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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Russian Oligarch Made Payments to Michael Cohen [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25195102 - 05/10/18 11:12 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
His cousin is American.  And it totally makes sense that Viktor would invest his money in his cousin's investment company.

So you are correct, "Big ol' nothing burger".




I'm assuming by nothing burger you mean that it isnt a prosecutable offense? Because I don't think you're naive enough to believe theres nothing shady going on here.

Or do you mean it in the context of getting Trump on collusion with Russia?


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Russian Oligarch Made Payments to Michael Cohen [Re: Mercurious]
    #25195276 - 05/10/18 12:44 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mercurious said:
Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Tell me, what was the balance of that account prior to the deposit?




Why does that even matter? Crimes were clearly committed; that's what you should be concerned about.

Quote:

qman said:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/treasury-inspector-general-launches-probe-into-possible-leak-of-michael-cohens-banking-records/2018/05/09/d33c2010-5391-11e8-b00a-17f9fda3859b_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.e70e41aab6b7




Ah yes, another one who's more concerned with how the damaging information got leaked than the obvious crimes committed. Once again, the Trump crowd would be losing their fucking minds if this was a Dem president and this were his lawyer who was allowing mega corporations "pay to play" opportunities. Hypocrisy levels over 9,000.




One would need to substantiate the source of funds, was indeed from "Russian payments" then other monies already in the account. That's called forensic accounting. The fact remains we don't know what the balance was  prior to these deposits.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.”


Edited by SirTripAlot (05/10/18 12:44 PM)


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Russian Oligarch Made Payments to Michael Cohen [Re: sweeper54]
    #25195724 - 05/10/18 04:16 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

sweeper54 said:
Stormy's payment came out of the same account Viktor Vekselberg put money into 2 days before.



Oh really?  If you have a source for that claim, I'd love to see it.  If not it's a giant NOTHING burger.


Let's say I invested $1,000,000 into Fidelity, who just so happens to use McKenzie Consulting services.  Does that mean I'm somehow responsible for how Fidelity spent it's own money???

Let's see the proof that this came from Viktor Vekselberg's account rather than the company's general fund, and I'll change my mind.  :popcorn:


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Russian Oligarch Made Payments to Michael Cohen [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #25195731 - 05/10/18 04:20 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
His cousin is American.  And it totally makes sense that Viktor would invest his money in his cousin's investment company.

So you are correct, "Big ol' nothing burger".



I'm assuming by nothing burger you mean that it isnt a prosecutable offense? Because I don't think you're naive enough to believe theres nothing shady going on here.

Or do you mean it in the context of getting Trump on collusion with Russia?



What is shady about Columbia Nova paying Essential Consultants to get information on Trump?  Lots of companies wanted information on Trump, as the article pointed out.  :shrug:  Is that illegal?

Seriously, help me understand what you see here.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: Russian Oligarch Made Payments to Michael Cohen [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25195773 - 05/10/18 04:47 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
His cousin is American.  And it totally makes sense that Viktor would invest his money in his cousin's investment company.

So you are correct, "Big ol' nothing burger".



I'm assuming by nothing burger you mean that it isnt a prosecutable offense? Because I don't think you're naive enough to believe theres nothing shady going on here.

Or do you mean it in the context of getting Trump on collusion with Russia?



What is shady about Columbia Nova paying Essential Consultants to get information on Trump?  Lots of companies wanted information on Trump, as the article pointed out.  :shrug:  Is that illegal?

Seriously, help me understand what you see here.




It's not as though they're providing a background check or running a private investigation on him or something. They hired Trump's lawyer. What exactly do you think they were purchasing? The fact is that we simply do not know at this point, but to me the only logical conclusion that I can infer is that this was some sort of pay to play with Cohen being the go between.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Russian Oligarch Made Payments to Michael Cohen [Re: krypto2000]
    #25195815 - 05/10/18 05:13 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

krypto2000 said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
What is shady about Columbia Nova paying Essential Consultants to get information on Trump?  Lots of companies wanted information on Trump, as the article pointed out.  :shrug:  Is that illegal?

Seriously, help me understand what you see here.



They hired Trump's lawyer. What exactly do you think they were purchasing?



As I said, Cohen was selling inside information about Trump to whomever wanted to pay for it.  It turns out lots of companies were paying this.  If that's illegal (I don't know if it is), Cohen will be in trouble, but certainly not Trump.

Quote:

krypto2000 said:
The fact is that we simply do not know at this point, but to me the only logical conclusion that I can infer is that this was some sort of pay to play with Cohen being the go between.



What do you mean "pay to play"?  Please provide an example so I understand where you're coming from.


