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Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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InvisiblefeeversM
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So how did 'God' come into being?
    #25180428 - 05/02/18 05:43 PM (5 years, 10 months ago)

Just curious to see how anyone who believes in a singular God figure explains the existence of God himself. Not looking to debate it, just genuinely interested to see what ideas people have.

Edited by feevers (05/02/18 06:50 PM)

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OfflinePhilosophymajor199
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Re: So how did 'God' come into being? [Re: feevers] * 2
    #25180551 - 05/02/18 07:02 PM (5 years, 10 months ago)

His start would be too great for us to comprehend. He’s the beginning and the end, he can see the start and finish at the same time. We could comprehend it with our bodies or mind it would have to be in spirit

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InvisiblefeeversM
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Re: So how did 'God' come into being? [Re: Philosophymajor199]
    #25180604 - 05/02/18 07:36 PM (5 years, 10 months ago)

If he's the beginning and the end, does that mean he came from nothing?

If he sees the start and the finish, does that imply time is not linear?

By saying we could comprehend it in spirit, do you mean we'll understand when we die?

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Offlinehypnoticem
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Re: So how did 'God' come into being? [Re: feevers] * 1
    #25180636 - 05/02/18 07:54 PM (5 years, 10 months ago)

There seems to be two conclusions one can come two, at least given intuitive logic. One is that there is a beginning, or another is that something must be eternal, having always existed as difficult as it may be to conceive. Most within the popular Christian camp, at least those that I have met, seem to designate this conclusion to god to say that he must be real as there must be something eternal. For me, all is eternal if you look at basic constitution, though forms change and that includes us.

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Re: So how did 'God' come into being? [Re: hypnoticem] * 1
    #25180670 - 05/02/18 08:14 PM (5 years, 10 months ago)

Time does not exist to him. Time implies limitations, which he has none , he’s outside of time if he can see the beginning and the end. Time is something for us only.
And no one knows if we will ever be able to understand it’s a great journey if you can keep optimistic and not lean to your own understanding

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OfflineBoomerBud
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Re: So how did 'God' come into being? [Re: Philosophymajor199]
    #25180713 - 05/02/18 08:38 PM (5 years, 10 months ago)

So should one lean to somebody elses understanding? Say the bible maybe? My understanding is that there is not one shred of evidence of a godlike figure leading to the creation of this planet or mankind. In my opinion, if the universe was created by a singular being, it would be nothing like what is discussed in any religion and I don't think it would have any impact on the planet we live on. Other than being responsible for the creation of the universe in which our planet resides. If this even is a universe. I don't think mankind will ever discover what it is that created this place especially not if we are dead.

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Re: So how did 'God' come into being? [Re: BoomerBud] * 2
    #25180743 - 05/02/18 08:55 PM (5 years, 10 months ago)

Hey man religion has it wrong. But the word of GOD in the Bible I consider correct. This is a long shot but clear your mind and try to receive this. Ok there is a force that wishes to keep us in the dark and keep us uniformed. The Bible says my people persish for lack of knowledge. Keep with me here... imagine a being who does know God and has seen God, (the devil, serpent Lucifer) now that being would have extreme knowledge and unsurpassed wisdom. That same being tried to over throw GOD. Now he was cast down in the earth with us, the biggest lie and the one the Devil wants you to believe is that he doesn’t exist. Stay with me, so imagine this being, in the Bible Michael the ark angel dueled with him, but it says that Michael said to him when he came for Moses body “the lord rebuke you. He said that because only GOD can contend with this powerful being. You see he’s as old as it gets, he’s the reason we have these questions. Imagine this stay with me, this being “devil” knows you better than yourself and the closest love you have. He has watched your grandparents and parents come into being. He knows your Achilles heal because he has watched. He’s the only thing between you and the truth. He blinds us with our minds and imaginations. His goal is to keep you In the dark. Know that this enemy is real and is there. He’s the greatest psychologist and reverse psychologist that has ever come into being. He can manipulate you without you ever being aware. If you can come out of that place of no understanding then the Bible begins to make more sense. At the end of the day just seek truth my friend and you’ll find what you’ve been searching for!

