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In Sterquiliniis Invenitur Registered: 05/09/18 Posts: 480 Last seen: 4 years, 4 months |
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That would make alot of sense. The Geo does seem to have more Toyota in it than GM.
Yeah they had to teach them all kinds of stuff because they were just awful. They said they would go to work drunk and put bottles in door panels so customers would have a rattling noise. It's pretty funny actually. Speaking of Toyota and you liking BMWs, how do you feel about the Supra/Z4?
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Diddler de niños Registered: 03/12/17 Posts: 1,483 |
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When I started the BMW STEP program in early 2000s the Z4 roadster bad just come out. I hated the styling.
After a few months of seeing it every day in the shop it grew on me, driving it and seeing that long hood in front of you and on tbe 3.0L engine they actually had a intake pipe from the air filter housing run to the firewall for no reason except engine noise to the driver. BMWs always had excellent sound insulation in the cabin, absolutely excellent sealed cabins with cabin air filters, and as such you lose a lot of engine noise along with the tire and wind noise. Things like that are what made me like them so much. Or that the Z4s had two stage brake lights only the lower brake light half would light up on gentle to medium braking but both would light up on a hard brake. And BMW is the only manufacturer I know of that includes brake fluid flushes as part of their free maintenance package on every new vehicle. I just can't say enough good about what they used to be. I don't know anything about any other z4 except the E85 which I was trained on the complete vehicle it's like four weeks 40hrs a week at the BMW school. Supras I don't know anything about. I like their styling usually. I drove a 92 model one time. It was alright nothing to write home about. I always had unrealistic dream cars when I was a kid, the Diablo, jaguar XJ220. There's very few production cars I fanboy over. The BMW love was warned over time as I learned about them and was in awe. Shit, I couldn't tell between a 3 series or a 5 series our first day, none of us could lol! Our first few tests are learning BMWs entire history and memorizing all the chassis designations for the different cars and studying pictures of them to tell which one's which and how a 7 is different than a 5 than a 3. Many people don't know the "roundel" emblem of BMW is a white propeller blade against a blue sky. They began with world class aircraft engines. I think Lamborghini began making tractors.
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In Sterquiliniis Invenitur Registered: 05/09/18 Posts: 480 Last seen: 4 years, 4 months |
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I'm asking you about the 2019 model. The one that's been talked about by every automotive journalist for months haha. The joint venture by BMW and Toyota to make the new Supra/Z4. It could be likened to the Toyobaru twins (FRS/BRZ). Except apparently the two will be different animals. Despite being on the same platform.
Yeah I knew about the propeller and tractors. Fun tidbits of automotive trivia for those who don't know. From my automotive experience BMW adds alot of unnecessary things that serve just to add money to your bill when they break. 2 stage brake lights for example. But an older m3 is always a dream for someone who turns their own wrenches. Mmmmmmmmmm....E46....yummy.. But this new BMW Supra isn't really my thing. I'm sure it'll be a nice car and very capable but adding BMW to the mix feels like a take away from the Supra spirit. The 2 companies don't have the same MO. The Supra was a reliable sports car that took out scorecard of the time from the factory. All while combining crazy reliability and over engineered design. The 2j is hard to follow. But not many other companies have a reputation for inline 6s like Toyota and BMW. So it's not the worst. Not too mention that I dont really like new cars.
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Diddler de niños Registered: 03/12/17 Posts: 1,483 |
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I agree about BMW and Mercedes and the like having too much to break, I don't think it's from the little things like two stage lights which takes not much extra it's from the rapid release of technology between the two as a rivalry, none of the systems had enough R&D, so many luxury options that the vehicles end up with 50+ control modules no joke, the 750i when I left the industry had 46 control modules, indluing one for each door to control all the advanced air pressure crash sensors and window switches and automatic sunshade switches and window locks and then one more for each seat to control all the heating cooling and multi vibratory functions including one that feels like a literal hand coming out of the seat to grab your ass. Multiple seat memory settings, 9 way adjustable seats etc
These are the reasons they are so fragile now and expensive to maintain. Hell it took me over an hour just to adjust my seat in my M5 and I had two dedicated settings one for hauling ass one for cruising. Yeah I don't have a clue about what you're talking about that's why I stay out of this thread for the most part, it's like music. Back in the day I knew all my favorite bands and the names of the singers and who they used to be in bands with and all that. Who fucking cares. It takes a lot of time to keep up on all that which we never realized In high school or whatever because we were all trapped against our will and had free hours. Same thing I find myself not reading car magazines or reading new automotive articles or shows or anything because that's just not how my time is spent anymore I've been chasing a lot of new angles in my life lately. I still fix them regularly, and drive them and all that. But there's only so many hours in the day and I simply don't keep up on any of that I don't hear anything in passing and don't watch tv Off the top of my head I think it sounds horrible, if BMW had any pride left they would say fuck Toyota and their wanna be nice Lexus brand and have a staunch rivalry but after the 1 and 4 series have come out now with their X and M car variants, turbos are slapped on everything and now they're known for having engine fires in other vehicles powered by BMW, im not surprised they have some shitty ideas like having a teenager team up with Toyota. That's what it sounds like. A bad movie aimedbat 14 year old teenyboppers who can't even drive yet. A la "fast and furious" fame which is already 7 sequels too far gone. I think by principal it's a disgusting failure of an idea. B I think BMW had it made when each of their models was different for a reason different sizes different purposes. All this hybridization and making overlapping models like the 1 and 4 series all these partnerships to try and create bastard transformer kids half Toyota half BMW running around getting made fun of by all the pureblood Chevy's and even shitty Ford's even how fucking pathetic. Have pride in your product and who cares if you sell ten million, be the standard of quality that successful professionals aim to own and drive, not a temporary hype that gets a rash of cars sold and then on to the next hip idea. Maybe they had to change their business model to stay profitable who knows. After all in germany many BMWs don't even have power windows or cupholders or any options really it's a common vehicle there, the luxury brand is an American thing. BMW for real for real was the Ultimate Driving Machine to me. But that ends when they do shit like this. But thays just me. I don't care how cool it looks or anything, I hate it sight unseen just on principal Edited by Humble Newcomer (06/25/18 05:51 AM)
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Diddler de niños Registered: 03/12/17 Posts: 1,483 |
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Every car owner will fall somewhere in a spectrum, on the one side you have Henry Ford's idea of one car, one color, no options, all the same, ultimately it will be made super efficient super reliable and it will be crazy cheap.
