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InvisibleRevok
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Unidentified narcotic has people losing their heads... * 1
    #25126391 - 04/09/18 07:36 PM (1 month, 15 days ago)



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OfflineFractal420
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Re: Unidentified narcotic has people losing their heads... [Re: Revok]
    #25127443 - 04/10/18 04:59 AM (1 month, 14 days ago)

Uhhhh.... this is fucking insane, 5am, was not ready for this.

But i dont really see what drugs have to do with this, seems this lady is psychopath to the power of 10.

"She had narcotics" like what, vicodin?

:shrug:

Crazy is crazy. Id say if anything at all, shes prolly a tweaker on top of that.


Edited by Fractal420 (04/10/18 05:14 AM)


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InvisibleEminence
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Re: Unidentified narcotic has people losing their heads... [Re: Fractal420] * 7
    #25127451 - 04/10/18 05:14 AM (1 month, 14 days ago)

Yeah, but then there were multiple other cases where bath salts were actually involved in some other crazy killings. Why do people get so defensive over research chem stories here? Yeah there are some nutjobs out there for sure, but have you ever been through drug induced psychosis? Saying "yeah but that person must have already been insane" is not an argument for the drug because lots of people have mental problems but don't go around collecting heads until they get fucked up enough with the wrong drugs. You guys on here (not you specifically, but I see this all the time) attack anti-depressants and shit like that all the time and then go "well it wasn't the bath salts' fault!"

Not even saying this was the drug's fault here either (if there were any involved), just saying it's not so black and white when it comes to mentally unstable people and drugs that can induce psychosis on their own with enough use.


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OfflineFractal420
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Re: Unidentified narcotic has people losing their heads... [Re: Eminence] * 1
    #25127459 - 04/10/18 05:23 AM (1 month, 14 days ago)

Because its never the drug's Fault. And this story has nothing to do with drugs.

I see how the ban hammer works. They have their eyes on a substance, someone does something stupid not even related, and they pin it on the substance. Its been done over and over and over in the years of the RC's, and the Only things that make people act insane like that are unknown doses of unknown blends. Which is not the case here, it seems. Why do i act defensive when it comes to psychedelics? Because that one miami face eater that never tried a single rc got every 2cx compound banned, for example. And most of them never hurt a fly. the truly dangerous rc's never get banned. Its the ones people on forums like this write about saying theyre "awesome".

But this story is unrelated to all that it seems. I just dont get why drugs are mentioned at all. If she DID have an unidentified powder, the headline would be "new drug makes people behead loved one", disregarding every other factor. Thats really the problem with this type of thinking.

And all those "horrible killings", who knows what those people used if anything at all. Like the miami face eater who was proven to be clean. They could all be nothing but crazy. Or just PCP. Even amphetamine psychosis usually doesnt lead to shit like this.

Cause id say even the term "bath salts" is used to induce panic for no reason. not that this story has anything to do with them....but youd think so, right!!? Thats what i mean. Crazy murder= must be a novel compound

If you must know why it gets under my skin. So for example say you really are being helped by MXE (im just making up a scenario, i have very little experience with that one) in terms of depression and all that. And then politicians have an eye on it. Someone commits some foul horrendous act that youd have to be crazy or on dust to do, and they can just take out mxe with zero evidence. Just an example. None of these chemicals, when used knowingly at least, are going to cause murder. People can act nuts on those cannabamimetic blends, but i dont believe it would allow someone to commit murder if they never would without the drug. You can assign whatever side effects you want to the unknown and people will believe it. Btw, it was obama's democratic administration that axed all those RC's, sadly.

But all that and seeing how the media blames drugs and then laws are passed, thats why i feel strongly about this. They take away something that helps you because of, who knows.


--------------------
Dreaming of That face again.
It's bright and blue and shimmering.
Grinning wide
And comforting me with it's three warm and wild eyes.

