantaged by open borders, there are a million non-terrorists who are as well. Punishing the many for the wrongdoing of the few is irrational.
The border also acts as a movement tracker. They know when you enter or leave a country. Dont you think its good to restrict travel to pedophiles or serious criminals?
Uh...NO. By that "logic" it would be even better if we had border crossing checkpoints at every state line.
That way big brother can catch all the pedophiles, right? 
No, the entire concept of borders kinda sucks. I would much rather be able to cross international borders totally freely.
Ya know what else enables pedophiles and criminals? The internet. Are you against that too?
edit: Ya know what? Why stop at state lines? Maybe we should just have checkpoints EVERYWHERE.
Police State USA
We gotta stop those bad guys, right? 
Edited by waves (07/10/18 06:10 PM)
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Kryptos
Stranger
Registered: 11/01/14
Posts: 12,644
Last seen: 6 hours, 44 minutes
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Quote:
MagicMush123 said:
Quote:
Kryptos said:
Quote:
SirTripAlot said:
Tell me .......why it would be good for humanity? Who would be in power, a world government?
We all have our immigration stances and have beat that fucking horse to a pulp, so hopefully it won't derail..... If there were no borders, there would be no immigration anyway; Convince me.
What's wrong with a world government? Wouldn't you like to be able to, say, sue Bin Laden for damages? His family is extremely wealthy. Interestingly, they are one of the bigger real estate developers in the Middle East. Same business as our president.
Plus, with a worldwide minimum wage, and worldwide labor standards, inequality would be significantly lessened. Of course, worldwide pay would also average out, so the average US citizen would lose purchasing power, but this would take a while. During this time, prices would also average out, and people would naturally migrate to the places that are most suitable to their skill sets and wealth range.
Plus, we wouldn't have to deal with conflicting international laws when it comes to use of force or extradition or whatever, we'd just be able to send a SWAT team to wherever and arrest them.
Why would you want a world government? Aren't you setting up the world for global tyranny? Most people aren't stuck with their country/government. What about when the one world government enacts laws and policies you dont like? Would you want one entity to have an iron grip over the entire earth? Where would you go? You have the freedom to change locations, but you couldn't escape the government no matter where you are
For the same reason that I want a regular government. Police, fire, roads, schools. Why is a world government automatically more corrupt and tyrannous than a Trump government? Or a state government? I've asked the question before, at what point does a community become a tyranny, and you, I believe, brought up Dunbar's number. That's 150 people. Considering three generations alive, that's barely enough people to get a metalworking industry going. Either way, it's smaller than a state, or a city, or even a country town (that has a stop sign).
Sure, you open the door for world tyranny, but you also open the door to world cooperation.
Second, you discount the possibility of a state system as is practiced in virtually every government ever. Sure, basic standards would be set by the world government. Things we can all agree on. Like murder. The rest can be up to the states.
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Enlil
OTD God-King
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,258
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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You just implied that it was a good idea to only allow criminals and pedophiles to travel. How is that a good idea?
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Ask an Attorney
Fuck the Amish
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waves
Registered: 04/03/10
Posts: 2,213
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Re: Open borders/No borders [Re: Enlil]
#25319123 - 07/10/18 06:12 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
You just implied that it was a good idea to only allow criminals and pedophiles to travel. How is that a good idea?
I didn't read what he said carefully enough. lol. I'm assuming he meant pedophiles and criminals should not be allowed to travel, but then again I probably shouldn't make any assumptions.
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Seriously_trippin
Cosmic Guru Ganesh
Registered: 07/12/13
Posts: 14,655
Last seen: 53 minutes, 55 seconds
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Re: Open borders/No borders [Re: waves]
#25319139 - 07/10/18 06:20 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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The promise of complete open borders would be a nightmare and I never thought the Democratic party should've ran with that during election year.
--------------------
R.I.P
Zombi3, Blue Helix
Modest Mouse
Zappa
Slothie
That Kid With The face
ShLong
Le Canard
split_by_nine
& Big Worm Forever
Etched in the sands of time in the shroomery and ever so beloved and deeply missed by many 
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waves
Registered: 04/03/10
Posts: 2,213
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Quote:
Seriously_trippin said:
The promise of complete open borders would be a nightmare and I never thought the Democratic party should've ran with that during election year.
The Democrats will probably continue to lose elections, but a borderless world is definitely inevitable 
Might not be for decades, or 100 more years, or longer. But eventually borders just won't be practical anymore.