On the other far side you have complete lack of frugality and reliability, wildly changing designs every year or at least every few, wants multiple choices colors cool partnerships maybe, always something new. I fall in the middle, maybe even a little more on Henry Ford's side. My thing is I don't love many cars, when I do it's an inside and outside and all around kind of love it's when you feel they got every styling and performance and feel detail right. And then they go and change it the next year bc the market demands constant change. The heart of the technology is not improving at a fast rate.(engine, fuel economy) internal combustion engines are on average less than 33% efficient. The changes are only styling and minor technological improvements each time, which are usually rushed out before they're ready anyway leading to customer irritation. I know I'm not the popular vote here but I say change less often and be more ready when you do change the car. But I just say that bc I could drive an E39 or E46 or E60 for a decade easy. When you get it right, you get it right.
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In Sterquiliniis Invenitur Registered: 05/09/18 Posts: 480 Last seen: 4 years, 4 months |
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Wannabe nice Lexus brand? Uh okay. It has a far better reputation for longevity and reliability over BMW. In my experience anything BMW touches gets a collective groan when it comes in the shop. Now if I took a class such as yourself and was BMW trained, which is pretty cool btw, I might feel differently. But around here the general consensus is that (some) BMWs are cool but everyone hate working on them and owners pay out the ass to own one just for the badge and the three letters.
I don't get how you come up with your positions sometimes. For one Lexus has absolutely nothing to do with the project I am telling you about. Which would literally take you typing in 4 letters (supr) into a search bar and the prediction would show you the 2019 supra and everything in talking about. And two. BMW is the one making it a luxury ish car. Their version will be more posh. Toyota's will be the sportier one geared toward track days and such. The Toyota will cost around 60k. 70k will probably be reached with special packages. But I digress. I'm not a fan either just your logic is waaaaay far away from mine. But it makes for a good conversation. It's not even really made by BMW. They outsourced it to a company that made the last z4. Well the company only made it in the literal sense. It's their facility BMW used. They did last z4. The G wagon I believe. And some other mercedes stuff I think. So it's a joint effort between Toyota, BMW, and Magna Steyr. What breaks my heart personally is that the inline 6 is going to be BMWs. Not that they don't know what they are doing as I've previously stated. If I couldn't choose a Toyota inline 6 Id choose a BMWs hands down. But it's even in the Supra. The politics at Toyota are obviously more about money in this project rather than legacy. They had one of the greatest i6 engines in the last supra and they didn't design a new one for this. Oh well. Maybe one day the guy who was going to end up buying a Mark 4 will end up buying this new one and that Mark 4 will be mine. And yes the overlapping models like 1s and 4s are fucking ridiculous. 3,5,6,7. That's all. Fuck Xs.
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Diddler de niños Registered: 03/12/17 Posts: 1,483 |
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I've taken all the classes ans have the nice plaques and awards and I still agree with both points y'all have because they're undeniably true. When your first step upon pulling a BMW in the shop is to hook a $1000 battery charger up to it so you can actually have the key on for more than twenty minutes without having a dead battery, you know you're working on something different than a car.
They're cars but they're not, I consider them in the same exact class as Lamborghini or Ferrari and their ilk. Everything is over priced, to really own one and use it like it's designed to be is out of the price range of most people with respectable careers even, yes you get more but you pay way more for that little bit of more and because it's so electronic it's doomed to fail. Lol I totally agree. I honestly compare walking into the biggest BMW dealership in Houston as a pimply faced 19 year old at just as difficult stress and intellectual wise and almost anything in the medical field. Not only did I have a steep learning curve of learning to be a mechanic and get the basics down but every week we had a roundtable meeting where they would announce what new technology was coming out and how to fix it. Our paychecks were commission based, if you fixed nothing you made nothing and you're a kid fresh our of school being asked to figure out why something 100x more complicated than the equipment we landed on the moon with isn't working right. A 1985 obd 1 vehicle is about as complicated as the technology we landed on the moon with. That's 1 power train control module that wasnt even an EEPROM it was only an EPROM. All the instruments hooked into one computer and it ran the calculations. Today's cars can have three or more separate CAN networks, a fiber optic system for faster response of signal in crashes, and 40+ computers most of which can't communicate with each other they have to go through gateway modules. Now I'm digressing. Yeah Lexus is way more reliable than bmw. BMW is space machinery on wheels that's why we had such long schooling post automotive school, we already knew how engines worked and ignition systems worked, we needed to know that after the engine was shut off and say the #1 Piston made it to bdc when the mechanical engine actually stopped, well the DME is going to fire off #5,3&6 cylinders after the engine has stopped to make sure any fuel in the intake air charge in those cylinders is burned rather than becoming evaporative emissions. Tons of things like that, I'm a huge nerd who likes to talk about automotive technology more than fix it because, as anyone who has taken a six week drivelines class can tell you, the human race is made od geniuses. From the first wheel chiseled out of stone to new 8 speed automatic transmissions with additional clutchpacks to disengage the input shaft of the transmission at stop signs and red lights, this let's the torque converter and flywheel spin with less drag at idle reducing emissions. Again, to the reason why Lexus and BMW are different. Lexus made a smart move staying in the merely nice range. Keep the car Toyota reliable and slap some finish on it. That's a very smart move and a much smarter choice of ownership if you ask me. However in no world ever is it a BMW. It has half rhe technologies like I listed above because as badass as they are, half of them overall have small gains compared ro the potential cost tag of failure. Like the BMW clutchpack I described above. The other half like the E46 Intake manifold was designed in such a way as to gain slight benefits of forced