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Rose
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NDA Law
#25118290 - 04/06/18 12:21 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Hypothetically...
Can I get a NDA written up to keep my wife from talking to or mentioning my father, without me ever having to notify my father of the NDA?
(This will become a Stormy discussion if things go as planned... so consider giving me a little leeway, I expect it will become political soon enough).
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Kryptos
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Re: NDA Law [Re: Rose]
#25119000 - 04/06/18 05:05 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Can you get it written up? Based on your ability to write this post, I'm gonna go with yes.
Will it be enforceable? Well, that's a whole legal hairball.
With the rise of huge NDAs and non-competes in a variety of industries, to the point where estimates put between one third and one half of the total workforce under some sort of NDA right now, and the fact that a lot of these NDAs are kind of insane, many are believed to be legally unenforceable. You can make a barista sign a non-compete that bans barista-ing for someone else within a thousand miles, but it probably won't hold up in court if they do barista somewhere else and you sue them for damages.
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Rose
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What I am getting at is a paradox. I realized that Trump’s lawyer, Cohen, paid hush money to Stormy to keep her quiet about her relationship with Trump. Trump claims to have known nothing about this deal.
So...
If that story is true, I wonder if it is legal.
Can a third party pay someone to stay silent about something they were never involved with in the first place? Can a third party pay someone to be quiet about someone else, without notifying BOTH primary parties?
I mean, Stormy didn’t spank Cohen with a Forbes.
If I were rich enough, could I pay someone to stay quiet about someone I never knew, like their mom, and legally win a lawsuit against them if they violated it, just to fuck with the personal lives of people I don’t even know? You know? For fun? And never tell the mom what I did to her family?
I mean, if this Trump story holds true, his lawyer attempted to erase someone from Trump’s past, without telling Trump about it. If that is legal, I can come up with some beautifully evil ways to use contractual silence to fuck with people and facts.
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Kryptos
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Re: NDA Law [Re: Rose] 2
#25119056 - 04/06/18 05:21 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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If you spend enough on a lawyer, probably.
I don't believe Trump when he says he didn't know anything about it. I don't believe anything that Trump says anymore, actually.
Edited by Kryptos (04/06/18 05:22 PM)
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Rose
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I am asking, “Is their latest story about the NDA plausibly legal?” Can people in Trump’s past be legally silenced from talking about Trump, by Trump’s personal lawyer, without Trump’s knowledge or signature?
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Kryptos
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Re: NDA Law [Re: Rose] 2
#25119085 - 04/06/18 05:28 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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That's an Enlil question. Enlil?
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Enlil
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Yes.
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Rose
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Go on... ask him.
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Mr.GuessWork
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Re: NDA Law [Re: Rose]
#25120746 - 04/07/18 12:49 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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I think it's funny that he's trying to use a NDA to hide something he doesn't want to own up to, which is what your nice logical argument is getting at. I'm pretty sure NDA's were designed to protect intellectual property, which is something you DEFINITELY want to claim ownership of. I think the general idea behind the NDA is to say "This is mine, and you can't talk about with anyone else so it stays mine, AND I've put other safeguards in place to make sure everybody knows this is mine. PS remember that it's mine and nobody else's god damn it!". Using an NDA to hide the existence of an affair is hysterical, and the use of a pseudonym to hide the identity of the signers is comically stupid, since it's not binding without evidence that the pseudonym clearly refers to the actual person by their real name. You'd think that having to sign a document with a fake name would be a pretty clear indicator that the idea is just a good way to create official evidence of the act you're trying to hide. This is what happens when a stupid guy hires a stupid lawyer to hide a stupid act. I can only hope he's got similar documents with his Russian friends, Though I suspect they aren't stupid enough to sign anything like that unless they wanted to use it as leverage.
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Rose
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It is *sorta* what I am getting at. As that is the crux of the WHOLE issue, but I want an answer to something simpler. Does Trump’s cover story have any legal standing?
I just wonder if you can legally write up and enforce a NDA for two parties without notifying one of the two parties about the NDA... the party you actually work for. The party who is supposed to pay you.
