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 alt.of.gen
NPC
 
Registered: 05/02/18
Posts: 316
Loc: Right behind you
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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 Can you stick not pressure cooked pf tek jars (grain) into the refrigerator for later use? *DELETED* 
#25227331 - 05/25/18 08:39 AM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
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Post deleted by alt.of.gen
Reason for deletion: I had to...
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 flyhighfunguy
Registered: 09/13/17
Posts: 1,550
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 Re: Can you stick not pressure cooked pf tek jars (grain) into the refrigerator for later use? [Re: alt.of.gen]
#25227446 - 05/25/18 09:33 AM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
alt.of.gen said:
So I’m trying to make a BUNCH of jars at once to meet a certain quota for a friend. The only problem is, I can only pressure so many jars at a time before I let the uncooked ones out for a long time to where bacteria may start growing in them. So, while I pressure cook some, would it be fine to stick some in the fridge for a few days until they get pressure cooked? Obviously they will be used as a substrate for my spores (in case I get a smartass on here hehehe)
Thanks, Shroomery!
Pf tek jars and grain jars are two totally different things. Pf tek jars are made using a mixture of verm/brf/water and grain jars are jars filled with whatever grain you will be using as spawn. So "pf tek jars (grain)" doesnt make too much sense.
But to answer your question, no thats not a good idea. Leaving prepared spawn that hasnt been pressure cooked is almost sure to cause contamination. You'd probably see contamination pop up by the second day.
I usually cant fit all of my jars in the cooker as well, so what i do is just do it in multiple batches in one day. Once the pressure cooker hits zero pressure you can take the jars out and load up another batch. In my opinion, you should only prepare an amount of jars that you can pressure cook that same day.
Edited by flyhighfunguy (05/25/18 09:36 AM)
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alt.of.gen
NPC
Registered: 05/02/18
Posts: 316
Loc: Right behind you
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Re: Can you stick not pressure cooked pf tek jars (grain) into the refrigerator for later use? [Re: flyhighfunguy]
#25227456 - 05/25/18 09:38 AM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
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Ah, forgive me for having bad word usage. Which means I do indeeed have a verm/grain/water mixture. My thought initially was that if they were to get pressure cooked anyway it should be fine since bacteria or most organisms wouldn’t survive in such high temps. There’s always that viable bacteria that I guess could fuck up your batch. I got a little carried away making too many jars at once, I just hate that I have to throw away about 4 half pints. But in the light of that, I’ve learned from it. Thanks man. 
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flyhighfunguy
Registered: 09/13/17
Posts: 1,550
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Re: Can you stick not pressure cooked pf tek jars (grain) into the refrigerator for later use? [Re: alt.of.gen]
#25227469 - 05/25/18 09:42 AM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
alt.of.gen said:
Ah, forgive me for having bad word usage. Which means I do indeeed have a verm/grain/water mixture. My thought initially was that if they were to get pressure cooked anyway it should be fine since bacteria or most organisms wouldn’t survive in such high temps. There’s always that viable bacteria that I guess could fuck up your batch. I got a little carried away making too many jars at once, I just hate that I have to throw away about 4 half pints. But in the light of that, I’ve learned from it. Thanks man.
Yea you may be right with allowing some bacterial endospores to germinate before cooking, ive heard of that before. The problem with allowing it to sit for a few days like you said is not only will an insane amount of bacteria form, which will be hard to kill, but also mold will probably start to grow, which even if you pressure cook the jars idk if you want a living mold in there.
Yea in my opinion its best to dump those jars and just start fresh. Definitely sucks, but like you said its a good learning experience.
No problem, hope everything goes well for ya 
EDIT: just noticed you said "verm/grain/water mixture" im hoping that was just a typo lol. Should be verm/brown rice flower/water at a 2:1:1 ratio.
Edited by flyhighfunguy (05/25/18 09:49 AM)
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muhfreedumb
Registered: 11/30/17
Posts: 199
Loc: Canadia 
Last seen: 4 years, 15 days
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Re: Can you stick not pressure cooked pf tek jars (grain) into the refrigerator for later use? [Re: alt.of.gen]
#25227589 - 05/25/18 10:38 AM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
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While the smart/efficient thing to do is throw them out, if there are spores to blow and effort and time are not in short supply, there's really not much to lose 
Just don't have high expectations and don't bother if contamination can be seen or smelled when you go to inoculate
Reasoning the way I understand it: PCing kills a high percentage of contaminants, but even if it kills 99.999%, the 0.0001% will eventually recolonize or germinate on the substrate if given time. That's why inoculation is done immediately, so that the 0.0001% has to compete with a significantly higher amount of inoculate mycelium. Given that much of an advantage the inoculate will likely win (by either preventing germination or starving/inhibiting the competitor). The more time before inoculation, the larger the chance of germination/progress by any contaminants. So knowing that, if you do everything you can to minimize colonization/germination conditions ie. refrigeration, there is going to be a greater chance of contamination compared to freshly pced substrate, but the risk may still be low enough to successfully inoculate and colonize.