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MagicMush123
moon person
Registered: 01/22/15
Posts: 5,153
Loc: Chinada
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Re: Open borders/No borders [Re: Kryptos]
#25319154 - 07/10/18 06:27 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kryptos said:
Quote:
MagicMush123 said:
Quote:
Kryptos said:
Quote:
SirTripAlot said:
Tell me .......why it would be good for humanity? Who would be in power, a world government?
We all have our immigration stances and have beat that fucking horse to a pulp, so hopefully it won't derail..... If there were no borders, there would be no immigration anyway; Convince me.
What's wrong with a world government? Wouldn't you like to be able to, say, sue Bin Laden for damages? His family is extremely wealthy. Interestingly, they are one of the bigger real estate developers in the Middle East. Same business as our president.
Plus, with a worldwide minimum wage, and worldwide labor standards, inequality would be significantly lessened. Of course, worldwide pay would also average out, so the average US citizen would lose purchasing power, but this would take a while. During this time, prices would also average out, and people would naturally migrate to the places that are most suitable to their skill sets and wealth range.
Plus, we wouldn't have to deal with conflicting international laws when it comes to use of force or extradition or whatever, we'd just be able to send a SWAT team to wherever and arrest them.
Why would you want a world government? Aren't you setting up the world for global tyranny? Most people aren't stuck with their country/government. What about when the one world government enacts laws and policies you dont like? Would you want one entity to have an iron grip over the entire earth? Where would you go? You have the freedom to change locations, but you couldn't escape the government no matter where you are
For the same reason that I want a regular government. Police, fire, roads, schools. Why is a world government automatically more corrupt and tyrannous than a Trump government? Or a state government? I've asked the question before, at what point does a community become a tyranny, and you, I believe, brought up Dunbar's number. That's 150 people. Considering three generations alive, that's barely enough people to get a metalworking industry going. Either way, it's smaller than a state, or a city, or even a country town (that has a stop sign).
Sure, you open the door for world tyranny, but you also open the door to world cooperation.
Second, you discount the possibility of a state system as is practiced in virtually every government ever. Sure, basic standards would be set by the world government. Things we can all agree on. Like murder. The rest can be up to the states.
It would most likely be the former. Any time you give a small group of people power over everything. Greed and corruption slowly seep in, and the next thing you know, you are living under tyranny. Sure trump can be a dictator and if you dont like his style of governing you can always move to Canada or overseas. You can escape it. You cannot escape a one world government. Simply concentrating the power to few is a recipe for disaster
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MagicMush123
moon person
Registered: 01/22/15
Posts: 5,153
Loc: Chinada
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Re: Open borders/No borders [Re: Enlil]
#25319160 - 07/10/18 06:30 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
MagicMush123 said:
Dont you think its good to restrict travel to pedophiles or serious criminals?
I think that might be the worst idea I've heard in a long, long time. If anything, it should be the opposite.
Hows that a terrible idea? Isn't it a good idea to keep tabs on certain types of criminals? Like if a pedo wants to go to Thailand or something, shouldn't he be stopped?
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Seriously_trippin
Cosmic Guru Ganesh
Registered: 07/12/13
Posts: 14,655
Last seen: 53 minutes, 55 seconds
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Re: Open borders/No borders [Re: waves]
#25319166 - 07/10/18 06:33 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
waves said:
Quote:
Seriously_trippin said:
The promise of complete open borders would be a nightmare and I never thought the Democratic party should've ran with that during election year.
The Democrats will probably continue to lose elections, but a borderless world is definitely inevitable
Might not be for decades, or 100 more years, or longer. But eventually borders just won't be practical anymore.
Why not?
--------------------
R.I.P
Zombi3, Blue Helix
Modest Mouse
Zappa
Slothie
That Kid With The face
ShLong
Le Canard
split_by_nine
& Big Worm Forever
Etched in the sands of time in the shroomery and ever so beloved and deeply missed by many
|
Kryptos
Stranger
Registered: 11/01/14
Posts: 12,644
Last seen: 6 hours, 44 minutes
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Tell me .......why it would be good for humanity? Who would be in power, a world government?
We all have our immigration stances and have beat that fucking horse to a pulp, so hopefully it won't derail..... If there were no borders, there would be no immigration anyway; Convince me.
What's wrong with a world government? Wouldn't you like to be able to, say, sue Bin Laden for damages? His family is extremely wealthy. Interestingly, they are one of the bigger real estate developers in the Middle East. Same business as our president.
Plus, with a worldwide minimum wage, and worldwide labor standards, inequality would be significantly lessened. Of course, worldwide pay would also average out, so the average US citizen would lose purchasing power, but this would take a while. During this time, prices would also average out, and people would naturally migrate to the places that are most suitable to their skill sets and wealth range.
