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Invisibleyogibike
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Re: 1/2 pint BRF cakes into containers Violet uses [Re: elasticaltiger]
    #25105581 - 03/31/18 09:32 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Makes sense; I can imagine that. What sort of "direct" heat did you use?  How did the mushrooms know that it was "direct?"  I mean, did the temperature fluctuate a lot or overshoot the target temperature?  I am able to make a more precise thermostat than is in that aquarium thermometer if necessary (I bought all the parts years ago for another project), but still that aquarium heater is the best heating element I have and I'm on a tight budget lately.

I'm not going to heat the air in my space, which is only 4x8' and barely big enough to lie down in. I begun sleeping at outdoor temps about 18 months ago and it's given me the best sleep of my life; I'd like never to go back.

With the temp somewhere between 55F and 85F, the average is near room temp, say 70F; maybe that's good enough? The periods of 55F won't hurt them?

If a more-constant temp is better, I am happy to add thermal mass to the mushroom habitat, e.g. in sealed water bottles; and I can throw a blanket over them at night. (I might put all this in a small styrofoam cooler, with a blanket instead of a lid.)

Thanks again!

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Re: 1/2 pint BRF cakes into containers Violet uses [Re: yogibike]
    #25105734 - 03/31/18 10:50 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

yogibike said:
Makes sense; I can imagine that. What sort of "direct" heat did you use?  How did the mushrooms know that it was "direct?"  I mean, did the temperature fluctuate a lot or overshoot the target temperature?  I am able to make a more precise thermostat than is in that aquarium thermometer if necessary (I bought all the parts years ago for another project), but still that aquarium heater is the best heating element I have and I'm on a tight budget lately.

I'm not going to heat the air in my space, which is only 4x8' and barely big enough to lie down in. I begun sleeping at outdoor temps about 18 months ago and it's given me the best sleep of my life; I'd like never to go back.

With the temp somewhere between 55F and 85F, the average is near room temp, say 70F; maybe that's good enough? The periods of 55F won't hurt them?

If a more-constant temp is better, I am happy to add thermal mass to the mushroom habitat, e.g. in sealed water bottles; and I can throw a blanket over them at night. (I might put all this in a small styrofoam cooler, with a blanket instead of a lid.)

Thanks again!




I built a tub in tub incubator and left the jars directly on the bottom of the inside tub where the water was supposed to be 80 degrees. I had thermometers in 3 areas of the water all giving me a solid 80.

Some jars were on the bottom of the tub and some were on a wire rack kinda suspended in the air in the center. All of the jars directly on the bottom grew moldy.

You need to heat the air. Not the jars. The mycelium creates it's own heat and you'll never be able to know what your temperature is inside the jar unless you find a way to pressure cook a wireless sensor into your jars

Even if the heater says 80, the point where it contacts the jar is going to be much higher and you have no way of knowing what the temp is inside.

However you pull it off, heat the air, not the jar. And for gods sake whatever you do DO NOT go to temps above 70F when attempting this kind of incubation. Jars colonize in plenty of time at 70 ( i use 65 to 67) and even if you got the temps a few degrees higher you'll only save yourself a day or two at most,


--------------------
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Edited by elasticaltiger (03/31/18 10:51 PM)

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Invisible13shroomsM
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Re: 1/2 pint BRF cakes into containers Violet uses [Re: elasticaltiger]
    #25105948 - 04/01/18 02:42 AM (5 years, 11 months ago)

80 is too high, mid 70s is pushing it cus the myc generates its own heat when colonizing..  its easily 2-3 degrees warmer in the jar.    50s at night wont hurt anything, especially if its that hot during the day.. 

direct heat is always bad due to over heating and aquarium heaters are notorious for inaccuracy..


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Re: 1/2 pint BRF cakes into containers Violet uses [Re: 13shrooms] * 1
    #25106468 - 04/01/18 11:18 AM (5 years, 11 months ago)

I´ve had the best success with this setup when it comes to fruiting miniature substrates like 1/2 pint cakes.



It´s basically just two small boxes dubtubbed and wet coir on the bottom. And just place cakes onto something so they don´t jump off and start colonizing the coir, in that case you will get saturated cakes.



