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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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There's no hope and no future * 1
    #25270010 - 06/15/18 02:49 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

But there is rage
And fire
Destroy what destroys you
No mercy to the oppressors system
Fuck a workerist mass movement
Insurrection wherever you are
Fight back
We're all doomed
But we don't have to go quietly

I don’t participate in anarchist struggle because I think we will save the world. On the contrary, I fight because I know that one day the whole world will be destroyed—the earth will be consumed by the sun, leaving only ash—and when that day comes, I want the story that ends to be a story of beauty and tragedy and resistance to tyranny. I want the story we live to be a story of joy and courage and togetherness.

I fight because it is a way of remembering those who came before us, because it is a way of honoring the creativity and rebelliousness of my contemporaries, because it is an act of care for everyone else whose heart breaks to see injustice and misfortune. I fight because I know that there is no happily ever after, there is no salvation waiting for us at the end of history; there is just what we do together today. That is all the beauty and meaning in the world that there will ever be, and it can be more than enough.

We fight because we like it.


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Offlineqman
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Re: There's no hope and no future [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #25270050 - 06/15/18 03:07 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

You fight an imaginary enemy because you're full of fear and paranoia.

At least the children dressed in black have an excuse, they're young and emotional. They have been indoctrinated by their superiors and will most likely grow out of the phase when they enter the real world.

Humans are tribal and you hitched your wagon to this tribe, hopefully it remains a harmless hobby of yours and nobody ever gets seriously hurt. I don't think you're going to grow out of it anytime soon, like a religious fanatic you would have too much to lose at this point.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: There's no hope and no future [Re: qman]
    #25270078 - 06/15/18 03:16 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Obedience to a higher power is biblically right, no matter their legitimacy. This is why qman loved Obama from 2008-2016, and worshipped him as the good emperor while he was legitimately elected to power, and did not in any way, shape, or form question His authority.


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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: There's no hope and no future [Re: qman]
    #25270094 - 06/15/18 03:26 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
You fight an imaginary enemy because you're full of fear and paranoia.



Nah brah, didn't you read the post? I fight because I like it.


Quote:

At least the children dressed in black have an excuse, they're young and emotional.



So you're saying I'm old and rational. Nice  :cool:


Quote:

I don't think you're going to grow out of it anytime soon



Something we can agree on.


Quote:

you would have too much to lose at this point.



How so? I could easily get a job in one of the Yukon goldmines and just go with the flow. It would be simple.



Mostly this thread is directed at those who argue anarchism is an impossible utopian vision, and those who feel overwhelmed by the struggle. I don't fight for a vague future revolution - my revolution is now and I fight because I like it.

In the words of the late great Renzo Novatore:
Quote:

History, materialism, monism, positivism and all the isms of this world are old and rusty tools which I don’t need or mind anymore. My principle is life and my end is death. I wish to live my life intensely and embrace my death tragically.

You are waiting for the revolution? Let it be! My own began a long time ago! When you are ready (god, what an endless wait!) I won’t mind going with you for a while. But when you stop, I shall continue on my way toward the great and sublime conquest of the nothing!

Any society that you build will have its limits. And outside the limits of any society, unruly and heroic tramps will wander with their wild and virgin thought — those who cannot live without planning ever new and dreadful outbursts of rebellion! I shall be among them!

And after me, as before me, there will be those saying to their fellows: “So turn to yourselves rather than to your gods and idols. Find what hides within you and bring it to the light; show yourselves!”

Because every person who, searching his own inwardness, extracts what was mysteriously hidden therein is a shadow eclipsing any form of society which can exist under the sun!

All societies tremble when the scornful aristocracy of tramps, inaccessibles, unique ones, rulers over the ideal and conquerors of the nothing resolutely advances. So, come on, icononclasts, forward!