Could my lawyer erase people’s ability to freely talk about me or my past encounters with them... without me, their fucking client, being told about it?
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Mr.GuessWork
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Re: NDA Law [Re: Rose]
#25121146 - 04/07/18 03:32 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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I strongly suspect that can't happen, unless they try to play it off as negligence or something like that. I'd be very surprised if a lawyer could make an arrangement for an NDA about a client's love affair and keep the client at arms length or whatever while he did it. A lawyer could probably do something like that for intellectual property if he had some sort of official role or office where was given that power, but I don't think it applies in the case of covering up love affairs, unless trump has set up a special office for just that purpose (he is a prolific sleazebag after all). Even if that were the case, I don't think claiming ignorance would hold up in court since he's supposed to communicate with his counsel.
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Enlil
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Re: NDA Law [Re: Rose]
#25121188 - 04/07/18 03:52 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rose said: It is *sorta* what I am getting at. As that is the crux of the WHOLE issue, but I want an answer to something simpler. Does Trump’s cover story have any legal standing?
I just wonder if you can legally write up and enforce a NDA for two parties without notifying one of the two parties about the NDA... the party you actually work for. The party who is supposed to pay you.
Could my lawyer erase people’s ability to freely talk about me or my past encounters with them... without me, their fucking client, being told about it?
Yes, people can contract away their right to tell a story.
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Mr.GuessWork
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Re: NDA Law [Re: Enlil]
#25121308 - 04/07/18 04:53 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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I think Rose was trying to ask if Trump's lawyer could create an NDA that involves trump without informing trump about the NDA. In other words, Is it plausible that trump could credibly deny knowing about the NDA through some sort of legal mechanism?
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koods
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Re: NDA Law [Re: Enlil]
#25121320 - 04/07/18 04:55 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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I think what he's asking is a contract valid if the client is unaware of the contract being made between himself and another party. Trump said he did not know Cohen made the NDA.
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Enlil
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Re: NDA Law [Re: koods]
#25121353 - 04/07/18 05:07 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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If the question is whether an agent can contract on behalf of a principal without the principal knowing, the answer is yes. If the question is whether two people can agree to a contract that affects a third party without that third party knowing, the answer is yes.
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Rose
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Re: NDA Law [Re: Enlil]
#25121523 - 04/07/18 06:24 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: If the question is whether an agent can contract on behalf of a principal without the principal knowing, the answer is yes. If the question is whether two people can agree to a contract that affects a third party without that third party knowing, the answer is yes.
That is the answer I was looking for and holy shit, it is scary. The rich can sorta buy their own reality and past. Eep.
Now, can a lawyer legally get a party to agree to stay silent about the lawyer’s client, while claiming it is on behalf of the lawyer’s client, without ever having to notify said client?
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Enlil
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Re: NDA Law [Re: Rose]
#25121548 - 04/07/18 06:38 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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No, but that doesn't make the contract any less binding on the client.
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Rose
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Re: NDA Law [Re: Enlil]
#25121556 - 04/07/18 06:45 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Hence the coming filing to see if it can’t be undone...
Ok, yeah, that is where the Trump version of the story breaks down. I can’t see how a client’s attorney can go behind their client’s back, handing out payoffs that directly relate back to their client’s own past. That seems all kinds of illegal... and could be used by lawyers to play both sides for their own gains.
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Enlil
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Re: NDA Law [Re: Rose]
#25121570 - 04/07/18 06:50 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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In any case, it only leaves the attorney culpable.
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Rose
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Re: NDA Law [Re: Enlil]
#25121606 - 04/07/18 07:09 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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So far, I agree.
A few more pieces would have to fall into place to see this as a campaign contribution that Trump willingly accepted. But, I do hope that still might come to light. Personal bias and whatnot.
It seems more likely Trump knew of this whole thing.
How do you think the odds are for some kind of deposition or discovery at this point? Or do you think at this point, it could be swept back under the rug with arbitration? It is kinda public knowledge at this point. No?
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