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Offlinewolf8312
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Re: Humans of the Right Wing: AsCompendium [Re: Brian Jones] * 3
    #27382681 - 07/11/21 01:20 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
Quote:

chopstick said:
It's easy to make fun of political cartoonists you disagree with, but at-least they're actually doing something to try and wake people up. And they're putting their reputations on the line to do it.. that's more than you can say for pretty much anyone here.

Very few people in this world have the balls to stand up for the truth, and the few that do are mocked by ignorant people on forums like this one who themselves aren't doing even the slightest thing to wake up anyone.

That cartoon from Ben Garrison is obviously flawed in that it portrays Trump as a hero (he really isn't) but it can't be denied that places like Facebook, Twitter, and Google have gone full-blown totalitarian with their censorship and political agendas, and they definitely deserve to be called out for it.






Strange use of the word "totalitarian", since it's voluntary to participate in those sites.




We are fast heading towards a society in which all information is filtered through a handful of companies that are controlled by the same power. Even if we don’t hit full on totalitarianism the genius of the system is how it blunts and eliminates dissent simply by marginalizing it.

The case against Julian Assange collapsed a few weeks ago as the main witness (a fraudster and child molester) admitted he had made up the allegations against him at the behest of the US authorities who are still planing to extradite and sentence him to over a hundred years in a US prison under trumped up espionage charges.

In a genuinely free and just society this travesty of justice and attack on the freedom of the press would be front page news but few people barely even know who this man is and focus instead on new left/right identity politics that prevents any unity on vital issues like this from arriving. A media blackout and propaganda by omission.

The vast majority of people unfortunately prioritize the importance of the political information they receive solely on the basis of the headlines and ultimately places like twitter and Facebook. They are too invested in it all to even want to question it.

Any person straying from the parameters of the left/right narrative propagated in such places is literally censored now under the pretext of protecting the public from harmful information or conspiracy theories, and most people go about their business blithely unaware that this is even happening.

The same thing happens all over the internet, where accusations with supporting evidence are labeled “conspiracy theory” or “fake news” and allegations of say Russian interference in the US elections are portrayed as self evident facts when no hard evidence is ever provided.

Ten years Julian Assange has spent rotting behind bars and most western citizens do not even know who he is while outlets like The Guardian (which portrays itself as the last bastion of Journalistic independence and democratic liberal values) have alternately smeared or ignored him entirely.

Assange’s only real crime was blowing the whistle on US war crimes in Iraq and elsewhere and not one word of this most recent development that I have seen has been reported in the (so called) left or right wing press.
So it might not yet be full on totalitarianism but when you have propaganda so effective that the vast majority of people do not even realize it is there then what need is there for totalitarianism?

But as Assange found out it is there if you threaten or fuck with the empire!


--------------------
"I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of."

Pennywise the dancing clown


Edited by wolf8312 (07/11/21 07:39 AM)

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Humans of the Right Wing: AsCompendium [Re: wolf8312]
    #27383001 - 07/11/21 11:27 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Excellent post wolf.  :toast:

But as many here have told me, more censorship proves we have more freedom.  :flowstone:

You and I both understand the ridiculousness of that, but that's what the mainstream press is pushing to justify their recent censorship, and many here blindly follow what the mainstream press tells them to think.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: Humans of the Right Wing: AsCompendium [Re: chopstick] * 2
    #27383212 - 07/11/21 02:29 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

chopstick said:
It's easy to make fun of political cartoonists you disagree with [...]

That cartoon from Ben Garrison is obviously flawed in that it portrays Trump as a hero (he really isn't) but it can't be denied that places like Facebook, Twitter, and Google have gone full-blown totalitarian with their censorship and political agendas, and they definitely deserve to be called out for it.




The comic references the novel Don Quixote, a book about an old man who gets lost in stories of chivalry to the point where he loses touch with reality. Specifically, the cartoon references the passage where Don Quixote confuses some windmills for evil giants, proceeds to charge these 'creatures', and promptly gets knocked off his horse by the rotating arms of the windmill.

'Tilting at windmills' is quite literally a reference to 'attacking imaginary enemies'. That cartoon is saying that Trump is a senile old man attacking imaginary enemies.That's why the political cartoon is flawed. It's making the exact opposite point that the illustrator intended.

