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InvisibleHumble Newcomer
Diddler de niños
I'm a teapot


Registered: 03/12/17
Posts: 1,483
Diet and nutrition
    #25273572 - 06/17/18 01:21 AM (5 years, 9 months ago)

So I guess this is where I would put this, tbh I figured with the plethora of topics including a forum just for conspiracy theories that there would be a whole one dedicated to health and nutrition.

Anyway. I'm a pretty fit guy I can do ten pull-ups and run a mile. But I want to be healthy.

So what's the latest in nutritional news? Last time I heard low carb high fat diet was good was early 2000s when Atkins got huge but then I thought Dr Atkins died of a heart attack brought on by cholesterol. But it seems to be making a comeback maybe we know more now.

I thought the healthiest long term approach was a whole foods diet, mainly of fruits and vegetables and quality lean meat (I'll never give up red meat but I did do a vegetarian diet for a while to learn a lot of new recipes and I developed a keen appreciation for freshness and that style of eating and cut back my meat by 1/2 to 2/3). Unprocessed foods was the main part, olive oil or coconut vs vegetables or soy bc of what's required to get the oil. As much fat as you can eat provided they're healthy sources, avocados, nuts, fish

I was getting geared up to have pasta quite often as that's infinitely variable and delicious, homemade breads with soups and salads, but with the finest wuality noodles / flours I could find. Plus fresh vegetables always.

Anyone a fitness nut / nutritionist ?

My BMR is around 2500-3000 calories, maybe even a little more with as hard and often as I'm working, I eat a ton and it's been a ton of crap lately.

About to do a big shopping trip and a meal prep day


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How I made my mush GH

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Invisibleds442
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Registered: 04/02/18
Posts: 374
Re: Diet and nutrition [Re: Humble Newcomer]
    #25273834 - 06/17/18 07:07 AM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Atkins actually fell and hit his head and was in a coma then died. Atkins was high protein low carb. Ketogenic is high fat low carb but it's pretty much the same. It's what I'm on. About 6 months ago I weighed 270 because of some medication I was on. I now weigh 190. I go to the gym 5 times a week and hike about 8 miles almost every day. I am gaining strength fast. I feel better now that I'm 40 than I did in my early 20's. Mentally as well. Carbs are like poison. They cause all kinds of shit. Mental illness, diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure and who knows what else.

Beef is really the best thing to eat or probably other red meat. Especially grass fed. Check out the vitamin and nutrient content of beef. It is complete nutrition. It does not cause heart disease. All fat raises your HDL which clears your arteries except trans fat which they now made illegal in the US. Fat is the best source of energy and is important for brain function as well as hormone production. All this bs about fat clogging arteries was because the sugar industry paid Harvard to do a study to say fat was bad when it is sugar and carbs that are bad.

Organic is the way to go if you are eating plant based stuff. They spray over 2000 chemicals on crops. They cause mental illness, cancer, and mess with your hormones. Who knows what else. It is extremely bad for the environment as well. Avoid artificial ingredients too. A lot of companies are taking them out. Trader Joes and Aldi has no artificial crap in the food they sell.

Humans evolved eating mainly meat. It's not like there were fields of vegetables growing every where and that stuff is only good for a short time. Our systems don't absorb nutrients from plants like they do from meat. They have done studies on tribes that eat only meat and found the are extremely healthy. No chronic diseases. Great dental health as well.

I had Schizophrenia for 3 years. I know it was from non organic. I started eating vegan for a while and it got a lot worse. It was all carbs I was eating. I cured myself through diet and exercise. I feel amazing now.

I have been eating tons of beef for the last 10 years and haven't been sick in over 8.

Nutrition is everything.

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InvisibleHumble Newcomer
Diddler de niños
I'm a teapot


Registered: 03/12/17
Posts: 1,483
Re: Diet and nutrition [Re: ds442]
    #25273894 - 06/17/18 07:44 AM (5 years, 9 months ago)

I was hoping to start a good discussion like this. I saw a post where you had mentioned keto as a positive diet and it reminded me of ketosis which was the goal of Atkins and I guess I see now the confusion, both methods eliminate carbs and so would enter a state of ketosis.

I tried eliminating carbs completely once when I was maybe 19 but I know I didn't do a good job like I could now balancing my macro nutrients, and I rmemeber after 48 hours when my body was fully depleted of carbs I couldn't even do three push-ups and I didn't want to work.

The American public school system failed me and countless others by having a poor health curriculum, I was only required to take one class and it was P.E. level education. Everythinf I've learned has been self study for tbe most part

I've always held that fats were good with a little selection about them. Natural oils like fish nuts avocados. Easy to extract oils for cooking like olive or coconut. Vegetable oils like soybean for example weren't available until the industrial revolution bc of the heat/temperature needed and sometimes even solvents are used for extraction I've read. Avoid saturated fat, if the broth of the stew congeals thicker than jello it may be unhealthy - does the saturated fat = unhealthy rule still apply in your book?