Prying open your third eye



Edited by Fractal420 (04/10/18 05:53 AM)


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InvisibleEminence
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Re: Unidentified narcotic has people losing their heads... [Re: Fractal420]
    #25127473 - 04/10/18 05:49 AM (1 month, 14 days ago)

Wasn't talking specifically about psychedelic RC's. I just said RC's, but I mainly had the stimulants in mind when I said that. What do you mean it's unrelated? It says she seemed inebriated and that they found some unidentified narcotics on her during this. So drugs are a factor in this story, even if we don't know what. Again I'm not saying people can't do this shit without drugs involved, but it's just as nutty to say "it's only because he/she's already crazy" when stuff like this happens if that person is on psychosis doses of certain drugs. Crazy people can go their whole lives without killing someone but sometimes it just takes an extra push to get to that level of crazy and some drugs can do that, and you can't deny some drugs are WAY more likely to push people there than others. I mean, I've stolen from friends while I was blacked out on benzos and didn't even remember it, and I'd never do that if I had a clear head at all. Would you say that I'm naturally a thief and the xanax just brought it out of me, or that I just didn't give a damn at the time because I was too high on the wrong drug?

Also, yeah I also completely disagree with how they go about banning drugs, but that doesn't mean it's just as nonsensical when they ban one drug as when they ban another. I don't give a damn if "bath salts" are banned personally because the world's probably better off without them but I'm kinda pissed about the whole kratom situation.


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OfflineKonyap
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Re: Unidentified narcotic has people losing their heads... [Re: Eminence]
    #25127503 - 04/10/18 06:39 AM (1 month, 14 days ago)

This chick was up for three days straight on meth.
I know someone who did PCP and was up for days straight and did he do this? No.  A lot of people smoke it once and go to the loony bin, without doing anything even though they can't even speak english or know where they are.

Quote:

http://people.com/human-interest/kaylee-muthart-speaks-out-gouge-out-eyes/

Kaylee Muthart, the woman who ripped out her own eyes while in a meth-induced psychotic state last month, is finally home and hopes for a better life after losing her sight.

Muthart was found gouging out her own eyes with her hands outside of a church in Anderson, South Carolina, on February 6. The 20-year-old fought off help from locals while in a state of delirium, and it eventually took a team of deputies to restrain Muthart long enough to transport her to the trauma unit at nearby Greenville Memorial Hospital, where doctors broke the news to Muthart’s mother, Katy Tompkins, that her daughter was completely blind.

After an extended stay at the hospital and a psychiatric facility, Muthart returned to her mother’s home on March 1, and started her new chapter without sight — but with a new state of mind.

“It’s the same life, but I’m just learning everything in a new way,” Muthart tells PEOPLE. “Life’s more beautiful now, life’s more beautiful than it was being on drugs. It is a horrible world to live in.”

Months before the incident took place, Muthart says she was given marijuana from coworkers that was possibly laced with either cocaine or meth. She felt a high that she had never experienced before, and once she researched her symptoms and discovered this, she left her job and co-workers behind. She would remain out of work for another month until she landed another gig, where another coworker pressured her into trying meth for the first time. Eventually, she gave in.

“I took a video while I was on it, and I had been up three days straight,” she recalls. “I eventually got taken home and got sober and watched the videos, and put that person out of my life and stopped using the drug.”

Though she stopped using meth for a brief period of time, Muthart returned to it as she started feeling isolated and lonely. Just days before she was to enter a rehab facility, Muthart used meth and experienced a hallucination that warped her perception of her relationship with God, and then led her to the railroad tracks outside that church on an early February morning.

“I thought everyone who had died was stuck in their graves, that God was up in Heaven alone, and that I had to sacrifice something important to be able to release everyone in the world to God,” she says of her hallucination. “It made the world darker, and took everything I believed in and distorted them to make me go down the path to pulling out my eyes.”

“It was scary, I didn’t understand what God wanted of me, but it made me feel a sense of righteousness that I had to be the one to do it,” she recalls. “And I was glad to do it because I’ve always had a big heart and nobody’s ever giving me that love back.”

