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openmind
curious
Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 13,944
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Re: The Official Woodlovers Thread [Re: Ghost]
#25138970 - 04/14/18 04:39 PM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ghost said: How do you guys prep woodchips and egg cartons? Do you just soak overnight, or do you PC or something else?
I don't know what's ideal or proper lol, but this is what I've done for expanding myc onto more chips and/or carton...
Woodchips...I bring some water up to a simmer at most. Then I toss in the woodchips, turn off the heat, put a lid on it, and then let it sit at least over night if not a full 24 hours. Let the excess moisture drain away from the chips for a bit before I move them into a container or bag.
Egg carton...I simply soak egg carton in the "wood water" after the chips are done, the water that the chips were sitting in. Let em' soak for a bit, then when I pull them out I give it a good squeeze so they're just "moist" and not totally saturated/wet.
That's all I've done...I've had the stuff sitting in bags since January and there's no contam as far as I can see . The myc is spreading nicely and thick.... though maybe a bit slow. I'm not sure what the typical growth rate is since this is my first time doing this (at least the first time doing it semi-properly lol).
-OM
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bacillus
Very Serious Mushronomer
Registered: 12/07/17
Posts: 394
Loc: Central Europe
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Re: The Official Woodlovers Thread [Re: openmind]
#25140136 - 04/15/18 03:21 AM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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It depends on a situation, but usually I soak woodchips overnight. Egg cartons i just give a quick wash under a tap so that they don't saturate with water.
Generally, you have these options:
- just hydrate
- pasteurize (kill molds)
- sterilize (kill molds and bacteria)
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LizardWizard
GnomeGrower
Registered: 01/07/15
Posts: 13,717
Loc: the parking lot
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Re: The Official Woodlovers Thread [Re: bacillus]
#25140154 - 04/15/18 03:44 AM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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Actually, pasteurization kills bacteria as well, it's just the thermophilic bacteria that survive proper pasteurization, and those can only be of help to us in the colonization process and in substrate health.
-------------------- The best things in life can be smelled on one's fingers.
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Ferather
Mycological
Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
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Re: The Official Woodlovers Thread [Re: LizardWizard] 2
#25140250 - 04/15/18 06:00 AM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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Just as a tip, pasteurization only works for a low-no starch, no free sugar and complex media.
If you pasteurized grain, all the endospores will hatch later, using the rich starch + macro-micro nutrient environment. The same endospores can hatch on say coir, however in general they are less prolific than they are on starch.
If I add bacillus to enriched cellulose, it takes about 6-8 weeks to see a spot of slime, however it does colonize. In the same timescale the mycelium which chiefly decays cellulose, should have "fully" colonized.
I have also tested a probiotic cellulose loving bacteria, from dry pet pellet food. The probiotic bacteria produced proper decay of cellulose. Visibly the paper was falling apart in locations where there was no mycelium, mycelial BE and speed dropped considerably.
I have also tested some random archaea, from seaweed, it can survive the standard sterilization, and doesn't even produce endospores. Mycelium cannot kill it, and it can be a primary decomposer. The archaea I have, can decay wood (phenols + cellulose).
Archaea is capable of fixating carbon, and fixating nitrogen, from air, but not both at once. This can be beneficial (nitrogen) or an annoyance depending which one you get.
Example:
Wild Summer oyster benefiting from nitrogen fixating blue-green algae, on carbon rich nitrogen weak wood.
Extra links:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen_fixation
Soil Amendments and Fertilizers (Worth a read). The Carbon:Nitrogen Ratio (C:N).
Edited by Ferather (04/15/18 06:18 AM)
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Ferather
Mycological
Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
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Re: The Official Woodlovers Thread [Re: Ferather]
#25140269 - 04/15/18 06:25 AM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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Just so you all know, the mycelium which we commonly grow, does not fixate carbon or nitrogen, it does fixate oxygen however. Your mycelium requires pre-fixated nutrient sources, these sources are usually made soluble via enzymes.
