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 Ythan
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Registered: 08/08/97
Posts: 18,825
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 Ketamine has 'fast-acting benefits' for depression 
#25142823 - 04/16/18 08:34 AM (6 years, 1 day ago) |
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Ketamine has 'fast-acting benefits' for depression
bbc.com
Ketamine has a reputation as a party drug but is licensed as an anaesthetic.
The study found use of the drug via a nasal spray led to "significant" improvements in depressive symptoms in the first 24 hours.
The Royal College of Psychiatrists said it was a "significant" study that brought the drug "a step closer to being prescribed on the NHS".
The report by researchers from Janssen Research and Development, a Johnson and Johnson company, and Yale School of Medicine, is the first study into ketamine as a treatment for depression that has been done by a drug company.
It is being published in the American Journal of Psychiatry.
The trial looked at 68 people at imminent risk of suicide.
All patients were treated with a stay in hospital and anti-depressants.
In addition, half were given ketamine in the form of esketamine (part of the ketamine molecule) in a nasal spray and half were given a placebo.
The study found those using esketamine had a much greater improvement in depression symptoms at all points over the first four weeks of treatment.
However, at 25 days the effects had levelled out.
The study's authors suggest it could offer an effective rapid treatment for people severely depressed and at imminent risk of suicide and could help in the initial stages of treatment, as most anti-depressants take four to six weeks to become fully effective.
The nasal spray is now undergoing phase three trials before it can be licensed for treatment.
Potential for abuse
There were no reports of esketamine dependence or misuse in the trial but the authors warn that more research is needed on the potential for abuse of ketamine and say these should be looked at during subsequent trials.
Scientists in the UK are also studying ketamine as a treatment for depression taken intravenously.
Dr James Stone, from the Royal College of Psychiatrists, told the BBC the "interesting" US study confirmed the findings from successful studies into intravenous ketamine.
"The main reason for its significance is because this is being developed by a drug company and it's potentially quite likely that this medication might become available as a treatment available on the NHS for depression."
'Severe depression'
He said because it was being given as a nasal spray it was "much easier to administer" than intravenous ketamine and was "potentially quicker to give, so it means more people can be dosed at the same time" and you need less equipment.
Dr Stone said if it did go on to be prescribed on the NHS it would be aimed at people with severe depression as a second or third line of treatment if other drugs haven't worked and could be used for people instead of electroconvulsive therapy.
Prof Mitul Mehta from King's College told the BBC it was an "exciting" study.
"All the studies to date have been looking at intravenous use - there are some people who have explored oral ketamine but that doesn't appear to be as successful as intravenous so intranasal seems to be a really good halfway-house.
"It enters the body relatively quickly - it's not as fast as going straight into your bloodstream but not as slow as via the stomach and it's reasonably easy to control how much you give to a person. In that respect this is a really important study."
But he said far bigger studies are needed to look out for any rare side-effects.
Prescribed off licence
Because ketamine is licensed to be used by doctors as an aneasthetic it can be prescribed off licence for depression. This is happening in private clinics in the US and the UK.
But to be prescribed on the NHS, it would need to be licensed to be used as a treatment for depression.
In the UK, doctors have been trialling ketamine to treat depression since 2011.
Dr Rupert McShane, who has led a trial in Oxford, says ketamine can work on patients with depression "where nothing has helped before".
Last year he called for the use of ketamine to treat depression to be rolled out.
However, he called for a national registry to monitor its use.
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Fractal420
Psycellium
Registered: 06/21/13
Posts: 5,913
Last seen: 11 months, 9 hours
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 Re: Ketamine has 'fast-acting benefits' for depression [Re: Ythan]
#25144813 - 04/17/18 04:33 AM (6 years, 1 day ago) |
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I wonder what a good dose is. (For purposes of depression) I assume by esketamine they mean S-isomer-ketamine?
Ps since its just a schedule 3, there are already several ketaclinics in my city. Ive had some "S-ketamine" for a couple years but ive been weird about using it. Probably gonna send a small bit to ecstasydata so they can tell me if its pure or not (mandellin tests perfect orange, but mecke gets a tiny bit blue also, which makes me wanna make sure theres nothing dangerous)
Powder-based anything these days is kinda dangerous, especially with the ket-opiate mixtures i keep hearing about
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Dreaming of That face again.
It's bright and blue and shimmering.
Grinning wide
And comforting me with it's three warm and wild eyes.