--------------------
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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: Russian Oligarch Made Payments to Michael Cohen [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25195856 - 05/10/18 05:32 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

"Pay to play" is a political term, essentially meaning a bribe. "If I donate 250,000 to your campaign if you win you will give me a 1.8 billion dollar weapons contract" for instance. Depending how it's done it may be legal or illegal, but it's pretty much always looked down upon. Donating to someone's campaign for instance is technically legal, if only because it's hard to prove what the donation was for, however making a direct payment to someone's agent/lawyer is pretty apparent as it's hard to explain what else it even could be for.

As I said neither of us know what's going on, but what kind of information do you think Cohen had on Trump that these companies are paying for? It's possible. It's possible that Koods may pay me for information on you, but why would he? That just doesn't sound reasonable to me, even if I stretch my imagination I just cannot think of any sort of information he may have that would be worth a substantial amount. "Pay to play" however is on page 2 or 3 of the corrupt politicians hand book.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Russian Oligarch Made Payments to Michael Cohen [Re: krypto2000]
    #25195900 - 05/10/18 05:48 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

krypto2000 said:
"Pay to play" is a political term, essentially meaning a bribe. "If I donate 250,000 to your campaign if you win you will give me a 1.8 billion dollar weapons contract" for instance. Depending how it's done it may be legal or illegal, but it's pretty much always looked down upon. Donating to someone's campaign for instance is technically legal, if only because it's hard to prove what the donation was for, however making a direct payment to someone's agent/lawyer is pretty apparent as it's hard to explain what else it even could be for.

As I said neither of us know what's going on, but what kind of information do you think Cohen had on Trump that these companies are paying for? It's possible. It's possible that Koods may pay me for information on you, but why would he? That just doesn't sound reasonable to me, even if I stretch my imagination I just cannot think of any sort of information he may have that would be worth a substantial amount. "Pay to play" however is on page 2 or 3 of the corrupt politicians hand book.



Let's say you are right and Columbus Nova wanted something from Cohen for their $1/2 million besides information on Trump.  Columbia Nova is a company with $300 million in assets from its many investors.  Does it matter that one of their clients is Russian?

That's how ridiculous Russia-gate has become.


--------------------
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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: Russian Oligarch Made Payments to Michael Cohen [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 2
    #25195909 - 05/10/18 05:50 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

krypto2000 said:
"Pay to play" is a political term, essentially meaning a bribe. "If I donate 250,000 to your campaign if you win you will give me a 1.8 billion dollar weapons contract" for instance. Depending how it's done it may be legal or illegal, but it's pretty much always looked down upon. Donating to someone's campaign for instance is technically legal, if only because it's hard to prove what the donation was for, however making a direct payment to someone's agent/lawyer is pretty apparent as it's hard to explain what else it even could be for.

As I said neither of us know what's going on, but what kind of information do you think Cohen had on Trump that these companies are paying for? It's possible. It's possible that Koods may pay me for information on you, but why would he? That just doesn't sound reasonable to me, even if I stretch my imagination I just cannot think of any sort of information he may have that would be worth a substantial amount. "Pay to play" however is on page 2 or 3 of the corrupt politicians hand book.



Let's say you are right and Columbus Nova wanted something from Cohen for their $1/2 million besides information on Trump.  Columbia Nova is a company with $300 million in assets from its many investors.  Does it matter that one of their clients is Russian?

That's how ridiculous Russia-gate has become.




No, why does their nationality matter? AT&T and some japanese arms manufacturer are accused of the same thing. It's bad because the action is illegal and detrimental to america, not because of the identity of the actors behind it.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Russian Oligarch Made Payments to Michael Cohen [Re: krypto2000]
    #25195935 - 05/10/18 05:57 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

The thread title isn't appropriate then.  The oligarch had nothing to do with anything as far as anyone knows.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: Russian Oligarch Made Payments to Michael Cohen [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25195954 - 05/10/18 06:05 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

It still would be because the question is what was the Oligarch/his counsin's company paying for? AT&T had a merger pending with the DOJ, the japanese had a bid pending for a military contract. You could entertain that they were paying to know what Trump's bathroom habits and subsequently favorite type of pie are, but it's more reasonable to believe it had something to do with these open deals. So what did novawhatever get out of it?


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Russian Oligarch Made Payments to Michael Cohen [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25195970 - 05/10/18 06:13 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
His cousin is American.  And it totally makes sense that Viktor would invest his money in his cousin's investment company.

So you are correct, "Big ol' nothing burger".



