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Offlinecreativsaur
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Is the second amendment outdated
    #25222015 - 05/23/18 02:09 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Okay common the second was written back when it took a good 5 minutes to shoot another round after the first one. When writing the constitution theirs no way they saw civilians in the future with shotguns, assaults, hell even pistols


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Invisiblevinsue
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Re: Is the second amendment outdated [Re: creativsaur]
    #25222269 - 05/23/18 07:42 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State



Does this mean firearm registration and thorough background checks or something like this?









Quote:

A 2011 survey of 28 countries over five continents found that a major distinction between different national regimes of firearm regulation is whether civilian gun ownership is seen as a right or a privilege. The study concluded that both the United States and Yemen were distinct from the other countries surveyed in viewing firearm ownership as a basic right of civilians and in having more permissive regimes of civilian gun ownership.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_control#Regulation_of_civilian_firearms

At least the USA and Yemen agree on something. :arabs:



:guns: . . . :peace:


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  Have You Rated Ythans Mom Yet ?? ... :taser:  ... HERE'S HOW ... (be nice) .  :mod: ... :peace:


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OfflineWeakHyperCharge
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Re: Is the second amendment outdated [Re: vinsue]
    #25222322 - 05/23/18 08:31 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)



In October 2017 the Catalonia region of Spain held a referendum on independence.

Spanish riot police were brought in to stop the vote.

You probably saw video of riot police picking up old women and bodily throwing them down stairs and out of polling centres.

There was also a video of a police man in full riot gear curb stomping a woman who tried to regain access to a polling centre.

This was about the same time that Iraqi Kurdistan held a similar vote. There were no protests in Kurdistan.



Both votes were denounced by the central governments but in Kurdistan where the Kurds are willing and able to fight and die and are armed and trained to do so. Baghdad was forced in to a peaceful retaliation, they could have beaten the Kurds for sure this time as they would have had assistance from Turkey at least. But they knew that the end result would be unpalatable.

In Spain the Catalonians are barred from being armed they were literally beaten in the streets. 100s were injured. Some hospitalised for serious conditions. Some with injuries consistent with being tortured or beaten.


So you tell me if people still need to be armed, trained and able to put up resistance to the government?


For me it's clear that an unarmed populace is a governments play thing.


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OfflinePatlal
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Re: Is the second amendment outdated [Re: WeakHyperCharge]
    #25222350 - 05/23/18 08:43 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Outdated is the understatement of the century


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Is the second amendment outdated [Re: Patlal]
    #25222369 - 05/23/18 08:58 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Could not be more relevant. The Constitution took into consideration tyrannical tendencies of any form of government. These tendencies are timeless. In Federalist paper number 46, Madison descibes this more.

The only way to change(get rid of) the 2nd Amendment, is for a new amendment to be ratified, as countless SCOTUS cases have been upheld.

An amendment to the Constitution, is not going to happen.


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“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.”


Edited by SirTripAlot (05/23/18 08:59 AM)


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OfflineXUL
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Re: Is the second amendment outdated [Re: creativsaur] * 2
    #25222374 - 05/23/18 09:02 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Your premise about the lack of speedy weapons is incorrect. This has been debunked. They had weapons capable of rapid fire.


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Invisiblerelic
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Re: Is the second amendment outdated [Re: XUL]
    #25222393 - 05/23/18 09:10 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

rapid is arbitrary.

what weapons are you speaking of?


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OfflineXUL
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Re: Is the second amendment outdated [Re: relic] * 1
    #25222424 - 05/23/18 09:23 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

The Girandoni Air and the Belton flintlock rifles. Also there were Gatling guns like the puckle in 1719.

With that said, the founding fathers could probably have entertained the idea that guns would further evolve.


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TRUMP 2020


Edited by XUL (05/23/18 09:31 AM)


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OfflineGonzo the Eternal
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Re: Is the second amendment outdated [Re: relic]
    #25222426 - 05/23/18 09:25 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Gatling gun. Rapid fire by today's standards. If you want to talk about outdated you can't just pick and choose which parts of the constitution to call outdated. The entire constitution was written while the founding fathers had no chance of imagining how any of this nation would turn out. The entire thing is outdated. The job of President is outdated.

