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OnlineThe Ecstatic
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Protests in Hungary After Right Wing Consolidates Power
    #25142734 - 04/16/18 09:35 AM (5 months, 29 days ago)

https://theintercept.com/2018/04/15/hungarians-take-streets-protest-election-seen-hammer-blow-democracy/


Quote:

TENS OF THOUSANDS of Hungarians took to the streets of Budapest on Saturday to protest what they called a deeply undemocratic election last week that delivered two-thirds of the seats in Parliament to the ruling Fidesz party which won just 47 percent of the national popular vote.






Blaming miniscule number of immigrants for woes, attacking leftists, using private security firms to intimidate citizens, gerrymandering, and a crackdown on the media.


But its not the deep state because he hates Muslims like I do.

What yall think about this (read the article first)


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Onlineqman
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Re: Protests in Hungary After Right Wing Consolidates Power [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #25142831 - 04/16/18 10:41 AM (5 months, 29 days ago)

Protesting the results of an election, I thought that's the point of the election in the first place.

Didn't a bunch of people protest Trump's victory?


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OfflinePsilynut2
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Re: Protests in Hungary After Right Wing Consolidates Power [Re: qman]
    #25142865 - 04/16/18 11:17 AM (5 months, 29 days ago)

Yep they sure did , found a pic the assholes too .



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OnlineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Protests in Hungary After Right Wing Consolidates Power [Re: qman]
    #25142892 - 04/16/18 11:32 AM (5 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Protesting the results of an election, I thought that's the point of the election in the first place.

Didn't a bunch of people protest Trump's victory?




Did you read the article?


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OnlineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Protests in Hungary After Right Wing Consolidates Power [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #25142896 - 04/16/18 11:34 AM (5 months, 29 days ago)

Took a whole 1 comments for this thread to be derailed.

Good job everyone, but special shoutout to qman who can never address a point that doesnt have to do with immigrants.


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Onlineqman
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Re: Protests in Hungary After Right Wing Consolidates Power [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #25142903 - 04/16/18 11:41 AM (5 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

qman said:
Protesting the results of an election, I thought that's the point of the election in the first place.

Didn't a bunch of people protest Trump's victory?




Did you read the article?




I did.
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Took a whole 1 comments for this thread to be derailed.

Good job everyone, but special shoutout to qman who can never address a point that doesnt have to do with immigrants.




I don't know what you're talking about, the title of this thread is about "Protests in Hungary".


Edited by qman (04/16/18 11:42 AM)


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OnlineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Protests in Hungary After Right Wing Consolidates Power [Re: qman]
    #25142913 - 04/16/18 11:46 AM (5 months, 29 days ago)

Whatever dude, scurry back to the Daily Mail comment section. You clearly have no intention of addressing the article.


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Onlineqman
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Re: Protests in Hungary After Right Wing Consolidates Power [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #25142941 - 04/16/18 12:06 PM (5 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Whatever dude, scurry back to the Daily Mail comment section. You clearly have no intention of addressing the article.




My point is that groups are supposed to hit the streets and promote their ideas and political parties BEFORE the election, doing it after the fact can still be important but is sure looks like soar grapes.


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OnlineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Protests in Hungary After Right Wing Consolidates Power [Re: qman]
    #25142944 - 04/16/18 12:08 PM (5 months, 29 days ago)

If you read the article you would know why that wasnt the case.


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InvisibleBubbles85
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Re: Protests in Hungary After Right Wing Consolidates Power [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #25142954 - 04/16/18 12:13 PM (5 months, 29 days ago)

Love how an EU flag just has to be present in the midst of the protesters crying about democracy.

How cliche.

The EU is the most undemocratic governing body in Europe. It gives no fucks for the nation states right to self determination and their right to self govern.

It is a puppet institution of the central banks and nothing more. A means to control the economy, wealth and money supply of every country in Europe.


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Onlineqman
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Re: Protests in Hungary After Right Wing Consolidates Power [Re: Bubbles85] * 1
    #25142986 - 04/16/18 12:27 PM (5 months, 29 days ago)

Soros and the gang will set those guys straight, we know they're huge advocates of humans rights and transparency of government. :rofl2:


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OnlineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Protests in Hungary After Right Wing Consolidates Power [Re: Bubbles85]
    #25143022 - 04/16/18 12:47 PM (5 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

Bubbles85 said:
Love how an EU flag just has to be present in the midst of the protesters crying about democracy.