induction without having turbo or supercharger on it. I forget what it was called, basically it was the befinninfs of their intake manifold designs where when one cylinders Intake valve closed the air charge wasgoing in so fast it sort of ricochets back and when the next cylinder opens it gets it's natural charge plus a little poof from this ricochet. Again, minimal gains, cost thousands of engineering hours to acheive, but they proudly teach us about this as we are looking at an E46 M3 that gets 333hp to the wheel out of a tiny 3.2L naturally aspirated inline six cylinder. Very distinct engine noise when that thing runs due to many things, mainly the fact it was creating 3-4x the power per square inch as my 4.0L inline six Jeep Cherokee just from sheer genius and engineering. Most companies wouldn't spend the R&D money they'd slap a turbo on it and exceed the power we would get thru this. But that's a good way to explain who I am as a mechanic and why I love BMW. Maybe because they have a race team and every gain in R&D can go to them and the M cars etc, I always thought it was because of superior Aryan race engineering you know, hell the batteries are put in the back of the cars to maintain a 50/50 front to back AND left to right weight ratio. Who else does that? Go ahead, I'll wait. BMW, while not the most reliable or cost efficient choice, is pushing the envelope with every step and using the rich as Guinea pigs to further automotive technology as a whole really and Mercedes is doing the same. But in exchange they have a factory melt down pure gorgeous and they throw buckets of it inside the car in every corner, where Lexus had wood grain strips BMW will have multiple fat strips of more color options including literally white and purple suede that looks baller out of a rap video or you can easily program your M5 to open the sunroof and turn on your blower motor on high speed at 3:50pm every day so when u get out at 4 your car is cool in the Houston hot air. Or the handful of females who rode in my M5 with the M button pressed and all 507 horsepower galloping down a slightly curvy road and when I blip the wheel on purpose just a little the sides of both our seats fold in on the side you were sliding too and hold you dead center on the curve, I never tell them about it I wait until the flirty giggle and they ask what happened. The last girl called them "M5 hugs". It had different settings for fuel, ignition, transmission shift points, suspension stiffness, and turned the heads up display on my windshield when I hit the m button, funnest thing in the world is to gun it up to about 4 or 5 k next to someone, and then hit the m button and you feel the car kick literally like a bull for a second as that instaneous 107 horsepower kicks in as you're holding a solid 4500rpm and then you floor it up to 8250. That sooooooound. So many stories in that car. When I sat down in the newly released E60 M5 as a punk ass kid in Houston it was immediately apparent I was in no mere car, it's an absolute supercar. Immediately apparent. Even the wood Grain on the door panel was like an albino purplish suede with white in it where the wood grain strips would have been, some extravagant option. The amount of gorgeous they can cram on a door and a dash is awe inspiring. As a regular guy its simply unrealistic to own anything except a 3 series or maybe a 530. Not even a 550. So maybe my logic isn't away from yours. It's just a different question. If I wanted to make a smarter investment I'd go with the Lexus or possibly a new 3 series I'd have to look into it heavily. Honestly though, again, Kia comes in strong bc they're dabbling in nice cars now. Same business model highly reliable but now very focused on comfort and style now. I'll gladly rock a nice Kia/Hyundai over a Lexus bc they will do a cheaper more efficient job of the same thing. Now if you ask me which ones nicer or which one I prefer (that was the question) or which one is more advanced or which one is more complicated it's hands down BMW. The nicest Lexus or Acura or whatever is equal to top tier 3 series or mid 5 series imo. A 550, M5, any 6 series, any 7 series, and most Mercedes blow Toyota our of the water for that category. It's canned sardines to trout almondine in luxury or engineering or preference. Anyone that diagrees hasn't soend much time around luxury cars I'd water, everyone has a friend who has a nice car, I was forunate, momentum BMW is next to momentum jaguar and momentum Porsche in Houston and we saw many lambos and Ferraris on trade ins. We would walk over tl the Porsche dealer after hours and smoke cigarettes and yell cat calls in their shop about their water pump being broken and they need to look at it (air cooled Porsche engines, dumb jokes lol just fucking with the other guys you know) In fact, to my chagrin I'd have to admit Mercedes is nicer than bmw across the board. On every model and I don't think that's arguable. But I would equally say BMW has infinite more road feel through the pedals and steering wheel and suspension. And through these things the same horsepower feels like more. Again, not arguable imo. Just like their business model to be one or two heads above every one else (except Mercedes and super cars of various brands), BMW chose to be the ultimate driving machine vs Mercedes ultra luxury. I'd say the vast majority of ppl I hear talk about cars compare the two like they're equal but that's so far from the truth it's immediately apparent after driving just to or three models of each. Across the board Mercedes has soft suspension aimed as a drug dealers paradise, constantly used as elite limos, slow stylish driving making an entrance. I don't recall ever seeing a European Mercedes cop car. Dominantly BMW and that's for the suspension alone I bet. Rock hard so u can feel everything and have no loss in cornering is BMWs way. Mercedes AMG cars you'll see here and there in foreign armored vehicles because it's such a symbol of luxury and wealth but BMW is more common for those applications because out lf the box they're sportier across the board. I tried to shorten this but I don't know how so who cares it's good reading Edited by Humble Newcomer (06/25/18 02:38 PM)
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In Sterquiliniis Invenitur Registered: 05/09/18 Posts: 480 Last seen: 4 years, 4 months |
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You may want to research Lexus before making claims. They have some of the most advanced tech in engines ever. See the LFA. Even back to the 80s and 90s they were advanced. 1UZFE was very advanced back in its time. Toyota as a company does luxury very well. The new Century makes a 750 look like an aveo. And costs more than any BMW. The logo itself is hand engraved for like 3 months. Lexus only exists because Toyota wanted Americans to differentiate between "common toyotas" and a new luxury brand. Same with Scion. They thought we wanted a hip cool teen brand of cars. When everybody who actually liked cars preferred Toyota badges anyway. They should have just stayed one brand in America.
