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COIR vs VERM on BRF???
    #25108490 -

A question I have been asking myself for a while now. Seeing many people post, spawning BRF to bulk using coir, or cvg as a substrate. Has anyone here attempted to roll in coir after dunking cakes and putting in FC. instead of verm?

Edited by Mush Hunter (04/02/18 12:34 PM)

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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: Mush Hunter]
    #25108521 -

I've never done this, but I don't know why it shouldn't work,


--------------------
Since english is not my native language, please excuse any misunderstandings or stange verbalizations :wink:

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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: Buho colorido]
    #25108534 -

i think the coir would colonize and loose it's water holding property. it's too nutritious and that's why it's not used as a casing layer.


--------------------
Masters and slaves hunting clones        How not to isolate (it worked, but)


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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #25108537 -

verum subsequentis said:
i think the coir would colonize and loose it's water holding property. it's too nutritious and that's why it's not used as a casing layer.


:whathesaid: Totally agree! The myc would devour it!


--------------------
Helpful Threads

The Shroomery Store

Tormato's Q&A Thread Post Questions Here or PM me!

"Lately it occurs to me what a long, strange trip it's been." ~ Grateful Dead

Before you start...Do you have a Pressure Cooker and a Dehydrator? I highly recommend getting both!

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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: Tormato]
    #25108551 -

I've seen verm being colonized as well when rh is too high.


--------------------
Since english is not my native language, please excuse any misunderstandings or stange verbalizations :wink:

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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: Buho colorido]
    #25108556 -

sure, verm can colonize but coir will colonize.


--------------------
Masters and slaves hunting clones        How not to isolate (it worked, but)


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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #25108557 -

verum subsequentis said:
i think the coir would colonize and loose it's water holding property. it's too nutritious and that's why it's not used as a casing layer.


Oh, but we do use coir as casing layer. At least I do. Either as pseudo casing at spawn or late case


--------------------
Since english is not my native language, please excuse any misunderstandings or stange verbalizations :wink:

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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #25108562 -

Buho colorido said:
sure, verm can colonize but coir will colonize.


:whathesaid: Yes verm can but not nearly as fast as coir will :wink:


--------------------
Helpful Threads

The Shroomery Store

Tormato's Q&A Thread Post Questions Here or PM me!

"Lately it occurs to me what a long, strange trip it's been." ~ Grateful Dead

Before you start...Do you have a Pressure Cooker and a Dehydrator? I highly recommend getting both!

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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: Tormato]
    #25108566 -

Is this why people crate the BRF and then shoebox it? Just curious as to why grating the cake and putting it to a coir substrate is a thing? Your cake is all ready to fruit, yet you're going to subject it to a situation where it may possibly contaminate and not really give you more bang for the buck that the cakes will already give you in a SGFC. From everything I have read here the avg. harvest of a four cake shoebox is the same as the avg. I have gotten putting them straight to FC. Plus you lose time as you wait for the substrate to colonize before initating fruiting conditions.

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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: Mush Hunter] * 1
    #25108580 -

Mush Hunter said:
Is this why people crate the BRF and then shoebox it? Just curious as to why grating the cake and putting it to a coir substrate is a thing? Your cake is all ready to fruit, yet you're going to subject it to a situation where it may possibly contaminate and not really give you more bang for the buck that the cakes will already give you in a SGFC. From everything I have read here the avg. harvest of a four cake shoebox is the same as the avg. I have gotten putting them straight to FC. Plus you lose time as you wait for the substrate to colonize before initating fruiting conditions.


You get more surface area to fruit grating cakes to coir


--------------------
Helpful Threads

The Shroomery Store

Tormato's Q&A Thread Post Questions Here or PM me!

"Lately it occurs to me what a long, strange trip it's been." ~ Grateful Dead

Before you start...Do you have a Pressure Cooker and a Dehydrator? I highly recommend getting both!

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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: Mush Hunter] * 1
    #25108585 -

Spawning to bulk, even with pf cakes, can significantly increase your yield IME.

You gotta add just enough water to your bulk substrate to hydrate it, so that you don't leech out any of the nutrients.

Coir verm gypsum(prepped well) is a somewhat nutritious sub.


--------------------
Super clean spore printing method: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5276177


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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: Tormato] * 1
    #25108586 -

:whathesaid:
Plus the coir holds water, and as you know shrooms~90% water, gives you more weight


--------------------
Since english is not my native language, please excuse any misunderstandings or stange verbalizations :wink:

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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: Tormato]
    #25108590 -

Tormato said:
You get more surface area to fruit grating cakes to coir


But if the end result is the same then how is the larger surface area beneficial?

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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: Mush Hunter] * 1
    #25108596 -

Mush Hunter said:
Tormato said:
You get more surface area to fruit grating cakes to coir


But if the end result is the same then how is the larger surface area beneficial?


Anytime I have ever grated cakes to coir the output was greater! That's really why I only do bulk now :shrug:


--------------------
Helpful Threads

The Shroomery Store

Tormato's Q&A Thread Post Questions Here or PM me!

"Lately it occurs to me what a long, strange trip it's been." ~ Grateful Dead

Before you start...Do you have a Pressure Cooker and a Dehydrator? I highly recommend getting both!

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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: Tormato]
    #25108605 -

And it's easier to keep conditions right IME


--------------------
Since english is not my native language, please excuse any misunderstandings or stange verbalizations :wink:

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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: impatientguy]
    #25108606 -

impatientguy said:
Spawning to bulk, even with pf cakes, can significantly increase your yield IME.

You gotta add just enough water to your bulk substrate to hydrate it, so that you don't leech out any of the nutrients.

Coir verm gypsum(prepped well) is a somewhat nutritious sub.


