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The Ecstatic
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Re: Court filing shows Mueller suspects collusion between Trump campaign and Russia [Re: XUL]
#25115199 - 04/05/18 06:45 AM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Investigations take time, and Mueller didnt create this "story." Just the media desperate to keep the Russia narrative in the spotlight.
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XUL
OTD Janitor



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Re: Court filing shows Mueller suspects collusion between Trump campaign and Russia [Re: The Ecstatic]
#25115209 - 04/05/18 06:51 AM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said: Investigations take time, and Mueller didnt create this "story." Just the media desperate to keep the Russia narrative in the spotlight.
Do you think Trump will be charged with obstruction of justice or collusion?
What if he isn't? Will you still believe he colluded?
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TRUMP 2020
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The Ecstatic
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Re: Court filing shows Mueller suspects collusion between Trump campaign and Russia [Re: XUL]
#25115217 - 04/05/18 06:54 AM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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I dont think he'll be charged. He'll survive his term. I believe he "colluded" to some extent, but so did a bunch of other presidents to get elected. Its ultimately not that important, its just a convenient excuse for Democrats to say "see?! We didnt do anything wrong! All our ideas are actually good! Its just that pesky Russia stole it from us."
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musiclover420
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Re: Court filing shows Mueller suspects collusion between Trump campaign and Russia [Re: The Ecstatic]
#25115301 - 04/05/18 07:39 AM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
XUL said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: Investigations take time, and Mueller didnt create this "story." Just the media desperate to keep the Russia narrative in the spotlight.
Do you think Trump will be charged with obstruction of justice or collusion?
What if he isn't? Will you still believe he colluded?
Mueller is putting together a report in the obstruction case
Quote:
The most important revelation in a Washington Post report out Tuesday night is not that the special counsel Robert Mueller told President Donald Trump's lawyers he isn't a criminal target of the Russia investigation.
Rather, it's that Mueller is preparing a report about Trump's actions in office and potential obstruction of justice.
So the first seems pretty likely, though he probably won't be charged initially until the investigation becomes closer to complete.
If the investigation finishes unimpeded without charging trump with collusion I could accept that, but it seems pretty clear him and people around him are being used as puppets by foreign powers. Whether or not they knowingly cooperated is debatable, but personally the kompromaut theories seem very likely.
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The Ecstatic said: I dont think he'll be charged. He'll survive his term. I believe he "colluded" to some extent, but so did a bunch of other presidents to get elected. Its ultimately not that important,
Care to provide some examples of other presidents that colluded with foreign powers to undermine our democracy?
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its just a convenient excuse for Democrats to say "see?! We didnt do anything wrong! All our ideas are actually good! Its just that pesky Russia stole it from us."
Care to provide some examples of that? Because this thread seems like a perfect example of the GOP doing exactly that with the "see trump wasn't the target of the investigation as of a month ago, he must be innocent!"
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
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The Ecstatic
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Re: Court filing shows Mueller suspects collusion between Trump campaign and Russia [Re: musiclover420] 1
#25115308 - 04/05/18 07:44 AM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Nixon had Kissinger sabotage peace talks with NVA under LBJ.
Reagan did the same with Iran under Carter.
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The Ecstatic
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Re: Court filing shows Mueller suspects collusion between Trump campaign and Russia [Re: The Ecstatic]
#25115311 - 04/05/18 07:45 AM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Also, yes, the GOP and Democrats are both desperately trying to maintain their innocence. Both are guilty.
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musiclover420
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Re: Court filing shows Mueller suspects collusion between Trump campaign and Russia [Re: The Ecstatic]
#25115331 - 04/05/18 07:58 AM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said: Nixon had Kissinger sabotage peace talks with NVA under LBJ.
Reagan did the same with Iran under Carter.
I don't think those are really comparable but I am no history professor 
Also note Nixon and Reagan were both Republicans as well The GOP is still using the same shady tactics decades later, except with even more projection + propaganda.
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: Also, yes, the GOP and Democrats are both desperately trying to maintain their innocence. Both are guilty.
Some democrats are certainly guilty of some things but this both sides are the same BS is straight up propaganda.