And no. Just no. There is no pedal to road feel in a bmw. They are all drive by wire. No steering wheel connection to the wheels either so again, it's all engineered to make you think it feels that way. Even the noise in some cars is fake. I don't know if BMW has that. Jag does. Any "road feel" you think you feel is bmw engineers fooling you into thinking you feel one with the road. You say it's not arguable except it is. There is no connection to the road in any modern BMW. It's a computer that lets you point it in a direction. Same could he said about most modern cars. But overpriced luxury cars are even worse. And no BMW is in the same class as hyper cars like the two you named. It's a luxury/sports car brand. It has never produced a super car the like of a lambo or ferrari. I8, M6, whatever. There's no bimmer that can stand with a Sesto, 458, LaFerrari, Or really any if the 2 brands high end cars. You need to do more research. Your bias is showing. But luxury in cars is something I feel is waste of money and a byproduct idea weak society softened by capitalism. I don't by a car for s tus or leather or whatever. I buy it for reliability and to use it. If I want to go fast I'll build a 2j or 1uzfe and throw it in a pickup or celica and destroy anything BMW can make for the same price. If I wanted a 450hp BMW. Even a 90s one or early 2000s. I'm spending 30k or so. Put 30k in my wallet and tell me to make some fast toyotas I can have 2 400+ whp vehicles with some shopping. At The end of the day the "ultimate driving machine" is expensive, fragile, excessive, unreliable and trendy. Alot if their work stood this long because it's fantastic engineering. But as a general rule it's overpriced that people who like status symbols buy to look rich. As far as police cars. It's politics. BMW got the contract for many reasons I bet. AMG is a legend. Maybe moreso than M Division. Them and Cosworth did amazing things. Edited by Gonzo the Eternal (06/25/18 05:13 PM)
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Diddler de niños Registered: 03/12/17 Posts: 1,483 |
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Well you must remember when I left, and the BMW that I owned of that period were in many ways not the way new ones are. I expressed my disdain of the way the company went / is going. The vehicles I have immense knowledge of and speak of when I talk we're still very much connected to the road there was drive by wire simultaneous with a physical throttle cable for many years. Probably in more companies than just them during this scary transition in the industry and this happened for several years. Probably fkr thw whole E46 run, if not sinxe at least the facelift on until rhe E90 came out. Do your research before accusing, sir.
I typed a whole argument about how most cars now are all electodnic connections even Hyundai's don't have power steering pump anymore it's all steering wheel angle sensor telling the computer how much to move the steering column worm gear motor, if all cars are that way now, yet cars give different road feels which they do, (same sensors and software in tow different cars but a different gear ratio between worm drive gear and column driven gear and you'll have a massive change in road feel, genius) that means a car can definitely give a "better" road feel than another even with both lacking physical connections. It can be a very different driving experience, as explained by driving common BMW and common Mercedes models as I said. Different approach to suspension altogether soft ride for drug dealing slow entrances and a tighter feel for hugging corners every single time you drive. M cars and AMG don't count they all have stiff suspensions. Many common Benz do not. My point. I'm going to step out on a branch here and say you've driven minimal BMWs and Mercedes vehicles maybe one or two. it's showing. As well as my bias, well of course my bias is showing. We all have favorites, this whole thread Toyota has been yours and BMW has been yours. What a surprise that we come to disagree, but both our biases are showing friend. As I've said from the beginning I don't keep up with new fanboy literature or watch the the shows or buy the stickers. Perhaps I am wrong on some current Lexus. I wouldn't say many of them though. Ive never heard of this 3 month engraving a decal you speak of nor do I care - these details are so insignifigant in ones daily life, again it's a reminder of when I was in high school and didn't realize that all tbe magazines and other resources I consumed just to fill the time since I was always bored ans forced to be elsewhere than I wished, filled my brain by osmosis with all these facts about cool stuff I'll never own. But that time for me is long over. Perhaps not for you. The M5 I was trained on had eight separate throttle bodies I had to synch to each other with a dial indicator and then the master rod was hooked to the throttle assembly. Yes the DME cut the throttle out on me all the time as I drove these E39 m5s around hauling ass but it was a mechanical connection. Again, I realize I'm the odd man out here. When you eat sleep and breathe these technologies as much as I did when you got off you wanted to go skydiving or mountain biking. I asked my skydiving instructor if he spent his days off at the dropzone with friends doing advanced level shit and he said no he sleeps in late and walks his dog at the beach. Took me a few years to get that but I was a kid back then. Why would I want to read about what Toyota or Chevy does after a full day of juggling two cars in and out of my own two bays all day, pulling a five series in to pull a power seat out, driving out on a five gallon bucket to park it in the lot and pull in another car. It's commission I was a juggling bastard. On my breaks I go around and see what all my friends were fixing each day and bs. Magazines are for the dreamers not the doers. I don't know who you are or your level of actual world experience, nor do I care. I'm in an opinion thread, about what's "better". It's all bias. I still feel to this day that Lexus is two steps behind BMW and Mercedes in how far they step out and how much they cram in a car, perhaps that's wrong today but it didn't used to be. Perhaps it's an indicator that when asked questions I think in this time capsule of the 2004 time comparison I'm thinking of because again I haven't even heard Lexus' name in years bc simply no one gives a shit about them and no one wants to own them over here I have one buddy who was major fanboy over his '92 and I get that, we were poor and it's a nicer boxier Toyota. Honest to God, around here Lexus is mainly SUVs for blonde housewives theyre as common as infinity cars which is, not very. Does that mean they don't have badass cars? No. But no one cares that the obscure Mexican restaurant down the road has badass enchiladas either. No one wants to put effort into looking. Truth. At the end of the day I don't need to do research, it's all irrelevant you asked me a question and then had a strong negative response in all your words. I don't think there's anythibf you said that I couldn't argue on. I may be wrong on new Lexus (and I hate old 7s and esp new 7s prob I hate all new BMWs so again I'll agree with you on all that) but If I felt like arguing I could argue that it's a temporary upswing for them and a downswing for BMW. We are looking at a fifteen year range between two long lived companies that will probably survive longer. And to be honest if you go pre 1990 I think they all looked like crap and what separated luxury from economy was much smaller than it ks today. So that will change as well in tbe Future. You never know who youre talking to on the internet but I think I've learned my lesson about participating in opinion threads. At tbe end of the day, this "Lexus" company that you speak of that's so great, is nothing more than a collection of design engineers, and mainly, the vision of a select few chief engineers and the big wigs. A "companies" direction, definition of beauty and relevant, etc will all change, and can change quite fast based on just a few personnel changes. It's all