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InvisibleMoonFarmer
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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: pinedownpioneer]
    #25140039 - 04/15/18 03:17 AM (6 months, 2 days ago)

:greenthumb:


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InvisiblePony
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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: MoonFarmer]
    #25140068 - 04/15/18 03:40 AM (6 months, 2 days ago)

There’s a saying in the scientific community: you can’t prove a negative. (Prove big foot doesn’t exist). While it’s virtually impossible for big foot to exist, with billions of people and cameras (“but there’s pictures,” no there’s not, not real ones), and google earth, it’s highly, highly unlikely, but not impossible.  It’s your job to prove with credible resources (a university or government funded research facility with an actual publication on the matter, instead of just some guy putting it on their website).

Anyway, I’m amazed at how organized y’all are with your cacti, I just threw a bunch of seeds in a baking dish, now I wish I would have taken the time to make them look prettier as there’s a bunch grown in one spot, and a few stragglers over the rest of the pan.


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OfflineMateo
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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: Crispy224]
    #25140128 - 04/15/18 05:08 AM (6 months, 2 days ago)

Quote:

Crispy224 said:
Here's better pictures. It's growing right next to my yellow ones.i would actually be disappointed if it turns yellow. I know they have yellow and orange moon cactus so hopefully it's something similar to that. I'm hoping my two larger variegates flower this year so I can cross pollinate them.




That is indeed a very special Loph.
Be careful with this one and try get it to pup so you can multiply it.
If you were to consider selling some pups of this one im sure you would get a heafty amount from collectors.
I hope it grows good for you.


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OfflineMateo
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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: MeanGreen]
    #25140132 - 04/15/18 05:13 AM (6 months, 2 days ago)

Quote:

MeanGreen said:
Did some more repotting, lophs together along with a couple arios (fissuratus & hintonii) and some ephedra seedlings. Trying to recreate my own little part of Texas/Mexico haha :smile:
All williamsii of different kinds except the one jourdaniana on the left front row:





That is a nice collection you have put toghether.
I like you have put some Arios in there as well.
Im kind of curious what soilmix you have in there.
It looks like you have used some local stone gravel, i think it gives a natural look compared to the lava/phosphate rocks usually put on the surface.
Very nice collection


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Invisiblekarode13M
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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: DualWieldRake]
    #25140196 - 04/15/18 06:37 AM (6 months, 2 days ago)

Quote:

DualWieldRake said:


I fail to find any evidence of your claims of historical topical use






I find that hard to believe. The first book I picked up begins by saying it's been in use for 3000 years. Second sentence goes on to say: "The Aztecs used it as a remedy for many ailments in low doses, such as rheumatism, headaches and fever, in higher doses it was used by shamanic priests as a magical plant for divination..."  From Garden of Eden by Snu Voogelbreinder.

If you want more references then I'll crack open my books and school you properly. Not right now as I'm a little busy.

The web is full of anecdotes if you have a look properly, even half arsed should get a result or two. It might be quackery but I find most things that get used for many centuries tend to have truth to them. Many plants are good substitutes for expensive, chemically laden remedies produced by man. I swear by Arnica, Plantain and anyone that I suggest use it says the same thing.


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InvisiblePony
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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: karode13]
    #25140537 - 04/15/18 11:10 AM (6 months, 2 days ago)

I was on WebMD, it’s applied topically, even for fractured bones.  Definitely quackery.


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Offlinejellyfish


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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: Pony]
    #25141521 - 04/15/18 06:46 PM (6 months, 2 days ago)

Oh I meant trich to peres but thanks for the advice. I've started a log of all the wisdom I'm given so I can stop repeating the same grafting questions. Just hate doing it knowing I could kill a precious seedling but at the same time I want to see it explode with growth


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Invisiblekarode13M
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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: Pony]
    #25141598 - 04/15/18 07:18 PM (6 months, 2 days ago)

Quote:

Pony said:
I was on WebMD, it’s applied topically, even for fractured bones.  Definitely quackery.





So you wouldn't think  that this has any anti inflammatory properties if it were used for so many ailments where inflammation is present.


Yeah, must be quackery. It's the only logical conclusion.