Already the foreboding sky grows dark and silent!


https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/renzo-novatore-toward-the-creative-nothing


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OfflinePsilynut2
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Re: There's no hope and no future [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #25270223 - 06/15/18 04:36 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Mostly this thread is directed at those who argue anarchism is an impossible utopian




  It is , without a govt to enforce the legality of my paperwork the deed to my house would  be worthless, the title to my car would be worthless , and I wouldnt be able to keep money in a bank .


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: There's no hope and no future [Re: Psilynut2] * 2
    #25270233 - 06/15/18 04:41 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

I could have never guessed who this post would trigger.

Not in 1488 years.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: There's no hope and no future [Re: Psilynut2]
    #25270237 - 06/15/18 04:45 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Psilynut2 said:
Quote:

Mostly this thread is directed at those who argue anarchism is an impossible utopian




  It is , without a govt to enforce the legality of my paperwork the deed to my house would  be worthless, the title to my car would be worthless , and I wouldnt be able to keep money in a bank .




You don't need a government to enforce those rules, corporations would be more than happy to do so. Anarcho-capitalism, as shown somewhat well in the novel Snow Crash, could easily work.

If anything, it seems like the current US administration is pushing for that by ceding power to corporate interests.

Basically, the deed to your house wouldn't be enforced by the government, but you'd just pay rent and property taxes to the corporation that you live in and work for. Be a citizen of Walmart. Same with the title to your car-you'd simply have to go to the Walmart DMV instead of the US DMV. Of course, free market means that the lines will be shorter, right? And who says you need to put dollars in the bank? Walmart will be more than happy to give you a charge card to hold your Wal-bucks (only accepted at Walmart corporation retailers!) that they pay you. Hell, McD's and Walmart already do a lot of low end work pay on a charge card anyway.

EDIT: Plus, it would open up new and exciting investment opportunities through ForEx-imagine, instead of buying and selling US dollars and Euros and other currencies, you could set up shop and convert Wal-bucks to McDollars and back for people!


Edited by Kryptos (06/15/18 04:48 PM)


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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: There's no hope and no future [Re: Psilynut2]
    #25270248 - 06/15/18 04:49 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Psilynut2 said:
Quote:

Mostly this thread is directed at those who argue anarchism is an impossible utopian




  It is , without a govt to enforce the legality of my paperwork the deed to my house would  be worthless, the title to my car would be worthless , and I wouldnt be able to keep money in a bank .



Yeah yeah yeah.... Literally the concept of utopia and its likely impossibility is dealt with in both the OP and linked essay. Please read before commenting or you just look foolish.

We can't have a discussion if you just completely skip over listening to what I'm saying.


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Offlineqman
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Re: There's no hope and no future [Re: Kryptos]
    #25270272 - 06/15/18 05:02 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

Psilynut2 said:
Quote:

Mostly this thread is directed at those who argue anarchism is an impossible utopian




  It is , without a govt to enforce the legality of my paperwork the deed to my house would  be worthless, the title to my car would be worthless , and I wouldnt be able to keep money in a bank .




You don't need a government to enforce those rules, corporations would be more than happy to do so. Anarcho-capitalism, as shown somewhat well in the novel Snow Crash, could easily work.

If anything, it seems like the current US administration is pushing for that by ceding power to corporate interests.





How so?


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: There's no hope and no future [Re: qman]
    #25270311 - 06/15/18 05:21 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Anarcho-capitalism is the most naive ideology I've ever heard of.


All hail our benevolent corporate overlords.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: There's no hope and no future [Re: qman]
    #25270318 - 06/15/18 05:27 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

How so what? How does Anarcho-capitalism work? It's the logical extension of the free market. you pay for what you use, only. If you don't use the police, you don't pay taxes for the police. If you don't pay for fire service, the fire department doesn't show up when your house burns down.

Think of it as "removing the individual mandate", not from Obamacare, but from all taxes.