temporary. And like I pointed out to you when you confused branding vs iconic cars, when the next chassis model of whatever Lexus you like comes out it's a completely different car. Most likely done under the same team with similar vision, but very much able to have hidden problems not yet discovered and what you may live about them today may be subpar tomorrow or just flat out ugly. That's a problem I have with so many cars I don't care how good it is if it's ugly. Today I choose to spend the reminder of my time sanding these hardwood floors in order to flip this house I'm living in, I'm wondering if the winds are going to be too high for skydiving over the island this weekend, how my multiple grows are going and whether my buddy can go to the water park with me next week. In no way does any magaizine or TV show enter my day I don't even have tv just a fire stick for movies or late nights. Everything ive learned I was paid to learn whether it was my dad talking over my shoulder as I torques the damshaft caps on a 12V71 Detroit diesel v12 as a teen, which was sold and paid for our skydiving schools or after all the interviews I was selected for the STEP program and they paid for literally Six months of books, tuition and all the teachers salaries and over two million in cars to work on or the years of fclases ive taken by numerous big names in the industry like the hunter wheel alignment class I had that was so badass. I'm very behind, cars haven't entered my mind besides "what's wrong with my /my friends / this chicks car" and I do a little research and, usually, fix it. Post 2004 I left the automotive industry and learned almost as much as I know about cars in all the other fields of mechanical I've worked in. Bulldozers, bomags, excavators, ocean fire water pumps for drill rigs, lawn mowers and weed eaters, big ass hydraulic shears for excavators that demo buildings I worked i. A department that modified stock excavators to handle the massive columm of fluid those shears took, tying into the hydraulic circuit, fabricating new lines and hoses. I spent a long time with natural gas compressors, 40,000 cubic inch natural gas engines you crawl inside the crankcase to work on. I was responsible for six thousand horsepower for years and years and there were multiple times when I got called out to fix it and if I didn't within a certain amount of time another station forty miles away would have to wake up and fire their compressors up to maintain line pressure, if the gas gets below a certain pressure even the electric generation facilities go down. Hospitals colleges. These are the biggest consumers out here in the sticks. Hell for five years I was a lead mechanic of a traveling 2-3 man group that would fly out to Jersey, Cali, NY, wherever, Pennsylvania a lot with the Marcellus shale, and I would guide 18 wheeler gas compressors up on the sides of hills and level them out and hook up to the pipeline and run them. I've changed out 93lb starters in the hail when a unit went down in Illinois, I know the weight because I flew it back home on Southwest, I've been called out for numerous no starts, trained half a dozen of fine mechanics that are still out there flying over our heads right now working in the rain fixing shit. My confidence cup is full my friend. I have found such wild adventurous jobs within my chosen profession that even in my free time I crave doing the badass. I was mad when I read your reply but I've reminded myself of who I am through all this and reminded myself that you're probably just some sharp mouthed 17year old like I used to be. 17 year old me would definitely irritate me lol At rhe end of the day, any fanboy attitudes can change over night because of the many reasons I've stated, it's just tbe vision of a few guys. Each new model comes on a new chassis ans never has enough time to study it's reliability. Knowing those facts, for me I'd rather get up and live my life. If someone wants to pay me bank to learn their products I'll be the best wrench they have. Until they do it's self induced consumerism to sit there and fanboy and have strong opinions, it's a waste of time to sit there and drink the koolaid. And with this I'm leaving this thread. I'd much rather learn or teach than get butthurt over short sighted opinions of another. Good luck to you Gonzo you're pretty sharp I hope you put it to use.
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Stranger Registered: 04/02/18 Posts: 374 |
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I haven't read all of this but will later. Check out this race. It's a Zl1 Camaro vs a Dodge Demon. From a roll the Zl1 literally blows it away. I don't understand how a 650 hp car destroys an over 800hp car from a roll like this. I know the Camaro is lighter but not by so much this should happen. The race starts around 10 minutes if you want to skip to it.
I read a little about favorites. Everyone has them. But GM is race proven. They have dominated almost every form of racing at certain times. I don't think they back any racing anymore. At least they didn't 8 years ago. The 5.7 has won more than any engine in history. What engines are put into the most cars? The Chevy small block. From hot rods to Fords to foreign cars now. You cant beat the performance potential, reliability, and value of them. Gm was the biggest car company in the world for 77 years until Toyota took over recently. They have recently came out with active fuel management, four wheel steering, and magnetic adjustable shocks. I just seen a Lamborghini with 4 wheel steering and I think Ferrari and Lamborghini are using the magnetic shocks. Back in the 90's the big supercars had high horsepower but very low torque. they put up big top speed numbers but the acceleration wasn't all that spectacular. The American cars started coming out with high horsepower and torque forcing them to step up their game. On youtube the fanboys are hilarious. They can't face the facts. I see Europeans bashing American car interiors. In the reviews from European people they praise the interiors of the Cadillac and others. People that own multiple cars say the ZR1 vette interior is nicer than McLarens and whatever. I seen a video of a guy who traded his GTR for a ZL1. Everyone was saying it's a downgrade. He says it's a much better car. It performs better and in everyday driving it is much nicer. I just seen a comparison between the ZL1 and a Shelby mustang. They said the ZL1 drove like a luxury car. It's a serious track car but drives like a luxury vehicle. Around 7 years ago I had a Toyota Corolla rental. I hated it. It drove like crap on the highway. Last year I got a Nissan Versa rental. I wanted to take the Kia but the woman I was with wanted the Nissan. The thing had the most uncomfortable seats I have ever sat in. It had no power I almost died trying to pass a semi. Sometimes you would give it gas and it wouldn't accelerate and other times it would. The brakes were also touchy as hell. You would barely touch them and your face would be almost slamming the steering wheel. On the mountain roads the thing sucked up gas like a 60's muscle car. I had a Ford Escape rental last year and I really liked it except for the engine shutting down every time you stopped. Not impressed by the Japanese cars at all.
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Diddler de niños Registered: 03/12/17 Posts: 1,483 |
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To clarify about the ridiculous sounding bmw is in same class as Ferrari and lambo part is that unlike most cars even Camaros mustangs, 330s, 530s, the high end M cars and AMG cars everything is built with performance in mind vs reliability amd strength. So for example when I smashed the left side of my m5 into a Concrete median at I dunno maybe 25mph, it totalled out the whole front subframe. The immediate damage I saw was my lower ball joint had separated in the impact, and knowing that all thw suspension and steering components are a tiny sliver of aluminum or magnesium they have zero structural integrity unlike the great hunks of iron that make up upper and lower control arms in a vast array of vehicles.