Many cactus and succulents are used in medicine. Aloe vera, Opuntia, Hoodia gordanii etc...


The discussion isn't about quackery, it was about historical use of the plant. It seems people are proving this to be correct, while trying to point out quackery. Your attention spans must be very low.


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OfflineSolipsis
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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: karode13]
    #25141640 - 04/15/18 07:37 PM (6 months, 2 days ago)

I'm gonna be the devil's advocate here just like this guy on DMT nexus who said:

Quote:

Dont flame me for this, I know everyone wants mescaline to be a warm and cuddly critter that just feels like a hug from the inside, but its rough on some people. Sometimes real rough.
For instance, due to significant damage to my spine every time I've ever taken an active dose of any sort of cactus I get stabbing chest pain starting half way through the peak and lasting 5 or 6 hours. The pain often goes all the way through to my back and it puts a rather high price tag on any mescaline experience. It doesnt help that I'm a hardhead and require a abnormally large dose to get good visuals and headspace going.
I cant just be a freak anomaly in this because I've repeatedly heard old native americans regretfully say that they had to stop using peyote because of how much it aggravates their arthritis. I also had arthritis so I know they arent joking, but I cured myself of that many years ago. For a long time I just surrendered to the notion that its inherently damn rough on some people. Its not tripping in general, this incitement of joint and bone pain seems specific to mescaline.
Recently here I noticed some people observing that harmalas not only increase mescaline potency but also, in their estimation, effectively counter the stimulant effect. This got me to thinking, this mescaline pain thing could be a result of its stimulant properties or could be some other modifiable factor, like inflammation. Has anyone who gets mescaline pain ever experimented with admixtures to prevent or ameliorate the effect?




As for "sacrificing" peyote just for these ailments, I am not sure I buy that. If it is considered a medicine then an illness seems like it would warrant it's use.
This does not make people immune to placebo effects. I am open to the possibility that it may help but also to the possibility that placebo and certain reinforcing and belief-based ways of thinking (which favor those cases where something helps but explain away cases where it doesn't work for someone based on other reasons) could be what is behind this application.

I have also seen anecdotes of success where the peyote was used not topically but ceremonially, orally ingested.

I appreciate that plenty of ancient practices do have science backing it up, sometimes astounding as to how they were able to figure it out... but other practices have all the signs of being based on nothing but faith and belief-based thinking patterns.

All I am saying is: don't be so ready to believe in either of those sides until there is something more concrete and testable to go on. There is no shame in just sticking with "the jury is out on this one", indeed without calling it quackery.

Karode I apologize I only just also saw you commenting on this not being the focus of the discussion. I guess this is the second time that happened recently.

Hopefully it helps if I say that I am not trying to push people towards one of the sides of this argument but to provide a little nuance and maybe reconciliation.

If you want I can just empty this post..

That variegated orange loph is special indeed!

Lemme say that anyone wishing to use 6-BAP to help with the pupping can get a sample from me if they just cover the shipping.


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Edited by Solipsis (04/15/18 07:49 PM)


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Invisiblekarode13M
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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: Solipsis]
    #25141690 - 04/15/18 08:04 PM (6 months, 2 days ago)

Yes. High doses of mescaline are known to do this. We're not talking about high doses here.


As a topical treatment for cuts and abrasions I see no reason why it wont work. Again, lots of cactus and succulents are used this way. I think a book I have mentions about 190 species, from memory, used in this way.

I know ferrel's Dad uses cactus this way. I'm kind of hoping he sees this and relates some of his perspective.


I know not all of the claims are true. I'm not saying that. I do know from having first hand experience that a lot of medicinal plants used in New Zealand by Maori work. Once I was in Australia I searched what the Koori people used here, I periodically test things like this because I'm into ethnobotany and some of this shit works, sometimes better than over the counter products. I have real world experience, I don't get all my knowledge from google either.


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OfflineSolipsis
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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: karode13]
    #25141717 - 04/15/18 08:17 PM (6 months, 1 day ago)

Fair enough.

Have there also been reports of this use from tribes in countries far apart which are likely to have learned it independently or is that a super tall order because of how far back these things go and there may have been common ancestry to it.? Any isolated communities though?