Democrats actually fight internally a lot, the GOP has become a fascist cult...
Also if you haven't been paying attention Sinclair Broadcasting has been buying out local news stations and forcing them to air pro GOP propaganda/scripts:
Why Sinclair's 'false news' script sounds so familiar
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
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starfire_xes
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Re: Court filing shows Mueller suspects collusion between Trump campaign and Russia [Re: The Ecstatic] 1
#25115594 - 04/05/18 10:26 AM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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TELL WAS IS COLLUSION. STATE THAT AS A CRIME. firing Comey is not a crime and it can not be obstruction.
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The Ecstatic
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Re: Court filing shows Mueller suspects collusion between Trump campaign and Russia [Re: musiclover420]
#25115610 - 04/05/18 10:37 AM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
I don't think those are really comparable but I am no history professor 
Yes they are.
Quote:
Also note Nixon and Reagan were both Republicans as well The GOP is still using the same shady tactics decades later, except with even more projection + propaganda.
So now you pivot to "ok it has happened but its just the GOP."
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Some democrats are certainly guilty of some things but this both sides are the same BS is straight up propaganda.
The Democrats and Republicans are two sides of the same imperialist, neoliberal capitalist coin. Is the GOP typically more shady? Yes.
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Democrats actually fight internally a lot, the GOP has become a fascist cult...
Yes, the actual left is finally mobilizing within the Dems. And the GOP is being exposed as thinly veiled racists.
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Also if you haven't been paying attention Sinclair Broadcasting has been buying out local news stations and forcing them to air pro GOP propaganda/scripts
Yep, but lets not pretend corporate media hasnt been churning out pro-state propaganda for over a century.
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musiclover420
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Re: Court filing shows Mueller suspects collusion between Trump campaign and Russia [Re: The Ecstatic]
#25116311 - 04/05/18 04:33 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
I don't think those are really comparable but I am no history professor 
Yes they are.
Alright please explain how sabotaging peace talks is comparable to using a hostile foreign government to interfere in a presidential election in your favor...
Quote:
So now you pivot to "ok it has happened but its just the GOP."
Actually I think you are the one who pivoted from:
Quote:
Also, yes, the GOP and Democrats are both desperately trying to maintain their innocence. Both are guilty.
If both are equally guilty how come the only examples you could provide are from other Republicans? 
Quote:
The Democrats and Republicans are two sides of the same imperialist, neoliberal capitalist coin. Is the GOP typically more shady? Yes.
I agree in part, I've long thought they are playing both sides. But it's become pretty damn clear the GOP is a collective with a strong cult mentality that I've yet to see in Democrats to nearly the same extent.
Plenty of Democrats hated Hillary and still do, and sure some R's hate Trump but most seem to be shutting up and falling in line When they grow some balls and stand up to him maybe I will give them the benefit of the doubt...
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Yes, the actual left is finally mobilizing within the Dems. And the GOP is being exposed as thinly veiled racists.
The GOP have been exposing themselves And it's been pretty obvious for decades, except now they are not even bothering to hide it with dog whistles.
Quote:
Yep, but lets not pretend corporate media hasnt been churning out pro-state propaganda for over a century.
Yes but Sinclair is one of the biggest media companies in the country. Ajit Pai is currently working on making a merger legal for them to take control of 70%+ of the local broadcasting in the country.... Think about that, 1 single company will control the news for 7/10 households. There is certainly bias and both sides but I've seen nothing remotely close to that level of "fake news" and propaganda from Democrats....
Also I find it funny Sinclair has been pushing pro Trump tariff scripts among others, seems like they are desperately trying to make people think that was a good idea... Even though pretty much everyone paying attention can tell it was a horrible idea with very little thought put into it (just like most of Trumps ideas it seems)
China announces new tariffs on 106 US products, including soy, cars and chemicals
Trump Wanted to Start a Trade War Because He Was Mad Jared Kushner Couldn't Get a Security Clearance
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/04/05/they-voted-for-president-trump-now-soybean-farmers-could-get-slammed-by-the-trade-war-he-started/?utm_term=.26061eb7e2f7
Hell from Trump himself:
Trump: 'We are not in a trade war with China, that war was lost many years ago'
Quote:
President Trump tweets that the U.S. is "not in a trade war with China."