Fats are important bc they're part of a balanced meal, energy is released from different macro nutrients at different rates.

Eat a good breakfast and you'll gain energy from sugars first then carbs then protein and then fat.

If you go fat free diet you're missing that last block of energy coming in and will need calories again sooner is what I've always heard.

I can understand how meat can be vital to us and how our past tells us this, they say we became homo sapiens 150,000 - 200,000 years ago and that there was a doubling of the brain cavity and this is what really set us apart and on our way and what spurred this was an increase in daily calories, we began eating a lot of meat and rapidly developing a bigger smarter hunters brain to ensure this steady supply of meat.

At first glance it's laughable to think of vegetarians today and their views on meat considering where we came from, though we have the science of nutrition  and industrialized farming / soy bacon fake food industry that makes it possible and easy to be vegan or vegetarian these days and survive which may not have been possible earlier.

But then I think about far eastern cultures who have had rice as the nutritional cornerstone for who knows how long. Typical meals over there contrast starkly to meals here in America, they'll have a single piece of meat to flavor a whole pot sometimes, here in three weeks half the US is going to gorge on 2 chicken legs a thigh a hamburger and a hot dog all  in one fourth of July setting.

There's a lot of disinformation out there, every approach is hailed as king somewhere.

PS are you near a state park or the mountains or something? Oh how nice that sounds long regular hikes


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How I made my mush GH

Edited by Humble Newcomer (06/17/18 08:57 AM)

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InvisibleHumble Newcomer
Diddler de niños
I'm a teapot


Registered: 03/12/17
Posts: 1,483
Re: Diet and nutrition [Re: Humble Newcomer]
    #25274147 - 06/17/18 10:11 AM (5 years, 9 months ago)

I've been doing some studying and there are naturally occurring trans fats in beef and it's not a miniscule number either.

Crisco used to have 1.5g trans fat per tablespoon and a burger patty can have a quarter gram of naturally occurring trans fats.

No definitive answer on whether naturally occurring trans fats have same negative effects as artificial.

Which is interesting too, artificial trans fats mainly seem to stem from the process of making hydrogenated oils, adding hydrogen to oils to make them more solid for shelf life and texture. These oils and margarines then go into all kinds of popcorns cakes cookies all kinds of stuff.

The closer we can get to whole unadulterated foods the better it seems. Wikipedia says it could cost up to 6.2 billion for the food industry to research substitute ingredients, change recipes, retool assembly lines etc over the next twenty years due to trans fat ban but it will save a projected 140billion in healthcare costs over that same time

Fascinating


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How I made my mush GH

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InvisibleHumble Newcomer
Diddler de niños
I'm a teapot


Registered: 03/12/17
Posts: 1,483
Re: Diet and nutrition [Re: Humble Newcomer]
    #25363537 - 08/03/18 02:33 AM (5 years, 7 months ago)

Everywhere I look the healthy thing now is low carb high fat diet. (LCHF)

So I've spent what lite free time i have tbe past week or two researching it a little bit and reading all the pro LCHF science and at the same time my Reddit viewing habits constantly send a different health message.

The picture that's becoming clear in my head? All this LCHF diet talk is bullshit and or recycled old health news.

I've read a few but I'll be referring mainly to the overinflated "ditch the carbs" website which is a regular contributor to the Huffington Post and so I will gladly pick them apart in the hopes of engaging someone here who can shed more light if I'm wrong, or if I'm right maybe my frustrated rant will make others take some interest in what goes in our bodies.

They have paragraph after bloated paragraph of why you should choose this diet but it boils down to just a few things, I'll save you a dose of Excedrin and tell you the cliff notes

Cholesterol is not bad. They cut and pasted a huge section as to what functions cholesterol plays in our bodies, but they never point out that we, like most animals, create our own cholesterol, all we need in fact. So yes, there is no need to avoid it like carrion, but no, there is no need at all to seek it out, much less make it so important its half the acronym.

This also opens a lot of doors, because see this is just rewrapping of what was known ten years ago the last time I dug around for health research. Eat all the nuts, avocado etc you want, fat has always been part of a balanced meal, balanced for anyone who looks it up means all of rhe macro nutrient groups were accounted for, each one releasing it's energy stores at different times, first sugars then carbs then proteins then fats. But to name a diet after high fat easily sounds enticing, my mouth was watering til i realized its the same old advice recycled. I guarantee this is by design, Atkins had great success bc at the time it was flouted you could eat all the bacon you wanted, pork rinds, ribs, etc, diets have to be sold, where most are sold as "you won't even feel hungry!", this was sold as an endulgence diet. Thats a slippery slope with people's expectations and it's a sales tactic when you consider that advice has been around for a decade plus and wasn't touted as high fat, it was presented as "eat good fats, eat balanced meals". Nothing's changed

They spemd the next half talking about why carbs are bad, because we create Insulin to control the blood sugar spike and diabetics have trouble with this and it creates all kinds of issues but if you avoid carbs u never have this issue.