Plus, we wouldn't have to deal with conflicting international laws when it comes to use of force or extradition or whatever, we'd just be able to send a SWAT team to wherever and arrest them.
Why would you want a world government? Aren't you setting up the world for global tyranny? Most people aren't stuck with their country/government. What about when the one world government enacts laws and policies you dont like? Would you want one entity to have an iron grip over the entire earth? Where would you go? You have the freedom to change locations, but you couldn't escape the government no matter where you are
For the same reason that I want a regular government. Police, fire, roads, schools. Why is a world government automatically more corrupt and tyrannous than a Trump government? Or a state government? I've asked the question before, at what point does a community become a tyranny, and you, I believe, brought up Dunbar's number. That's 150 people. Considering three generations alive, that's barely enough people to get a metalworking industry going. Either way, it's smaller than a state, or a city, or even a country town (that has a stop sign).
Sure, you open the door for world tyranny, but you also open the door to world cooperation.
Second, you discount the possibility of a state system as is practiced in virtually every government ever. Sure, basic standards would be set by the world government. Things we can all agree on. Like murder. The rest can be up to the states.
It would most likely be the former. Any time you give a small group of people power over everything. Greed and corruption slowly seep in, and the next thing you know, you are living under tyranny. Sure trump can be a dictator and if you dont like his style of governing you can always move to Canada or overseas. You can escape it. You cannot escape a one world government. Simply concentrating the power to few is a recipe for disaster
Why is a one world government concentrating power to the few? I haven't said anything about how the government would operate. Maybe it would be a true one world democracy, where every living human voted on every single decision.
Of course, I personally like a representative system. Sorta like congress.
I don't like the idea of the president of the biggest economy dictating world policy, much like I don't like the idea of billionaires controlling the current government. I figure a one world system will at least allow some sort of control for that. The UN was supposed to do that, up until the US disassembled the UN and removed the non "America, fuck yeah!" parts.
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Enlil
OTD God-King
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,258
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Open borders/No borders [Re: waves]
#25319193 - 07/10/18 06:44 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
waves said:
The Democrats will probably continue to lose elections, but a borderless world is definitely inevitable
Once humans are extinct, yes.
--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.
Ask an Attorney
Fuck the Amish
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waves
Registered: 04/03/10
Posts: 2,213
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Re: Open borders/No borders [Re: Enlil]
#25319214 - 07/10/18 06:55 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
waves said:
The Democrats will probably continue to lose elections, but a borderless world is definitely inevitable
Once humans are extinct, yes.
Or until a pandemic leaves too few remaining survivors and they are unable to maintain borders...or an infinite number of other possible causes.
Edited by waves (07/10/18 07:14 PM)
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waves
Registered: 04/03/10
Posts: 2,213
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Quote:
Seriously_trippin said:
Quote:
waves said:
Quote:
Seriously_trippin said:
The promise of complete open borders would be a nightmare and I never thought the Democratic party should've ran with that during election year.
The Democrats will probably continue to lose elections, but a borderless world is definitely inevitable
Might not be for decades, or 100 more years, or longer. But eventually borders just won't be practical anymore.
Why not?
Well, I'm talking about the very long term here, but eventually we will either learn to live without borders, one group will overpower the rest and take the rest of the land by force, or we will destroy each other. Or a pandemic wipes most people out and borders won't exist anymore, etc. There are an infinite number of possible causes, but history has shown us that man-made borders usually don't last very long. As we grow increasingly globally connected, it just seems pretty unlikely to me they will be around forever.
Edited by waves (07/10/18 07:15 PM)
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis
Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 7,660
Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
Last seen: 9 hours, 11 minutes
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Is open borders synonymous with lax national security? Why or why not?
Wouldn't open borders decrease a sense of nationalism(you fuckers better still say the pledge ,lol)?
--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
|
Patlal
You ask too many questions
Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,836
Loc: Ottawa
Last seen: 10 hours, 36 minutes
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Re: Open borders/No borders [Re: SirTripAlot] 1
#25319399 - 07/10/18 08:06 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
SirTripAlot said:
Tell me .......why it would be good for humanity? Who would be in power, a world government?
We all have our immigration stances and have beat that fucking horse to a pulp, so hopefully it won't derail..... If there were no borders, there would be no immigration anyway; Convince me.
Canada/US, wide open border. no check ups.
Europe is too complicated to do that as easily
The rest of the world still have too many issues to deal with before countries open borders.