If your "how so?" is related to the government ceding power to corporations, that's the cornerstone of the current administration's priorities. Ease "government meddling", reduce the reach of government. Let corporate interests take what's left. This is obvious in several places:

1) Net Neutrality: Corporations will be regulated by the free market
2) EPA: Corporations will take care of the natural resources they exploit
3) All the big (mostly telecom) mergers being approved by Trump. For example, Sinclair's recent acquisition, which somehow is exempt from monopoly laws even though they now control what, 69% of the total broadcast market?
4) School Vouchers: The government is letting privately funded school corporations decide what to teach the kids, instead of government standards, and giving them taxpayer money to do so.
5) Trump's infrastructure plan from early this year: This is probably the best example, where Trump planned to just open up the road infrastructure to private investment (i.e. private toll roads), while cutting federal infrastructure spending.

Do you seriously wanna argue that the current administration is *in favor* of more government oversight?

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Anarcho-capitalism is the most naive ideology I've ever heard of.


All hail our benevolent corporate overlords.




I never said it was a good thing, just that it would work. Probably for a majority at first, but as money consolidated upwards, it would soon serve a rich minority of people living in heavily armed nation-states. Much like in Snow Crash, the common man would be struggling for survival in a lawless land, while simultaneously hoping to get invited into one of the nation states to work in a safe place.

A true republican utopia. You live behind your tall walls guarded by lucky poors, and if the poors kill one of your guards, you simply invite a few poors and have the fight to the death. winner is clearly guard material.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: There's no hope and no future [Re: Kryptos] * 1
    #25270353 - 06/15/18 05:43 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

It would absolutely not work.

Unmitigated corporate power is not a recipe for success.


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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: There's no hope and no future [Re: Kryptos] * 1
    #25270374 - 06/15/18 05:54 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

I just dispute the 'anarcho' prefix. The etymology of anarchy is 'without leader', and this opposition to leaders doesn't begin and end with the state. Anarchism is against all hierarchy, and capitalism is inherently hierarchical. It makes about as much sense as anarcho-nationalism.

Ayn-caps just want the militant chic of calling themselves "anarchists" without the historical and philosophical baggage that accompanies such a claim.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: There's no hope and no future [Re: The Ecstatic] * 2
    #25270457 - 06/15/18 06:54 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
It would absolutely not work.

Unmitigated corporate power is not a recipe for success.




I think we have differing definitions of "working", here. When I say "it would work" I mean: "It would not cause the extinction of humanity", not "everything will be fine".

I do think that the "less gub'ment!" conservatives on this board should be backing me up here, though. What's with this bullshit forcing me to buy police and fire services? I don't call the cops! I don't get robbed! I've never had my house burn down, just my car, and that was done burning by the time fire even got there!

Why the hell am I forced to pay for all of these services I don't use? Insurance? Blasphemy! This is Obamacops!


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OfflinePsilynut2
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Re: There's no hope and no future [Re: Kryptos]
    #25270478 - 06/15/18 07:01 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Be a citizen of Walmart. Same with the title to your car-you'd simply have to go to the Walmart DMV instead of the US DMV. Of course, free market means that the lines will be shorter, right? And 






No , if its dmv is anything like its store there will be 25 windows and only 4 open .


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: There's no hope and no future [Re: Psilynut2]
    #25270522 - 06/15/18 07:21 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Psilynut2 said:
Quote:

Be a citizen of Walmart. Same with the title to your car-you'd simply have to go to the Walmart DMV instead of the US DMV. Of course, free market means that the lines will be shorter, right? And 






No , if its dmv is anything like its store there will be 25 windows and only 4 open .




Even with 4 windows open, that's gonna be better than the local DMV. I usually drive 50 miles out of town to the bumfuck nowhere DMV because its faster than waiting in line at the DMV by my house.

I've never waited more than 5 minutes in a Walmart line.

Of course, once the only option becomes the Wal-DMV, I'm guessing lines will extend. Monopolies tend to do that.


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Re: There's no hope and no future [Re: Kryptos]
    #25270574 - 06/15/18 07:42 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Also, not exactly on topic with the spirit of the OP, but I think this news article's headline could literally be changed to the title of this thread:

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/fewer-teens-having-sex-doing-drugs-more-are-depressed-n883276

Kids have no hope, and suicide rates of the future are rising!