Buho colorido said:
:whathesaid:
Plus the coir holds water, and as you know shrooms~90% water, gives you more weight


Thanks guys! That makes sense. If you prep your substrate properly and dial in the FC I can see it increasing weight. Just the some of the post I have seen here with weights seem very comparable IMO. Will have to try this some day for myself I suppose to have a visual experience.(No pun intended :lol: )

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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: Mush Hunter] * 1
    #25108607 -

Not same, I get bit more on average so far in a bulked out grow vs cakes. I'm also finding unmodded tubs/shoeboxes are easier to stack, easier to care for than a sgfc, and they take way less real estate in the grow area.


--------------------
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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: Tormato]
    #25108611 -

Tormato said:
Mush Hunter said:
Tormato said:
You get more surface area to fruit grating cakes to coir


But if the end result is the same then how is the larger surface area beneficial?


Anytime I have ever grated cakes to coir the output was greater! That's really why I only do bulk now :shrug:



Soon I will attempt a bulk! Just haven't decided if it will be with BRF to bulk or if I will just go straight to WBS or Oats.

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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: LtLurker]
    #25108613 -

That third pic in with the cakes is impressive!!  Big ole shrooms, on a little cake haha.


I would do oats, or milk.  Milo is my favorite grain.    But I've never used rye so it could be better, but I doubt it lol

My phone made milo into milk. Don't use milk for bulk  hahaha


--------------------
Super clean spore printing method: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5276177


Edited by impatientguy (04/02/18 01:30 PM)

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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: Buho colorido]
    #25108615 -

Buho colorido said:
verum subsequentis said:
i think the coir would colonize and loose it's water holding property. it's too nutritious and that's why it's not used as a casing layer.


Oh, but we do use coir as casing layer. At least I do. Either as pseudo casing at spawn or late case


That's not a true casing layer. That's just a top layer of substrate. Some people just like to cover up their grains.


--------------------
First time growing cakes? DON'T make a Shotgun Fruiting Chamber

The Shmuvbox. - The Old TC's Like it :shrug:

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No Pouring. No Syringes. No Cutting. No flaming. No Contamination. No Bullshit.

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EZEKIEL 23:20

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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: Mush Hunter]
    #25108635 -

Mush Hunter said:
Tormato said:
Mush Hunter said:
Tormato said:
You get more surface area to fruit grating cakes to coir


But if the end result is the same then how is the larger surface area beneficial?


Anytime I have ever grated cakes to coir the output was greater! That's really why I only do bulk now :shrug:



Soon I will attempt a bulk! Just haven't decided if it will be with BRF to bulk or if I will just go straight to WBS or Oats.


I started with Rye Berries then moved to WBS....now I do Oats majority of the time :rockon:


--------------------
Helpful Threads

The Shroomery Store

Tormato's Q&A Thread Post Questions Here or PM me!

"Lately it occurs to me what a long, strange trip it's been." ~ Grateful Dead

Before you start...Do you have a Pressure Cooker and a Dehydrator? I highly recommend getting both!

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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: Tormato]
    #25108640 -

Tormato said:
I started with Rye Berries then moved to WBS....now I do Oats majority of the time :rockon:


Ya, I have been checking out hauled oats myself and like what I've been seeing! :takingnotes:

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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: Mush Hunter]
    #25108649 -

Mush Hunter said:
Tormato said:
I started with Rye Berries then moved to WBS....now I do Oats majority of the time :rockon:


Ya, I have been checking out hauled oats myself and like what I've been seeing! :takingnotes:


BAM! -------> BOD's Easy AF Oat Prep TEK


--------------------
Helpful Threads

The Shroomery Store

Tormato's Q&A Thread Post Questions Here or PM me!

"Lately it occurs to me what a long, strange trip it's been." ~ Grateful Dead

Before you start...Do you have a Pressure Cooker and a Dehydrator? I highly recommend getting both!

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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: Tormato]
    #25108718 -

i think you mean whole oats.:shrug:


--------------------
Masters and slaves hunting clones        How not to isolate (it worked, but)


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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: verum subsequentis] * 1
    #25108721 -

verum subsequentis said:
i think you mean whole oats.:shrug:


I thought he meant hulled :lol:


--------------------
Helpful Threads

The Shroomery Store

Tormato's Q&A Thread Post Questions Here or PM me!

"Lately it occurs to me what a long, strange trip it's been." ~ Grateful Dead

Before you start...Do you have a Pressure Cooker and a Dehydrator? I highly recommend getting both!

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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: Tormato] * 1
    #25108725 -

maybe, i've never used them. whole oats for me (and wbs, rye, millet...) but mainly oats


--------------------
Masters and slaves hunting clones        How not to isolate (it worked, but)


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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: verum subsequentis] * 1
    #25108733 -

verum subsequentis said:
maybe, i've never used them. whole oats for me (and wbs, rye, millet...) but mainly oats


Hulled like they still have the hulls on them :lol:


--------------------
Helpful Threads

The Shroomery Store

Tormato's Q&A Thread Post Questions Here or PM me!

"Lately it occurs to me what a long, strange trip it's been." ~ Grateful Dead

Before you start...Do you have a Pressure Cooker and a Dehydrator? I highly recommend getting both!

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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #25108734 -

I really like Milo  great grain to work with as well:thumbup:


--------------------
Super clean spore printing method: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5276177


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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: impatientguy]
    #25108800 -

Another issue I see is the potential stick factor of coir vs verm


--------------------
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The Chinese word for nature is zìrán and it means that of which is of itself.

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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: Tormato]
    #25108807 -

Tormato said:
verum subsequentis said:
i think the coir would colonize and loose it's water holding property. it's too nutritious and that's why it's not used as a casing layer.


