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OfflineGrizzy
Explorer of mindand matter

Registered: 03/26/04
Posts: 263
Loc: Bay Area, CA - USA
Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
Treatment for toxic ingestion? (MJ?)
    #2517985 - 04/02/04 06:29 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I'd like to find out how to treat toxic ingestion of wild mushrooms. Specifically, this would be in a situation where some folks would be stranded in the woods, end up eating some mushrooms, and being found near those shrooms. Assuming one could identify the type of shroom:

1) Is there a certain thing(s) that a person should do in ALL cases - such as not inducing vomitting? or having them drink water?

2) Are there certain things(fluids, etc) that help for certain mushrooms?

3) Are there tell-tale symptons for the diagnosis of any particular toxic ingestions of any mushrooms?

Anything, or any links or leads you have that would be helpful would be much appreciated. This research(this post included) will go forward to (potentially) aid in rescues.

Thank you very much.

P.S.: John, I believe, from what I've read, that you work, or have worked - at a hospital. I wonder if perhaps you'd be kind enough to shed some light here for me, as it goes beyond just me. This will contribute to efforts of volunteer services for medical aid, in the field, all over the state of California. I'm trying to be vague because of the "frowned upon" aspect of my activity on this site.

Thanks.

Grizzy
Fishstudy@earthlink.net


Edited by Grizzy (04/02/04 06:32 AM)


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InvisibleHanky
wiffle bat.
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Registered: 08/30/03
Posts: 56,993
Loc: Great Southern Land.
Re: Treatment for toxic ingestion? (MJ?) [Re: Grizzy]
    #2518202 - 04/02/04 09:46 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

having a surgeon and a spare liver ready for transplant is handy.
dont eat anything unless you are 100% sure and i mean sure.


--------------------
Coaster is an idiot...
[quote]Coaster said:
but i thnk everything thats pure is white?
[/quote]




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OfflineShroomInhaler
No, I don'tsmoke them! :P

Registered: 03/04/04
Posts: 102
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
Re: Treatment for toxic ingestion? (MJ?) [Re: Grizzy]
    #2518455 - 04/02/04 11:28 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

What are the symptoms of mushroom poisoning?
Early symptoms of mushroom poisoning include feeling sick, stomach cramps, vomiting and watery or bloody diarrhea. Symptoms may show up right after you eat the mushroom.

What should be done if you eat a poisonous mushroom?
If someone around hasn't eaten them, they should dig up any remaining mushrooms for identification.

What next?
Normally, one would call poison control, or the doctors, or in extreme cases, call 911, but since you said you are "stranded" in the woods, I imagine you can't. If you ahven't vomited yet, drink plenty of water and clear juices. Though you probably wouldn't have it on hand, a couple tablespoons of ipecac would do some good to the patient, in most cases. In emergency rooms they use ipecac and activated charcoal to treat mushroom-poisoned patients.

Is that all?
Nope. I'll talk once more about what to do right after eating them. There's some controversy over if someone should induce vomiting or not. However, many succesful recovery patients did as follows: Induced vomiting or stomach pump after injestion. After the upper gastrointestinal tract is emptied from doing this, early replacement of bodily fluids is necessary, so drinking alot is good. Activated charcoal is injested every 48 hours.

Here are some references to help you out:
Books

Gitlin, Norman. "Clinical Aspects of Liver Disease Caused by Industrial and Environmental Toxins." In Hepatology A Textbook of Liver Disease, ed. David Zakim, et al. Philadelphia: W. B. Saunders Co., 1996.

Periodicals

"Amanita phalloides Mushroom Poisoning--Northern California, Jan. 1997." Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report 46 (6 June 1997): 489-492

O'Brien, Barbara L., and Linh Khuu. "A Fatal Sunday Brunch: Amanita Mushroom Poisoning in a Gulf Coast Family." American Journal of Gastroenterology 91 (1996): 581-583.

Other

"Alerts from the CDC." Experience Lab Page. http://www.medsitenavigator.com

"Cyclopeptide-Containing Mushroom Toxicity." The Toxikon Multimedia Project Page. http://toxikon.er.uic.edu/mushroo.htm

"Mushroom Poisoning in Children." American Association of Family Physicians. http://www.aafp.org/patientinfo/mushroom.html

Mushroom Toxins from the FDA. http://vm.cfsan.fda.gov/~mow/chap40.html.


