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 countrCULT
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 Do psychedelics promote a common/specific type of worldview among its users? 
#25229849 - 05/26/18 12:04 PM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
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I am curious about your thoughts on this. I think it does, but maybe not..?
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Find the others. Find your self.
Edited by countrCULT (05/26/18 12:07 PM)
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Zyiadem
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Re: Do psychedelics promote a common/specific type of worldview among its users? [Re: countrCULT]
#25229881 - 05/26/18 12:19 PM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
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Many who experience shrooms claim to feel closer to nature, others say they're teachers.
However spend some time in the pub or romper room and you'll see there's still an incredibly diverse range of worldviews and widely differing opinions.
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I don't know shit.
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 redgreenvines
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Re: Do psychedelics promote a common/specific type of worldview among its users? [Re: Zyiadem]
#25229999 - 05/26/18 01:53 PM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
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possibly but I think the stoner (weed) worldview prevails.
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sudly
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Re: Do psychedelics promote a common/specific type of worldview among its users? [Re: countrCULT]
#25230144 - 05/26/18 03:46 PM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
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Nope, from what I gather, people either see their experiences as some sort of external mystical one of influences outside themselves, and others see themselves as a part of nature and come to terms with the chance at life they have.
So it can shoot you off in the clouds or ground you depending on how you interpret the experiences you have which can be rather diverse with dose/environment/experience/setting/people etc.
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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Enkidu
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Re: Do psychedelics promote a common/specific type of worldview among its users? [Re: sudly]
#25230433 - 05/26/18 06:33 PM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
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Imo they move people closer to something. This something I believe is what you describe as this "similar worldview", for lack of better words I would say "enlightenment". But that is dependent on the individual and their use and their intent and purpose.
Since we all fall along this scale somewhere to begin with, the result is a wide range of where it then moved you along this scale, so someone further away may use them and move closer but still be much further away than for instance seone who has never used them. Or without the right intent or ourpose may move no closer at all.
Imo it undoubtedly alters perception usually in positive and beneficial ways.
This is only my opinion, but in short, I would say yes, they move you closer toward this one "world view"
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sudly
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Re: Do psychedelics promote a common/specific type of worldview among its users? [Re: Enkidu]
#25230487 - 05/26/18 07:05 PM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
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Uhh, I was saying there's probably 2 world views.. one where people realise they are a single part of nature, and another where they believe that all people are unilaterally one and sharing some sort of ethereal consciousness.
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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Enkidu
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Re: Do psychedelics promote a common/specific type of worldview among its users? [Re: sudly]
#25230524 - 05/26/18 07:27 PM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
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I think there are as many world views as there are people on this planet, and some are closer and further apart along a scale of ignorance and enlightenment
I could easily be wrong
That's just my view in response to op
I think psychedelics help people move further away from ignorance and closer to "enlightenemnt", for lack of better word
Similar world views being a result of falling close together with other individuals who are on this scale, regardless of where along that scale you are.
Probably more like a sphere where the center is "enlightenemnt" as opposed to a line
Again, I could be wrong
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Within You , Without You
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redgreenvines
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Re: Do psychedelics promote a common/specific type of worldview among its users? [Re: Enkidu]
#25230583 - 05/26/18 08:14 PM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
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infinite worldviews,
Sure there is a sense of otherness from people who have not used psychedelics, but not exactly a shared otherness with all those who have.
people have different ways of seeing and being a temple or not.
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locospacebean
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Re: Do psychedelics promote a common/specific type of worldview among its users? [Re: redgreenvines]
#25230644 - 05/26/18 08:51 PM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
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Psychedelics, perhaps opens a common door to another place but it's entirely up to each person on what they choose to do in that place and how they interpret it.
There does seem to be a type of recognition amongst those who are frequent visitors to this place, despite the people possibly having very different worldviews.
Psychedelics are a vehicle that people take to all kinds of different places.
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Edited by locospacebean (05/26/18 08:51 PM)
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MarkostheGnostic
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 Re: Do psychedelics promote a common/specific type of worldview among its users? [Re: countrCULT] 1
#25230945 - 05/27/18 01:24 AM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
countrCULT said:
I am curious about your thoughts on this. I think it does, but maybe not..?
For me, yes. I'm going to be 65 years old in July and I have been tripping since 1971. I came of age in the 1960s, (although I was 15 when Woodstock happened and wasn't able to drive or get a ride there  ). The very best ideals that came out of the mid to late 60s, the aesthetics, the music, and the philosophies that were brought to light all had an imprinting effect on my young development.