How cliche.

The EU is the most undemocratic governing body in Europe. It gives no fucks for the nation states right to self determination and their right to self govern.

It is a puppet institution of the central banks and nothing more. A means to control the economy, wealth and money supply of every country in Europe.




Nations can leave the EU whenever theyd like.


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OnlineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Protests in Hungary After Right Wing Consolidates Power [Re: qman]
    #25143024 - 04/16/18 12:48 PM (5 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Soros and the gang will set those guys straight, we know they're huge advocates of humans rights and transparency of government. :rofl2:




Soros is largely irrelevant. Especially in Hungary.


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OnlineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Protests in Hungary After Right Wing Consolidates Power [Re: The Ecstatic] * 2
    #25143421 - 04/16/18 03:50 PM (5 months, 28 days ago)

Compelling stuff, guys.


Seems to me right wingers are happy to lick the boots of the real oppressors, as theyre told they have to, lest the refugee hordes force them into sharia slavery.


Any reasonable person can look at the situation in Hungary, Poland, and Bulgaria, and conclude that the woes of the working class are due to systemic corruption and exploitation, and NOT due to refugees.

"But refugees arent helping."

And neither is the right wing government cracking down on civil liberties, public services, and the media.


Which is the REAL problem? Once again I'm left wondering how anyone can see this myopia as anything other than racism. The "build your own outrage" variety pack ideology we see from the reemergent far right in Europe never seems to include actual existing power structures, and instead opts for scapegoating mythical occurences (like Swedish rape gangs, or UK no go zones).

Which leads me to conclude that the far right, as is historically the case, are nothing more than useful idiots being used as tools for the right wing politicians to seize power. And maybe even worse than that: a means to ignore the neoliberal concensus that actually is to blame for much of these tangible, real issues in Europe: stagnant wages, austerity, union busting, systemic corruption, etc.


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Onlineqman
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Re: Protests in Hungary After Right Wing Consolidates Power [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #25143452 - 04/16/18 04:10 PM (5 months, 28 days ago)

It's not an all or nothing proposition like you keep on making it.  The elite have fucked over the native citizens in two important areas- the outsourcing of jobs into third world economies and the importing of labor into the domestic economies.

It doesn't take a financial genius to figure out bringing in too many poor people into an system with lots of social safety nets can potentially bankrupt that system.

The people aren't victims of propaganda, they are fully aware of the game being played by them and they're fighting back in those nations. 

"nothing more than useful idiots"

Many on the right have been "useful idiots" for the elite in the past, but that award goes to the left sucking up to the globalists today. Thinking that more immigration is useful for citizens in the US/EU is based on pure emotion, not the basic economic laws at work today, yet the left gets played time after time on this issue. Hell, they don't even want tariffs or any stop to globalization today, talk about getting played. :lol:

Just wait until the economics break in the developed parts of the EU, they're all going to turn into those Eastern European nations in the political world.


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OnlineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Protests in Hungary After Right Wing Consolidates Power [Re: qman] * 1
    #25143480 - 04/16/18 04:25 PM (5 months, 28 days ago)

Quote:

It's not an all or nothing proposition like you keep on making it.  The elite have fucked over the native citizens in two important areas- the outsourcing of jobs into third world economies and the importing of labor into the domestic economies.




Uhhh, its bigger than just outsourcing jobs and importing labor, its not just those 2 occurences like you keep trying to make it.

Quote:

It doesn't take a financial genius to figure out bringing in too many poor people into an system with lots of social safety nets can potentially bankrupt that system.




No shit, youll notice I preempted this bullshit response in the previous post.

Quote:

The people aren't victims of propaganda, they are fully aware of the game being played by them and they're fighting back in those nations. 




Oh really? (Some of) the people are responding to oppression by electing politicians that further oppress them? And they arent victims of propaganda? Lol okay.

Quote:

Many on the right have been "useful idiots" for the elite in the past, but that award goes to the left sucking up to the globalists today. Thinking that more immigration is useful for citizens in the US/EU is based on pure emotion, not the basic economic laws at work today, yet the left gets played time after time on this issue. Hell, they don't even want tariffs or any stop to globalization today, talk about getting played. :lol:

Just wait until the economics break in the developed parts of the EU, they're all going to turn into those Eastern European nations in the political world.





Blah blah blah. More immigrant scapegoating. More "even though we've seen crackdowns on immigrants, wait till the problem gets worse."