The confidently incorrect use of a famous literary idiom is why it ended up in this thread.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Humans of the Right Wing: AsCompendium [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27383278 - 07/11/21 03:46 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

People keep using the word "censorship", and I don't think they know what it means.

Quote:

wolf8312 said:
Even if we don’t hit full on totalitarianism the genius of the system is how it blunts and eliminates dissent simply by marginalizing it.




Occam's razor: marginal opinions lack mainstream appeal.

Or, to put it more bluntly: Have you ever considered the possibility that you're just dumb? Not you specifically, but anybody with a marginal opinion.

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
But as many here have told me, more censorship proves we have more freedom.  :flowstone:




Your solution is compelled speech, not less censorship.

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Humans of the Right Wing: AsCompendium [Re: Kryptos]
    #27383726 - 07/11/21 10:15 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Occam's razor: marginal opinions lack mainstream appeal.

Or, to put it more bluntly: Have you ever considered the possibility that you're just dumb? Not you specifically, but anybody with a marginal opinion.



Marginal opinions keep turning out to be correct every time the facts finally come out.

Or, to put it more bluntly: Have you ever considered the possibility that you're just dumb? Not you specifically, but anybody who keeps believing the mainstream news only to find out that they lied to you yet again?

Here's a few of my marginal opinions that turned out to be correct, for example:

That Mueller would not find evidence of Trump-Russia collusion
That there was no evidence of Russia paying the Taliban bounties to kill US troops
That the charges against the parent of the Russian 'troll farm' would be dismissed
That Sergei Magnitsky was a crook
That Michael Cohen never made calls to Russia from Prague


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Offlinewolf8312
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Re: Humans of the Right Wing: AsCompendium [Re: Kryptos] * 2
    #27383817 - 07/12/21 01:25 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
People keep using the word "censorship", and I don't think they know what it means.

Quote:

wolf8312 said:
Even if we don’t hit full on totalitarianism the genius of the system is how it blunts and eliminates dissent simply by marginalizing it.




Occam's razor: marginal opinions lack mainstream appeal.

Or, to put it more bluntly: Have you ever considered the possibility that you're just dumb? Not you specifically, but anybody with a marginal opinion.







Well one example of a marginal opinion I hold is that which I wrote above about Julian Assange. It is a marginal because thanks to our western media only a very slim minority of people even know about the injustice he has suffered much less care about it.

This is because the mainstream media has chosen to ignore the story or when it couldn’t do so have attempted to smear Assange with allegations of espionage and rape (which fell through) that even dumb people like me can see were designed solely to discredit him publicly and lose him the support and sympathy of the endangered public. This is how they operate.

But as with other marginal opinions (2 planes 3 buildings) I hold it wouldn’t be marginal opinion if the media was doing its job.

You have like the MSM itself ignored the content of what I wrote regarding the Assange case to instead imply that I must just be dumb (not me specifically of course!). It’s much easier to attack the messenger than confront the actual message.


--------------------
"I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of."

Pennywise the dancing clown


Edited by wolf8312 (07/12/21 05:46 AM)

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Humans of the Right Wing: AsCompendium [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27384046 - 07/12/21 08:11 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Kryptos said:
Occam's razor: marginal opinions lack mainstream appeal.

Or, to put it more bluntly: Have you ever considered the possibility that you're just dumb? Not you specifically, but anybody with a marginal opinion.



Marginal opinions keep turning out to be correct every time the facts finally come out.

Or, to put it more bluntly: Have you ever considered the possibility that you're just dumb? Not you specifically, but anybody who keeps believing the mainstream news only to find out that they lied to you yet again?

Here's a few of my marginal opinions that turned out to be correct, for example:

That Mueller would not find evidence of Trump-Russia collusion
That there was no evidence of Russia paying the Taliban bounties to kill US troops
That the charges against the parent of the Russian 'troll farm' would be dismissed
That Sergei Magnitsky was a crook
That Michael Cohen never made calls to Russia from Prague




I think the important distinction to make here is the parameters by which one either adopts or discards marginal opinions.

You can have your standard blue blood liberal approach and just believe whatever the (good) media tells you, and you’d have a list of right wing marginal opinions you correctly discarded, or you can be the conspiracy theory guy who believes all marginal opinions and you’d have a nice enough list of “I was right and they were wrong”s to justify continuing that approach.