I´m fruiting these just fine in 0% RH in the grow area, no stress, no misting either. I´m serious, you don´t need to mist with this setup, maybe once or twice during first and second flush. GL


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Cakes inside Water Tub

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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: 1/2 pint BRF cakes into containers Violet uses [Re: Mateja]
    #25106626 - 04/01/18 12:42 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

meteah, have you top fruited/bottled with that?

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Invisibleyogibike
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Re: 1/2 pint BRF cakes into containers Violet uses [Re: mushboy]
    #25113994 - 04/04/18 03:45 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Thanks for the feedback from 13shrooms and elasticaltiger.

Sounds like my average temperature is acceptable, and even my min temp is not fatal, but my max temp is too high.

Sounds like I would benefit from temperature stabilization, more than anything?

I will omit the heater for sure. I will put my cakes into quart plastic "jars." For thermal mass, that is, to stabilize temperature, I'll bury these jars (to just below their mouths/threads/lids) in gravel in a small styrofoam cooler. I'll leave the lid off the cooler, for best air flow.  I may even set the jars so that their tops are above the top lip of the cooler. That means the cooler would contain a relatively large amount of gravel whose average temp would probably stay hear 70 degF.

If I see that daytime temps are getting too high, I could add, on top of the gravel, frozen 16oz bottles of water that I bring home from the work fridge.

This still would leave the air, which diffuses into the Twist 'n' Loc containers, as sometimes quite hot during the day. I can imagine cooling that air by bubbling it through water in the gravel, if that gravel's average temp is near 70 degF.

How does this sound?

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Invisible13shroomsM
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Re: 1/2 pint BRF cakes into containers Violet uses [Re: yogibike]
    #25114438 - 04/04/18 07:18 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

the high temp is only too high because its in the habitable environment range for contams to thrive (81F+), cubensis are a tropical species so it wont hurt until you get well  over the 90s, its just not recommended.  upper 60s - upper 70s is the norm

the low temp will only slow things a bit Ive grown in the lower 60s with zero issues.  :thumbup:

as for temp fluctuations, stabilizing is fine but in nature the temp swings from day to night so thats not a huge deal. 

do what works for you but the bubbling water in the gravel is an old school method called PmP (Poor mans Pod) another not recommended method..  you can search PmP on here and you will get a bunch of OLD post because many other techs have been proven far better.  BUT again, do what works with what you have.  I wont tell you not to try :smirk:

SGFC or bottle tek or even small containers are better than PmPs.. just a fair warning.  they work for some but not for others.  :shrug:


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Invisibleyogibike
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Re: 1/2 pint BRF cakes into containers Violet uses [Re: 13shrooms]
    #25116824 - 04/05/18 07:56 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

My situation has just changed: Now it requires that I put the jars in the ground somewhere, buried up to their necks. Has anyone done that? With ambient humidity near ten percent here, I will have to pick a shady spot, maybe near an instance of over-irrigation, check and add water daily or so, I imagine.

I want to try this as a challenge (will anyone be impressed if I find a way to make it work in a climate with 10% humidity?) but given that it will be convenient for me to visit my jars only once a day or even less often, I imagine it will be hard to get enough moisture and FAE without some clever tricks.  If you had to grow in such a situation, might you prefer to grow sclerotia instead of fruiting bodies?

Edited by yogibike (04/05/18 09:01 PM)

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Invisible13shroomsM
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Re: 1/2 pint BRF cakes into containers Violet uses [Re: yogibike]
    #25118003 - 04/06/18 10:15 AM (5 years, 11 months ago)

use the search function man, everything you are asking has been done..  nothing new there..  you clearly need to do more reading on the process.  :smirk:

and you dont bury the actual jar but just the cake :facepalm:

when your substrate is in the jar humidity doesnt matter until youre fruiting.. and it wont fruit until its 100 fully colonized and ready anyway. 

if you are fruiting you need to let the surface moisture evap b4 misting them again, the evaporation is a key pinning trigger and if you keep it too wet or too dry nothing will fruit.  let things start to dry up on the surface then mist just enough so its like the morning dew on the grass. 

and no, noone should be impressed about you fruiting in low humidity cus in canada humidity is almost always super low in the winter and I know many that fruit in the open air with zero issues..  a little tlc will go along way with open air fruiting.

good luck  :super:


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InvisibleMateja
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Re: 1/2 pint BRF cakes into containers Violet uses [Re: mushboy]
    #25118047 - 04/06/18 10:34 AM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

mushboy said:
meteah, have you top fruited/bottled with that?