:whathesaid: Totally agree! The myc would devour it!


People have done it and that's exactly what happened.  You would essentially have to case/roll them twice, first with coir, then with verm.  It's just adding vectors and if I recall properly from back in the day, people had better results with regular old cakes dunk n' rolled with a dash of gypsum.  I tried reinventing the wheel a lot myself when I was new, lol.

Experimenting is fun anyways, but yea, it has been done already.

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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: plurfekt]
    #25108816 -

Hulled oats is what I meant and Bod's tech is what I have been looking at doing :thumbup:

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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: Mush Hunter] * 1
    #25108825 -

Mush Hunter said:
Hulled oats is what I meant and Bod's tech is what I have been looking at doing :thumbup:


Ah, well good luck man :mushroom2:

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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: Mush Hunter] * 1
    #25108827 -

Mush Hunter said:
Hulled oats is what I meant and Bod's tech is what I have been looking at doing :thumbup:


:rockon:


--------------------
Helpful Threads

The Shroomery Store

Tormato's Q&A Thread Post Questions Here or PM me!

"Lately it occurs to me what a long, strange trip it's been." ~ Grateful Dead

Before you start...Do you have a Pressure Cooker and a Dehydrator? I highly recommend getting both!

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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: Tormato]
    #25108848 -

The question is... When I finally decide, would it be better off to inoculate some grains first or would it be better to do some agar with an MS syringe? I was figuring if I was to go the jar way I could transfer grain mycelium to agar and do a tub with the rest of the spawn or MS to agar and isolate first and transfer agar to grain. Which would be a better plan of attack?

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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: Mush Hunter]
    #25108851 -

Mush Hunter said:
The question is... When I finally decide, would it be better off inoculation some grains first or would it be better to do some agar with an MS syringe? I was figuring if I was to go the jar way I could transfer grain mycelium to agar and do a tub with the rest of the spawn or MS to agar and isolate first and transfer agar to grain. Which would be a better plan of attack?


Agar is always best when dealing with MS syringes


--------------------
Helpful Threads

The Shroomery Store

Tormato's Q&A Thread Post Questions Here or PM me!

"Lately it occurs to me what a long, strange trip it's been." ~ Grateful Dead

Before you start...Do you have a Pressure Cooker and a Dehydrator? I highly recommend getting both!

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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: Tormato]
    #25108853 -

I thoughts so but confirmation on the subject is always nice. :cheers:

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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: Mush Hunter] * 1
    #25108859 -

Mush Hunter said:
I thoughts so but confirmation on the subject is always nice. :cheers:


Agar is so much fun! You’ll get addicted quick! :super:


--------------------
Helpful Threads

The Shroomery Store

Tormato's Q&A Thread Post Questions Here or PM me!

"Lately it occurs to me what a long, strange trip it's been." ~ Grateful Dead

Before you start...Do you have a Pressure Cooker and a Dehydrator? I highly recommend getting both!

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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: Tormato]
    #25108883 -

Tormato said:
Agar is so much fun! You’ll get addicted quick! :super:


I can see that happening :grin:

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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: Mush Hunter] * 1
    #25109008 -

i'll second that. always take spores to agar. and it is quite fun.


--------------------
Masters and slaves hunting clones        How not to isolate (it worked, but)


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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: verum subsequentis] * 1
    #25109010 -

I'm loading a bunch of syringes and agar into the pc as we speak actually.


--------------------
Masters and slaves hunting clones        How not to isolate (it worked, but)


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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #25109013 -

verum subsequentis said:
I'm loading a bunch of syringes and agar into the pc as we speak actually.


Let the fun begin! :rockon:


--------------------
Helpful Threads

The Shroomery Store

Tormato's Q&A Thread Post Questions Here or PM me!

"Lately it occurs to me what a long, strange trip it's been." ~ Grateful Dead

Before you start...Do you have a Pressure Cooker and a Dehydrator? I highly recommend getting both!

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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: Mush Hunter]
    #25109038 -

Mush Hunter said:
The question is... When I finally decide, would it be better off to inoculate some grains first or would it be better to do some agar with an MS syringe? I was figuring if I was to go the jar way I could transfer grain mycelium to agar and do a tub with the rest of the spawn or MS to agar and isolate first and transfer agar to grain. Which would be a better plan of attack?


Not necessarily advocating it, but all of the pics in my sig are MS syringe to grain spawned to bulk.


I would personally rather grow out some multi-spore genetics and then select a clone from that. Just so you know your working with a substrain that will fruit.

But that's just how I roll. Lol


--------------------
Super clean spore printing method: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5276177


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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: impatientguy]
    #25109083 -

i'll revise my statement. spore syringe to grain can obviously work and work wonderfully. agar is just a safer way to be in my opinion. i drip a drip onto agar and streak it with my loop. then make one or two transfer to ensure that it's clean and then go to grain. it's still ms and great for grabbing a clone or two.


--------------------
Masters and slaves hunting clones        How not to isolate (it worked, but)


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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #25109094 -

:heart::thumbup:


--------------------
Super clean spore printing method: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5276177


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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: impatientguy]
    #25109222 -

I have made entire cakes replacing the verm even for the dry layer, rolled in coir and cased and top fruited but verm does slightly better but was able to get stuntzii to pin on coir cakes


--------------------
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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: cronicr]
    #25109244 -

cronicr said:
I have made entire cakes replacing the verm even for the dry layer, rolled in coir and cased and top fruited but verm does slightly better but was able to get stuntzii to pin on coir cakes


Right on! Good to know!
:coolpost:


--------------------
Helpful Threads

The Shroomery Store

Tormato's Q&A Thread Post Questions Here or PM me!