Edited by muhfreedumb (05/25/18 11:09 AM)
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pixelpopper
Crap Artist
Registered: 09/20/13
Posts: 4,022
Loc: Dreamland
Last seen: 5 months, 27 days
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Re: Can you stick not pressure cooked pf tek jars (grain) into the refrigerator for later use? [Re: muhfreedumb]
#25227633 - 05/25/18 10:52 AM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
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Putting in the fridge helps, but you shouldn't prep anything that will need to sit for more than 24 hours before PC
Grains will sprout, and that's not good
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alt.of.gen
NPC
Registered: 05/02/18
Posts: 316
Loc: Right behind you
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Re: Can you stick not pressure cooked pf tek jars (grain) into the refrigerator for later use? [Re: muhfreedumb]
#25227962 - 05/25/18 01:30 PM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
muhfreedumb said:
So knowing that, if you do everything you can to minimize colonization/germination conditions ie. refrigeration, there is going to be a greater chance of contamination compared to freshly pced substrate, but the risk may still be low enough to successfully inoculate and colonize.
Hey man thanks for the input based on your experience and knowledge. From what I’ve quoted, you’re saying that it’s just better to make the batch and just get right down to business right then and there? Hm.. I guess I won’t get my hopes up on the few batches I have refrigerated. I should view it as practical when it comes to preparing jars and pressure cooking them right then and there.
And as for the rest of you, thanks a million!!
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alt.of.gen
NPC
Registered: 05/02/18
Posts: 316
Loc: Right behind you
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Re: Can you stick not pressure cooked pf tek jars (grain) into the refrigerator for later use? [Re: flyhighfunguy]
#25227988 - 05/25/18 01:44 PM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
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I don’t have brown rice flour unfortunately  but I bought milled rye (basically grinded rye grain) and substituted brown rice flour for milled rye. It may not be as nutritious as brown rice flour but even from that, I was told that the rate of mycelium growth shouldn’t be significantly different than using rye. I’m hoping that’s the case anyway. I used to use malt extract and surprisingly had one of the best yields ever (for a novice anyway hehee)!
Sucks living miles away from an actual grocery store
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flyhighfunguy
Registered: 09/13/17
Posts: 1,550
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Re: Can you stick not pressure cooked pf tek jars (grain) into the refrigerator for later use? [Re: alt.of.gen]
#25228013 - 05/25/18 01:56 PM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
alt.of.gen said:
I don’t have brown rice flour unfortunately but I bought milled rye (basically grinded rye grain) and substituted brown rice flour for milled rye. It may not be as nutritious as brown rice flour but even from that, I was told that the rate of mycelium growth shouldn’t be significantly different than using rye. I’m hoping that’s the case anyway. I used to use malt extract and surprisingly had one of the best yields ever (for a novice anyway hehee)!
Sucks living miles away from an actual grocery store
Oh alright that sounds like it should work. I was thinking you mixed whole rye grains in with the verm/water. Thats interesting that malt worked well for you, ive never heard of that before.
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alt.of.gen
NPC
Registered: 05/02/18
Posts: 316
Loc: Right behind you
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Re: Can you stick not pressure cooked pf tek jars (grain) into the refrigerator for later use? [Re: flyhighfunguy]
#25228017 - 05/25/18 01:59 PM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
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Well I should confess that I added hints of rye grain “just in case”.
*sigh* I’m a weird person like that lmao :/
But even then it was a great yield! I’m hoping these jars I shot up yesterday will reward me. You’ve been extremely helpful!
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flyhighfunguy
Registered: 09/13/17
Posts: 1,550
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Re: Can you stick not pressure cooked pf tek jars (grain) into the refrigerator for later use? [Re: alt.of.gen]
#25228031 - 05/25/18 02:04 PM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
alt.of.gen said:
Well I should confess that I added hints of rye grain “just in case”.
*sigh* I’m a weird person like that lmao :/
But even then it was a great yield! I’m hoping these jars I shot up yesterday will reward me. You’ve been extremely helpful!
Lol ive never heard of either being used to make cakes before so thats still pretty cool.
Im glad i could help, feel free to message me whenever and ill try to help with what i can. Good luck with those jars  
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muhfreedumb
Registered: 11/30/17
Posts: 199
Loc: Canadia
Last seen: 4 years, 15 days
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Re: Can you stick not pressure cooked pf tek jars (grain) into the refrigerator for later use? [Re: alt.of.gen]
#25228292 - 05/25/18 04:20 PM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
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Just as long as it takes to cool down lol, inoculating into too hot a jar would possibly kill the inoculate. The optimal situation is when plans can be made to inoculate same day after cooling or maybe next morning.
The fridge jars could be used as practice to improve sterile technique and if the jars do fine bonus!
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