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Offlineroarkell
The Roar Master!
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Registered: 08/29/19
Posts: 2,223
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Re: Hanging Gardens [Re: Icon]
    #27518748 - 10/26/21 11:39 AM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icon said:
Quote:

roarkell said:
My question is, if I take some of the pollen from her brothers and pollinate a branch each, those are both F1s correct? And even tho they're siblings, the males were distinctly different, likely resulting in 2 different phenos... so would I just call them F1A and F1B or how would you go about differentiating between the 2?




Assuming the Zombified seeds are F1's then F1 x F1 will make F2. Then letters make sense to me. You could go further and start documenting the traits. Then you can keep record and eventually find which traits are dominant.

For example, if one of the distinctions between your two males is leaf size; Male 1 has big leaves vs Male 2 has small leaves. Let's say the female has big leaves too:

If all F2A + F2B phenos have big leaves then F1 M2's small leaves are recessive and the female is homozygous dominant.
If 25% of F2A phenos have small leaves then F1 M1 and the female are heterozygous.
If all F2A phenos have big leaves but 25% of F2B phenos have small leaves then the F1 female is heterozygous.

The first scenario would probably be most desirable, if big leaves are something you wanted. Then you'd have a homozygous female that would be "true breeding" for big leaf phenotypes. The other two scenarios could be backcrossed with the F1 female to stabilize the leaf trait.




I wasn't looking at physical traits in particular, they were all pretty consistent...

Male #1 had a particular burnt rubber/new tire smell to it where male #2 had more of a tires and skunk smell... definitely gonna use male #2 in my next project, I love that skunky smell!

I also have a male from my next round of seeds (Ghost Punchers by Heart & Soil) that hasn't flowered yet... im planning on taking a couple clones off that one so i can kill him before he starts throwing pollen everywhere... once the Zombified female is done, those clones will take over that tent for some more pollen collection.

If anyone is looking for pollen to play with, I have the Zombified "open" pollen and then collected some from each separately... shoot me pm if youre interested!

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Invisiblemapleleafmarijuana
Archaeotek Magos
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Registered: 03/08/12
Posts: 9,063
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Re: Hanging Gardens [Re: roarkell] * 1
    #27518760 - 10/26/21 11:48 AM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Lots of breeders out there are doing crosses with a limited genepool. I understand nailing down the characteristics of a stand out stud and whatever the female term for stud is. Curious to see who is doing parger scale open pollinations,  where groups of males are crossed to groups of females.


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Vinegar Tom
stay black cocksucker, thats the most important thing - joey coco diaz
Flesh is Weak. All Hail the Machine God!

Edited by mapleleafmarijuana (10/26/21 01:46 PM)

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Invisibleopenmind
curious
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Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 13,944
Re: Hanging Gardens [Re: mapleleafmarijuana]
    #27518845 - 10/26/21 12:58 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Open question to the thread....

As far as mold/rot/fungi in the buds due to humidity/moisture, what should I be looking out for? Or is there no way to tell unless one cuts open a flower? Like with rot caused by caterpillars, I usually see a little dead sugar leaf or a slight brown spot/bract on the flower.

Does it usually start deep inside the flower? Or is it something that can be seen on the outside of the flower in the early stages? Does it appear any different from rot/mold that is introduced by caterpillars? I know there are many different types of molds/mildews/fungi that can infect a flower/plant so hard to say, but just wondering as a general rule of thumb or what the most common mold/fungi infections might look like...?...



The reason I ask...I was removing fan leaves from a branch that snapped last night getting it ready to hang up to dry, and spotted a lil bit of rot in one of the buds. The rot appears to me to be caused by a caterpillar though. Not 100% positive, but it looked pretty similar to the sort of rot I see when caterpillars eat into and shit inside a flower. Pretty sure I even spotted some chew/borrow marks, but again it was hard to tell.

Just wondering how one might be able to differentiate the cause of the rot between a caterpillar or humidity/moisture? Or if that is even possible?

Because if it was caused by humidity/moisture alone that makes me want to pull my plants really soon....but if it was just a nug that a cat crawled up into I'm not that worried about it.