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: So how did 'God' come into being? [Re: feevers] * 1
    #25180747 - 05/02/18 08:57 PM (5 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

feevers said:
Just curious to see how anyone who believes in a singular God figure explains the existence of God himself. Not looking to debate it, just genuinely interested to see what ideas people have.




By definition, in every theology that I have studied, "God" does not "come into being." God is Uncreated, Eternal, or in Paul Tillich's Christian Existentialist theology, "the Ground of Being." The Eternal is the nature  of Ultimate Reality. It's Reality is ontologically prior to space-time. Only in some ancient mythologies are gods born or come into being. (Today I received in the mail a small statue of the Egyptian god Ptah which is the Creator God, the Cause of the other gods, even Creator of the Great God Ra [Amun-Ra], the Solar Deity. This is an important idea in the history of human thought). Often God is spoken of as 'The Divine Being' but in Plato's Parmenides the verdict is that one cannot attribute even Being to God. This notion arises independently in ancient Indian thought as well as among the Greeks.

In the more sophisticated authors in Christian theology there is a difference between God (as persons) and the Godhead (e.g., "Superessential Godhead" in Pseudo-Dionysus) which transcends even the Trinitarian notion of "One Substance in Three Persons" (Una Substantia Tres Personas).

In mystical Judaism, similarly, above God (symbolized also in Kabbalist as a triunity of Kether-Chokmah-Binah ('Crown'-Wisdom-Understanding) is Ain Sof Aur-Ain Sof-Ain (Eternal Light-The Eternal-!Undefined!).

In Hindu thought (vs. theology), there is a differentiation between God-with-attributes, which is a personal God, Saguna Brahman, and God-without-attributes, a transpersonal God, Nirvana Brahman, about which nothing can be posited. This aspect is apparently what the historical Buddha focused on. Different religious traditions focus on this differentiation with devotional cults like the Hare Krishna Bhakti Yoga cultus viewing God as "The Supreme Personality of the Godhead." But even they recognize the "Impersonalist" yogi who "meditates on the plenary expansion of Vishnu in the Lotus of the Heart."

As far as I know, only the Islamic Sufi traditions which are neither Sunni or Shiite recognize a transpersonal Godhead with no attributes. This is experienced when the egoic-mind is extinguished in a condition called Fanaa, much like Buddhist Nirvana. Incidentally, this position where nothing can be attributed to God is called the Via Negativa and belongs to Apophatic mysticism, versus Cataphatic mysticism wherein attributes are asserted (e.g., "God is love" - 1 John 4:8, or "Allah, the Merciful, the Compassionate" - the opening of every sura in the Qur'an).

Lastly, there are many -isms describing the nature of God/gods, with theism being the most well know. I adhere intellectually to panentheism (not to be confused with pantheism), but there is polytheism, monism monotheism, animism, etc. In the higher philosophies of religion and theology, God is Eternal, hence Uncreated, Unborn, Undying, "from Everlasting to Everlasting" and any number of linguistic expressions reflecting eternality.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Offlinebeforethedawn
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Re: So how did 'God' come into being? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #25180966 - 05/03/18 12:25 AM (5 years, 10 months ago)

Think about what you are and how that came into being. You are not the body.

"Reality is simply Being." -Bruce Lee

You came into being Now, and you die when you leave Now, while your being remains in Now.

The confusion of "how" God "comes into" being arises out of failing to realise You are That, which you are trying to rise questioning about.

And failing to realise it cannot be other than now, since time would be a second entity and also an attribute. How can Reality have attributes? It would have attributes in ANOTHER reality, then, and wouldn't be reality.

Just remember, I guess, in all this talk about God and enlightenment, you are the thing you are talking about.


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Hostile humankind
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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: So how did 'God' come into being? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #25181015 - 05/03/18 01:47 AM (5 years, 10 months ago)

Before the beginning and after the end..

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: So how did 'God' come into being? [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #25181550 - 05/03/18 10:09 AM (5 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

BrendanFlock said:
Before the beginning and after the end..




Alpha et Omega.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Re: So how did 'God' come into being? [Re: feevers] * 1
    #25182567 - 05/03/18 07:03 PM (5 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

feevers said:
Just curious to see how anyone who believes in a singular God figure explains the existence of God himself. Not looking to debate it, just genuinely interested to see what ideas people have.