I think individual negotiations could land a Canada/US/UK treaty could be achieved, but it would have to be specific country to country deals. Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, India.... The Commonwealth is an incredibly loyal group of Allies to negotiate with each other. It's spread worldwide. There's a friendly port wherever on earth you decide to sail to. Just go to the right countries and your rights will be protected.
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waves
Registered: 04/03/10
Posts: 2,213
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Re: Open borders/No borders [Re: Patlal]
#25319406 - 07/10/18 08:08 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Patlal said:
Quote:
SirTripAlot said:
Tell me .......why it would be good for humanity? Who would be in power, a world government?
We all have our immigration stances and have beat that fucking horse to a pulp, so hopefully it won't derail..... If there were no borders, there would be no immigration anyway; Convince me.
Canada/US, wide open border. no check ups.
Europe is too complicated to do that as easily
The rest of the world still have too many issues to deal with before countries open borders.
I think individual negotiations could land a Canada/US/UK treaty could be achieved, but it would have to be specific country to country deals. Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, India.... The Commonwealth is an incredibly loyal group of Allies to negotiate with each other. It's spread worldwide. There's a friendly port wherever on earth you decide to sail to. Just go to the right countries and your rights will be protected.
Agreed, the fact that there are checkpoints between the US and Canada is insane to me.
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Enlil
OTD God-King
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,258
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Quote:
MagicMush123 said:
Quote:
Enlil said:
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MagicMush123 said:
Dont you think its good to restrict travel to pedophiles or serious criminals?
I think that might be the worst idea I've heard in a long, long time. If anything, it should be the opposite.
Hows that a terrible idea? Isn't it a good idea to keep tabs on certain types of criminals? Like if a pedo wants to go to Thailand or something, shouldn't he be stopped?
It's a terrible idea because criminals and paedophiles deserve no special privileges. Can you explain why travel should only be available to these people?
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MagicMush123
moon person
Registered: 01/22/15
Posts: 5,153
Loc: Chinada
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Re: Open borders/No borders [Re: waves]
#25319420 - 07/10/18 08:16 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
waves said:
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Seriously_trippin said:
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waves said:
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Seriously_trippin said:
The promise of complete open borders would be a nightmare and I never thought the Democratic party should've ran with that during election year.
The Democrats will probably continue to lose elections, but a borderless world is definitely inevitable
Might not be for decades, or 100 more years, or longer. But eventually borders just won't be practical anymore.
Why not?
Well, I'm talking about the very long term here, but eventually we will either learn to live without borders, one group will overpower the rest and take the rest of the land by force, or we will destroy each other. Or a pandemic wipes most people out and borders won't exist anymore, etc. There are an infinite number of possible causes, but history has shown us that man-made borders usually don't last very long. As we grow increasingly globally connected, it just seems pretty unlikely to me they will be around forever.
Maybe if implemented slowly and thoroughly over a long period of time, it could work. But suddenly implementing such a policy would create chaos
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MagicMush123
moon person
Registered: 01/22/15
Posts: 5,153
Loc: Chinada
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Re: Open borders/No borders [Re: Enlil]
#25319426 - 07/10/18 08:18 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
MagicMush123 said:
Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
MagicMush123 said:
Dont you think its good to restrict travel to pedophiles or serious criminals?
I think that might be the worst idea I've heard in a long, long time. If anything, it should be the opposite.
Hows that a terrible idea? Isn't it a good idea to keep tabs on certain types of criminals? Like if a pedo wants to go to Thailand or something, shouldn't he be stopped?
It's a terrible idea because criminals and paedophiles deserve no special privileges. Can you explain why travel should only be available to these people?
I said restrict. Obviously that means i think they should not have any privileges to travel.
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waves
Registered: 04/03/10
Posts: 2,213
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Re: Open borders/No borders [Re: SirTripAlot] 1
#25319435 - 07/10/18 08:22 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
SirTripAlot said:
Is open borders synonymous with lax national security? Why or why not?
Wouldn't open borders decrease a sense of nationalism(you fuckers better still say the pledge ,lol)?
Unless something seriously disruptive happens on a global level, I feel like a decrease in nationalism is going to be happen in many countries for sure.
On this website I talk to Australians, Canadians, Brits, Irish, etc. I identify much more with most of the people on this website than I do with most of my fellow Americans, for example.
I feel like the fact that people can interact with people in other countries so much more easily will definitely result in less nationalism, or at least I hope it does.
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Enlil
OTD God-King
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,258
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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No, you said "restrict travel to" them, not by them.