The days through out this week are going to be clear & dry & sunny, and up into the low 70s, plenty nice & warm to keep the plants going but the high humidity at night has me just a lil concerned....Since we got that dumping of rain there is now a lot more moisture present and the late night & early mornings will be damp from dew/condensation (with temps getting down to about 55 to 50 by morning). I'm going to try rigging up a fan though to keep air blowing over the plants at night, see if that helps with lessening the amount of dew/condensation that forms on the plants late at night/early morning.






-OM

.


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InvisibleHobbit GDF
Deadhead
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Registered: 02/14/19
Posts: 3,445
Loc: Terrapin station
Re: Hanging Gardens [Re: openmind]
    #27518874 - 10/26/21 01:18 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

im sorry @openmind. i just dont know anything about the outdoor growing, so i never reply to you. i dont think i would be much help. i have had rot before and i could see it on the flower or if i looked good. but thats all ive ever found it. i didnt see it till it was grey fuzzy looking.
good luck man.

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Invisiblethe_chosen_one
On the Darkslide
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Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 3,088
Loc: 1984
Re: Hanging Gardens [Re: Hobbit GDF]
    #27518979 - 10/26/21 02:34 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Here you go. Found a bookmark in my work computer :facepalm:
This is a great read and man did they put the work in..

https://www.thcfarmer.com/threads/phenotypes-and-genotypes-how-to-know-for-sure-what-your-breeding.74249/

Bookmark this.. can't find the old one, but this one works.

https://www.omnicalculator.com/biology/punnett-square#autosomal-alles-homozygous-or-heterozygous

insert link to aspirin here >>>

a simple explanation of my seed fetish and why knowing them closely helps..

https://growersnetwork.org/cultivation/how-to-grow-200/grow-cannabis-224-mendelian-genetics/


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"Luck favors the observant." - Workman


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Hanging Gardens [Re: the_chosen_one]
    #27519021 - 10/26/21 03:08 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

What does that have to do with your seed fetish? What does the seed tell you?


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Invisibleopenmind
curious
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Re: Hanging Gardens [Re: Hobbit GDF]
    #27519024 - 10/26/21 03:12 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Hobbit GDF said:
im sorry @openmind. i just dont know anything about the outdoor growing, so i never reply to you. i dont think i would be much help. i have had rot before and i could see it on the flower or if i looked good. but thats all ive ever found it. i didnt see it till it was grey fuzzy looking.
good luck man.





Iz all good...I know indoor & outdoor are different games.

I'm out of my element when y'all are chattin' about lights & indoor stuff lol.


I found another spot of rot on the same plant today. I spotted it by seeing just a lil brown spot and a withered sugar leaf, no grey/fuzzy mold. Pretty sure this too was just damage/rot from a caterpillar instead of rot from ambient moisture, though I'm sure the high humidity at night will only help speed up the spread of such.

I cut out the bract/chunk that was rotted.

I do feel that the two spots of rot I've found so far is from caterpillars, looks just like the sort of damage & rot I've seen before from caterpillars (brown/dead looking spot/bract seen on the outside of the bud) but I do wonder if it could be caused by the moisture in the air because this is the very first time I've had plants go through a cool & somewhat moist weather near harvest (it has always been dry this time of year for me, last year it was still in the 80s & even 90s around now and no rain until like December).

I usually have a few spots of caterpillars damage and I did stop with applying BT around the end of last month, so if that's what it is, and that's what I feel it is, I'm not too worried about it. I looked over all the tops on my plants and they all look nice & vibrant, not seeing any signs of anything on the outside of the colas.


There is such nice days ahead this week, sunny & warm & dry (humidity is 48% right now)...but the late night & early mornings will be damp from dew/condensation.

I still going to let em' go for at least several more days. Hoping the fan at night helps with lessening the amount of condensation on em'.






-OM

.


--------------------

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Offlineroarkell
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Re: Hanging Gardens [Re: Hobbit GDF]
    #27519029 - 10/26/21 03:15 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Hobbit GDF said:
im sorry @openmind. i just dont know anything about the outdoor growing, so i never reply to you. i dont think i would be much help. i have had rot before and i could see it on the flower or if i looked good. but thats all ive ever found it. i didnt see it till it was grey fuzzy looking.
good luck man.