Regular three and five series already have lightweight control arms but the M cars it's literally just a sliver of aluminum is a really weird angle to give strength in all the right angles and that's it. The bushings weigh considerably more than the link. The front end of these cars rely much more on rhe engineering angles of operation than by having a large stout piece, to this day I'm shocked at how thin some of these things are. Any vehicle I was in would have had a screwed up rim and a good chance of a busted ball joint. A lot of vehicles I should have gotten away with a bent rim and lost dignity and no more, drove off. I've wrecked a great many cars lol. Miata for example I bet it wouldn't have done much. Any reliable over the road car built for exonomy would have survived I bet. But it was a 12,000 accident that required my entire front subframe to be replaced. And the car is so expensive insurance paid it no questions asked. Also I don't know of any other manufacturer except Mercedes and these dream cars we both agree cost 3x as much as the M5 that supply their dealerships with literal $1000 battery chargers wrapped in thick plastic and it's SOP for first thing to plug the car in as soon as we pull in. Again never to be learned unless you're there, but if I wanted to open a shop of my own and wanted it to include servicing BMWs I would need ro double my equient expenses compared to fizing just,a oh I dunno, five or seven other brands with the usual stuff. Including one of those battery chargers for the special AGM batteries BMW runs, the more feature laden cars would have a 12 amp draw sitting there with the key on engine off, that's ridiculous, 12 amps at 12 volts, that's 144 watts of energy just to power up everything and have it all speaking to each other for me to communicate with it. Most cars you can get away with a snap on scanner amd various obd 2 packs and you'll have access tl everything but BMW any interface that wasn't required by federal law wasn't there, for example I couldn't command the car to sweep it's gauges or roll down the windows or do any of the fommands you usually have access to, I got engine PID data and a snapshot of the conditions of failure if a DTC was set. Minimum govt requirements. Any independent garages that advertises it works on bummers will have a BMW DIS troubleshooting station inside, this $20k roll around cart houses an oscilloscope, all your probes wires leads for several different diagnostic modes and interfaces, and you plug the car directly into this large computer. With the DIS you could practically command it to dance. I have never once in my life used a scope to diagnose anything besides a BMW. Never once in my life seen a Toyota shop (used to go over to a Toyota shop daily for two weeks as our wheel alignment rack was down and we used theirs) that had a scope. Every single bimmer shop will have one per every few techs. Have you ever sat in a lambo? They cost 200k plus across the board amd have uncomfortable cheap plastic interiors. The senior mechanics at BMW who had more experience told me they're notorious for having vents break and knobs ans cigarette lighter and it costs a fortune to get your replacent cheap part. It's all geared for perfomance from the ground up. But if you look closely, it's not that much better than many AMG models or M cars. It's impressive what the Germans can do on a racetrack while aimultany weighing down the dash and door panels with four pounds of premium Italian leather. The knobs and switches work, and look good doing it. I feel that they are the same value of purchase (I said earlier same class) as most lambo and any bare boned Ferrari. Ferraris get lush and have legendary racing pedigree but the lambos are crap for the money. And what BMW didn't contribute on their own as competition towarsa Ferrari they reverse engineered and now have comparable technology. The SMG transmission was based off Ferrari racing trans. M5 has extremely lightweight space age suspension components that bend under a harsh insult, still has minimal skin thick ess all around. Unlike a sporty 330 that gets side smacked or maybe even a z roadster, the high end m cars are fragile bc of the extreme engineering required to get all that weight moving at such a pace and are crippled in tbe same situation. Replacing those parts costs exponentially what another BMW model or common car mod would cost, the equipment needed for day to day operations of repairs is vastly different,and special tools. Oh my, special tools. At Chevy we had a handful of special tools back then. That's probably way different now but it was mainly scanners. Ball joint tools the usual. BMW there is a tool for everything and again you'd have to buy half of them to repair them and it's just crazy. Again it's like space machinery on wheels. Ever done a rear wheel bearing on an E46? Ita crazy unnecessary and space age like. Where's the Chevy 3 bolts on the back side and we're done??? All these reasons separate the high end BMWs from any Lexus I've heard of and most of the vehicles period. It's Not really good things either, it's not bragging rights it's simple facts. Unfortunate ones Imo. I absolutely compare high end BMW and Mercedes to almost any lambo and several bare knuckle supercars for the reasons listed. So unclassy of me to get offended in here I need to get out more. These are conversations that I could see completely differently based on how much experience I had out there and then there's the whole "better" thing too. Y'all a good night
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Stranger Registered: 04/02/18 Posts: 374 |
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I was trying to avoid this getting into what company was the best but it happened. I seen comments and just ignored them.
I was born in the 70's. I have been around performance vehicles since I was 16. I have also always worked on my cars. Where did I state that all foreign cars are crap. I stated that everyone believes foreign cars are better. It is evident by how many you see on the road much more than American cars. As for sports cars I see more Camaros than anything. The Camaro ZL1 is 650 hp. The ZR1 vette is 755 hp. Americans have been tuning cars since the day after the model t rolled of the line. I was trying to find the Lexus engine you were referring to as the most tuning potential. I didn't and didn't feel like looking anymore. What is the displacement on that? The new GM small blocks are 6.2. There is no replacement for displacement. There are so many parts for GM engines from proven companies. I really don't see many fast foreign cars when I go to the track. I live near Route 66 where they have the NHRA nationals and Nascar races there. Where are they all at? The fastest I have seen a Japanese car at the track is low 13's. I see street Camaros, vettes and mustangs running 9's and lower. I know they are out there. I see all these younger people with civics with a muffler thinking they have a fast car. Do a search on youtube for ricers talking crap. They are hilarious. They don't know crap about cars and just tell lies. When I had the G8. After I took it to the track. I told my boss I ran an 11.8 He was like all the foreign cars are running 10's. Where are they? If I put slicks on my car I would have been in the 10's. I put the smallest supercharger available for it and exhaust. I could of put a cam in it and made the same power for maybe 800 with exhaust. That is nothing. Not even close to the potential of that engine. It was a 6.0. The newer ones are 6.2. You can make crazy power with them. With the LS1 heads,cam, and exhaust put you in the 9's that was a 5.7. When I was at the track a guy with an LS1 Camaro ran a low 10 and they kicked him off the track. All he had was a supercharger. I have yet to see any foreign engine with the tuning potential of an American one when you consider reliability but I haven't really been looking lately.