Prying open MY third eye
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Kman1898
Dr. Learn'd
Registered: 11/17/12
Posts: 1,192
Loc: A Park
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Re: Ketamine has 'fast-acting benefits' for depression [Re: Fractal420]
#25145944 - 04/17/18 03:53 PM (6 years, 14 hours ago) |
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Get a Morris ketamine test kit if you want to be sure. It’s for testing k.
And esketamine means s isomer yes.
Here’s the thing about ket opiate mixtures...they aren’t happening. What Halle s is people use basic ass test kits that give a range of results and people don’t know how to read them properly. Just like with Xanax, no one is putting fentayl in them. They are using stronger benzos like nitrazepam
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Difficulty has more to do with reading abillity and ability to precisely follow directions. You need no knowledge of chemistry whatsoever, you just need to understand some basic principles as simple in concept as: water boils at 100C and freezes at 0C. Otherwise all published syntheses of organic and inorganic compounds can be reproduced successfully by pretty nearly anyone with at least average intelligence. Problems always have to do with availability of materials, not esoteric knowledge.
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 Stonehenge
Alt Center
Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Ketamine has 'fast-acting benefits' for depression [Re: Kman1898]
#25145985 - 04/17/18 04:10 PM (6 years, 13 hours ago) |
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There are a bunch of clinics popping up offering ket treatment. Last I heard they were getting $500 a treatment for a low dose which probably cost no more than a few dollars. You have a doc running the place, gives a quick talk to the patient then the nurses give the treatment. The stuff works so someone going to a shrink paying $100 a session plus cost of drugs with no benefit would do better on this.
Intranasal is probably the best way. Works fast and the only side effect is a runny nose. Sub q or im are going to be safer than iv for the home user. But sniffing is best.
I would estimate an average dose for snorting would be 25 to 50mg
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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)
Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Fractal420
Psycellium
Registered: 06/21/13
Posts: 5,913
Last seen: 11 months, 9 hours
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Re: Ketamine has 'fast-acting benefits' for depression [Re: Kman1898]
#25146902 - 04/17/18 10:20 PM (6 years, 7 hours ago) |
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Quote:
Kman1898 said:
Get a Morris ketamine test kit if you want to be sure. It’s for testing k.
And esketamine means s isomer yes.
Here’s the thing about ket opiate mixtures...they aren’t happening. What Halle s is people use basic ass test kits that give a range of results and people don’t know how to read them properly. Just like with Xanax, no one is putting fentayl in them. They are using stronger benzos like nitrazepam
Im not talking about fentanyl. 100% there was some ket/heroin going around the NYC to Ohio area. I dont mean like the way heroin is cut with fent. But there are all sorts of cuts in powdered ketamine. Sometimes totally harmless. Sometimes not. I think the batch i got last had something dumb like caffeine.
I use mandellin to confirm ketamine. And its def a check plus. But that doesnt mean theres nothing else there. Something causes a tiny blue mecke reaction (mecke should have no reaction) but anyone who tries the K finds it to be just K. 
So i was thinking about testing like 50mg just to be sure. With a lab. Actually need something for depression. I know psilo works too. Just trying to be safe with these street powders, and i encourage everyone else to at least reagent test their ket if its powder
PS as for benzos seems like most real alprazolam really is alprazolam. From what ive tried anyway
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Dreaming of That face again.
It's bright and blue and shimmering.
Grinning wide
And comforting me with it's three warm and wild eyes.
Prying open MY third eye
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Kman1898
Dr. Learn'd
Registered: 11/17/12
Posts: 1,192
Loc: A Park
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
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Re: Ketamine has 'fast-acting benefits' for depression [Re: Fractal420]
#25147150 - 04/18/18 01:20 AM (6 years, 4 hours ago) |
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Quote:
Fractal420 said:
Quote:
Kman1898 said:
Get a Morris ketamine test kit if you want to be sure. It’s for testing k.
And esketamine means s isomer yes.
Here’s the thing about ket opiate mixtures...they aren’t happening. What Halle s is people use basic ass test kits that give a range of results and people don’t know how to read them properly. Just like with Xanax, no one is putting fentayl in them. They are using stronger benzos like nitrazepam
Im not talking about fentanyl. 100% there was some ket/heroin going around the NYC to Ohio area. I dont mean like the way heroin is cut with fent. But there are all sorts of cuts in powdered ketamine. Sometimes totally harmless. Sometimes not. I think the batch i got last had something dumb like caffeine.
I use mandellin to confirm ketamine. And its def a check plus. But that doesnt mean theres nothing else there. Something causes a tiny blue mecke reaction (mecke should have no reaction) but anyone who tries the K finds it to be just K.
