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OfflineKryptos
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Communist Trump
    #25242998 - 06/01/18 06:12 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/trump-officials-preparing-to-use-cold-war-emergency-powers-to-protect-coal-and-nuclear-plants/2018/06/01/230f0778-65a9-11e8-a69c-b944de66d9e7_story.html?utm_term=.5f5d2fd994b2

So, why communist?

We've never been a truly capitalist economy, because the government, or state, has always maintained some control. This, for almost the entire history of the US, and not counting the WWI/WWII rationing, has been done by subsidies. Which I guess I don't have a problem with, I don't mind paying less than 40$/lb of beef. I also don't mind the gasoline subsidy.

This is not a subsidy. Trump tried a subsidy last year, I don't remember it going anywhere.

This is an order, telling the power companies that they are required to buy power from coal and nuclear plants preferably. Even if it's more expensive. I wonder what's gonna happen to those prices?

The thing is, the idea of capitalism, which is what the GOP (pretend) to love, means that the market regulates itself. Innovate or die. Improve or die. Competition brings out the best of us, and the people that can't make the cut end up having to rethink their strategy. That was the big triumph compared to the state controlled five year plans of the Soviet Union. Trump has just upended the free market. Coal is not competitive. Nuclear currently isn't either. So, he's making them state sponsored industries. Five year plans.

And the thing about onsite reserves is kind of bullshit, because natural gas (the thing that's currently killing coal) can be stored on site as well in storage tanks.

It just so happens that a lot of coal barons happen to be Trump's political allies, just like Stalin's friends tended to have the best five year plans.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Communist Trump [Re: Kryptos] * 5
    #25243104 - 06/01/18 07:05 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

The merger of state and corporate power is called fascism, not communism.


Everyone seems to think that communism/socialism means "whenever the government does stuff." Infantile.


Its also infantile to believe that the government regulating business isnt REAL capitalism.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Communist Trump [Re: Kryptos]
    #25243108 - 06/01/18 07:06 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

We're squarely in the midst of an unmitigated disaster.


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OfflineXUL
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Re: Communist Trump [Re: Kryptos]
    #25243330 - 06/01/18 09:39 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Look at nearly any country and the majority of power will come from fossil fuels and nuclear. Even in Ontario, nuclear is at large.


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TRUMP 2020


Edited by XUL (06/01/18 09:40 PM)


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Communist Trump [Re: XUL] * 2
    #25243571 - 06/02/18 12:16 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Trumps obsession with coal is absurd. The coal industry employs a fraction of what the solar and wind industries employ yet he is desperate to prop up their hopes, while putting tarrifs in solar panels and severely damaging an industry that employs a half million people. Trump is an economic wrecking ball. We will be in a recession by this time next year.


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I am a violent pusher of the neo-marxist SJW agenda to destroy society.


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OfflineThundermuscle75
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Re: Communist Trump [Re: koods] * 3
    #25244178 - 06/02/18 11:56 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

People only work in wind and solar because there aren't enough coal mining jobs.

Everyone wants to work in a coal mine. There's nothing more manly than dying young of the black lung.

And let's not forget the glamour of living near the mine, all those country songs.

"I was born a coal miners daughter
We were so prosperous that servants brought me water"
That's how it goes right?

Then there's the health benefits of being in a coal communities. I have to buy my children cigarettes or we could never have that kind of life.
"people living near mountaintop mining have cancer rates of 14.4% compared to 9.4% for people elsewhere in Appalachia
the rate of children born with birth defects was 42% higher in areas near mountaintop removal mining"

https://www.kftc.org/issues/health-impacts-coal-mining


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InvisibleMagicMush123
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Re: Communist Trump [Re: koods]
    #25244535 - 06/02/18 03:38 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Trumps obsession with coal is absurd. The coal industry employs a fraction of what the solar and wind industries employ yet he is desperate to prop up their hopes, while putting tarrifs in solar panels and severely damaging an industry that employs a half million people. Trump is an economic wrecking ball. We will be in a recession by this time next year.