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Stranger Registered: 04/02/18 Posts: 374 |
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Quote: The 442 is all original with under 10,000 miles. I don't have that kind of money now otherwise I would. I would never buy a car just to sit in the garage. I would drive it in nice weather and beat on it. I seen another one the same with 40,000 some miles for 24,000 all original. I don't know what kind of work it needed. The cutlass is bad ass. I love the 80's cutlass as well. I had one. My first car was a 79 Olds Delta 88 with the 350 rocket. I would put a new tire on every month. One day I just bought a new tire and did a burnout. I didn't even brake torque. It just smoked it all the way down the block. I was driving and heard a noise from the tire. I got out and looked. The belts were sticking out. I beat the crap out of that car. I was young and didn't care. I didn't change the oil for 4 years and a crank bearing went. My friend in high school had a 72 442 with the 350. Blue with white stripes. It was a nice car.
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In Sterquiliniis Invenitur Registered: 05/09/18 Posts: 480 Last seen: 4 years, 4 months |
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Damn these replies are getting long. And no. I'm not 17. But I get an idea of your age since you jump to calling someone 17 when they disagree with you on the internet about cars. If you're going to have such strong opinions that come out of left field then prepare for strong pushbacks. You can be a BMW fan all you want and it's cool that you have so much knowledge and training. But someone can call you biased (cause it's true) and you can not get offended and call them 17. You admit yourself you don't know anything about alot of stuff but you follow with strong opinions on that stuff.
@ds yeah that small block is as ubiquitous as it gets. Fun fact. The Nissan r32 had 4 wheel steering in the 90s. I was blown away by that. I also never said anything about a Lexus engine with the most tuning potential. I said a 2jz is one of the most tunable and proven engines around. I don't know how you couldn't find it if I literally told you what's it was called. The only Lexus I mentioned is the 1uzfe. A 4.0 liter v8. Never claimed it had the most anything. In every case an ls engine is better for power. A 1uzfe is just cool and if you're not wanting 500+hp it's a great swap choice. It can make 1000 but an ls engine can do that SO much cheaper. It's easy to throw anyone who doesn't like American cars into the ricer category but it's false. I love American muscle. It's just not the best. I hate the civic you speak of. But when there are 800 hp 4 cylinder K series out there the ole saying "there's no replacement for displacement" really shows it's age. Yes there is. Power to weight ratio. Gearing. Torque curve. You said it yourself. You have no idea how a demon lost to a zl1. Cause the zl1 is a better car. Lighter. Better power band. And less displacement no? And it's also easy to act like I'm taking about corollas and shit when I say I like toyota. I don't care how shitty a rental toyota was. I'm not a Corolla guy. I'm talking about the serious performance toyotas and the quirky little cult ones. I don't care about how shitty a rental Corolla was or who drives a Lexus suv or new Lexus sedan. I'm taking about one Lexus v8 from the 90s and a handful of Toyota models also form the 80s and 90s. You just showed why you can't seem to find anything showing foreign cars potential. You were born in the 70s. You don't know where to look and you don't care. They are literally everwhere. Its hard not to come across 10 "1000 HP supra runs 9s" videos now a days. Anything with a 2jz, or a k or b series, 4g63, sr20, rb26 and many more can run 10 or 9s. I've seen 8 second runs with several different Japanese engines. I've seen 7s too. Every car that's not American isn't a ricer. When I was 17 about a decade ago I had the same sentiment. Only muscle. HP is king. Foreign cars are lame. No replacement blah blah. Then I opened my eyes and started paying attention to the world around me. A 3.0 inline 6 can make 1000 hp easier than some v8s. A 4 cylinder can runs 10s easy. I have no doubt you've been around cars longer than me. Than I've been alive probably. That just means your set deeper into your biases. American v8s are far from being the only fast cars at tracks. There are Japanese cars destroying American cars all over the world and Americans getting butthurt over it. Just like there are hilarious ricer videos where the guy in a cavalier and a muffler talks about how many turbos he has. I understand you don't think they exist cause they aren't all at your local track but remember. The auto world isn't localised around you. An actual search would show you everything I've been taking about. Here you go. It took me 5 minutes max. 6 second 4 cylinder datsun 510. Displacement is overrated. And a 5 second 2JZ Edited by Gonzo the Eternal (06/28/18 09:42 AM)
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Stranger Registered: 04/02/18 Posts: 374 |
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I know there are fast foreign cars. I keep up with what's going on in the auto world. Like I stated before I respect all fast cars. It's just a lot of people think that the Japenese cars are the shit especially since Fast and Furious. It's like what my boss said. 10 seconds like the foreign cars. Shit American cars have been running 10's and faster since the 50's if not earlier. I can show videos of Hemis running 4's. Top fuel dragsters. They only last 1 pass. The more displacement the cheaper it is to make power. American cars are proven for a long time.
Here are some cool facts about top fuel dragsters. It takes 900 hp to run their superchargers. The headers stick straight up. The exhaust produces 1,100 pounds of down force. They burn 14 gallons of nitro methane in 1 pass. 0 to 330 in 4.5 seconds or faster. I would love to drive 1 once. Imagine the g forces. I just waxed my car today. Check out the shine. The bird on the sail panel. Now there is one from every view. I love black but it is so hard to keep looking good. Every speck of dirt and water spot stands out.
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Stranger Registered: 04/02/18 Posts: 374 |
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wolfiewolfie I just checked out your vid. You have some skill. I love going sideways around turns. You get the leak fixed?
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Stranger Registered: 04/02/18 Posts: 374 |
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Damn it's hot. 96 and humid. Heat index 105+. Tomorrow hotter. Glad my AC works.