I'm assuming by nothing burger you mean that it isnt a prosecutable offense? Because I don't think you're naive enough to believe theres nothing shady going on here.

Or do you mean it in the context of getting Trump on collusion with Russia?



What is shady about Columbia Nova paying Essential Consultants to get information on Trump?  Lots of companies wanted information on Trump, as the article pointed out.  :shrug:  Is that illegal?

Seriously, help me understand what you see here.




I'm just speaking in general, regarding the Trump team/pay to play/Russia thing.

It doesnt really matter all that much to me what comes of this but I think to say there's "nothing" going on is a bit much. I dont think anything like this is gonna be a knockout impeachment starter, I'm just saying its pretty obvious there was some unethical, if not illegal, shit happening on his behalf.


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Russian Oligarch Made Payments to Michael Cohen [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25195974 - 05/10/18 06:15 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

The Russians were paying because Trump fucked a porn star!:facepalm:


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.”


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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: Russian Oligarch Made Payments to Michael Cohen [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #25196004 - 05/10/18 06:26 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
The Russians were paying because Trump fucked a porn star!:facepalm:




Who made that claim?


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Russian Oligarch Made Payments to Michael Cohen [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25196036 - 05/10/18 06:46 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

krypto2000 said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
The thread title isn't appropriate then.  The oligarch had nothing to do with anything as far as anyone knows.



It still would be because the question is what was the Oligarch/his counsin's company paying for?



No, it's clear the oligarch was paying for what every investor in an investment company pays for - to grow his investment.

The question is what was Columbus Nova paying for?  Again, the oligarch wasn't the one making payments to Michael Cohen like the OP said.

A perfect example of fake news.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Russian Oligarch Made Payments to Michael Cohen [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #25196105 - 05/10/18 07:19 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
I'm just speaking in general, regarding the Trump team/pay to play/Russia thing.



What's the "Russia thing" here?

The OP was completely dishonest by saying "Russian Oligarch Made Payments to Michael Cohen", and the New York Times mislead the OP by saying "Firm Tied to Russian Oligarch Made Payments to Michael Cohen".

EVERY investor in Columbus Nova is tied to Columbus Nova, but that has ZERO relevance to the actual story.  See my point?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: Russian Oligarch Made Payments to Michael Cohen [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25196354 - 05/10/18 09:19 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

krypto2000 said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
The thread title isn't appropriate then.  The oligarch had nothing to do with anything as far as anyone knows.



It still would be because the question is what was the Oligarch/his counsin's company paying for?



No, it's clear the oligarch was paying for what every investor in an investment company pays for - to grow his investment.

The question is what was Columbus Nova paying for?  Again, the oligarch wasn't the one making payments to Michael Cohen like the OP said.

A perfect example of fake news.




I don't see how those are mutually exclusive. If the investor invested in the company, to the point where he was a major driver of the company, and he expects them to use his money well to turn out more then he is to some degree complicit.

I'm not saying he is directly involved, that he had any knowledge of it, or even that he had any wrong doing, but I also think it's inherently wrong to dismiss that he did simply because he was 'only invested' in it. Where do you draw the line? Does a board member hold no responsibility because they, 'only invested' in the company? If I give my money to a drug dealer to buy drugs, flip them, and then give me a cut am I innocent because I, 'only invested.'

Similarly it's not just happen stance that I 'invested' in a drug dealer, people don't just randomly invest in things, they invest in them because they're likely to turn a profit or otherwise serve their interests. If I 'invested' by lending him $10 and in turn he gave me $20 back okay, maybe I had no knowledge, but it's unreasonable to believe I would lend him $40,000 without knowing how he was going to turn it into $150,000 in 6 weeks. This just seems like common sense to me.


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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: Russian Oligarch Made Payments to Michael Cohen [Re: krypto2000] * 1
    #25196386 - 05/10/18 09:33 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

I didn't even do any research on this story before, I had only heard about it in passing, but I just did and I am dumbfounded how you are not at least honestly questioning this.

Novartis's official statement is that is that they hired Cohen as a consultent at $100,000 per month, within the first month, upon meeting him, they determined he would not be of help and didn't continue using his services but because they signed a contract they kept paying him for the rest of the year totalling $1.2 million dollars.

Yet you think that sounds reasonable and think we're irrational for thinking it looks suspicious.

Do you honestly believe they would sign a 1 yr, 100K per month contract with someone they haven't met before determining that he would even be useful? Do you think there is more to it than their official statement and that they were just oblivious when they made it? How does this seem anything but suspicious to you?