Sry didnt see this before, no I waited until full colonization and then left them for another 4-5 days and then just placed them in the FC.

Majority of the pins formed on top of the cakes which was a relief, the verm was really coarse and provided a lot of 3D climate.


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Cakes inside Water Tub

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OfflineAgarPilgrim
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Re: Invitro Grass Seed TEK – A powerful single-step grow method for beginners and beyond [Re: Mateja]
    #25118094 - 04/06/18 11:02 AM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Awesome tek! I wish I knew about this back when I was In high school. Would have made it much easier to hide from my parents (not that anyone should do such a thing).

Not sure if anyone's said this yet, but this is actually very similar to the first method used to cultivate cubensis in a laboratory setting back in the 50's by Shultes and Hoffmann. Here's a picture from a book they wrote highlighting the teqnique.




Edited by AgarPilgrim (04/06/18 11:20 AM)

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OfflineRedwoodmyc
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Re: Invitro Grass Seed TEK – A powerful single-step grow method for beginners and beyond [Re: AgarPilgrim]
    #25139978 - 04/15/18 12:32 AM (5 years, 11 months ago)

I'm currently doing my first ever grow with this tek. I read through a stack of threads and this tek was the one that made most sense to me as a noob. When I was still deciding what to do I was really struggling with the idea of a SGFC. I just don't have the space and when I read this tek it made so much more sense to me. Thanks Violet. I really appreciate your work.

I'm using this SAB tek

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/20048771#20048771

and screw top containers for my agar work as described here

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/19035259

I've got a bunch of containers with myc colonizing a verm BRF mix. I can definitely add to the consensus that 2:1:1 BRF:verm:water is too wet for this tek. Even just a little bit dryer and the myc has colonized my containers way faster. In fact the drier ones have over-taken the wet ones even though they were inoculated 2 weeks later.

Would be great if there was a note about this at the top of this thread so that noobs like me don't use the standard recipe for their BRF cakes and run into this kind of problem with slow colonizing of cakes. Violet, perhaps you could add this to help out people like me who are starting out on BRF cakes?

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OfflineRedwoodmyc
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Re: Invitro Grass Seed TEK – A powerful single-step grow method for beginners and beyond [Re: Redwoodmyc]
    #25162657 - 04/24/18 03:29 PM (5 years, 10 months ago)

With the containers where my verm BRF mix was to wet, and the myc growth had stalled, I've been cracking the lid open just a little bit. This seems to get the myc growing again. I have a few of these containers that are now almost fully colonised and so far no contaminants have got in there.

Edited by Redwoodmyc (04/24/18 03:31 PM)

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OfflineRedwoodmyc
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Re: Invitro Grass Seed TEK – A powerful single-step grow method for beginners and beyond [Re: Redwoodmyc] * 1
    #25170155 - 04/27/18 08:04 PM (5 years, 10 months ago)

My first ever mushroom



A pin growing off the plastic on the side of one of my agar containers. Planning to transfer this to another agar dish and grow some myc from it.

Still no pins from my first pod tek containers. Will post when they pop up.

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Invisiblettching8475
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Re: Invitro Grass Seed TEK – A powerful single-step grow method for beginners and beyond [Re: Redwoodmyc]
    #25170569 - 04/27/18 11:06 PM (5 years, 10 months ago)



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LAGM 2.022

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OfflineRedwoodmyc
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Re: Invitro Grass Seed TEK – A powerful single-step grow method for beginners and beyond [Re: ttching8475]
    #25215364 - 05/19/18 08:41 PM (5 years, 10 months ago)

I've now had my first fruits with this tek off some containers that were multi spore inoculated. My experience with this tek so far has been great. I've had a couple of containers contaminate due to some whole brown rice grains finding their way into the verm BRF mix, but throwing out a couple of containers, in which the contams are well contained, is no big deal.

I do have few more lessons for my fellow noobs embarking on pods tek and I realise I may be repeating things that have been said elsewhere but I figure that its good to share and reiterate what is important.