Trump says the U.S. cannot let its trade deficit with China continue.
Trump's tweet comes hours after China launched plans for new tariffs on 106 U.S. products.
Guess we are going to lose it once again.
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
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Mercurious
Neither here, nor there...

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Re: Court filing shows Mueller suspects collusion between Trump campaign and Russia [Re: musiclover420] 2
#25116379 - 04/05/18 05:00 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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I love everyone who complains that this investigation is taking too long. This thing is going light-speed, comparatively speaking. Goes to show how little some people know about federal investigations. You guys remember Jared the Subway guy? The FBI knew he was molesting kids for FOUR AND A HALF YEARS and still kept the investigation going to build their case.
This thing will be a two-year minimum, guaranteed. Absolutely guaranteed. The wheels of justice turn slow, folks. Strap in and get comfortable.
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musiclover420
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Re: Court filing shows Mueller suspects collusion between Trump campaign and Russia [Re: Mercurious]
#25116440 - 04/05/18 05:27 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mercurious said: I love everyone who complains that this investigation is taking too long. This thing is going light-speed, comparatively speaking. Goes to show how little some people know about federal investigations. You guys remember Jared the Subway guy? The FBI knew he was molesting kids for FOUR AND A HALF YEARS and still kept the investigation going to build their case.
This thing will be a two-year minimum, guaranteed. Absolutely guaranteed. The wheels of justice turn slow, folks. Strap in and get comfortable.
I feel like this investigation will be in it for the long haul, it seems to just keep turning up more shady dealings. Even if/when Trump is impeached or resigns they will probably still have more work to do.
Also I doubt all the details will be made public, hopefully we get to see the big picture eventually at least but it wouldn't be surprising if some details don't come out for decades if ever.
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
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Patlal
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Re: Court filing shows Mueller suspects collusion between Trump campaign and Russia [Re: musiclover420] 1
#25116639 - 04/05/18 06:39 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Trump will have done his 8 years before this investigation is over...
If nothing major came up after a year of interrogating everyone, then it's over. Trump has many enemies and yet, nobody the FBI investigated could bring solid evidence. The FBI is an extremely competent branch of government. It is recognize as one of the best in the world. I am 110% sure they would have found actual evidence by now if there were some...
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LRG
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Re: Court filing shows Mueller suspects collusion between Trump campaign and Russia [Re: Patlal] 1
#25116659 - 04/05/18 06:47 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Patlal said:
If nothing major came up after a year of interrogating everyone, then it's over. Trump has many enemies and yet, nobody the FBI investigated could bring solid evidence. The FBI is an extremely competent branch of government. It is recognize as one of the best in the world.
-------------------- "I found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay… small acts of kindness and love.” - Gandalf The Grey. "It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle "I like to think of Jesus like with giant eagle's wings, and singin' lead vocals for Lynyrd Skynyrd with like an angel band and I'm in the front row and I'm HAMMERED DRUNK!" - Cal Naughton Jr. AKA The Magic Man. Abracadabra homes! "Each tear is a drop of poison released." - Anonymous "Could it be you're afraid of what your friends might say if they knew you believe in God above? They should realize before they criticize that God is the only way to Love."
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musiclover420
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Re: Court filing shows Mueller suspects collusion between Trump campaign and Russia [Re: Patlal]
#25116669 - 04/05/18 06:51 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Patlal said: Trump will have done his 8 years before this investigation is over...
You really think he will be re elected? His approval ratings have been around 30-40% for awhile now. Outside of even more influence from Russians I can't see him winning again.
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If nothing major came up after a year of interrogating everyone, then it's over.
According to who? You realize investigations like this deal with a lot of classified information right? We only know what has been leaked to the public essentially.
Also I think a lot of major stuff has come up, it's just been hard to stay on top of it all with the never ending scandals.
How many people in Trump's administration have been indicted? At least a handful last a checked, most of which have flipped and are cooperating with the investigation...