As Muthart walked closer the church while she searching for an acquaintance, she felt time was running out to save the world, she made her sacrifice.

“I proceeded to pull out my eyes with my bare hands and twisted them, and pulled them, and popped them,” she says. “I told the pastor who showed up, ‘Pray for me, I want to see the light, pray for me.’ ”

Today, with the help of her mother, Muthart is working out her experiences of that day, and trying to reconnect her faith.

“I’m learning Genesis to build my foundation,” she says, before letting out a laugh. “When I do something, I go big or go home… obviously. Humor is something that gets me by, laughing, music, that day itself.

Aside from trying to reconnect to her faith, Muthart is also learning how to live without sight. She says there will be much work until she’s able to feel normal once again, but she’s learning to adapt day by day. One of the things that have taken her by surprise is the phenomenon of the human form of echolocation, where the blind use sound to navigate their surroundings.

“I’ll forget I’m blind sometimes because I know what’s around me,” she says. “Not down to a tee, but I know what my mom’s house looks like. You still see, but you don’t see with your eyes, it’s hard to explain because I don’t even understand it myself.”

This has helped keep her from bumping into objects around her home, and it offers her a bit of hope that she’ll be able to move around independently as she refines this new skill. There have also been a few things that have taken almost next to no adjustment at all, such as her ability to strum a guitar. In fact, she just learned how to play Green Day’s “Time of Your Life,” just an hour before speaking with PEOPLE.

“It’s just pretty cool to be able to play another song,” she explains. “Because it’s another melody you can play through your B.S. with.”

Music, she says, is something that has helped her recovery from all that she has gone through, from that morning in February, and before it.

Muthart says she is expected to go back to rehab for another four weeks in the near future, but she’s been keeping herself busy before then by serving as a public speaker for the Commission for the Blind. She also hopes to raise enough money for a seeing eye dog through her GoFundMe page that has raised more than $18,000 of its $50,000 goal. Most of all though, she wants to share her story so that others know the dangers of hard drugs—something she is happy to finally have out of her life.

“I’m able to be Kaylee again. I’d rather be blind and be myself than be Kaylee on drugs, and I truly mean that with my heart,” she says. “I’m Kaylee Jean Muthart, just like I was 10 years ago. Just better.”




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Offlinedurian_2008
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Re: Unidentified narcotic has people losing their heads... [Re: Konyap]
    #25127608 - 04/10/18 08:19 AM (1 month, 14 days ago)

Someone removed his genitals, making a social statement about sex.

Eyeball lady talked about a spiritual kind of sight.

But, what did the head lady use them for. :shrug:



Edited by durian_2008 (04/10/18 08:25 AM)


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Offlinetacodude
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Re: Unidentified narcotic has people losing their heads... [Re: durian_2008]
    #25128061 - 04/10/18 12:37 PM (1 month, 14 days ago)

wow all this discussion over a troll news post.... The only thing this has to do with drugs is she was found with drugs.

To add my 2c drugs can only trigger underlying conditions, bit the ones more likely to do that are definitely considered riskier especially when there is less benefit.


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OfflineLeAto
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Re: Unidentified narcotic has people losing their heads... [Re: tacodude]
    #25128139 - 04/10/18 01:11 PM (1 month, 14 days ago)

I agree with Eminence and I disagree with TacoDude...  Sorry Tacodude, some times rc's can cause a psychotic break with no underlying condition.  Its the dangerous flip side of unknown chems.  Clearly this lady had issues to begin with but your blanket statement that you must already have a problem to develop a psychotic break is flat wrong.  Eminence is right, bashing pharma and then defending rc's is backwards, imo it is the misuse of critical thinking skills...  You believe your logic is sound but in reality your just pushing your world views regardless of evidence...  Stupid people might as well be anti-vaxxers or flat earthers....