To me, it seems clear that one just needs to approach narratives like this with an understanding of what the goals are from these various actors. If you can understand why the media would ramp up tensions with Russia and blame them for 2016, you’d have probably been at least skeptical of those stories from the start. If you can understand why the US military and its international allies and NGO’s would want to pin war crimes on Bashar al Assad then you’d be skeptical of the ‘official’ accounting of Douma.

It all comes down to “cui bono.” Who stands to gain something? But in order to analyze what there is to gain, and for what purpose, you need to have some sort of ideological framework of the world that explains those motivations. Otherwise, your approach to russiagate can be as shallow as “Putin blackmailed Trump because Putin wants to bring back the USSR.”  Occam’s razor is a cute way to sound smart while appealing to authority, because it implies the most simple explanation is usually the correct one. But who is deciding what’s simple? Who’s deciding the narrative that the story is being told through? Who is deciding what the marginal opinions are, and why? It’s a lot more difficult than people like to pretend, certainly more difficult than this “the article is right there and explains why I’m clearly right” approach we all seem to take. And we wonder why nobody changes their minds around here.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Humans of the Right Wing: AsCompendium [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #27384120 - 07/12/21 08:56 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Though I agree with what you just said, I take a very different approach than looking at intent.  US Intelligence uses intent all the time to say 'this is the kind of thing we believe the Russians might do; therefore, we conclude it was Russia'.

A fundamental part of logic is the concept of 'burden of proof'.  I'll always be skeptical of things that aren't backed by evidence (i.e., things that are make believe).  People here seem to be fine with make believe if they see intent, but I don't think that's enough.


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Humans of the Right Wing: AsCompendium [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #27384183 - 07/12/21 09:39 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Trouble is you’re never gonna really be able to prove things like that beyond a reasonable doubt. Besides that, we know that what we typically rely on physical evidence for burden of proof, and that can be doctored, fabricated, or just straight up invented and lied about.

When the US claimed that North Vietnamese ships attacked the US Navy in the Gulf of Tonkin, they planted munitions on a US vessel, providing proof of their claim. How do you refute that? Could you? There’s a reason Colin Powell brought technical data and charts and topographical maps to the UN to justify our invasion of Iraq. Because it made the anti-war crowd saying “no blood for oil” seem like they were misrepresenting the facts, and the purpose of the invasion. Then the anti-war crowd was forced to adopt the position that “the US government is deliberately fabricating evidence to the UN,” which, of course they were, but still. Sometimes intent is all you have, and sometimes it’s the best metric to go on.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Humans of the Right Wing: AsCompendium [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #27384256 - 07/12/21 10:32 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Trouble is you’re never gonna really be able to prove things like that beyond a reasonable doubt.



I'm not looking for evidence beyond a reasonable doubt.  I'm looking for evidence beyond high confidence due to past Russian behavior (which is no evidence).

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
physical evidence... can be doctored, fabricated, or just straight up invented and lied about.

When the US claimed that North Vietnamese ships attacked the US Navy in the Gulf of Tonkin, they planted munitions on a US vessel, providing proof of their claim. How do you refute that? Could you? There’s a reason Colin Powell brought technical data and charts and topographical maps to the UN to justify our invasion of Iraq. Because it made the anti-war crowd saying “no blood for oil” seem like they were misrepresenting the facts, and the purpose of the invasion. Then the anti-war crowd was forced to adopt the position that “the US government is deliberately fabricating evidence to the UN,” which, of course they were, but still. Sometimes intent is all you have, and sometimes it’s the best metric to go on.



Sure, if they lie about the evidence, that's harder to dispute.  But when Intelligence gets caught lying, as they so often do, people start to lose confidence in them.  At least, some people do.  The mainstream media still seems to trust them.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Humans of the Right Wing: AsCompendium [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27384309 - 07/12/21 11:06 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Their favorite line(s) seem to be "I can't recall". :rolleyes::sad::mad2::scat:


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Humans of the Right Wing: AsCompendium [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27384339 - 07/12/21 11:32 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

There are certainly more factors to consider beyond “Russia used to be our enemy,” to build up a narrative around Russiagate. I’m sure we’ve all heard them at some point in the past few years.