I believe the miscomprehension starts first in seeing ‘him’ as a ‘figure’.

That which is termed to embody beginning and end’ is simply an expression of the eternal, which doesn’t begin.  It always was, always is and always will be.  It, itself is the ‘nothing’ (and the ‘everything’).  There is nothing outside of it which stands as a place or condition for conception (and if there was, you could ask too, how that came into being).

The very process of ‘coming into being’ is owned by it and is a substance of linear time.

It is ultimately unfathomable, since it too embodies the act of fathoming.

It is absolutely and utterly everything.

Edited by Duncan Rowhl (05/03/18 08:44 PM)

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Re: So how did 'God' come into being? [Re: Duncan Rowhl] * 1
    #25182599 - 05/03/18 07:10 PM (5 years, 10 months ago)

God eats himself and poops himself out again

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Re: So how did 'God' come into being? [Re: remake]
    #25183156 - 05/04/18 02:15 AM (5 years, 10 months ago)

This question is completely based around your own beleif. 

God has always been, and always existed.  You either beleive it or you dont.


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Ὡς οὖν εἴπεν αὐτοῖς ὅτι Ἐγώ εἰμι, ἀπῆλθον εἰς τὰ ὀπίσω, καὶ ἔπεσον χαμαί.

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Re: So how did 'God' come into being? [Re: naturalistic123]
    #25183163 - 05/04/18 02:21 AM (5 years, 10 months ago)

What is the meaning of god?

I’ve experienced what I couldn’t help but call god before, but what it meant in the experience wasn’t this judgmental or even protective or conservative “thing”.

To me it was just a state of being as I understood it, but wasn’t so much as a why or how thing, but like a lot of people said something that “just is”.

But it didn’t have meaning to me generally speaking.

A state of godhood seems like perfect intergration rather than creation/destruction itself...if that makes sense.

Sorry for swaying a bit off topic

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InvisiblefeeversM
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Re: So how did 'God' come into being? [Re: remake]
    #25184749 - 05/04/18 07:20 PM (5 years, 10 months ago)

Thanks for the responses, a lot of interesting stuff here.

I just can't wrap my mind around "always".

I've experienced the feeling of eternity while on psychedelics, during the same trip I was shown apparent proof that time is not linear... or at the very least the brain has the ability to make it appear to be not linear under certain circumstances.

I don't necessarily disagree that there is something eternal, again I guess it's just not something I can wrap my head around. I'm not sure if it would even be a belief since I experienced it first hand, more like knowledge. I just can't make sense of the knowledge with language. I can't even convince myself.

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Re: So how did 'God' come into being? [Re: feevers]
    #25184763 - 05/04/18 07:30 PM (5 years, 10 months ago)

I feel like alot of people have this same dillema.  Im not sure where it comes from, and it seems strange to people like me.  Some people struggle with not fully even knowing whether or not they beleive.....it doesnt make sense to me, personally.  However, i do beleive that god deals with everybody individually on his own timeline, so perhaps this is just an aspect of this.  I sincerely hope you are able to come to an understanding that you feel is good.


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Ὡς οὖν εἴπεν αὐτοῖς ὅτι Ἐγώ εἰμι, ἀπῆλθον εἰς τὰ ὀπίσω, καὶ ἔπεσον χαμαί.

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Re: So how did 'God' come into being? [Re: naturalistic123]
    #25184929 - 05/04/18 09:28 PM (5 years, 10 months ago)

Part of the hurdle might be accepting existence is beautiful. The truth, which is God, is beautiful. Beauty has no reason for being.


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Re: So how did 'God' come into being? [Re: feevers]
    #25189745 - 05/07/18 02:13 PM (5 years, 10 months ago)

god came into being the same way like existence came into being.
Nobody knowz.
:shrug:
:sun:

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Offlinebeforethedawn
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Re: So how did 'God' come into being? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #25190386 - 05/07/18 07:56 PM (5 years, 10 months ago)

Experiences can eclipse the need to explain the reasons for the existence of being.


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Hostile humankind
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InvisiblefeeversM
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Re: So how did 'God' come into being? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #25193387 - 05/09/18 12:17 PM (5 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

BlueCoyote said:
god came into being the same way like existence came into being.
Nobody knowz.
:shrug:
:sun:



But who is nobody?