~ LeAto, your friendly 82nd Airborne Veteran Medic


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InvisibleRevok
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Re: Unidentified narcotic has people losing their heads... [Re: tacodude] * 2
    #25128212 - 04/10/18 01:37 PM (1 month, 14 days ago)

I resent the implication that this was a troll post. The fact of the matter is that they(the reporter) use an unidentified "narcotic" in such a manner as to place blame and or motivation Upon This Woman's heinous actions.

This kind of lax  reporting in journalism is exactly of the inflammatory nature which continues to pigeonhole everyone who is involved in the use and or approval of "illicit" drugs.


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Offlinetacodude
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Re: Unidentified narcotic has people losing their heads... [Re: Revok]
    #25129510 - 04/10/18 10:25 PM (1 month, 13 days ago)

There's no reason to assume they are RCs send really there's only one mention of drugs and that's The fact the person was found with drugs... I never insinuated that RCs don't lead to psychosis and I rarely post because people put words in my mouth like this. I just pointed out this article really has nothing to do with drugs and I called it a troll post because the title misleads people to think the article is about drug use causing a psychotic break when it's just someone who happened to be using drugs that was decapitating people...

Anyways I'm not here to argue semantics I'm just pointing out the op made a joke out of this story, but whatever it turned to a cool discussion. Just didn't want anyone else confused as I was by the misleading title.


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InvisibleRevok
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Re: Unidentified narcotic has people losing their heads... [Re: tacodude]
    #25129711 - 04/10/18 11:43 PM (1 month, 13 days ago)

Umbrage sir, i take umbrage.


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OfflineWeAreMushroom
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Re: Unidentified narcotic has people losing their heads... [Re: Revok]
    #25129741 - 04/10/18 11:57 PM (1 month, 13 days ago)

She said "let me get my heads" plural, but they only found one head.

Does this lady have other heads stashed somewhere? Whose heads might they be?

So many questions, so little answers.

:hmm:


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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: Unidentified narcotic has people losing their heads... [Re: Eminence]
    #25129949 - 04/11/18 02:43 AM (1 month, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Eminence said:
You guys on here (not you specifically, but I see this all the time) attack anti-depressants and shit like that all the time and then go "well it wasn't the bath salts' fault!"



That is a little weird though isn't it? I've noticed that myself. People defend RCs to the end of the earth.

Sometimes I wonder if some posters are vendor puppets trying to increase sales... :tinfoil:


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OfflineFractal420
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Re: Unidentified narcotic has people losing their heads... [Re: nooneman]
    #25130138 - 04/11/18 05:55 AM (1 month, 13 days ago)

Why is this an RC discussion anyway?

Really.

And of course "certain rc's might cause certain reactions" but same with the classics

The "RC's" that are in Tihkal and Pihkal are generally/mostly not anymore dangerous, all are made for human consumption. I wasnt referring to stims and cathinones.

Sure, some people are seemingly fine till something, anything triggers them. But you cant just blame the trigger, IMO.

to me, blaming drugs and not people who smoke random sprayed chinese chemicals on potpourri and expect nothing to go wrong, with like 9 unknown substances on there... i think blaming the drug is wrong, rc or not. People know these blends are just a "whatever's clever" mixture with no oversight. Everyone has seen the news by now.

But yeah, this is not an RC story. So lets stop making it one


--------------------
Dreaming of That face again.
It's bright and blue and shimmering.
Grinning wide
And comforting me with it's three warm and wild eyes.

Prying open your third eye



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OfflineFractal420
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Re: Unidentified narcotic has people losing their heads... [Re: nooneman]
    #25130139 - 04/11/18 05:59 AM (1 month, 13 days ago)

Quote:

nooneman said:
Quote:

Eminence said:
You guys on here (not you specifically, but I see this all the time) attack anti-depressants and shit like that all the time and then go "well it wasn't the bath salts' fault!"