For example, cellulose is a carbon source, and ammonia is a nitrogen source.
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Adas
Lonely Dreamer
Registered: 12/22/16
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Re: The Official Woodlovers Thread [Re: Ferather]
#25140735 - 04/15/18 10:36 AM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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It's scary to think that some organisms would survive sterilization. I would argue it can't be called sterilization then.
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Ferather
Mycological
Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
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Re: The Official Woodlovers Thread [Re: Adas]
#25141120 - 04/15/18 01:20 PM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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That is technically true Adas, any material that has extreme archaea-other either already in it, or added, would need much longer, or another method. Common fungi, such as yeast or molds, common bacteria such as bacillus and e.coli, will be destroyed after 90 mins, but not everything.
This of coarse depends on the archaea-other and it's ability to decay the media, it may not colonize very much.
Lets say it survives, but doesn't really do much, and lets say it does not facilitate bacteria. Ultimately it would not present as an issue, unless the opposite happens.
If it fixates nitrogen, and you have not enriched for example wood, that would be beneficial. Another example of beneficial, other than nutrients, is substrate defenses.
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Baeomaze
Registered: 11/02/16
Posts: 179
Loc: PNW
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Re: The Official Woodlovers Thread [Re: Ferather]
#25142292 - 04/15/18 11:07 PM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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Just curious if Cyan is supposed to look like this on agar? First pic is next to some cubensis myc. I thought they would look close. Do I have contaminants?
Spores are from a print I took last fall from fruits I found.
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moricz
Inky Cap Cultivator
Registered: 07/14/13
Posts: 969
Loc: EU
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Re: The Official Woodlovers Thread [Re: Baeomaze]
#25142537 - 04/16/18 03:54 AM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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I bet on contam :\
But the center can be, transfer the center to carton then expand
Edited by moricz (04/16/18 03:55 AM)
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bobwastaken
under construction
Registered: 06/17/10
Posts: 1,973
Loc: SA
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Re: The Official Woodlovers Thread [Re: moricz]
#25142702 - 04/16/18 07:11 AM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
moricz said: If someone following our lil' adventure...
The 2 testubs are replaced to the cellar after two weeks of warming and a good dunking.
Conditions are:
12-13 C° RH 95 % lights on from 7:00 to 16:00 misting daily, gently.
I think if we are right we can see pins in a month.
so ...
What is your lighting set up for your cellar grows. Have you experimented with light intensity at all to see how it affects pinsets and fruit body development?
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Poison Drink
Registered: 11/15/10
Posts: 841
Loc: W-Europe
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Re: The Official Woodlovers Thread [Re: Poison Drink] 1
#25143023 - 04/16/18 10:47 AM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poison Drink said: Psilocybe cyanescens Ballard on SDA.
Three days after inoculating popcorn with agar wedge:
I have also inoculated some SDA with three to four year old prints, among which Psilocybe allenii. Hoping I can revive them after a growing hiatus. Fingers crossed!
The Ps. cyanescens grew rather slow on popcorn in my opinion. I believe the grains were a bit on the dry side. After full colonization, I transferred to egg cartons and wood chips. The wood chips were boiled for about 30-60 minutes and kept in a closed pot overnight. The next day I reheated the brown water to hydrate the egg cartons for a few minutes. I am using two different types of wood chips, separately. Growth is much faster now. The larger wood chips were inoculated five days ago and the smaller ones just three days ago. The egg cartons are kept in a ziploc bag in which a tiny gap provides GE.
Sadly I did not manage to germinate the four year old Ps. allenii print. Might try to revisit an old patch, but I haven't been there in years so I'm not very hopeful.
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moricz
Inky Cap Cultivator
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Re: The Official Woodlovers Thread [Re: bobwastaken] 1
#25144711 - 04/17/18 01:38 AM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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Just 5000 (or 6000) Kelvin LED bulbs, 60W equivalent. I have 2 of them. Don't think that is a key for them, maybe just the timing.