So i was thinking about testing like 50mg just to be sure. With a lab. Actually need something for depression. I know psilo works too. Just trying to be safe with these street powders, and i encourage everyone else to at least reagent test their ket if its powder
PS as for benzos seems like most real alprazolam really is alprazolam. From what ive tried anyway
But did a lab test show the ket/heroin? Or was it a basic test kit? Because basic ones aren’t very reliable
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Difficulty has more to do with reading abillity and ability to precisely follow directions. You need no knowledge of chemistry whatsoever, you just need to understand some basic principles as simple in concept as: water boils at 100C and freezes at 0C. Otherwise all published syntheses of organic and inorganic compounds can be reproduced successfully by pretty nearly anyone with at least average intelligence. Problems always have to do with availability of materials, not esoteric knowledge.
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Fractal420
Psycellium
Registered: 06/21/13
Posts: 5,913
Last seen: 11 months, 9 hours
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Re: Ketamine has 'fast-acting benefits' for depression [Re: Kman1898]
#25147377 - 04/18/18 06:02 AM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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By "basic kit" you mean a reagent, such as mandellin? Because a series of reagents, if theyre new, is not gonna steer you wrong. For example. True 100% Ketamine HCL would make mandellin turn orange. If that is the case, thats definitely ketamine. However, it must also not react with mecke or marquis, two other reagents. And mine has a slight reaction with mecke, which is probably nothing major, but still. Good when things are pure. Point is, if mecke is good and its turning blue, there is always a reason.
It could be a stupid reason, like a few specks of caffeine, maybe even a vicodin sprinkle. To enhance weight. But pure, pure K should only react with mandellin out of the main 3.
If you read my original post, the whole point was i was gonna send off a few mg to a lab. For their Gas chromatography. But reagents are damn good, and right now very important for people to be using. Whether its molly, ket, or esp dope. Any powder.
Also if curious about the ket/dope mixes i mentioned just google and youll immediately find reports. It happens, yes.
I would do a bit of that stuff for depression anyway, as its always been "okay". People have used it at k-hole doses and loved it, no complaints, just "that was amazing". So hopefully nothing dangerous or even noticeable. will find out soon, for like $120 lol
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Dreaming of That face again.
It's bright and blue and shimmering.
Grinning wide
And comforting me with it's three warm and wild eyes.
Prying open MY third eye
Edited by Fractal420 (04/18/18 06:14 AM)
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Stonehenge
Alt Center
Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Ketamine has 'fast-acting benefits' for depression [Re: Kman1898]
#25147418 - 04/18/18 06:48 AM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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No way nitrozapine is stronger than xanax. Xanax is effective at .25mg or even less. They make .125mg tabs too. Nitrozapine takes about 5mg as I recall. I used to take that crap for sleep until I found out how nasty benzos are in the long run.
Ket I keep in reserve for when things get really down which is not often. St johns works for most times.
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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)
Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Fractal420
Psycellium
Registered: 06/21/13
Posts: 5,913
Last seen: 11 months, 9 hours
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Re: Ketamine has 'fast-acting benefits' for depression [Re: Stonehenge]
#25147662 - 04/18/18 09:52 AM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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Benzos are pretty different due to half life and such, for example klonopin is super long acting compared to one hour of xanax, and has a completely different addiction potential (short acting benzos obv are the most addictive). Anyway though i think most of the -lam benzos like alprazolam and triazolam are about the same. You can consult a chart where they show conversions for all benzos/doses (tho everyone reacts a bit different, there are standardized equivalents. Nitrazepam i recall being pretty strong too, but thats a -pam benzo, which tend to be a bit less potent (altho again clonazepam is just as strong as xanax but lasts longer) but IMO better for anxiety.
However. I find this to really have nothing to do with ketamine because ket is not exactly an effective "anxiety medicine". Depression maybe but i still have to explore this, with the correct dosing guidelines. I find if youre going to somehow compare them, ketamine is more like a psych where unless its a low "party" dose, its a real experience that youre gonna go through. Most say dissociatives are alot darker than tryptamines and it can be crazy intense. When you need to take a benzo (if you suffer from actual panic attacks and/or GAD) a xanax or kpin will calm you down, but you dont want to be doing ketamine and not even recognizing where or who you are.
All "in my opinion" and specifically relating to anxiety
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Dreaming of That face again.
It's bright and blue and shimmering.
Grinning wide
And comforting me with it's three warm and wild eyes.