I got to meet or know some of the notables: Dr. Timothy Leary (twice, offered his shrooms once but made him paranoid), Ram Dass AKA Dr. Richard Alpert, took a weekend seminar with Dr. Jean Houston (Varieties of Psychedelic Experience), Dr. Walter Houston Clark, Jack Cassidy (bassist for Jefferson Airplane), I gave flowers to Grace Slick, hung around with Sunshine (the roady for the Grateful Dead), and was good friends in college with Sunshine's girlfriend, the late Kathy Sunderland (who managed The Dead after Jerry died). There have been others, newer than the 60s crew.
I never got into any inner circle of psychedelic pioneers, but they all influenced me and I endeavored to become an explorer on my own. Psychedelics changed the direction of my life after they dissolved the socio-cultural programming I had, they fueled my curiosity and admonished me to take Joseph Campbell's advice to "follow your bliss," which included taking academic degrees in philosophy, theology, and psychology - all disciplines which I pursued in order to better understand the Great Mystery of Consciousness that psychedelics had revealed in multi-dimensional splendor.
A "common/specific world view" might be one that is primarily determined by psychospiritual experiences that yield intuitive, visionary, or mystical glimpses into Ultimate Reality. This kind of spiritual knowledge has been called Gnosis (as opposed to empirical knowledge which may be termed epistemé in the Greek). Such Gnosis may include Faith in Ultimate Reality, whether referred to in shorthand as God, The Absolute, The ONE, or any number of other historical appellations across numerous cultural and religious traditions.
  
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Freedom
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Re: Do psychedelics promote a common/specific type of worldview among its users? [Re: countrCULT] 1
#25231878 - 05/27/18 11:55 AM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
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Increased nature relatedness and decreased authoritarian political views after psilocybin for treatment-resistant depression
Quote:
Patients showed a significant increase in nature relatedness scores 1 week after psilocybin treatment (M=4.14, SD=0.75) compared with baseline (M=3.67, SD=1.00); t(6)=−4.242, p=0.003, 95% CI [–0.75, 0.2]. The Hedges’ g value (g=2.5) for this contrast was very large, and the significant change was sustained at the 7–12-month follow-up time-point
Quote:
Patients showed a significant decrease in authoritarian political perspective 1 week after psilocybin treatment (M=2.43, SD=0.73) relative to baseline (M=2.89, SD=0.72); t(6)=2.120, p=0.039; 95% CI [–0.07, 0.99]. The Hedges’ g value (g=0.8) was found to meet the conventional criterion for a large effect size. Decreases in authoritarianism were still evident 7–12 months post-dosing (M=2.27, SD=0.68), and although this trend-level effect no longer reached conventions for statistical significance (t(5)=−1.811, p=0.065, 95% CI [–0.25, 1.46]), the relevant Hedges’ g value (g=0.7) met convention for a medium-to-large effect size, suggesting that this study was underpowered to detect a statistically significant result on this particular measure.
Also the John Hopkins team has showed psilocybin increases the big five personality trait of openness.
I'm not aware of any other relevant research.
Edited by Freedom (05/27/18 11:57 AM)
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redgreenvines
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Re: Do psychedelics promote a common/specific type of worldview among its users? [Re: Freedom]
#25231928 - 05/27/18 12:23 PM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
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Increased attunement to nature relatedness (can that be expanded upon) sounds like a likely result of observation time spent while psychedelically inebriated.
Anti-authoritarian attunement also sounds like a likely result of - experiences of a sensitive self - visited during a psychedelic session.
I wonder how they actually measure a before and after for these things. but am glad they thought to do so.
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Zanthius
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Re: Do psychedelics promote a common/specific type of worldview among its users? [Re: countrCULT]
#25232088 - 05/27/18 02:32 PM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
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If prone to religion, they might promote something like pantheism or panentheism.
If prone to philosophy, they might promote something like holism or organicism.
However, they don't seem to be as good at making new worldviews, as they are to break down old worldviews.
In contrast. Studying at a university promotes something like reductionism, articulation and precision.
So I am thinking. Studying at a univeristy without using psychedelics doesn't seem to be optimized for cognitive development, but using psychedelics without studying at a university also doesn't seem to be optimized for cognitive development.
If you want to optimize cognitive development, it seems like a good idea to both study at a university and use psychedelics.
Edited by Zanthius (05/27/18 04:10 PM)
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BrendanFlock
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Re: Do psychedelics promote a common/specific type of worldview among its users? [Re: Zanthius] 1
#25232315 - 05/27/18 04:11 PM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
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I think the best trips are deserved only by the greatest thinkers!
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Jokeshopbeard
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Re: Do psychedelics promote a common/specific type of worldview among its users? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
#25232454 - 05/27/18 05:26 PM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
Psychedelics changed the direction of my life after they dissolved the socio-cultural programming I had, they fueled my curiosity
This is exactly what they did for me. I was already a very curious person and they fuelled that no end.