I 90% sure that the cycles do the trick. We will know in a month
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bobwastaken
under construction
Registered: 06/17/10
Posts: 1,973
Loc: SA
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Re: The Official Woodlovers Thread [Re: moricz]
#25144720 - 04/17/18 01:56 AM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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thanks Moricz, Looking forward to it
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Ferather
Mycological
Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
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Re: The Official Woodlovers Thread [Re: bobwastaken] 1
#25144886 - 04/17/18 06:16 AM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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You want 4000k or more, LEDs basically don't emit UV, when UV and blue seem to have them most effect on mycelium. Using this image, you can see 4000k LEDs emit almost as much blue as 5000k and 6500k (not mentioned).
Essentially the colour filter in front of the LEDs changes the output colour spectrum. Usually 4000k and 6500k are the same price, otherwise 4000k is enough.
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Govam
Stranger
Registered: 05/23/15
Posts: 94
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Re: The Official Woodlovers Thread [Re: Ferather]
#25145081 - 04/17/18 08:35 AM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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What's the consensus on azurescens growth vs cyaneacens growth? I put MS azurescens to grain jars 3 weeks ago. Grain came out a little dry but I didn't see growth for nearly a week. Then they exploded and colonized the jars within a week.
Turned my best jar into LC and knocked up about a dozen bags of varrying sizes of wood chips. These wood chips had been soaked for 24 hours, then pasturized for 90 minutes and allowed to cool/redristribute moisture content before inoculation.
Today is day 4 since inoculation and I'm not seeing growth. Is this common with azurescens in particular? I remember Stamets talking about a growth difference on wood chips vs grain, but he was speaking of cyaneacens.
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Ferather
Mycological
Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
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Re: The Official Woodlovers Thread [Re: Govam]
#25145591 - 04/17/18 12:51 PM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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Data and method share, some steps are optional:
You will need agar, black tea bags, wooden toothpicks, bleach (depending) and suitable round containers. Start with the agar work then pass onto a small sample of end media to isolate growth. I am using enriched paper, because my end media is enriched paper. Once you have an end media isolate, inoculate your grain. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25145486#25145486 https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25120741 You can also modify your small samples, as testers. Example: You add CaCO3 to test for best pH.
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Neutrino
Maple tree
Registered: 04/14/18
Posts: 53
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
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Re: The Official Woodlovers Thread [Re: Ferather]
#25145610 - 04/17/18 01:00 PM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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I have endless supplies of both hardwood mulch and time. Anyone who has a print to donate (for species cross reference)for some large scale mycological restoration experiments that push the boundaries of what we know and what we are capable of... just shoot me a dm...
-------------------- Tandem bicycles are designed for two riders. Do it together.
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bacillus
Very Serious Mushronomer
Registered: 12/07/17
Posts: 394
Loc: Central Europe
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Re: The Official Woodlovers Thread [Re: Govam]
#25145632 - 04/17/18 01:07 PM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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From what I read, azurescens is among slower growers. My experiences with colonized chips were abysmal, haven't tried grain to wood yet.
@Neutrino, I can send you cultures.
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Ferather
Mycological
Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
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Re: The Official Woodlovers Thread [Re: bacillus]
#25145663 - 04/17/18 01:18 PM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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From past memory both cyans and azures do well on spent tea bags (black), unfortunately so does trich-other molds.
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Adas
Lonely Dreamer
Registered: 12/22/16
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Re: The Official Woodlovers Thread [Re: bacillus] 1
#25145706 - 04/17/18 01:36 PM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
bacillus said: From what I read, azurescens is among slower growers.
Woodloving Psilocybes in general are a bit slow - compared to Oysters for example. But I don't see that much of a speed difference between Cyans and Azzies.
Also, I have noticed that if you boil wood chips in CaCO3 water, they don't have a tendency to get moldy, which is pretty good news. If you just use water, there will be mold. In my experience anyway.
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