While there are arguments for the other side, there is also an argument that the conscious experience itself is the "creator" of our physical reality.

In that case, is it something "we" know already? 'It' being the nature of how consciousness came into being, and possibly the purpose of this physical realm.

Or is it just the joining together of subatomic particles, eventually creating a brain, that created a conscious observer, which was/is capable of acknowledging the presence of that which already existed (reality)?

But even that is surface-level. Particles, atoms, and even the brain are all conscious experiences in themselves, symbols that we seemingly receive via wavelengths(also symbols?) that somehow are transduced into a conscious experience that appears to exist within the boundaries of space and a linear time. Our perceptions may indeed be a representation of what is 'actually' going on, but are in no way real or accurate and instead are products of evolution, allowing us to best interact with the real environment in a way that leaves us more likely to survive and reproduce(with fitness adaptations trumping actual perception of reality).

I think it's all wrong. I think we're as far off as possible from understanding what it  all actually means, and aren't equipped with the tools of understanding it at all. I have ideas, I have theories, but we just don't know the parameters we're working with so anything we can come up with is almost certainly incorrect. And that likely even includes the assumption I just made that we're all probably wrong.

That makes me wonder if it's even worth thinking about. Or maybe it is the most important thing to think about, and how we act in this physical realm has grave implications on eternal existence.

Maybe the God thing is right... I'm slightly more inclined to believe that even the existence of religion and the theory of God is part of something infinitely more complex, or maybe less complex.

Edited by feevers (05/09/18 12:23 PM)

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Re: So how did 'God' come into being? [Re: feevers]
    #25193435 - 05/09/18 12:52 PM (5 years, 10 months ago)

Wow, well said. I agree...  :thumbup:
difficult times ahead

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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Re: So how did 'God' come into being? [Re: BlueCoyote] * 1
    #25193870 - 05/09/18 05:12 PM (5 years, 10 months ago)

Things only 'come into being' in time.

'God' is not subject to time. 'He' simply is.

That is the common proposition.

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Re: So how did 'God' come into being? [Re: Duncan Rowhl] * 2
    #25195139 - 05/10/18 09:39 AM (5 years, 10 months ago)

I sincerely beleive that once you've searched the world of its religions, gone to the deepest depths of your mind, read multiple theories and schools of thought, different disciplines, you begin to realize most of it is complete emptiness.  It brings no satisfaction and has literally no point or meaning, it's nothing.

Surely everyone is different, but at this point in my life, after finding no meaning in other religions, gaia, new age mumbo jumbo (which I was really into for awhile, I loved the earth and felt really connected with it) I "made up my mind" and decided on what was right, based on what rang true in my ears and in my heart, and since then, I have never looked back, only strengthend in my beleifs.

Sometimes we can get so caught up in our own thoughts, we don't know whats true or not.  But there comes a point when something happens.


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Ὡς οὖν εἴπεν αὐτοῖς ὅτι Ἐγώ εἰμι, ἀπῆλθον εἰς τὰ ὀπίσω, καὶ ἔπεσον χαμαί.

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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Re: So how did 'God' come into being? [Re: naturalistic123] * 3
    #25196013 - 05/10/18 04:30 PM (5 years, 10 months ago)

I believe it would be completely non-productive too to search the world of its religions and study endlessly, rather than simply experience.

Most of what I've read, only confirms what I already know.  Some of it is flabergasting since it's as though I've written it myself, yet my experience came first, without indoctrination from those sources.

Experience, I believe is the product of repentance - relinquishment of the 'blinding' ego.

I believe that connecting with the earth is merely a taste of a gargantuan bigger picture and those who 'connect', yet have not comprehended anything beyond animal, vegetable and mineral, are selling themselves short.

Once the ego mind severs the path, it's usually final (within the lifetime), since repentance (the key) is kicked to the wayside as something that doesn't even exist.

Edited by Duncan Rowhl (05/11/18 05:06 AM)

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Offlinebeforethedawn
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Re: So how did 'God' come into being? [Re: Duncan Rowhl] * 1
    #25205892 - 05/15/18 04:27 PM (5 years, 10 months ago)

Awesome stuff Duncan.


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Hostile humankind
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