....

And more than one site stops there. Yeah, and how does this relate to non diabetics? How does this relate to the glycemic index and the many diets derived at picking your carbs and focusing on whole grains and proper portions and ratios instead of avoidance? How about the fact that rice is a staple food for more than half tbe world, that rice and bread have literally carried us further than meat has, and it was meat that lead to the doubling of our brain capacity and led to us becoming homo sapiens? High glycemic index cards have been hotly contested for a decade plus for this reason, again nothing new. And no information whatsoever on how this diet cam be bad for a non diabetic except the catch all phrase, "too much carbs can lead to hyperinsulinism and cause issues".

Well, shoot, "everything in moderation" has beem the cardinal rule in nutrition for a full century, so they really rewrapped old news there. Even water can kill, water poisoning is real, though mostly seen in people rescued from the desert and they drink themselves to death.

Ditch the carbs then takes an extra greasy step by name dropping the Lyon diet heart study and saying that it was terminated early because of how many people in tbe standard diet control group were DYING of their horrible diet and, I must admit, it was worded pretty convincingly it was wondering if I'd have to shop for different stuff next time i went tk the store.

But unlike most "1,000,000 subscribers" to this diet website or the Huffington Post which feeds a massive liberal audience this shit in a silver spoon, I did thirty minutes of research and found out that yes while a lot of people died and it caused rbe study to end early, people in both groups including the high fat mediterrian diet that was being clouted as the diet of tomorrow had deaths over the studys course.

Also.. upon further examination, there was negliglble difference in LdL level, weight, hdl level or the other dozen bio metrics ran, the forced conclusion after 19 of the planned 27month long study was there was negliglble difference in the two vastly different diets. It was cited as fear mongering shock value and was probably never researched before it was posted. These things are immediate red flags.

And as a bonus, if you look even closer, the "high fat" diet that was being shoved in your face had severe restrictions including NO lamb or beef, all meat was to be replaced by poultry and there was a scientifically formulated margarine akin to olive oil they we're using with specific oleic acid content, and a bunch of other specific parameters i don't understand.

At the end of the day i am finding zero new information in any of these low carb diet. I'm confused because some of these sites don't sell anything, what do they gain from regurgitating twisted nutritional news they clearly didn't realize or fully understand, I don't know, but i do know there are far too many people out there with nothing to do and all of a sudden they wamt to get involved, and they puke their half consistent glop into a domain called "Ashley's health corner" or whatever. Its a cute thing for her circle of girlfriend's amd it takes off and they change the name to seem more legit, eventually attracting big name newsletters and getting a minor internet article deal. And then search engines algorithms bring us there. They don't have to be right to show up in our search, and they don't have to be malicious to be spreading wrong information.

Further more, none of them have counter arguments for the points that the vegetarian arguments put forward, massive consumption of animal cholesterol is stored in artery walls and becomes plaque and blockage, we make enough cholesterol as is. They show vials of blood taken after a typical American high fat meal and when the blood separates you can see the fat separate amd it's white thick nasty.

At the end of the day nothing has changed, people will always polish up shit and repurpose it to a stranger for a profit. If anything, I have found the low carb craze to be pseudo science, a twist on the recent discoveries that saturated fat isn't as bad as it was said to be as well as others

All of tbr information i read about why they want me to raise my saturated fat k take was to raise my HDL to LDL ratio, which improves how well the HDL can carry fats to the liver and dispose of them. But that can be done in other ways, if your tire is overfill a little you don't slash your tire with a broadsword, you get a toothpick and depress the Schrader valve.

I'm no expert, and as Ds442 pointed out he has lost a substantial amount of weight and i applaud him for that. Inspiration can come from anywhere and if a diet inspires, then it is good already.

For many, maybe most, a public education system that doesn't fail us would be enough. We as a society have known about daily caloric needs and basal metabolic rates for a long time, the simple knowledge of how many calories you as an individual need, what ratio of macro nutrients to get the calories from (ie 35% protein 25% fat 35% carb etc) these simple guidelines i was never taught, and they were all i needed to stay carving out tbe body i wanted and helping a friend to do the same. Why wasn't i taught useful information In health and physical education, the state literally pays thousands per year for our kids to be around physical education teachers and no real healthy eating planning is taken. There's a class in high school for how to hand stitch pillows amd bake a pizza In an oven but not how to make healthy food choices, caluclate your caloric requirements and keep a food journal and by math project your weight loss ans track it im real time as u work out and achieve it. I had to learn these things on my own time as an adult and i find myself in a minority.