Do you even understand that youre implicitly admitting the problems have little or nothing to do with immigration policy? Probably not.



As the living standards of the West continue to slide, itll be because of power hungry austerity advocates like Orban, and neoliberal capitalism, not starving refugees.


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Onlineqman
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Re: Protests in Hungary After Right Wing Consolidates Power [Re: The Ecstatic] * 2
    #25143529 - 04/16/18 04:46 PM (5 months, 28 days ago)

You preemptive a bullshit response by suggesting that since immigration is so wonderful for EU citizens, any opposition to this successful policy must be based in "racism"!! Wow, so impressive.

And how are these politicians oppressing their supporters?  No, protecting the homeland and calling out these centralized EU scammers isn't oppressing any supporter.

The problems are a combination of globalization, uncontrolled immigration and now insolvent governments from weak economic activity.  It's not an all or nothing situation like you always try to define it.


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OnlineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Protests in Hungary After Right Wing Consolidates Power [Re: qman] * 1
    #25143656 - 04/16/18 05:32 PM (5 months, 28 days ago)

What all or nothing situation am I trying to define? Coming from someone who uses blinding strawmen like:

Quote:

You preemptive a bullshit response by suggesting that since immigration is so wonderful for EU citizens, any opposition to this successful policy must be based in "racism"!! Wow, so impressive.






And then pretend right wing governments are infallible, or that cracking down on civil liberties, public services, the media, intimidating opposition parties, etc, arent oppressive with feigned ignorance like this (and implying the only Hungarian citizens thst deserve to be free from oppression are the Orban supporters):

Quote:

And how are these politicians oppressing their supporters?




Sounds like you have no reasonable response to my comments so youre just reverting back to the classic "well sure there are other problems but I'm gonna keep focusing 100% on immigrants being the problem because I can't bear to critique capitalism."


Capitalism is the dominant economic system on this planet, by a wide fucking margin, and its failing on every continent. You can't stomach this admission so you ignore it, and pretend that if we deport all the brown people and slap some tariffs on China then thats the magic elixir to fix the world.


You simply can't grasp the systemic economic conditions that neoliberal capitalism has wrought. Either that, or you can, and simply refuse to address it.




For others reading: this is what happens when you cobble together an incoherent ideology like national capitalism, you simply have to ignore reality to make it work.


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Edited by The Ecstatic (04/16/18 05:38 PM)


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Onlineqman
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Re: Protests in Hungary After Right Wing Consolidates Power [Re: The Ecstatic] * 2
    #25143793 - 04/16/18 06:50 PM (5 months, 28 days ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
What all or nothing situation am I trying to define? Coming from someone who uses blinding strawmen like:

Quote:

You preemptive a bullshit response by suggesting that since immigration is so wonderful for EU citizens, any opposition to this successful policy must be based in "racism"!! Wow, so impressive.






And then pretend right wing governments are infallible, or that cracking down on civil liberties, public services, the media, intimidating opposition parties, etc, arent oppressive with feigned ignorance like this (and implying the only Hungarian citizens thst deserve to be free from oppression are the Orban supporters):

Quote:

And how are these politicians oppressing their supporters?




Sounds like you have no reasonable response to my comments so youre just reverting back to the classic "well sure there are other problems but I'm gonna keep focusing 100% on immigrants being the problem because I can't bear to critique capitalism."


Capitalism is the dominant economic system on this planet, by a wide fucking margin, and its failing on every continent. You can't stomach this admission so you ignore it, and pretend that if we deport all the brown people and slap some tariffs on China then thats the magic elixir to fix the world.


You simply can't grasp the systemic economic conditions that neoliberal capitalism has wrought. Either that, or you can, and simply refuse to address it.




I can grasp the current economic conditions and I'm not here defending many of those issues that continue to plague the working classes. With that being said, globalization, currency manipulation and immigration are still key issues for the working classes in the US/EU and that's my main concern.

As far as civil liberties being potentially at risk with the new far-right governments, yes that's always a major concern. Lets be perfectly honest, that can occur with any political ideology. I think the article is getting a little carried away with a lot of speculations on what might happen, instead of what has happened.


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OnlineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Protests in Hungary After Right Wing Consolidates Power [Re: qman]
    #25143853 - 04/16/18 07:30 PM (5 months, 28 days ago)

:nojustno:


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