"Lately it occurs to me what a long, strange trip it's been." ~ Grateful Dead

Before you start...Do you have a Pressure Cooker and a Dehydrator? I highly recommend getting both!

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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: Tormato]
    #25109256 -



--------------------
It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn
I'm tired do me a favor

I'M A MEMBER FIRST, TC WHEN NEEDED AND MOD WHEN I HAVE TO BE !!!

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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: cronicr]
    #25109268 -

Wow :takingnotes:


--------------------
Super clean spore printing method: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5276177


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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: impatientguy]
    #25109295 -

impatientguy said:
Wow :takingnotes:


:whathesaid:


--------------------
Helpful Threads

The Shroomery Store

Tormato's Q&A Thread Post Questions Here or PM me!

"Lately it occurs to me what a long, strange trip it's been." ~ Grateful Dead

Before you start...Do you have a Pressure Cooker and a Dehydrator? I highly recommend getting both!

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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: Tormato]
    #25109322 -

that's funny. i have a little coir cake experiment going on at the moment too. i had a bit of left over coir and not enough grain so i loaded up a jar with straight coir, pc'ed it with the grains and nocced it up with li.


--------------------
Masters and slaves hunting clones        How not to isolate (it worked, but)


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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #25109329 -

verum subsequentis said:
that's funny. i have a little coir cake experiment going on at the moment too. i had a bit of left over coir and not enough grain so i loaded up a jar with straight coir, pc'ed it with the grains and nocced it up with li.


Awesome! Keep us posted! I’m curious how this will turn out :thumbup:


--------------------
Helpful Threads

The Shroomery Store

Tormato's Q&A Thread Post Questions Here or PM me!

"Lately it occurs to me what a long, strange trip it's been." ~ Grateful Dead

Before you start...Do you have a Pressure Cooker and a Dehydrator? I highly recommend getting both!

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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: Mush Hunter]
    #25109616 -



Grain cake, i didnt roll tho i think rolling is dumb an outdated you wanna barey n press, i barey'd a cake for a minute before fruiting.


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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: impatientguy]
    #25110172 -

impatientguy said:
Mush Hunter said:
The question is... When I finally decide, would it be better off to inoculate some grains first or would it be better to do some agar with an MS syringe? I was figuring if I was to go the jar way I could transfer grain mycelium to agar and do a tub with the rest of the spawn or MS to agar and isolate first and transfer agar to grain. Which would be a better plan of attack?


Not necessarily advocating it, but all of the pics in my sig are MS syringe to grain spawned to bulk.


I would personally rather grow out some multi-spore genetics and then select a clone from that. Just so you know your working with a substrain that will fruit.

But that's just how I roll. Lol


I did it for 10 years

Now onto agar.  You can only MS spawn so many tubs before you're like

"WHY AM I STILL USING MS, WTF"

MS is a gamble in more than just whether or not they will fruit.  Yield, potency, consistency, etc.

When a tub under-performs or something, with MS it can be harder to tell if your successes or failures were a result of proper technique.  Simply because you have no baseline to compare it too, and never really will.

:mushroom2:

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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: plurfekt]
    #25110261 -

I agree with plurfekt. This is why I was thinking of spawning to grain first, to clone the nicest one and then go to agar to clean it up and isolate.

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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: Mush Hunter]
    #25110896 -

I have never seen ms not fruit.


--------------------
It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn
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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: cronicr]
    #25111082 -

:whathesaid:

I've always had pretty consistent yields off of MS.  It's the potency that seems vary a bit, but not by much.


--------------------
Super clean spore printing method: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5276177


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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: impatientguy]
    #25111135 -

impatientguy said:
:whathesaid:

I've always had pretty consistent yields off of MS.  It's the potency that seems vary a bit, but not by much.


Same for me, but you -never know- and that's the issue.

Are you going to biopsy each boom for chromatography?  Hell no.

Far better to just "not have to worry" about the potency or uniform growth, otherwise I wouldn't even bother with isolates/clones.

Plus, yield tends to be consistent, while MS (I've also never seen it not fruit at all..) can vary considerably and usually unfavorably.

Far more often you get the shitty yields than the monster ones with MS.  I'd call most of my tubs "average" which is a success for MS>LC>WBS>Manure/CVG; but like I said, you can only do that for so long before you get totally fucking bored with it.

I am now seeing the first clean Syzygy tissue growing on my first pasty plates.

It's not even hard.  I plan on tiger dropping into sterile water to make liquid inoculant with my first pasty puck, I was just testing a LC I used on some spawn to see if it was clean or not before spawning it to CVG, so far so good.

You could spend the rest of your life growing with nothing but bird seed, sugar water and coconut husks.

But why?  This science is fucking awesome when you actually try new things and advance in it.

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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: plurfekt]
    #25111143 -

I get an oz per jar from MS literally every time. So idk.


I'm def not saying its better than agar work, but it pisses me off to see people talk shit about working with MS.

It works great.


--------------------
Super clean spore printing method: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5276177


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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: impatientguy]
    #25111162 -

impatientguy said:
I get an oz per jar from MS literally every time. So idk.


I'm def not saying its better than agar work, but it pisses me off to see people talk shit about working with MS.

It works great.


Like I said, I did it for ten years with great results, and I've had people give me crap too; they can fuck off and die.

If it works for your particular situation, all power to you!


I'm just saying when you get bored with it, and you will eventually despite success, there is a lot of fun to be had; and better flushes to be seen.

:mushroom2:

Don't think I'm rushing or bashing you man.  Agar is just too easy these days not to suggest it.