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MagicMush123
moon person
Registered: 01/22/15
Posts: 5,153
Loc: Chinada
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Re: Open borders/No borders [Re: Enlil]
#25319446 - 07/10/18 08:24 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
No, you said "restrict travel to" them, not by them.
Sorry my mistake  im gonna go out on alimb and suggest that you knew exactly what i meant, but decided to grill me anyways. At least you're helping to improve my English
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis
Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 7,660
Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
Last seen: 9 hours, 11 minutes
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Re: Open borders/No borders [Re: Enlil]
#25319451 - 07/10/18 08:27 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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You view it as a moral argument as well?
https://openborders.info/blog/favorite-arguments-open-borders/
Using the terms “geographical roulette,” Stephan Faris, author of Homelands: The Case for Open Immigration, likewise notes that “our system of passport controls, immigration restrictions, and closed borders has created a world in which few factors shape a child’s life as much as one she can do nothing about: the flag under which she was born.”
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“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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Enlil
OTD God-King
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,258
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Not really. I have no aspirations for making the world a fair place.
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Censoring opposing views since 2014.
Ask an Attorney
Fuck the Amish
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Kryptos
Stranger
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Posts: 12,644
Last seen: 6 hours, 44 minutes
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Re: Open borders/No borders [Re: SirTripAlot] 3
#25320313 - 07/11/18 09:57 AM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
SirTripAlot said:
Is open borders synonymous with lax national security? Why or why not?
Wouldn't open borders decrease a sense of nationalism(you fuckers better still say the pledge ,lol)?
Why is nationalism inherently good?
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis
Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 7,660
Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
Last seen: 9 hours, 11 minutes
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Re: Open borders/No borders [Re: Kryptos]
#25321134 - 07/11/18 06:37 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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It's not inherently good....but there are benefits to those in power.
Namely it provides a strong impetus for a perceived exceptionalism within the citizens/subjects. Look how everyone got batshit crazy over the NFL anthem thing.
It's not going anywhere soon.
--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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waves
Registered: 04/03/10
Posts: 2,213
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I'm going to stop saying the pledge or standing for the anthem just to piss off the snowflakes.
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Kryptos
Stranger
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Re: Open borders/No borders [Re: waves]
#25321818 - 07/12/18 07:37 AM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
SirTripAlot said:
It's not inherently good....but there are benefits to those in power.
Namely it provides a strong impetus for a perceived exceptionalism within the citizens/subjects. Look how everyone got batshit crazy over the NFL anthem thing.
It's not going anywhere soon.
You make it sound like nationalism is a bad thing...if it's only for the people in power to control you.
Quote:
waves said:
I'm going to stop saying the pledge or standing for the anthem just to piss off the snowflakes.
Where do anthems and pledges even still happen? I haven't seen one outside of some random sporting events. I also think its weird that they play the anthem when it's two US teams playing against each other.
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis
Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 7,660
Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
Last seen: 9 hours, 11 minutes
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Re: Open borders/No borders [Re: Kryptos]
#25321844 - 07/12/18 08:05 AM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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No, you asked me if it was inherently good. Good is purely subjective. There is no objective absolute for good, in my opinion.
I have had probably one the biggest doses of nationalism while being enlisted in Marines. It can be a double edged sword, like most things.
--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
Edited by SirTripAlot (07/12/18 08:20 AM)
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Kryptos
Stranger
Registered: 11/01/14
Posts: 12,644
Last seen: 6 hours, 44 minutes
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I don't disagree with you, it's just that your above quote makes it seem like nationalism is only a good thing for the top few, and not the many.
Here's another example: The other day, I was reading an article saying that millennials don't feel as connected to their physical community, instead preferring online communities. Of course, the article was written from the perspective of "kids these days are the WORST", but it listed the top things that are considered to be "connection to the community". The list included talking to your neighbors, being friendly, and near the top was "support local business".
Personally, I don't support local businesses. Virtually at all. It makes no economic sense, for me. I can get things elsewhere cheaper. The only things I buy locally are food, and even then I get a good amount shipped in. (20lb bag of almonds from Amazon for the price of 5lbs at the store? yes please!)
Chinese clothing is exempt from the tariffs, because Ivanka's clothing line is made in China and so are MAGA hats, so I can keep buying there.
Anyway. It seems that nationalism is used as an excuse for people to make bad financial decision to "help the country".
I remember in the Soviet Union, once a month, my entire class in school would go out and everyone would be forced to buy a lottery ticket. It was first sold as "get lucky and rich!" but as people started learning probability, it became more of a "support your local community" exercise. It just made no financial sense to the people buying the tickets, but it was seen as a patriotic duty.
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