I just got done watching Buick, Pontiac, Olds muscle cars. Got it from Netflix. That's right you rice eating and euro trash f***s. Real cars. 4.0 sounds like a good lawnmower engine. My go cart has a 454. I seen some thing a while ago guys racing riding lawnmowers. Redneck stuff. Hilarious. The guy from my classic car was the host. The old dude with the big curled mustache. A guy I used to work with his Chevelle was on that show. There was a 69 GTO Ram V Judge. Rated at 375 hp. He said they dyno from 500 to 525 hp. All those cars in 1970 were rated at 425 hp. They were underrated for insurance reasons. After 1970 they pretty much sucked. Whoever said they would like an El Camino. There was a 71 GMC something with an s. Just like the El Camino. I didn't even know they had those. It was the first year for them. 454 pretty sweet. Holden GM's Australian division made a El Camino like vehicle around 2008. Same engine as the G8 I think. I was on a forum today. The record for the fastest LT1 fbody bolt ons with drag radials is 12.08. That is pretty good. I think I would run a 13.5 at least with the 275's. When it's warm they hook good with just a little wheel spin. When it's under 50 they spin like crazy. I had them spinning till 50 when I had to let off otherwise I would have been off the road. It's crazy how temperature makes that much difference. Plus you are making more power when it's colder. So I posted how I messed up my tail light. Got a used 1 for 125 shipped. They don't make them new but you can get all the other lights for it new. so the one I got was tinted factory. I think they came on the Firehawk's. Not sure. So I bought some vinyl tint. Didn't like it. Got some spray peel off tint. Looked alright but still didn't match. Got another tail light for 180 shipped. 300 for a messing up my tail light. Any one want to buy a firebird tail light? It's history. You can hang it on your wall. Maybe I will put it on Craigslist. In 20 years maybe it will be worth a 1000. So a couple months after I got my car the oxygen sensor went bad. I put a Bosch one in. 1 year 1 month later it goes bad again. 1 month out of warranty. They recommend replacing them every 60,000 miles. So I did some searching and some guy said Shell and Chevron gas is bad for oxygen sensors because of all the extra additives they put in. I used Shell because I had a card where I get 5 cents off a gallon. I stopped using Shell. I get slow response o2 sensor codes sometimes because of the long tube headers. No big deal just clear it. Since I stopped using Shell I hardly ever get the codes anymore and I have noticed I get way better fuel millage. Now I can beat on it a little more.
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Space Travellin Registered: 02/13/00 Posts: 66,015 Loc: 9th Dimension |
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That's odd... never heard that before.. maybe it's just older o2 sensors? I've used Shell and Chevron exclusively for the past ~10 years or so and my last 3 or 4 cars, because they are constantly rated as the best of the top tier fuel.. but haven't had any o2 sensors go bad or anything, all modern cars though. That's the Trans am you're talking about yeah?
Man, I'm loving this heat (haha). Mainly because of my water/meth kit, it's glorious. Sitting at a red light, watching my Intake Air Temps on the P3 gauge.. sitting at around 105F Light goes green.. launch... WOT... meth kicks on and watch the IATs plummet from 105F - 75 or 80F in a matter of seconds. Engine definitely seems to appreciate the cooler temps as well as the additional fuel. Water/Meth has the added bonus of helping keeping the engine internals clean and preventing knock and detonation. It's another complicated system that could go wrong and adds another maintenance point, definitely not for everyone.. but I'm loving it. My next upgrade is going to be a multi-port injection kit and upgraded LPFP. That will give me 4 more injectors, spraying fuel on the backs of the valves (currently ONLY direct injection), so will give some extra HP and more fueling capabilities for pushing higher HP numbers AND carbon cleaning power. After that I'm most likely going to have the head ported/polished and upgraded valves and springs, before I get some serious valve float and throw some valves... need it with the power I'm pushing, the stock head wasn't designed with this much power in mind. Have almost doubled the HP the car came with stock.
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In Sterquiliniis Invenitur Registered: 05/09/18 Posts: 480 Last seen: 4 years, 4 months |
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I was waiting for the top fuel dragsters to make their way here haha yes I'm very familiar with those and how insanely powerful and fast they are. Watch Hoonigan visit a funny car championship shop and listen to Leah Pritchett describe the HEMIS they use. Nothing..NOTHING comes close to that. As a huge foreign car fan I will say that will dead ass confidence. 11,000 hp. Crank lasts 5 passes max. Often just 1. Main Bearings are considered "consumables" which is hilarious. Nothing outsidethe states touches that.
I totally concede to your point. As a general rule of thumb Japanese cars have the worst fans. After fast and furious it got bad. But like I said. I'm a HUGE muscle car guy. But over the years doing the same with less cylinders and bulletproof reliability (not saying there aren't bulletproof American v8s) kind of stole me away from the big heavy and alot of times wasteful American cars. Granted my dream JDM car will never compare to a GTO Judge as far as sound and just pure badassness. Along with several v8s American beauties. But if I were to have only one car it would definitely be a 72 celica with a 2jz. If I could have 2 then the second would be something American. Or at least something American inside something Japanese British or german. After all one of the most legendary men made one of most legendary cars by following that formula. Carroll shoved a Ford v8 into a little ACE and boom....427 AC Cobra. Fuck anything Japanese or German or Martian if there's an AC Cobra or a Shelby Daytona in front of me. The taillight on my daily went out. I'm down to buy your firebird taillight for my accord
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Stranger Registered: 05/05/17 Posts: 892 Last seen: 2 days, 34 minutes |
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This is the first moment I've ever hated the fact I have a ohc motor....just thinking about replacing my head gasket makes my head hurt.
side note my a/c also stopped working and it's 90+ lol -------------------- Had I the heavens' embroidered cloths, Enwrought with golden and silver light, The blue and the dim and the dark cloths Of night and light and the half light, I would spread the cloths under your feet: But I, being poor, have only my dreams; I have spread my dreams under your feet; Tread softly because you tread on my dreams. Edited by HappyHigh (07/04/18 09:16 AM)
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Keep the car Toyota reliable and slap some finish on it. That's a very smart move and a much smarter choice of ownership if you ask me.
it's showing. 