I also wonder why they wouldn't use other mescaline cacti for this, or were those known to be used in similar ways? It would be interesting to see if alkaloids similar to mescaline could work as well although it would be just as hard to know what's going on without double blind experiments..
Still, an approach like that could maybe convince people to go for such alternatives who would otherwise sacrifice these plants. It actually seems like a respectable research to do this for a lot of traditional medicines which endanger plants and animals, to a least convince some of the people that your *light* version of the medicine works too following the same principles.


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Invisiblekarode13M
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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: Solipsis]
    #25141796 - 04/15/18 08:48 PM (6 months, 1 day ago)

I think the majority of people that have utilised cactus are from the American continent. One would assume it was passed around via contact with other tribes/cultures, but I'm not certain. Peyote was introduced to Native Americans this way, as a substitute for the Mescal Bean. It wouldn't surprise me that other people figured these things out independently. They were crafty and in tune with their surroundings.

I also don't think mescaline is involved in the anti inflammatory/anti bacterial components of the usage. It's the other chemicals inside that are responsible for this.


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OfflineWeAreMushroom
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Re: Loph Growers Unite! *DELETED* [Re: karode13] * 1
    #25142086 - 04/15/18 10:58 PM (6 months, 1 day ago)

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OfflineMeanGreen
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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: WeAreMushroom] * 1
    #25142815 - 04/16/18 10:29 AM (6 months, 1 day ago)

Guess not all of them got potted up in the end WeAreMushroom huh? :grin:

Looks like these guys enjoyed getting a new pot; First day outside, first flowers of the season :smile:


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InvisibleLipa Kreepa
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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: MeanGreen]
    #25143322 - 04/16/18 02:59 PM (6 months, 1 day ago)

Nothing like a bloom day :cool: enjoy it brother.

Do you like to swab the pollen at all, or are LW's self fertile? I'm still fairly new to them and I've never had one bloom


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OfflineWeAreMushroom
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Re: Loph Growers Unite! *DELETED* [Re: MeanGreen]
    #25143454 - 04/16/18 04:11 PM (6 months, 1 day ago)

Post deleted by WeAreMushroom

Reason for deletion: Paranoia


Edited by WeAreMushroom (04/16/18 04:17 PM)


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OfflineWeAreMushroom
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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: WeAreMushroom]
    #25143456 - 04/16/18 04:13 PM (6 months, 1 day ago)

But back on topic, your children are BEAUTIFUL, Mean Green.

:awedance:

Do you find that the larger older ones benefit from being potted so closely?


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InvisibleFeroxx
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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: Lipa Kreepa]
    #25143457 - 04/16/18 04:14 PM (6 months, 1 day ago)

LW for sure is (but it produces less seeds) im not sure about the other species


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OfflineMeanGreen
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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: Lipa Kreepa] * 2
    #25143460 - 04/16/18 04:16 PM (6 months, 1 day ago)

Quote:

Lipa Kreepa said:
Nothing like a bloom day :cool: enjoy it brother.

Do you like to swab the pollen at all, or are LW's self fertile? I'm still fairly new to them and I've never had one bloom




Yes I usually keep a paintbrush in the pot so I can cross pollinate the various flowers. There are 2 different types of L. williamsii, the northern form which is self-pollinating, and the southern form which isn't. All other species of lophophora are self-sterile afaik.

But cross pollination really isn't an issue with lophs, it really baffles me how they manage to synchronize themselves to flower at the same time, even if in different pots. I don't think I ever had a loph flower alone, they're always at least a couple to flower at the exact same time.

And I mean really at the exact same time down to the very minute the flowers start opening, check out this timelapse I did last year which demonstrates that:


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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: MeanGreen]
    #25143471 - 04/16/18 04:20 PM (6 months, 1 day ago)

Sorry if it came out wrong, there was no ill feelings in my remark, if you are in a position where you can eat peyote more power to you, you won't be the first nor the last. I wouldn't hesitate if I had access to plants that were already harvested anyway.

I don't know yet if potting them together like that is beneficial, did it very recently. But they certainly have more root space now than before in their individual pots. I oriented the taproots so they're going across the pot and not towards their neighbour.


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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> The Ethnobotanical Garden

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