:whathesaid:

I wish I could do a few outdoors but alas, I'm not "allowed" to... fucking decriminalize already.

@MLM - I just got the green light from the wife to put in tent #5 and had males from good lineage that I didn't wanna waste... I have no intention of "releasing" any of my work... I was just putting it out there for anyone that was looking to experiment... I paid 60 bucks for some pollen to play with that didn't do anything...

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Offlinekoods
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Re: Hanging Gardens [Re: roarkell]
    #27519037 - 10/26/21 03:19 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

I found a couple caterpillars on my plants yesterday but they seemed to only like eating the ends of bigger leaves and have avoided any area with trichomes



--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Invisiblethe_chosen_one
On the Darkslide
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Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 3,088
Loc: 1984
Re: Hanging Gardens [Re: koods]
    #27519054 - 10/26/21 03:41 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Seeds express traits and potential traits of what you might get from them. It doesn't mean a lot until you get to know the genetics you are working with very well.

Also strong seeds come from mechanically strong flowers. The more of those.. what was the term we agreed on? Nitwits? Yeah, nitwits.. the more there are the less mechanically strong the flower is. Some of that is due to timing, but mostly it indicates if the plant may have underlying issues.. kind of like a person with a heart problem.

Example of mechanics (for lack of a better term) and the relationship between seed and flower. Nitwits don't remember.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/mother-plants-tell-their-seeds-when-to-sprout/


--------------------
"Luck favors the observant." - Workman


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OfflineEnjoil
I'm a teapot


Registered: 10/29/20
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Re: Hanging Gardens [Re: openmind] * 1
    #27519064 - 10/26/21 03:48 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

There’s sometimes wpm that starts with little white spots on the fan leaves. If you don’t take care of it it can spread to your nuggets., but normally wpm can be fixed before it ruin a whole crop.

Bud worms seem to always find the nicest prettiest cola buds and just take a little nibble, then the plant is weak there and the mold starts. Dang bugs!

Hey brother do you use any garden sprays? Neem oil?
Omg, I can’t stand breathing neem! That’s shit burns your lungs so be careful and try not to breathe that stuff.

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Invisibleopenmind
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Re: Hanging Gardens [Re: Enjoil]
    #27519112 - 10/26/21 04:22 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
I found a couple caterpillars on my plants yesterday but they seemed to only like eating the ends of bigger leaves and have avoided any area with trichomes







The caterpillars in my area go right into the buds it seems. They don't mind the trichomes at all and eat right through them.

I rarely ever see any damage to leaves.

I wonder about what their digestion/metabolism is like lol, chomping down trichomes/foliage full of potent resin.





Quote:

Enjoil said:
There’s sometimes wpm that starts with little white spots on the fan leaves. If you don’t take care of it it can spread to your nuggets., but normally wpm can be fixed before it ruin a whole crop.

Bud worms seem to always find the nicest prettiest cola buds and just take a little nibble, then the plant is weak there and the mold starts. Dang bugs!

Hey brother do you use any garden sprays? Neem oil?
Omg, I can’t stand breathing neem! That’s shit burns your lungs so be careful and try not to breathe that stuff.





I'm somewhat familiar with WPM, at least what it looks like, I've never encountered it myself though.

That's another thing I was wondering...if I would start to see mildew & what not on my leaves before rot in the buds?

And yea...caterpillars do seem to find the best looking tops/colas, and then chew/burrow their way inside. The couple spots I've seen so far were on some lower buds, but in general over the years it does seem like they target the best & most prime colas and they go right into the heart of it. The cats in my area go into the bud, not just a nibble on the outside, they eat into and through out the inside of the bud and shit inside it...I believe is is their shit that is the vector/where the rot is introduced. Because even when it's very dry in my area (humidity down in the teens), caterpillars will cause portions of the bud to "rot".


I don't use any neem oil or anything neem related at all...but I do use essential oils (rosemary, clove, peppermint, lavender, etc) and other plant oils (sesame, corn, etc) through veg & early flower as an all around pest repellent/killer (works for mites and most other common insects/pests in my area).

I also use BT for caterpillars (tho I stopped applying it a while ago).

And I have used spinosad a few times over the years.

And Dr. Zymes, which is enzyme/citric acid based.





-OM

.