I guess my point here is there will always be an argument for the state’s narrative, because that’s the entire goal of the narrative. If it wasn’t at least somewhat believable then it wouldn’t be policy. The purpose of the media is to launder the state’s objectives through some veil of objective fact-based analysis.

If the US government cooked up some fraudulent evidence of an evil deed by China, with a compelling media narrative alongside, what avenue do we take to dispute it in order to convince people otherwise? “Of course the US government is lying about China” seems like the most obvious counter argument, because what’s the alternative? You wouldn’t have proof that evidence itself was fabricated, that the US government knowingly lied, or that the media is complicit. Intent is pretty important, because you can draw parallels to historical precedents.

“Russia used to be our enemy” is lazy, but compelling because it nurtures its credibility based on people’s assumptions (which are based on historical precedents). The US government crying wolf about a geopolitical foe a few dozen times in order to wage war seems like relevant information to consider when the US government begins crying wolf about a geopolitical foe.


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Re: Humans of the Right Wing: AsCompendium [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #27384400 - 07/12/21 12:12 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

I can't believe this hasn't been posted yet.

https://news.yahoo.com/7-point-plan-reinstate-donald-144559048.html

Quote:

Attendees of the Conservative Political Action Conference in Dallas were handed cards outlining a seven-point plan to reinstate Donald Trump as president "in days, not years."

Forbes reporter Andrew Solender posted an image of the card on Twitter.

The cards seemed to have been made by a group called Patriots Soar, which was not affiliated with the event organizers.

The outlandish plan involves ousting House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and eventually installing former President Donald Trump in her place.

Trump as Speaker would then call for a vote to impeach, charge, and remove "imposters" President Joe Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris.

Since the Speaker of the House is third in the line of presidential succession, Trump would then take up the presidency again in this highly improbable scenario.




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Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things

I’m sorry it had to be me.

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Humans of the Right Wing: AsCompendium [Re: christopera]
    #27384416 - 07/12/21 12:22 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Didn’t they boo Caitlin Jenner off stage for being trans? Lol


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Humans of the Right Wing: AsCompendium [Re: wolf8312]
    #27384574 - 07/12/21 02:49 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

wolf8312 said:
Quote:

Kryptos said:
People keep using the word "censorship", and I don't think they know what it means.

Quote:

wolf8312 said:
Even if we don’t hit full on totalitarianism the genius of the system is how it blunts and eliminates dissent simply by marginalizing it.




Occam's razor: marginal opinions lack mainstream appeal.

Or, to put it more bluntly: Have you ever considered the possibility that you're just dumb? Not you specifically, but anybody with a marginal opinion.







Well one example of a marginal opinion I hold is that which I wrote above about Julian Assange. It is a marginal because thanks to our western media only a very slim minority of people even know about the injustice he has suffered much less care about it.

This is because the mainstream media has chosen to ignore the story or when it couldn’t do so have attempted to smear Assange with allegations of espionage and rape (which fell through) that even dumb people like me can see were designed solely to discredit him publicly and lose him the support and sympathy of the endangered public. This is how they operate.

But as with other marginal opinions (2 planes 3 buildings) I hold it wouldn’t be marginal opinion if the media was doing its job.

You have like the MSM itself ignored the content of what I wrote regarding the Assange case to instead imply that I must just be dumb (not me specifically of course!). It’s much easier to attack the messenger than confront the actual message.




To be clear, I don't really care about Assange. I am aware of his situation, but I...don't care. He's a whistleblower. Of course he's getting railroaded. That's what happens to whistleblowers. When you decide to become a whistleblower, you kind of accept that you're gonna get fucked over.

It's like that one general that testified against Trump. Vindman? Something like that. He straight up said in his testimony "don't worry dad, this isn't the USSR, nothing will happen to me" and he lost his job. Like what the fuck did he expect? That nothing would happen to him?

When it comes to whistleblowers, it's a lot like becoming a mercenary. Yes, you are risking death/prison. Is the good feels worth it?

Now, the reason I specifically offered the "maybe you're just dumb" comment, is because there are plenty of famous stories of whistleblowers changing things. Except it's usually not the whistleblower that changes things. The whistleblower gets fucked over and buried in a hole. Then along comes some extremely eloquent writer and writes a hell of a story. A story that makes people care. A story that changes things. The whistleblower themselves? They're just a martyr. No different from the Special Forces commando or the Jihadi. They're disposable.