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Re: There's no hope and no future [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #25270580 - 06/15/18 07:45 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
But there is rage
And fire
Destroy what destroys you
No mercy to the oppressors system
Fuck a workerist mass movement
Insurrection wherever you are
Fight back
We're all doomed
But we don't have to go quietly

I don’t participate in anarchist struggle because I think we will save the world. On the contrary, I fight because I know that one day the whole world will be destroyed—the earth will be consumed by the sun, leaving only ash—and when that day comes, I want the story that ends to be a story of beauty and tragedy and resistance to tyranny. I want the story we live to be a story of joy and courage and togetherness.

I fight because it is a way of remembering those who came before us, because it is a way of honoring the creativity and rebelliousness of my contemporaries, because it is an act of care for everyone else whose heart breaks to see injustice and misfortune. I fight because I know that there is no happily ever after, there is no salvation waiting for us at the end of history; there is just what we do together today. That is all the beauty and meaning in the world that there will ever be, and it can be more than enough.

We fight because we like it.



So you feel helpless, depressed and weak and fight for the sake of fighting.  Sounds like the manifesto of a far left nut job. Even more ammunition to why anarchists are overgrown children with an aimless goal and bent on destruction. Hardly the ideology of anyone who could dare claim that they love the environment,  are caring or even remotely compassionate people. But just a bunch of losers, a loser convention if you will, of the losers of society who were bullied or wronged in some way, who feel the need to get back at evil society. Funny how most anarchists or anti fascists or whatever, are usually physically weak losers who without the powers in place( law and order) would get dominated by those physically bigger/stronger than them. Keep fighting the government and capitalism,  one broken window and knocked over garbage can at a time:cool:


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OfflinePsilynut2
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Re: There's no hope and no future [Re: Kryptos]
    #25270602 - 06/15/18 07:52 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Even with 4 windows open, that's gonna be better than the local DMV. I usually drive 50 miles out of town to the bumfuck nowhere DMV because its faster than waiting in line at the DMV by my house.

I've never waited more than 5 minutes in a Walmart line.

Of course, once the only option becomes the Wal-DMV, I'm guessing lines will extend. Monopolies tend to do that.





  Try walking into the dmv 2 minutes before they close the door. Its pretty amazing how fast they click through the numbers once everyone needs to get you out of there to avoid working overtime.
   
Still disagree , my California dmv doesn't have to make profit to please greedy shareholders. They don't care if i register my car or file non op ,  My customer service experience doesn't matter to them .
  The Walmart dmv may be faster but i will pay way more for it. The registration for my new truck i got 2 months ago was 450.  I wouldn't even be able to afford a new truck if i worked for walmart, your  super conservative idea sucks so much ...


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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: There's no hope and no future [Re: MagicMush123]
    #25270608 - 06/15/18 07:54 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Also, not exactly on topic with the spirit of the OP, but I think this news article's headline could literally be changed to the title of this thread:

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/fewer-teens-having-sex-doing-drugs-more-are-depressed-n883276

Kids have no hope, and suicide rates of the future are rising!



The title could definitely be used, but my OP is actually one of positivity for the moment, despite the nihilistic language. For the most part, I really enjoy my life. Positive nihilism or something like that.



Quote:

MagicMush123 said:
So you feel helpless, depressed and weak and fight for the sake of fighting.  Sounds like the manifesto of a far left nut job. Even more ammunition to why anarchists are overgrown children with an aimless goal and bent on destruction. Hardly the ideology of anyone who could dare claim that they love the environment,  are caring or even remotely compassionate people. But just a bunch of losers, a loser convention if you will, of the losers of society who were bullied or wronged in some way, who feel the need to get back at evil society. Funny how most anarchists or anti fascists or whatever, are usually physically weak losers who without the powers in place( law and order) would get dominated by those physically bigger/stronger than them. Keep fighting the government and capitalism,  one broken window and knocked over garbage can at a time:cool:



Who hurt you?


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