Edited by ShroomInhaler (04/02/04 11:31 AM)


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Invisiblemjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/22/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
Re: Treatment for toxic ingestion? (MJ?) [Re: ShroomInhaler]
    #2518658 - 04/02/04 12:53 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Well it seems that you left off the two most proiminant mushroom poisoning books on the market.

And I would like to mention that it is extremely rare to find any psychoactive mushrooms inthe woods. Unless they are copes or cubes growing iun manure form cattle which are allowed to roam in wooded areas and /or Psilocybe pelliculosa which occurs in clearcuts by the hundreds of thousands.

The closest poisonous mushrooms to Psilocybe species are three deadly GALERINA SPP. AND ALSO ONE DEADLY CONCOCYBE FILARIS MUSHROOM. THEY DO NOT AFFECT YOUR SYSTEM UNTIL 8 TO 18 HOURS AFTER YOU HAVE INGESTED THEM.

The other deadly species would be the white spored Amanita mushrooms. To avoid eating poisonous shrooms one should learn what not to pick.

Also avoid white spored mushrooms and orange to rusty cinnamon colored gilled mushrooms.

And only look at the black spored panaeolus/Copelandia complex or the Psilocybe genera of chocoalatte to purple-brown spore printed shrooms.

Also you can basically ignore the poisonous blue-staining boletes since they have gilled bottoms and are porus without gill structures.

There is a gilled boletus but rare to most.

here are the references for the most important of the mushroom poisoning books.

Rumack, Barry and Emanuell Saltzman (Eds.). 1978. Mushroom Poisoning: Diagnosis and Treatment. 263pp. CRC Press. West Palm Beach.
One of two books dealing specifically with psilocybian mushroom poisoning and other toxic muhrooms. In this particular book, several papers regarding case histories and treatment for psilocybian intoxication are presented. The second book on mushroom poisoning is Lincoff and "Mitchell's Toxic and Hallucinogenic Mushroom Poisoning."


Lincoff, Gary and D. H. Mitchell, M.D. 1977. Group 6: Psilocybin-psilocin (hallucinogenic poisoning). Toxic and Hallucinogenic Mushroom Poisoning:9-26, 100-135. 267pp. Van Nostrand Reinhold. New York.
A physicians handbook of mushroom toxins presents a brief history on the traditional use of entheogenic mushrooms in Mesoamerica. Their rediscovery by western society and descriptions of several well known and sought after North American varieties are presented. Dosages are included but caution should be given regarding proper dosage (See Allen, 1976, 1978, 1979, 1980; Haard & Haard, 1975; Ott, 1993) for relateddosage information.


The psilocybian sections of both of these books are shoert compared totheir discussions of the main shroom poisoning types which accoreding to Ford (1920) fall into six separate catagories.

The Rumack/Salzman book is about 100.00, the lincoff Mitchell book is about OP so it may be found on Ebey.

mj

For more info regarding Psilocybian inticatuionb read magic mushrooms of Australia and New Zealand by J. W. Allen posted at Erowid.

mj


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OfflineToxicManM
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Re: Treatment for toxic ingestion? (MJ?) [Re: Grizzy]
    #2518998 - 04/02/04 03:03 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

For a more available book I recommend Mushrooms: Poisons and Panaceas by Dr Denis R Benjamin. Dr Benjamin is an MD (pathologist) and has been the head of the NAMA Toxicology committee for several years.

There are so many different toxins in mushrooms that a short list of symptoms is not that useful. Symptoms of mushroom poisoning can begin anywhere from 15 minutes to 21 days after ingestion. Each type of poisoning has its own symptoms, but the symptoms of the various types are often very similar to each other.

If symptoms of poisoning occur within 2 hours of ingestion, then emesis (induced vomiting) is a good idea. Emesis should only be used if the victim is concious and has not already been vomiting a lot.

Beyond that, any treatment should be supportive. That is, you need to treat any symptoms that occur. Since vomiting and diarrhea are among the most common symptoms, dehydration is a common problem.