Want your opinion to not be marginal? Make it non-marginal. Make people care.

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Offlinekoods
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Re: Humans of the Right Wing: AsCompendium [Re: Kryptos]
    #27384597 - 07/12/21 03:10 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Snowden is a whistleblower.  Assange is a creep and a political hack.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Humans of the Right Wing: AsCompendium [Re: koods]
    #27384751 - 07/12/21 05:26 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

You would forget the name Snowden existed if he was extradited to the US and imprisoned alongside Assange.


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Offlinetwighead
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Re: Humans of the Right Wing: AsCompendium [Re: Kryptos]
    #27384786 - 07/12/21 05:58 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

wolf8312 said:
Quote:

Kryptos said:
People keep using the word "censorship", and I don't think they know what it means.

Quote:

wolf8312 said:
Even if we don’t hit full on totalitarianism the genius of the system is how it blunts and eliminates dissent simply by marginalizing it.




Occam's razor: marginal opinions lack mainstream appeal.

Or, to put it more bluntly: Have you ever considered the possibility that you're just dumb? Not you specifically, but anybody with a marginal opinion.







Well one example of a marginal opinion I hold is that which I wrote above about Julian Assange. It is a marginal because thanks to our western media only a very slim minority of people even know about the injustice he has suffered much less care about it.

This is because the mainstream media has chosen to ignore the story or when it couldn’t do so have attempted to smear Assange with allegations of espionage and rape (which fell through) that even dumb people like me can see were designed solely to discredit him publicly and lose him the support and sympathy of the endangered public. This is how they operate.

But as with other marginal opinions (2 planes 3 buildings) I hold it wouldn’t be marginal opinion if the media was doing its job.

You have like the MSM itself ignored the content of what I wrote regarding the Assange case to instead imply that I must just be dumb (not me specifically of course!). It’s much easier to attack the messenger than confront the actual message.




To be clear, I don't really care about Assange. I am aware of his situation, but I...don't care. He's a whistleblower. Of course he's getting railroaded. That's what happens to whistleblowers. When you decide to become a whistleblower, you kind of accept that you're gonna get fucked over.

It's like that one general that testified against Trump. Vindman? Something like that. He straight up said in his testimony "don't worry dad, this isn't the USSR, nothing will happen to me" and he lost his job. Like what the fuck did he expect? That nothing would happen to him?

When it comes to whistleblowers, it's a lot like becoming a mercenary. Yes, you are risking death/prison. Is the good feels worth it?

Now, the reason I specifically offered the "maybe you're just dumb" comment, is because there are plenty of famous stories of whistleblowers changing things. Except it's usually not the whistleblower that changes things. The whistleblower gets fucked over and buried in a hole. Then along comes some extremely eloquent writer and writes a hell of a story. A story that makes people care. A story that changes things. The whistleblower themselves? They're just a martyr. No different from the Special Forces commando or the Jihadi. They're disposable.

Want your opinion to not be marginal? Make it non-marginal. Make people care.



That's a good analysis - that's why if you're going to release info you better damn sure be certain that it's done so anonymously - confidentially - and into good hands. And the information itself has to be extremely credible in the first place. A huge challenge to anyone in those positions to speak up.

If you've ever watched the show Homeland, they really have a great take on the reality of how fucked up it is to be caught in these sort of positions of doing what's right in the most clandestine way you possibly can vs the known risk of getting caught and having your whole career and life decimated


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Offlinewolf8312
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Re: Humans of the Right Wing: AsCompendium [Re: koods]
    #27385329 - 07/13/21 02:54 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Snowden is a whistleblower.  Assange is a creep and a political hack.





And what are you? What are you?


--------------------
"I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of."

Pennywise the dancing clown


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OfflineMach z 800
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Re: Humans of the Right Wing: AsCompendium [Re: wolf8312] * 2
    #27385382 - 07/13/21 04:54 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

I love how people get made Over face book an twitter silenceing people.  They are  private company they can do what the hell they want to do period. Its nice that face book is allowing you to report trump supporters an republicans as terrorists groups. Its about dam time they come to there sences. Hopefully they put there bodies in a hole in the desert some were.

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