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Russian Oligarch Made Payments to Michael Cohen [Re: krypto2000] * 1
    #25196490 - 05/10/18 10:24 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

krypto2000 said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
The thread title isn't appropriate then.  The oligarch had nothing to do with anything as far as anyone knows.

it's clear the oligarch was paying for what every investor in an investment company pays for - to grow his investment.

The question is what was Columbus Nova paying for?  Again, the oligarch wasn't the one making payments to Michael Cohen like the OP said.

A perfect example of fake news.



I'm not saying he is directly involved, that he had any knowledge of it, or even that he had any wrong doing, but I also think it's inherently wrong to dismiss that he did simply because he was 'only invested' in it.



Do you think Wells Fargo customers should be held accountable for the Wells Fargo scandal???

Quote:

krypto2000 said:
Where do you draw the line? Does a board member hold no responsibility because they, 'only invested' in the company?



Board Members do more than just "invest in a company".  If you have evidence that Viktor Vekselberg is on the Board of Directors or is in management at Columbia Nova, please share, and you might have a point.  :popcorn:

Quote:

krypto2000 said:
it's unreasonable to believe I would lend him $40,000 without knowing how he was going to turn it into $150,000 in 6 weeks. This just seems like common sense to me.



Let's test your theory.  Do you have money invested with any company?  Do you know what companies that firm consults with?  Neither do I.

Quote:

krypto2000 said:
I am dumbfounded how you are not at least honestly questioning this.

Novartis's official statement is that is that they hired Cohen as a consultent at $100,000 per month, within the first month, upon meeting him, they determined he would not be of help and didn't continue using his services but because they signed a contract they kept paying him for the rest of the year totalling $1.2 million dollars.

Yet you think that sounds reasonable and think we're irrational for thinking it looks suspicious.



What does Novartis have to do with the topic of this thread???

Regardless, Novartis is one of the largest pharmaceutical companies in the world, worth over $50 billion.  Is it suspicious to think they'd invest one ten thousanth of one percent of that to learn more about Trumps position on pharmaceuticals?  Giant companies spend FAR more than that on intelligence.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: Russian Oligarch Made Payments to Michael Cohen [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25197292 - 05/11/18 11:58 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

krypto2000 said:
I'm not saying he is directly involved, that he had any knowledge of it, or even that he had any wrong doing, but I also think it's inherently wrong to dismiss that he did simply because he was 'only invested' in it.



Do you think Wells Fargo customers should be held accountable for the Wells Fargo scandal???




No, why would they? I don't think the customers of this company should be either. Who said anything about customers? Big time investors in well fargo and certainly board members however, yes, they should be investigated and if found of wrongdoing held accountable.

Quote:


Quote:

krypto2000 said:
Where do you draw the line? Does a board member hold no responsibility because they, 'only invested' in the company?



Board Members do more than just "invest in a company".  If you have evidence that Viktor Vekselberg is on the Board of Directors or is in management at Columbia Nova, please share, and you might have a point.  :popcorn:

Quote:

krypto2000 said:
it's unreasonable to believe I would lend him $40,000 without knowing how he was going to turn it into $150,000 in 6 weeks. This just seems like common sense to me.



Let's test your theory.  Do you have money invested with any company?  Do you know what companies that firm consults with?  Neither do I.




If I invested a substantial amount then yes, I damn well should be aware. Not being aware doesn't mean I did anything legally wrong, but it does make me a naive moron and anyone with below average intelligence would recognize that as such. Would you invest millions or even billions in a company without having at least a reasonable idea of what they're going to do with your money or do you like to gamble?

Quote:


Quote:

krypto2000 said:
I am dumbfounded how you are not at least honestly questioning this.

Novartis's official statement is that is that they hired Cohen as a consultent at $100,000 per month, within the first month, upon meeting him, they determined he would not be of help and didn't continue using his services but because they signed a contract they kept paying him for the rest of the year totalling $1.2 million dollars.

Yet you think that sounds reasonable and think we're irrational for thinking it looks suspicious.



What does Novartis have to do with the topic of this thread???

Regardless, Novartis is one of the largest pharmaceutical companies in the world, worth over $50 billion.  Is it suspicious to think they'd invest one ten thousanth of one percent of that to learn more about Trumps position on pharmaceuticals?  Giant companies spend FAR more than that on intelligence.




I'm mixing my scandals up, it's hard to keep track of which corrupt act we're talking about because at this point they're all starting to run together. To answer your question though yes, it is suspicious that a company, no matter how much they are worth, would sign a 1.2 million contract without knowing whether they were going to actually get anything worthwhile from it. You don't think that's suspicious? I think it's suspicious to sign a $100 contract without knowing what you're actually paying for. How is that not suspicious even?


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