I'm proud to say I'm in the best shape ofy life and I'm older than I've ever been. But how is my health? Why do all these healthy fifty year olds drop dead of a heart attack even though they're ripped amd run two miles daily and doctors say they're bullet proof?

I've been reading abour cardio cat scans for a calcium score, preventative measures to see a heart attack before it happens. Preventative medicine and diet is important. They made a documentary called the widow maker about US health care and lack of preventative procedures like this calcium cat scan bc it's not as profitable.

Wish I had more to go on, but I think I'll treat carbs like i treat meat aftef going vegetarian for a few weeks and seeing all the layers and colors i was missing. Meat and carbs should both done in moderation, imo way less than tbe common American does, and when they are done they're done to higher quality and enjoyment. I use a little meat, of high quality amd cooked exceptionally to flavor a large pot of food or a huge bed of vegetables. I find myself going for more seconds vegetables while there's still half my first portion of meat on my plate. Give the meat flavor to the dish, you don't have to consume that much.

A little goes a long way. Same with a quality pasta dish.


Eat well
Love well


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How I made my mush GH

Edited by Humble Newcomer (08/03/18 03:02 AM)

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InvisibleHumble Newcomer
Diddler de niños
I'm a teapot


Registered: 03/12/17
Posts: 1,483
Re: Diet and nutrition [Re: Humble Newcomer]
    #25365146 - 08/03/18 07:45 PM (5 years, 7 months ago)

I've found legumes to be a large missing link in my diet


Still not knowing what to eat, i pieced together a meal tonight like usual starting with a meat choice, today it was a 4oz slice of beef I cooked in a non stick in its own juices, it was put on a humongous bed of coarsely sliced and slightly underdone bellpepper amd onion slices (sauteed in coconut oil) and I had a bowl of all day 15 bean soup I made yesterday. After playing it up i realized usually I would have garlic mashed or a sweet dinner roll or a small pasta side but the heaviness and depth of flavor fr simmering 15 types of beans into a homogenous paste really did wonders.

I wad abke to have a small slice of steak stabbed on my fork with translucent onion and shiny peppers all being dipped into the dense bean paste, all my senses were satisfied, the thickness of the beans helped fill my empty stomach after a full work day and a good run, nothing was missed. I was so surprised.

I've read a lot lately how healthy legumes are and even though theyre heavy madeup of carbs they seem to be allowed in all LCHF diets.  Which makes sense the deeper you look because arent most vegetables mainly carbs? So again it's to the glycemic index and how that particular carbohydrate affects blood sugar as to whether even low carb diets have issues with high carb containing vegetables and legumes.

I found myself noticing that by incorporating way more vegetables (and not being scared to use olive or coconut oil to help caramelize some flavor) and a variety of healthy and delicious legume choices (sauteed kidney or Lima beans maybe in a butter, havent done tnay yet, black eyed peas are occasional but best thing in the world when you're craving it, refried beans homemade from leftover all day simmered beans, all day simmer beans which are homemade so sodium content is manageable, etc)

It may be that LCHF diets end up at tbe same result I'm kinda ending up at, its weird how my meal accidentally became eligible for that diet.

None of the sites I've read have referred to ketosis and whether that's desired either, there's a big difference between moderation and complete avoidance. I want a heavy pasta dish from time to time for sure, I just learned olive garden has a pasta pass for $100 and it's all u can eat dor like six weeks or something. I have no chance of getting one but there's a dude who did what i would do, racked up over $1000 in Olive garden meals, literally every meal every day lol. Mmmm. Pasta


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How I made my mush GH

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Offlinedvp2361
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Registered: 11/17/12
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Loc: Orange County, CA Flag
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Re: Diet and nutrition [Re: Humble Newcomer]
    #25545006 - 10/17/18 03:14 PM (5 years, 5 months ago)

So I lived on an Organic farm couple years back and it totally changed my idea of food, what it is, where does it come from, etc. Along with some deeply introspective experiences while enjoying mushrooms, I've been on a quest to learn what is food, what is health, whats really wealth.

Somewhere along the way I found this:


Its changed how I think about everything. Game changing perspective on food/plants and where health/nutrition really comes from. He also has a workshop if you can sit through the 8 hours you'll be a better farmer/grower afterwards:


Dan Kittredge is the man. The Real Food Campaign and the Bionutrient Food Association are making huge strides in making nutrition a thing again in our food supply.

The food future is looking bright!

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InvisibleAroundtheSon
Learning to See
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Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 4,427
Loc: Midwest.
Re: Diet and nutrition [Re: dvp2361]
    #25571847 - 10/27/18 04:06 PM (5 years, 4 months ago)

You would probably enjoy Michael Pollans writing.

Cooked
Omnivore's Dilemma
How to change your mind (psychedelic).

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