A lot of people around here seem to think their way of doing things is the only fuckin' way that is right (kinda like religion, rofl)

But picture 10 years of nothing but brainlessly making the same tubs the same way over and over, eventually you'll tire of it, and when you do, it'll be a grand day for you.

Edited by plurfekt (04/03/18 02:40 PM)

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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: plurfekt]
    #25111164 -

:thumbup:

I will probably move on to bigger and better at some point lol



--------------------
Super clean spore printing method: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5276177


Edited by impatientguy (04/03/18 02:44 PM)

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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: impatientguy] * 1
    #25111175 -

impatientguy said:
:thumbup:

I will probably move on to bigger and better at some point lol


All good things come to those who wait, for patience is a grand virtue.

You'll do it on your own time, and that's okay.  I did the same thing, although I would have gotten to this point a lot sooner if I hadn't hit so many road bumps along the way, outside mycology.

Just do your thing man.  And fuck negative people, they are in it for the circle jerk.

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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: plurfekt]
    #25111183 -

Haha your probably right. The simplicity of MS appeals to me, but I really should work on getting and using a killer isolate.


Thanks for the kind words.  Lol they can be surprisingly difficult to find here.:lol:


--------------------
Super clean spore printing method: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5276177


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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: impatientguy]
    #25111200 -

impatientguy said:
Haha your probably right. The simplicity of MS appeals to me, but I really should work on getting and using a killer isolate.


Thanks for the kind words.  Lol they can be surprisingly difficult to find here.:lol:


I guess it hurts a lot of peoples egos and brains to hear that older techniques still work.

I find it completely comical.  Anyone who is truly about the science will explore multiple avenues and adapt it to their own custom needs.

Constructive criticism can be hard to find when you are surrounded by a bunch of keyboard warriors who think they know the best way to do things.

I aim for logic and facts.  Even that pisses people off, of course - but at least -I personally- learn accurately, even if you find TEKs from people you dislike personally, take what you can from the information and ditch the rest.

Shroomery has a lot of cool people on it, recently seems to have gone into some strange transition but that's speculation/opinion, though not just my own.  Don't give up on the community over a handful of pricks; remember, if they are being rude to you it's only because they hate their own lives.

And you know you've had success, as I have.  Then you look at their not-so-impressive grows they are super proud of and think "damn, not sure why they are that happy with themselves, but I can't wait to see what I can do using their techniques."

:laugh2:

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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: plurfekt]
    #25111228 -

i am tired of assholes ass well but have been encouraged to encounter lots of wonderful folks on this site.

I'm not only a fan of agar for the purposes of cloning and isolating. i also very much appreciate the speed of using living culures. i LOVE not having to wait on and mess with germination but once if five years or so.


--------------------
Masters and slaves hunting clones        How not to isolate (it worked, but)


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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #25111254 -

verum subsequentis said:
i am tired of assholes ass well but have been encouraged to encounter lots of wonderful folks on this site.

I'm not only a fan of agar for the purposes of cloning and isolating. i also very much appreciate the speed of using living culures. i LOVE not having to wait on and mess with germination but once if five years or so.


verum you seem totally cool and laid back and humble.

being part of the tribe, I'm sure you know at least a handful of cool folks already.

Based on what I've seen, and I lurk a lot for someone who posts as opinionated as I do; you have a real future in both cultivation and your personality.

I, on the other hand, most likely just have a future in cultivation.  I gave up on trying to make assholes like me a long time ago.

:yeahthatsfunny:

Oh, and you're totally right about the speed w/ agar as well.

Dude, I can't wait.  I just took on a new full time job and I'm tired as fuck and about to go make up 8 more pastyplates.

Can get grain jars to colonize in 5-8 days.  That's stupid awesome.  With MS>LC, you can get some pretty raw colonization times, as I have, but you can cut the entire process down without guess work, with barely any work on agar, and then the actual process of the science is more enjoyable as well.

As RR put it "I love agar because it's the area of mycology that allows us to become mad scientists."

FYI his video on agar is easier to retain in memory and repeat yourself than grain prep x100

We gucci mayne

:awesome2:

Edited by plurfekt (04/03/18 03:21 PM)

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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: plurfekt]
    #25111296 -

thanks plurfekt. that's nice to hear. shout out to the tribe for sure. it's a great group that i'm glad to have become a part of. Great fucking members, every one.


--------------------
Masters and slaves hunting clones        How not to isolate (it worked, but)


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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #25111346 -

All beginnings should eventually lead to agar:thumbup:

EDIT: Oops...didn’t realize I wasn’t on the last page, but still though :lol:


--------------------
Helpful Threads

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Before you start...Do you have a Pressure Cooker and a Dehydrator? I highly recommend getting both!

Edited by Tormato (04/03/18 03:34 PM)

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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: Tormato] * 1
    #25111358 -

Tormato said:
All beginnings should eventually lead to agar:thumbup:


This is so quote worthy, I had to quote it first.

You're doing great verum, and the tribe is a great place for you.

:mushroom2:

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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: plurfekt]
    #25111396 -

Did some agar research today and have realized it is easy AF! The hardest part I feel is sterile technique; and if you've got that down it should be a breeze! :jah:

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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: Mush Hunter] * 1
    #25111421 -

sterile tek is the only "hard" part of mushroom cultivation. and it's really not that hard. you got this.


--------------------
Masters and slaves hunting clones        How not to isolate (it worked, but)


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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #25111423 -

but i do hate working in a sab when i have to. also, washing tubs isn't my favorite pass time.


--------------------
Masters and slaves hunting clones        How not to isolate (it worked, but)


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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #25111448 -

verum subsequentis said:
sterile tek is the only "hard" part of mushroom cultivation. and it's really not that hard. you got this.


verum subsequentis said:
but i do hate working in a sab when i have to. also, washing tubs isn't my favorite pass time.