My two best friends have zero interest in them though. Tried them a few times with me but they just can't get into it. They both like coke. Both powerful men, in their own rights.
I think if you're not good, or OK with letting go, then the experience will not serve you well.
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Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe
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redgreenvines
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Re: Do psychedelics promote a common/specific type of worldview among its users? [Re: Jokeshopbeard] 1
#25232545 - 05/27/18 06:08 PM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
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all good posts Zanthius, Brendan and Joke...
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MarkostheGnostic
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 Re: Do psychedelics promote a common/specific type of worldview among its users? [Re: Jokeshopbeard] 1
#25232903 - 05/27/18 10:13 PM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
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Cocaine fuels egocentricity, narcissism, and hyper-sexuality (but it can have very specific effects in this domain. e.g., I have read of and clinically experienced a relationship between cocaine use and male cross-dressing, even within marriage. https://books.google.com/books?id=xD-R7Z27UBEC&pg=PA141&lpg=PA141&dq=clinical+relationship+of+cocaine+and+male+cross-dressing&source=bl&ots=r7cUk4HWed&sig=GUaO8RSSCPdzWkcRnI62lGRYRV0&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwii6uuvu6fbAhXN2lMKHXFhB-YQ6AEIVzAE#v=onepage&q=clinical%20relationship%20of%20cocaine%20and%20male%20cross-dressing&f=false ). Cocaine therefore fuels the Root Center and the Solar Plexus Center with their associated natural functions of self-preservation (which sometimes feels paranoiacally threatened under cocaine abuse), preservation of the species (sex), and the Will-to-Power (including 'Social Interest' and status-seeking, all Adlerian psychological motives. Your "powerful men" syndrome). Cocaine is also quite toxic and causes necrosis of healthy living tissue, and long-term use can result in a number of cardiovascular diseases, including myocardial infarction, heart failure, cardiomyopathies, arrhythmias, aortic dissection, and endocarditis. It's bad for the heart physically and spiritually. Overdose deaths from cocaine are common, as is addiction.
Psychedelics can be used in the service of the ego, and also in the service of sexuality (I remember a lovely 14 hour sexual marathon with a very beautiful girl, who unfortunately became a sex-worker or I would've wanted to marry her. Timothy Leary would've concurred, he claimed that LSD was an aphrodisiac). Psychedelics can "occasion" the most profound inner events beyond the psychophysical functions at the higher Centers, with resulting psychospiritual and psychocosmic experiences. These experiences in turn transform the motives of the lower Centers, elevating them to the service of spiritual and transcendental motives. Except in those with latent or undiagnosed thought disorders, with schizophrenia being the most well documented, psychedelics of the indole type (LSD, psilocybin) are relatively non-toxic, the catecholamine, phenylethylamine types (mescaline, 2C-B,D,E, x) tend to be somewhat hepatotoxic. Blood pressure may increase significantly (especially from DMT), but the LD-50 of these substances are usually enormous so death from use is rare and atypical, and addiction is even more rare.
The Centers (chakras) symbolized by various lotus blossoms with variously numbered petals can be likened to step-up transformers which generate higher and higher voltages. Another metaphor pertinent to a Buddhist model might be analogized to a transformation of energies from say fire heating water which becomes steam which spins a turbine which turns a generator which generates electricity which can light a hot incandescent bulb or a cool fluorescent tube. The energy type becomes increasingly subtle and rarified. Psychedelics can cause overloads at the higher Centers resulting in psychological damage and spiritual crisis. Cocaine can cause these but also can cause damage to physical health (psychosis and a fatal aneurism). So the risks seem to be divided between psychophysical and psychospiritual domains. I suppose it's better to go crazy than get dead. 
Edited by MarkostheGnostic (06/07/18 04:22 PM)
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BrendanFlock
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Re: Do psychedelics promote a common/specific type of worldview among its users? [Re: redgreenvines]
#25232926 - 05/27/18 10:30 PM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
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I think to handle a large dose(as if biting the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil) you have to be comfortable with yourself..
Now all I need to know is how to not get paranoid on marijuana..
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countrCULT
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Re: Do psychedelics promote a common/specific type of worldview among its users? [Re: BrendanFlock]
#25234367 - 05/28/18 03:04 PM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
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Wow - thanks for the great response and thoughts on this issue.
I especially liked MarkostheGnostics reply. Really interesting- and totally makes sense.
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Find the others. Find your self.
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MarkostheGnostic
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 Re: Do psychedelics promote a common/specific type of worldview among its users? [Re: countrCULT]
#25234445 - 05/28/18 03:54 PM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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