First for verm BRF a casing layer seems like a very good idea, particularly when you haven't isolated your perfect strain for this tek. Without a casing layer side pinning seems to be the norm with the fruits squeezing themselves between the side of the plastic container and the cake and some even growing on the underside and forcing the cake upwards.

Re the casing layer it also seems to be important to really push the casing material in around the sides of the container so that you cut off that little side pinning micro-climate that seems to form in the little space there.

I'm doing some strain isolation now by doing little grows in the 500ml containers and growing out mycelium from the pins to start the isolation process as Violet has described elsewhere. Hopefully this will help me find strains that are a little less prone to side pinning.

I have to say that I'm loving this tek. I really encourage noobs to give it a go. At first it might seem a little more involved than other teks, like those that don't require a PC or the agar work that seems important for good results here, but its really not that involved and I have to admit that I do feel a little smug when I see people posting about larger contam issues that could have either been avoided or minimised (i.e. isolated to one small container) with a tek like this one.

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Invisible13shroomsM
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Re: Invitro Grass Seed TEK – A powerful single-step grow method for beginners and beyond [Re: Redwoodmyc] * 1
    #25220102 - 05/22/18 05:01 AM (5 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Redwoodmyc said:
Hopefully this will help me find strains that are a little less prone to side pinning.





just some FYI -
side pinning is an environmental factor not a genetic factor, mushrooms grow where conditions are best for them to grow so eliminating the conditions that allow side pinning would be more pro active than trying to find a genetic trait that doesnt exist.  :thumbup:


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Re: Invitro Grass Seed TEK – A powerful single-step grow method for beginners and beyond [Re: 13shrooms] * 1
    #25224894 - 05/24/18 07:40 AM (5 years, 10 months ago)

Hm it's almost as if he was talking about doing exactly that in his post.


Also, it's both.


Nice posts redwoodmyc, keep em coming, and sorry for the rare responses.


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Invisible13shroomsM
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Re: Invitro Grass Seed TEK – A powerful single-step grow method for beginners and beyond [Re: Violet]
    #25225358 - 05/24/18 11:25 AM (5 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Violet said:
Also, it's both.





:nonono:  sidepinning is not genetic..  :facepalm3:

its environmental because pinning and growth occurs where conditions are best, if you get side pins its because the conditions are best on the sides and not on the surface of the substrate, nothing to do with genetics.    but keep spreading misinformation violet and catch you a ban for being ridiculous.. :rolleyes: 


:watchingyou:


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Re: Invitro Grass Seed TEK – A powerful single-step grow method for beginners and beyond [Re: 13shrooms] * 2
    #25225501 - 05/24/18 12:26 PM (5 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

13shrooms said:
Quote:

Violet said:
Also, it's both.





:nonono:  sidepinning is not genetic..  :facepalm3:

its environmental because pinning and growth occurs where conditions are best, if you get side pins its because the conditions are best on the sides and not on the surface of the substrate, nothing to do with genetics.    but keep spreading misinformation violet and catch you a ban for being ridiculous.. :rolleyes: 


:watchingyou:




It's absolutely both. There are mushroom species that will only pin on a vertical surface. Are you saying you know with absolute certainty that there is no genetic component that favors pinning on the side of something versus on the surface? You're really going to make that stretch and say 100% that there is absolutely no genetic component to fruiting on the side of something.

Flush one first generation clone.


Flush 1 second generation clone. Same fucking cluster in the same location, a generation of spawn apart.



You're going to sit there and say there is absolutely no genetic component to where mushrooms like to pin?

I'm embarrassed for you right now.


--------------------
First time growing cakes? DON'T make a Shotgun Fruiting Chamber

The Shmuvbox. - The Old TC's Like it :shrug:

Afraid to Start Growing From Your Own Prints? Drop it Like a Tiger!
No Pouring. No Syringes. No Cutting. No flaming. No Contamination. No Bullshit.

"The best thing to do while your waiting is to start more stuff. I usually got so much happening that I have tossed projects simply because I didn't have time for them. -Pastywhite QFT

Pastywhite's Easy Agar Tek (PastyPlates)

Tiger Drop Video Demos By munchauzen

Van Gogh would’ve sold more than one painting if he’d put tigers in them.―Bill Watterson

EZEKIEL 23:20

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