It says nothing about the capability of the firearms. In countless examples in the real world and just as many in literary examples you see disarming the population as a first step to total tyranny. A good government doesn't rule. A good government doesnt need to neuter it's populace. This gun control debate is ridiculous in my opinion.


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Invisiblerelic
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Re: Is the second amendment outdated [Re: XUL]
    #25222467 - 05/23/18 09:53 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

XUL said:
The Girandoni Air and the Belton flintlock rifles. Also there were Gatling guns like the puckle in 1719.

With that said, the founding fathers could probably have entertained the idea that guns would further evolve.




while the girandoni is a good example of something capable of rapid fire for the time, they were notoriously fragile, prone to failure, required a highly trained individual to operate it, and not used to any meaningful degree in the fledgling united states and our revolutionary war.  as such, i highly doubt that they were taken into account during the writing of the second amendment but who really knows.

lol the puckle gun.  it's widely believed that there were only about two ever made.  two.  while technically correct that there was such a thing made in 1719, it again likely held no bearing in the minds of men writing the 2nd.

and lol the belton flintlock as well.  nobody even knows if the belton gun even worked.  certainly the governments of both the states and britain weren't convinced it even functioned as neither ever bought even a single one.

but bravo for answering, anyway.


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Invisiblerelic
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Re: Is the second amendment outdated [Re: relic]
    #25222470 - 05/23/18 09:54 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

oh, and the first gatling gun wasn't produced until the civil war, bud.


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Is the second amendment outdated [Re: Patlal] * 2
    #25222508 - 05/23/18 10:09 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Last high school shooting was done with a shotgun and a revolver.

That's the reason why media coverage was pale in comparison to the last, done with a AR15....doesn't fit the narrative.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.”


Edited by SirTripAlot (05/23/18 10:10 AM)


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OfflineXUL
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Re: Is the second amendment outdated [Re: relic]
    #25222530 - 05/23/18 10:16 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Indeed, the Girandoni. There is your example. The Belton flintlock is important because it was proposed to Congress to be mass produced. Thus, Congress could observe gun technology that improved upon speed.


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TRUMP 2020


Edited by XUL (05/23/18 10:18 AM)


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OfflineGonzo the Eternal
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Re: Is the second amendment outdated [Re: relic] * 1
    #25222654 - 05/23/18 11:08 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

You're focusing on something that's unimportant just to make a point. You can't even have this conversation unless you are willing to apply the same logic to the entire document. Not just cherry pick.

To say that the 2nd amendment should be changed because technology wasnt the same is a childish argument.

And yes I couldn't agree more with the person who talked about it not being covered as much because it was it an AR15. The vast majority of the outrage is political.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Is the second amendment outdated [Re: Gonzo the Eternal] * 1
    #25222687 - 05/23/18 11:25 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

We have the largest military in the history of the world, we havent needed a militia since the war of 1812. So yes, its outdated.


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OfflineGonzo the Eternal
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Re: Is the second amendment outdated [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #25222731 - 05/23/18 11:49 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Having the largest military does not mean we don't need a second amendment. That's complacent sheep logic. The largest military is exactly what would be a threat if this country decided to become entirely tyrannical. The second amendment has nothing to do with our armed forces.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Is the second amendment outdated [Re: Gonzo the Eternal]
    #25222752 - 05/23/18 12:02 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

I never said it did. I said the armed forces make the need for a militia nonexistent.


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OfflineXUL
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Re: Is the second amendment outdated [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #25222754 - 05/23/18 12:03 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
We have the largest military in the history of the world, we havent needed a militia since the war of 1812. So yes, its outdated.




:facepalm:

Someone already explained it I think.


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OfflineXUL
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Re: Is the second amendment outdated [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #25222759 - 05/23/18 12:05 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

A militia is necessary with or without a mighty army.

The threat could come from inside or out.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Is the second amendment outdated [Re: XUL] * 3
    #25222762 - 05/23/18 12:08 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

1. The US military servicemen are Americans too, they arent going to sign kn to wholesale violence to the American people.
2. Theres absolutely no reason for the US military to wipe out its workforce and taxpayer base
3. Even if there was, a handful of rednecks with shotguns arent going to stop the US military.


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