Quote:
Trump has many enemies and yet, nobody the FBI investigated could bring solid evidence. The FBI is an extremely competent branch of government. It is recognize as one of the best in the world. I am 110% sure they would have found actual evidence by now if there were some...
So do you have inside knowledge into the investigation or what?
You realize there is a thing called sealed indictments right? We tend to only hear about some of these developments weeks if not months after they happen.
Also there is a certain thing called tact. This investigation goes beyond just Trump and Co, if they jump the gun and charge everyone they can ASAP they will miss out in the long run. It's better to take it slow and flip as many people as possible, so you can find out as much info as possible. This isn't just about Americans and Russians either, there's evidence at least a few other countries have been working on manipulating Trump or people around Trump. So they have a lot more to look into, and have already turned up a lot of shady stuff.
Anyways, you know what they say about making assumptions
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Court filing shows Mueller suspects collusion between Trump campaign and Russia [Re: Mercurious]
#25116766 - 04/05/18 07:30 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mercurious said: I love everyone who complains that this investigation is taking too long. This thing is going light-speed, comparatively speaking. Goes to show how little some people know about federal investigations.
This thing will be a two-year minimum, guaranteed. Absolutely guaranteed.
This thing won't finish until Trump is out of office. At which point it will be forgotten, guaranteed. Absolutely guaranteed.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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The Ecstatic
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Re: Court filing shows Mueller suspects collusion between Trump campaign and Russia [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] 1
#25116886 - 04/05/18 08:17 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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^ agreed.
And no Americans actually give a fuck. None of this matters to the material conditions of the average American.
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musiclover420
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Re: Court filing shows Mueller suspects collusion between Trump campaign and Russia [Re: The Ecstatic]
#25116917 - 04/05/18 08:30 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
Mercurious said: I love everyone who complains that this investigation is taking too long. This thing is going light-speed, comparatively speaking. Goes to show how little some people know about federal investigations.
This thing will be a two-year minimum, guaranteed. Absolutely guaranteed.
This thing won't finish until Trump is out of office. At which point it will be forgotten, guaranteed. Absolutely guaranteed.
People probably said the same thing about Bush 
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: ^ agreed.
And no Americans actually give a fuck. None of this matters to the material conditions of the average American.
That is a ridiculous generalization. Plenty of people do give a fuck, hence the ongoing blue wave of states voting out Republicans 
Elections have real impacts, and many of Trumps stupid decisions will be negatively impacting people for years. His cult may never turn on him but most people already have.
Thanks to Trumps trade war/tariffs other countries are already placing retaliatory tariffs on products from key pro GOP states, people will definitely notice the impact...
I agree most people are complacent, but a big part of that is society breeding complacency into us with the "both sides are the same" and "voting doesn't matter" rhetoric... No, it only doesn't matter if we let it. If we fight gerrymandering and propaganda and don't just accept things as they are it can lead to real change. This kind of stuff should matter to all of us...
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
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The Ecstatic
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Re: Court filing shows Mueller suspects collusion between Trump campaign and Russia [Re: musiclover420] 1
#25116989 - 04/05/18 09:06 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Alright please explain how sabotaging peace talks is comparable to using a hostile foreign government to interfere in a presidential election in your favor...
Uhhh....because we were at war with the other countries and we arent at war with Russia.
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If both are equally guilty how come the only examples you could provide are from other Republicans? 
Uhh because Dems are guilty in other ways.
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I agree in part, I've long thought they are playing both sides. But it's become pretty damn clear the GOP is a collective with a strong cult mentality that I've yet to see in Democrats to nearly the same extent.
Plenty of Democrats hated Hillary and still do, and sure some R's hate Trump but most seem to be shutting up and falling in line When they grow some balls and stand up to him maybe I will give them the benefit of the doubt...
The Dems are falling in line with Trump too. Abandoning DREAMers and passing wall st deregulation. Corporate Dems (aka most dems) are just as bad as the GOP. They dont get a pass for hating gays and blacks slightly less.
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musiclover420
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Re: Court filing shows Mueller suspects collusion between Trump campaign and Russia [Re: The Ecstatic]
#25116991 - 04/05/18 09:09 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Uhh because Dems are guilty in other ways.
Whataboutism at it's best
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
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