Prying open MY third eye
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Failboat
Fuck Up
Registered: 02/01/18
Posts: 8,736
Last seen: 6 days, 11 hours
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Re: Ketamine has 'fast-acting benefits' for depression [Re: Fractal420]
#25150545 - 04/19/18 11:48 AM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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Personally I like a good 250-500mg dose. The two cuts I have knowledge of are ephedrine and MSM. One is obviously active and the other is not.
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Fractal420
Psycellium
Registered: 06/21/13
Posts: 5,913
Last seen: 11 months, 9 hours
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Re: Ketamine has 'fast-acting benefits' for depression [Re: Failboat]
#25151640 - 04/19/18 07:20 PM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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Yeah msm and msg wouldnt show up as active compounds, i dont think, because theyre mainly food additives. But who knows it might react with something.
Slight slight blue mecke... i dunno, it doesnt seem to be very psychoactive cut (if theres an active cut at all)... at least not at those doses. Like i said, people who use it and k-hole seem to say they really enjoyed it. Technically it could be mdxx or something. I know the person i got that from way back when had both, and i saw him sometimes be careless and possibly get a bit of one into the other.
I do really wanna try a lab test tho. Sometimes youll see a sample thats like 20:Ketamine to 1:somecrazyshit
Or maybe its a tiny bit of caffeine for all i know. Id say fuck it, but its just not like me to ignore possible cuts
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Dreaming of That face again.
It's bright and blue and shimmering.
Grinning wide
And comforting me with it's three warm and wild eyes.
Prying open MY third eye
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Eclavdra
Stranger
Registered: 04/24/18
Posts: 3
Last seen: 5 months, 27 days
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Prescribed Ketamine Lozenges and received Ketamine Infusions [Re: Fractal420] 1
#25162495 - 04/24/18 02:05 PM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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I have been given infusions of Ketamine and troches to take at home for Depression, PTSD, Anxiety and Pain control. It has given me my life back.
I have a history of mental health issues. Antidepressants, antipsychotics, and the other standard fair of blood pressure medication, antiseizure, antihistamines were not only not helping but made everything worse.
After witnessing my husband shoot and kill himself, every condition was exasperated. After 4 years of living death I read about Ketamine infusions being used for pain, depression and PTSD. It is not covered by insurance and is expensive. Someone close to me offered to pay for it. I had never taken Ketamine before either medically or recreationally.
I wasn't really frightened, I just expected it to be a waste of time and money. I received the standard protocol for depression which is 6 infusions over 2 weeks. They were each an hour long. The doctor wanted to get me to 100mg in the hour but I could never handle above 70mg.
I have recreationally used mushrooms, LSD and other things when I was younger.
The experience was actually terrifying. I had to have IV Versed (a short acting benzo) with the infusion and again in the middle of the infusion. My heart, blood pressure, oxygen levels were monitored continually. A nurse specializing in anaesthesia was with me the whole time. The room was relaxing, noise canceling headphones, videos of relaxing things on a big screen in front of me. It was overwhelming, I cried for much of the first 4 infusions. It felt like dying. I didn't enjoy it at all. But it gave me my life back. I hadn't left a corner of my bed in months, all I thought about was dying, I was in constant pain. I am not 100% better but I no longer have suicidal thoughts, I don't have much pain, my startle response and anxiety are back to normal, no more flashbacks, I leave my bed everyday and do normal things around the house. I was given troches for home use. They are like tiny tacky candies, very acidic even though they are suppose to be raspberry flavored. They are 100mg. I take one 3x's a week. It is not as frightening as the infusions but still not particularly enjoyable for me.
The troches alone without the intial infusions don't have the same efficacy in research trials but used after the infusions will extend the time needed before what is called a booster infusion which is just one hour long infusion.
I wanted to share my experience. It is frustrating that ECT therapy is covered by insurance but not Ketamine infusions even though Ketamine is given by IV during ECT therapy.
I wouldn't say it's a first line of treatment for PTSD, depression or pain but when nothing else works it seems a reasonable thing to try. The only side effects are a minor headache after and some short term memory loss. I tried to be detailed with this post but please feel free to ask me any questions.
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student
Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system 
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Re: Prescribed Ketamine Lozenges and received Ketamine Infusions [Re: Eclavdra]
#25162539 - 04/24/18 02:27 PM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Eclavdra said:
I tried to be detailed with this post but please feel free to ask me any questions.
Thank you so much for sharing this. You brought light to my day with that story.
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Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe
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