So they'll make the panels in America.  That would create more jobs than just the installation factor


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Communist Trump [Re: MagicMush123]
    #25244674 - 06/02/18 05:20 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

No. Not even close. Use some common sense.


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I am a violent pusher of the neo-marxist SJW agenda to destroy society.


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InvisibleMagicMush123
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Re: Communist Trump [Re: koods]
    #25244708 - 06/02/18 05:49 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Whats stopping the us from manufacturing its own solar panels? Us panels would be better built than cheap Chinese ones anyway


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Communist Trump [Re: MagicMush123] * 1
    #25244818 - 06/02/18 07:08 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Well, a us company would have to own the technology or lease it. That's a pretty big barrier. You have to assume that labor and materials would be significantly more expensive as well

The fact is the Chinese are making solar panels because their industry was invested in while the right in America has been fighting any attempt to help fund any R&D in green technology


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I am a violent pusher of the neo-marxist SJW agenda to destroy society.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Communist Trump [Re: MagicMush123]
    #25244995 - 06/02/18 09:59 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

MagicMush123 said:
Whats stopping the us from manufacturing its own solar panels? Us panels would be better built than cheap Chinese ones anyway




Chinese are years ahead on solar panel technology and infrastructure. Given a choice between Chinese and US panels, I'd take Chinese any day.



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OfflineXUL
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Re: Communist Trump [Re: Kryptos]
    #25245682 - 06/03/18 08:29 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

MagicMush123 said:
Whats stopping the us from manufacturing its own solar panels? Us panels would be better built than cheap Chinese ones anyway




Chinese are years ahead on solar panel technology and infrastructure. Given a choice between Chinese and US panels, I'd take Chinese any day.





That is an unfortunate statement, but I also would probably buy a Chinese one.


Wouldn't it be wise to allow the U.S. to learn and study solar power at home? Or buy some some Chinese engineers to bring back.


That way we won't have to support China by buying their merchandise.


--------------------
TRUMP 2020


Edited by XUL (06/03/18 08:30 AM)


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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: Communist Trump [Re: XUL]
    #25245743 - 06/03/18 09:22 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

What is the long term benefit (or short term for that matter) of starting up an industry that is already well established elsewhere? It just doesn't make sense from an economical perspective. If we develop a new solar technology that requires new factories or retrofitting existing ones then maybe get into the market, but if you're just going to do exactly what the chinese do now except with higher labor costs and at the expense of new facilities then I can't help but think it's just cutting off the nose to spite the face.


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OfflineXUL
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Re: Communist Trump [Re: krypto2000]
    #25245757 - 06/03/18 09:30 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

You make good points. I think the reason behind it would be jobs and cutting off funds to tyrant China. China locked up a million Muslims for state education. It was reported that they were forced to eat pork and Drink alcohol. China is not our friend and we shouldn't support them.

I think we need to drop a little bit of labor regulations and compete with them.


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TRUMP 2020


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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: Communist Trump [Re: XUL] * 1
    #25245768 - 06/03/18 09:35 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

I can see it for diplomatic reasons, that's a good point, but I don't buy the 'jobs' line. Jobs for the sake of jobs alone is pretty pointless, you'd be better off just paying people to do nothing at all, at least then there's a chance they might produce something in their free time. Besides that 'jobs' has never been a real issue, it's a manufactured and artificial one. It's not like there's a shortage of things that need to get done in this country or we've tapped out and reached a technological peak.

edit: And actually while such things do make sense for diplomatic reasons in the case of the solar and steel tariffs while sure they hurt China they're also hurting us as well so that's not uh.. not a good approach to say the least.


Edited by krypto2000 (06/03/18 09:39 AM)


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Communist Trump [Re: krypto2000] * 1
    #25246086 - 06/03/18 12:55 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

where is the evidence that chink panels are better than usa's? They are cheaper, thats why people buy them.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: Communist Trump [Re: Stonehenge] * 1
    #25246096 - 06/03/18 12:59 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

You just provided the evidence cracker, they're cheaper.


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