The number for the Poison Center is 1-800-222-1222. If the victim is unconcious or has stopped breathing, call 911.


The first line of defence against mushroom poisoning is NOT eating mushrooms unless you are certain of what they are. The Poison Centers across North America get over 10,000 calls a year on mushroom poisonings.

Happy mushrooming!


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Happy mushrooming!


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OfflineGumbyM
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Re: Treatment for toxic ingestion? (MJ?) [Re: Grizzy]
    #2520145 - 04/02/04 11:16 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

If you're stranded in the woods and you've eaten a toxic mushroom, chances are you're going to feel sick soon after you've eaten the mushroom. Most mushroom poisonings will cause nausea. If you think you've eaten a toxic mushroom, vomiting is almost always a *good* idea. The more of the toxin you get out of your system, the better of a chance your liver/kidneys have to survive.

If you've eaten a toxic Clitocybe(I believe thats the genus, the beer is affecting my brain) you won't show signs of poisoning for 8-10 days after you've eaten the mushroom. By this point it's already too late, your kidneys are failing.

The best bet is to NEVER eat a mushroom unless you're 110% sure of it's ID. If you eat a mushroom you're unsure about you could either end up vomiting/shitting for hours an wishing you were dead, or you could just end up dead because of liver failure. Always be 100% sure of what you're about to put into your body. Thats the best advise I can give.

ToxicMan will be able to get into the symptoms of mushroom poisoning much better than I can, lets wait and see what he has to say on the matter.


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OfflineTheDrugStore
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Registered: 12/23/03
Posts: 661
Loc: Hawaii Flag
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Re: Treatment for toxic ingestion? (MJ?) [Re: Grizzy]
    #2520200 - 04/02/04 11:40 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I just have to say this once more...

Dont eat any unidentified mushrooms :wink:


--------------------
Penalties against drug use should not be more damaging to an individual than the use of the drug itself. Nowhere is this more clear than in the laws against the possession of marijuana and mushrooms in private for personal use.


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Offlinebillbraski
just some dood.

Registered: 12/16/02
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Re: Treatment for toxic ingestion? (MJ?) [Re: TheDrugStore]
    #2521148 - 04/03/04 11:04 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

TheDrugStore said:
I just have to say this once more...

Dont eat any unidentified mushrooms :wink:




yeah, thanks for that tip. I didn't figure that out from reading the last 4 posts. :rolleyes:


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OfflineDrWho
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Registered: 01/08/04
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Re: Treatment for toxic ingestion? (MJ?) [Re: billbraski]
    #2521258 - 04/03/04 12:27 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

i have heard there are plenty of edible mushrooms that will have a negative/poisonous affect if injested with in 24 hours of drinking alcohol.

think i read it in "all that rain promises"
why would this be?


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OfflineShroomInhaler
No, I don'tsmoke them! :P

Registered: 03/04/04
Posts: 102
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
Re: Treatment for toxic ingestion? (MJ?) [Re: billbraski]
    #2521567 - 04/03/04 03:10 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

billbraski said:
Quote:

TheDrugStore said:
I just have to say this once more...

Dont eat any unidentified mushrooms :wink:




yeah, thanks for that tip. I didn't figure that out from reading the last 4 posts. :rolleyes:




:grin:


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Invisiblemjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/22/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
Re: Treatment for toxic ingestion? (MJ?) [Re: DrWho]
    #2522031 - 04/03/04 05:46 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Coprinus atramentarius is the mushroom with disulferam type toxins. When drinking alcohol with the is mushroom, every time you take a drink for up to a week after eating the mushroom you will get severe nausea and vomiting.

However, that mushroom is n really inedible but not poisonous. That is, it is not good for a meal as it is not meaty enough.

mj


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Offlinemycoguy
old hand

Registered: 03/25/04
Posts: 874
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 6 years, 1 month
Re: Treatment for toxic ingestion? (MJ?) [Re: Grizzy]
    #2558015 - 04/14/04 06:28 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

drink lots of water. water is the body's natural cleanser


--------------------

(and no, that's not me in the avatar)
Yahoo! Pacific Northwest Mycology Group


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