Thanks man for the vote of confidence and I agree about SAB work and can see how washing tubs can be exasperating! loll

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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: Mush Hunter]
    #25111453 -

i have this bad habit of emptying a tub or two and thinking, "i'll wash that later". next thing you know i've got 20 66 quart, 15 110 quart and 50 shoe boxes stacked up in the yard. cop helicopters fly by and i wonder what they think (if anything)


--------------------
Masters and slaves hunting clones        How not to isolate (it worked, but)


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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #25111458 -

verum subsequentis said:
but i do hate working in a sab when i have to. also, washing tubs isn't my favorite pass time.


Why not just use a liner?


--------------------
It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn
I'm tired do me a favor

I'M A MEMBER FIRST, TC WHEN NEEDED AND MOD WHEN I HAVE TO BE !!!

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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: cronicr]
    #25111564 -

i can't figure out if i hate dealing with liners or washing tubs more yet. sometimes i do. but even with a liner i like to wash my tubs between runs.


--------------------
Masters and slaves hunting clones        How not to isolate (it worked, but)


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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #25111590 -

I use a liner and I just wipe the tub with ISO in between runs :shrug:


--------------------
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Before you start...Do you have a Pressure Cooker and a Dehydrator? I highly recommend getting both!

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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: Tormato] * 1
    #25111605 -

I hate spending money on plastic I don't need. I already wish we could just put the trash in the trash not in a bag and the bag in the trash. I like taking showers, I wash my tubs in there or in the sink with the sprayer. really easy

In the summer I just wash them outside. People probably think i'm growing weed lol.


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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #25111613 -

I actually didnt have verm when i first made pftek jars on my first run june of last year, so I used coir. It did eat the coir but it still got fruits. it colonized and was still able to dunk. Don't remember how much the yield but it was just two cakes and next to it was a tray in a fc. Then after that just trays in a sgfc. After, I started with 3x66q unmodified and unmodified 2x mini monos 16q. Haven't touched my sgfc since.


--------------------
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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: bodhisatta] * 1
    #25111619 -

bodhisatta said:
In the summer I just wash them outside. People probably think i'm growing weed lol.


Oh you are so busted! :lol: jk


--------------------
Helpful Threads

The Shroomery Store

Tormato's Q&A Thread Post Questions Here or PM me!

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Before you start...Do you have a Pressure Cooker and a Dehydrator? I highly recommend getting both!

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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: Tormato] * 1
    #25111655 -

I've made spore syringes, inoculated countless things, done G2G's, etc all while tripping balls before, I used to trip way too much and now I almost never do. :eek:

You've got this.


I once stuck myself with an 18g needle, directly through my left hand (damn cap stuck and it slipped) and managed to swap it out for a fresh needle, cover the bleeding, and finish the work without a hiccup. :lol:

You've got this.


I tried pretty hard to fuck my first pastyplates up.  They are doing fine. :facepalm:

You've got this.



Anyone that can pass 4th grade can do shit with agar.  It is really sad it has taken me this long to get into.

verum subsequentis said:
but i do hate working in a sab when i have to. also, washing tubs isn't my favorite pass time.


I clean my tubs out with my shower sprayer.  Makes it 1,000 times easier than fuckin' with a sink or w.e as you just spray the fuck out of the whole thing.  Still not my favorite activity, either.  Grain prep is the worst part of the process if you ask me, though.

The only thing I need a SAB for is agar, or agar related procedures like the tiger drop, inoc loops, etc.  Yea, it's better to do inoculations in there too, and I'm starting to for LC's again even though my last open air one is coming back clean on agar, but I feel no need to worry about it with quart jars or spawn bags so long as that bitch is red hot.  I would care if the spore load in my air was as bad as previous places I've lived/grown; that is a factor.

:mushroom2:

Edited by plurfekt (04/03/18 05:31 PM)

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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: plurfekt]
    #25111697 -

Ime, takes just as much time monkeying with liners as it does to wash a tub.


--------------------
     
How I Get Stuff done. - My Reference Guide. - My Grows.

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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: hamloaf]
    #25111706 -

I wonder if parchment paper would work as a liner?

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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: Mush Hunter]
    #25111739 -

Personally washing out my SGFC is a pain, even with the big sink I have. Giving it a good wipe down with some 99% ISO seems to keep it nice and free of contaminants so far. Mono-tubs should be much different if not easier seeing as there are no holes for the water to leak out all over the place like a SGFC. I must admit though having one or two compared to those who have like ten... Could be a factor as to why it is such a tedious job.

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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: Mush Hunter] * 3
    #25111799 -

what ham said. i HATE monkeying with liners. it is so much easier for me to spawn, mix and level in a liner less tub.


--------------------
Masters and slaves hunting clones        How not to isolate (it worked, but)


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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: verum subsequentis] * 1
    #25111832 -

I think ya'll are overlooking the best part about agar. It gives you something to do. I like
when I am in that spot where I can do some kind of myco work every day. Those early days
of MS involved a lot of sitting around and waiting.


--------------------
Cultivating Panaeolus cyanescens


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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: cronicr] * 1
    #25111892 -

cronicr said:
I have never seen ms not fruit.


Yeah and theres no reason you can't just spawn a mini mono or fruit out of the jar to get your desired clone. It's a great way to pick genetics.


--------------------
First time growing cakes? DON'T make a Shotgun Fruiting Chamber

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No Pouring. No Syringes. No Cutting. No flaming. No Contamination. No Bullshit.