--------------------

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Invisiblemapleleafmarijuana
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Registered: 03/08/12
Posts: 9,063
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Re: Hanging Gardens [Re: openmind]
    #27519134 - 10/26/21 04:45 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Interview with breeder steve. Famous Canadian breeder, now working with medical marijuana companies in Columbia.



--------------------
Vinegar Tom
stay black cocksucker, thats the most important thing - joey coco diaz
Flesh is Weak. All Hail the Machine God!

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OfflineIcon
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Re: Hanging Gardens [Re: openmind]
    #27519138 - 10/26/21 04:49 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

@openmind

When I've had rot it's from inside out and by the time you see it on the outside it's already too late for that nug. But besides the gray/brown sugar leaves will die and pull out really easily. The bud will practically fall apart when it's bad. If you can ruffle your colas with your thumb and tug on the sugar leaves I'd guess they're okay.

The morning dew would make me worried. I'm with you tho on waiting several more days. I'm doing the same with a tent of ladies that have been ravaged by mites. It looks straight up spooky with all the webbing. Waiting a few more days tho, the flowers are trying their best.

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InvisibleMr. Magoo
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Re: Hanging Gardens [Re: Icon] * 1
    #27519170 - 10/26/21 05:12 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

I'm weird but I kind of like the off peanut butter funk of neem


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OfflineEnjoil
I'm a teapot


Registered: 10/29/20
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Re: Hanging Gardens [Re: openmind] * 1
    #27519178 - 10/26/21 05:18 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

5 years ago I had probably hundreds of caterpillars/bud worms. Since I have been using neem during veg and then this 3-in-1 stuff I’ve only seen two and they were stunted and tiny.

I like spraying it a lot more than neem, it smells like dill pickles and Italian dressing!

Shit is super sticky also. I had fruit flies in a little tent and I sprayed in it and the flies all died stuck to the walls and it was easy to wipe off.

Outside can be frustrating sometimes but you learn so much stuff. Once you get a handle on your climate and what to expect your stuff should just get better and better every year.

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OfflineIcon
Bloomer
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Re: Hanging Gardens [Re: Mr. Magoo]
    #27519196 - 10/26/21 05:37 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Mr. Magoo said:
I'm weird but I kind of like the off peanut butter funk of neem




Can you spray neem during flowering? I've been hands-off once the flowers start forming. I sprayed with green cleaner once and the pistils died off.

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OfflineEnjoil
I'm a teapot


Registered: 10/29/20
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Re: Hanging Gardens [Re: Icon]
    #27519237 - 10/26/21 06:19 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

I forgot the pic of the stuff. Doh!
No don’t use neem after week 1-2 of flowering. Your buds will probably taste awful if you do.

You can use this 3-in1 stuff all through flowering. I try not to spray the last 2-3 weeks.  I rinse the plants really well during harvest just in case any oil or soap is still around.

Edited by Enjoil (10/26/21 06:23 PM)

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OfflineA.k.aM
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Re: Hanging Gardens [Re: Enjoil] * 1
    #27519268 - 10/26/21 06:44 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Lmao I’d love if nitwits becomes a common term.



So I’m not sure what to do with my reversed clone. I can’t tell if some are dying or trying to open. I’ve been watching for pollen on the leaves but haven’t seen any so I picked a couple pods off and opened them. They had nanners inside but no visible pollen. Should I just start picking them as they open and dry them out and crush them all up and try using that??

Shitty picture




Triple cheese is going purple, ten weeks tomorrow. I think I’m gonna let it run one or two more weeks because the stuff from last time at 8 weeks was just instant paranoia for me. I cut one off today just to do it.




It smells amazing but I’m ready to be done with it. The genetics just suck.  The first one collapsed at six weeks and this one needed every branch tied up by 8 weeks. It drinks really slow and all five clones I took for seeds have weak root systems. Plus both big ones I flowered had a few nanners.


--------------------
LAGM2020

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OfflineNichrome
I'm a torso!
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Registered: 12/17/18
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Re: Hanging Gardens [Re: A.k.a]
    #27519454 - 10/26/21 08:59 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

F1xF1=F2


--------------------
“Tea is the magic key to the vault where my brain is kept.” – Frances Hardinge

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