That is a little weird though isn't it? I've noticed that myself. People defend RCs to the end of the earth.

no, its just me. Lol
I dont sell rcs. Or anything. I just think the only drugs that should have their rep dragged through the mud are the lethal fent analogs. And even then, users need something in its place. Use an analog active at like 3mg, then itd be a bit like DOX.

With the way people use opioids of Course the nanogram, uneven distribution is gonna kill people when they shoot the carfent

But i will say there are some amazing research chems that are safe psychedelics and i dont want more of them to be ban-hammered. Ps like i said, not even like mxe, more like the 1980s pihkal mescaline analogs


--------------------
Dreaming of That face again.
It's bright and blue and shimmering.
Grinning wide
And comforting me with it's three warm and wild eyes.

Prying open your third eye



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OfflineKizzle
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Re: Unidentified narcotic has people losing their heads... [Re: nooneman]
    #25130140 - 04/11/18 06:00 AM (1 month, 13 days ago)

Quote:

nooneman said:
Quote:

Eminence said:
You guys on here (not you specifically, but I see this all the time) attack anti-depressants and shit like that all the time and then go "well it wasn't the bath salts' fault!"



That is a little weird though isn't it? I've noticed that myself. People defend RCs to the end of the earth.

Sometimes I wonder if some posters are vendor puppets trying to increase sales... :tinfoil:



It's for the same reason gun lovers say, "Guns don't kill people. People kill people" They don't want them to be banned.


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OfflineFractal420
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Re: Unidentified narcotic has people losing their heads... [Re: Kizzle]
    #25130149 - 04/11/18 06:13 AM (1 month, 13 days ago)

^basically, yes

But i still draw a distinction between "not-really-rc-but-psychedelics" that shulgin made in the 80s, lysergamides, and then the stims, cannabinoids and opioids.

Chems like 2cb are completely fine. Same with all of its cousins. Mescalphetamine? Shit sign me up. Since they were made with the intent of human use, its quite different than some dude finding a "more potent mda analog" in some journal, for chimps, and start manufacturing for human use. I cannot stand by these newer chems. But my trust in Shulgin's work is strong. And whenever i see the RC debate, i feel bad for Shulgin's actually spectacular legacy. He wanted to unlock psychedelia in many more substances than what we have available, using psychedelics probably alot more delicately than alot of people today on these forums. Writing down dosage and salt, doing the synth himself and writing out the steps.

Compare with the "Dave Nichols" RC's of today (NBOMEs and such), Not meant for human use, some have been toxic to humans. Anyway these are certainly more dangerous than the 80s psychedelics. People just need to realize its not the same thing. And to research the individual chem.

(Hence why the blanket term "bath salt" is so annoying, it lumps everything together)



--------------------
Dreaming of That face again.
It's bright and blue and shimmering.
Grinning wide
And comforting me with it's three warm and wild eyes.

Prying open your third eye



Edited by Fractal420 (04/11/18 06:23 AM)


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InvisibleEminence
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Re: Unidentified narcotic has people losing their heads... [Re: Fractal420]
    #25130227 - 04/11/18 08:02 AM (1 month, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Fractal420 said:
Why is this an RC discussion anyway?






You edited your post after my first response so it kinda made my post pointless since it was in response to the portion you deleted.

Also haven't "bath salts" always been some kind of amphetamines or cathinones? I've never heard of that being an interchangeable term for all RCs.


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Edited by Eminence (04/11/18 08:19 AM)


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OfflineFractal420
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Re: Unidentified narcotic has people losing their heads... [Re: Eminence]
    #25130238 - 04/11/18 08:16 AM (1 month, 13 days ago)

Oh yeah i was editing my first post and you got back with a reply before i was done lol.

Oh well, im always up for a friendly debate on topics that matter to me.

This story is weird tho. My point was drugs are always to blame in the absence of other evidence


--------------------
Dreaming of That face again.
It's bright and blue and shimmering.
Grinning wide
And comforting me with it's three warm and wild eyes.

Prying open your third eye



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