"The best thing to do while your waiting is to start more stuff. I usually got so much happening that I have tossed projects simply because I didn't have time for them. -Pastywhite QFT

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Tiger Drop Video Demos By munchauzen

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EZEKIEL 23:20

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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: Tormato]
    #25112595 -

Tormato said:
verum subsequentis said:
that's funny. i have a little coir cake experiment going on at the moment too. i had a bit of left over coir and not enough grain so i loaded up a jar with straight coir, pc'ed it with the grains and nocced it up with li.


Awesome! Keep us posted! I’m curious how this will turn out :thumbup:



I too want to know what coir can do sans grains or other nutrients.


--------------------
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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #25112788 -

verum subsequentis said:
what ham said. i HATE monkeying with liners. it is so much easier for me to spawn, mix and level in a liner less tub.


:whathesaid:

I literally think they are pointless except for removing excess water from dunk easier, but that's not that hard with a level tub and a nitrile glove, just takes a little finesse (and a little luck if the substrate is easy to break apart)

Worst mistake I ever made with a mono was picking a tub that didn't have a level bottom, because they were higher quality plastic/lids.  Had a bunch crumble on me because of that during dunks, so I only use level tubs now.  I've tried a few different dunk techniques and the best I've found is to take two pieces of glass, two full gallons of water, submerg the substrate for ~2 hours holding it down evenly with the two glass plates (squares or fitting rectangles) and full gallon jugs.  If I'm being lazy, I just dump two to four bottles of water on the sub after harvest, and then clean the pins and such off with the shower sprayer on low.  This can cause too much abrasion if you do it on CVG tubs.

FYI - the substrate has broken on me when not being careful with the glass plate/gallon jug method, but when it does work, that's when I've seen the most hydration, but it's not necessary, I was just trying to maximize yield at the time.  Ultimately just be careful not to break up the substrates, regardless of how you do it.

But yea...idk... monos are so self contained when made properly this stuff doesn't even cross my mind.

:mushroom2:

Edited by plurfekt (04/04/18 05:30 AM)

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Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #25113212 -

elasticaltiger said:
Yeah and theres no reason you can't just spawn a mini mono or fruit out of the jar to get your desired clone. It's a great way to pick genetics.


That is how I choose good genetics. I have never seen the point in making isolates.
I prefer making one grow and then selecting a clone, instead on making a grow from each isolate and then choosing the good one.
I seems like a cheaper way to do things.
Maybe isolating gives better results than what I do.
If so, someone please enlighten me.

verum subsequentis said:
i am tired of assholes ass well but have been encouraged to encounter lots of wonderful folks on this site.

I'm not only a fan of agar for the purposes of cloning and isolating. I also very much appreciate the speed of using living cultures. I LOVE not having to wait on and mess with germination but once if five years or so.


I learned to do agar 10 years ago before I ever new one could grow mushrooms with it, but sadly I don't really use it.
I do my clones my way, without agar and without any problems with contamination.
Still I have a very strong feeling that I should do agar.
Should I start working with isolates from a MS syringe?
Do you really store and use the same genetic for five years?
I feel a little stupid for not seeing the potential so many members see in agar.
My instinct tell me to use agar, but why should I?


--------------------
:trippydoc:
Best info for growing mushrooms I found here:
  • TEKs Trusted Cultivator Methods & Mushroom + Cultivation Info LINK LIBRARY
  • How Hamloaf gets stuff done
  • How Frank gets shit done
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  • The Biopsy Method: No Mercy for Bacteria.
  • Simple Liquid Culture (LC) Tek (Recipe) (ELME)
  • Making shoeboxes

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    Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: Dr. Freeman]
        #25113340 -

    Agar is beautiful for many reasons but it is not necessary. The most basic use is ensuring clean living cultures but also amazing is the fact that one drop of spore solution can be used for thousands of grows without much effort. You just transfer until you are sure she's clean and throw a little in a slant, let it grow a bit and throw her in the fridge and Bam, you don't need spores again for... A long long time.


    --------------------
    Masters and slaves hunting clones        How not to isolate (it worked, but)


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    Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: verum subsequentis]
        #25113361 -

    I also like the advantage is has only replicating high performing grows. Through cloning and isolating on agar you can zero in on some pretty powerful genetics and replicate it over and over again. :thumbup:


    --------------------
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    Before you start...Do you have a Pressure Cooker and a Dehydrator? I highly recommend getting both!

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    Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: Tormato]
        #25113400 -

    Tormato said:
    I also like the advantage is has only replicating high performing grows. Through cloning and isolating on agar you can zero in on some pretty powerful genetics and replicate it over and over again. :thumbup:


    I had a half day at work today and you guys are making me wanna do more plates

    :lol:

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    Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: plurfekt]
        #25113483 -

    plurfekt said:
    Tormato said:
    I also like the advantage is has only replicating high performing grows. Through cloning and isolating on agar you can zero in on some pretty powerful genetics and replicate it over and over again. :thumbup:


    I had a half day at work today and you guys are making me wanna do more plates

    :lol:




    --------------------
    Helpful Threads

    The Shroomery Store

    Tormato's Q&A Thread Post Questions Here or PM me!

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    Before you start...Do you have a Pressure Cooker and a Dehydrator? I highly recommend getting both!

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    Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: Tormato]
        #25113570 -

    Tormato said:



    Lmao, I just might; new labor intensive job and I fucked my left elbow up yesterday (who knew that 20 year old iron filters were heavy when filled with salt and water - I sure as fuck did not know to lift it from the top either, rofl) so I should really let it rest for tomorrow though; my entire job is pretty much lifting which I ordinarily enjoy actually.

    Still, I'll like never have days off now that I have a good job/steady hours...

    Sitting here like "WHAT DO I ORDER OFF ZEE INTERNET NEXT??" like the unabomber's worst capitalistic nightmare.

    Then I'm stunned with my spending logic: will I even have time for what I order?  SHIT.

    :lol:

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    Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: plurfekt] * 1
        #25113589 -

    plurfekt said:
    Lmao, I just might; new labor intensive job and I fucked my left elbow up yesterday (who knew that 20 year old iron filters were heavy when filled with salt and water - I sure as fuck did not know to lift it from the top either, rofl) so I should really let it rest for tomorrow though; my entire job is pretty much lifting which I ordinarily enjoy actually.

    Still, I'll like never have days off now that I have a good job/steady hours...

    Sitting here like "WHAT DO I ORDER OFF ZEE INTERNET NEXT??" like the unabomber's worst capitalistic nightmare.

    Then I'm stunned with my spending logic: will I even have time for what I order?  SHIT.

    :lol:


    :lol: The struggle is real! I do the same thing...I buy all kinds of shit and I'm like "Wow! I have all this stuff I'll never have time to play with! :super:"


    --------------------
    Helpful Threads

    The Shroomery Store

    Tormato's Q&A Thread Post Questions Here or PM me!

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    Before you start...Do you have a Pressure Cooker and a Dehydrator? I highly recommend getting both!

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    Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: Tormato] * 1
        #25113617 -

    Tormato said:
    :lol: The struggle is real! I do the same thing...I buy all kinds of shit and I'm like "Wow! I have all this stuff I'll never have time to play with! :super:"


    By the time I'm done I'll have a complete lab, workshop equipped for a variety of metal, leather, woodwork, etc.

    Beats the hell out of sitting around doing nothing, working steady.  But it does take away from the ability to have an open mycology schedule, which makes agar even more important, I have a fridge just for cultures/petris (empty atm, but not for long).

    Yea, IDK how some people find the time, let alone the energy.  Sure is a good thing pasty plates have the easiest lids to make ever, the whole process from scratch takes like an hour, I may work that in right after I cook some wild turkey w/ potatoes and gravy.

    The struggle is real...that saying used to make me so angry for a reason unknown to me, and now I'm just like...

    :cantarguewiththat:

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    Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: verum subsequentis]
        #25115613 -

    Funny how a tread on Coir Vs Verm ends with liners, isolating and cloning.
    :bumpthread:
    verum subsequentis said:
    Agar is beautiful for many reasons but it is not necessary. The most basic use is ensuring clean living cultures but also amazing is the fact that one drop of spore solution can be used for thousands of grows without much effort. You just transfer until you are sure she's clean and throw a little in a slant, let it grow a bit and throw her in the fridge and Bam, you don't need spores again for... A long long time.


    Thanks a lot for the reply.
    It does sound fun and beautiful.
    I will get my agar goin soon


    --------------------
    :trippydoc:
    Best info for growing mushrooms I found here:
  • TEKs Trusted Cultivator Methods & Mushroom + Cultivation Info LINK LIBRARY
  • How Hamloaf gets stuff done
  • How Frank gets shit done
  • My easy LC tek
  • The Biopsy Method: No Mercy for Bacteria.
  • Simple Liquid Culture (LC) Tek (Recipe) (ELME)
  • Making shoeboxes

    • Edited by Dr. Freeman (04/05/18 10:44 AM)

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    Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: Dr. Freeman]
        #25115625 -

    Threads on Shroomery :lmafo:
    :derail:


    --------------------
    Helpful Threads

    The Shroomery Store

    Tormato's Q&A Thread Post Questions Here or PM me!

    "Lately it occurs to me what a long, strange trip it's been." ~ Grateful Dead

    Before you start...Do you have a Pressure Cooker and a Dehydrator? I highly recommend getting both!

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    Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: Tormato]
        #25115912 -

    Tormato said:
    Threads on Shroomery :lmafo:
    :derail:


    I RESENT THIS.  All that was talked about here was useful, relevant information.

    If you are drunk and lost with a 2018 join date.

    :laugh2:

    Nah, I've noticed this a lot, and it's far more forgiving in journals - many subjects relate to each other in academia / the sciences.

    Take a group of intellectuals and throw them something controversial and pretty soon you're debating just about anything you can imagine, but it all traces back to the OP in one way or another.  Ultimately the reason this thread moved towards monotub techniques is due to the nature of how coir behaves being so nutrient rich/dense that it's a great bulk sub, which leads to things to watch out for with CVG tubs and so on.

    Plus, people have already tried making cakes out of all kinds of shit, probably what led people to the bottle tek. :cool:

    I made a PF cake with a pyrex dish and tin foil once, steam-cooked in a regular boiling pot before I owned my first PC'er.  I then took this PF cake which when inverted looked like an indian burial mound in a SGFC.  I then sanitized and shoved a wire clothes hanger through it, and mounted it so it was hanging in the air inside the SGFC.

    RR then told me to quit trying to reinvent the fucking wheel and just make normal cakes for like the 10th time.

    LOL

    Edited by plurfekt (04/05/18 01:20 PM)

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    Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: plurfekt]
        #25115962 -

    plurfekt said:
    All that was talked about here was useful, relevant information.


    I agree..that's why I actually don't mind when they do get off topic for a bit :thumbup:


    --------------------
    Helpful Threads

    The Shroomery Store

    Tormato's Q&A Thread Post Questions Here or PM me!

    "Lately it occurs to me what a long, strange trip it's been." ~ Grateful Dead

    Before you start...Do you have a Pressure Cooker and a Dehydrator? I highly recommend getting both!

    Extras: Filter Print Post Top
    Re: COIR vs VERM on BRF??? [Re: Mush Hunter]
        #25115968 -

    This thread has been closed.

    Reason:
    Yep pretty derailed

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