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Offlinemike-ologist
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Re: Shitake growers' thread [Re: Mr. Shiitake]
    #25104459 - 03/31/18 12:33 PM (5 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Mr. Shiitake said:
I tried posting an original thread about this, got 30 views and no response--so maybe the shiitake group will be able to help:

Has anyone here had any experience with shiitake dermatitis caused by lentinan in undercooked/raw shiitake? The literature suggests you need to cook to 145C (293F) to degrade the compound, thus making it safe for consumption. However, this seems like overkill to me, especially because lentinan is also a highly prized medicinal compound and only negatively impacts ~1% of people.



If you cook shitake to 145c you will incinerate them. I wouldnt eat them raw, but if you saute, fry, bake, or broil them at medium temps with ksp and sesame oil you wont be sorry.

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OfflineMr. Shiitake
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Re: Shitake growers' thread [Re: mike-ologist]
    #25104695 - 03/31/18 02:01 PM (5 years, 10 months ago)

I love shiitake and have cooked them in virtually every way-- I'm not sure what internal temperature they reach but I know it's nowhere near 145C. The papers show that people who are known to suffer from shiitake dermatitis do not develop symptoms if lentinan infusions are heated to 145C. However, another source claims that heating in a oven for 15 min at 150C will eliminate the risk, whereas 15 min at 100C is insufficient. Perhaps it's just confusion about oven temperature vs. internal temperature of the mushroom.

I'm mostly concerned about selling a product that could cause this reaction. However, I've never seen anyone else warn about it on a label. Any idea if a vendor could be legally liable for something like this? Perhaps you could relieve yourself of responsibility with a label like "Do not eat raw or undercooked mushrooms".

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OfflineBry Bry
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Re: Shitake growers' thread [Re: Mr. Shiitake]
    #25104806 - 03/31/18 02:58 PM (5 years, 10 months ago)

Never heard of it until you brought it up. Sellers can't be held liable for every little thing. There would be so many more useless lawsuits than there are now and businesses going out of business it would be unreal. At some point, people have to be responsible for themselves. Restaurants are already putting potential food allergies on their menus, manufacturers are putting them on their ingredients list, can't do more than that when the customer likely doesn't know if they are allergic or not.

If it only affects 1% of the population, you likely wouldn't have to worry about it.

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OfflineQuadman
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Re: Shitake growers' thread [Re: Bry Bry]
    #25104993 - 03/31/18 04:26 PM (5 years, 10 months ago)

:whathesaid: less than 1% is a low number. It's not like it is a hidden ingredient, it's a mushroom. That said, if your serious about selling mushrooms and have net worth. I would suggest a LLC and/or product liability. Maybe commercial guys can weigh in with their practices.


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Offlinedrake89
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Re: Shitake growers' thread [Re: Quadman]
    #25105236 - 03/31/18 06:36 PM (5 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Quadman said:
:whathesaid: less than 1% is a low number. It's not like it is a hidden ingredient, it's a mushroom. That said, if your serious about selling mushrooms and have net worth. I would suggest a LLC and/or product liability. Maybe commercial guys can weigh in with their practices.



You can't sell anything except direct to restaurants or consumers without liability insurance.  Farmers markets and wholesale buyers demand proof of liability insurance from 2-3million aggregate.  Wholesalers also want to see some kind of 3rd party audit certificate like GAP HACCP or SQF


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Fiery Fungi (like us on faeboo)

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OfflineBry Bry
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Re: Shitake growers' thread [Re: drake89]
    #25105567 - 03/31/18 09:27 PM (5 years, 10 months ago)

The company I work for full time requires ALL of our food vendors to have a minimum of $1 million in liability insurance. We are supposed to be local sourcing and farm to table but none of the small farms we should be buying from can cover the insurance requirements.

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Offlinemike-ologist
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Re: Shitake growers' thread [Re: Bry Bry]
    #25113768 - 04/04/18 01:39 PM (5 years, 10 months ago)

Leave it to the bureaucracy to make a simple concept into a complex one. Has anyone here tried the log tower set up for shitake? It has my interest, im just concerned about maintenance and harvest difficulty/ yeild loss.

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OfflineBry Bry
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Re: Shitake growers' thread [Re: mike-ologist]
    #25113783 - 04/04/18 01:47 PM (5 years, 10 months ago)

Log tower?

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InvisibleHumble Newcomer
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Re: Shitake growers' thread [Re: Bry Bry]
    #25114309 - 04/04/18 06:32 PM (5 years, 10 months ago)

That's just stacking the shiitake logs in a square shape and keep stacking them like a jenga stack right? The way they're stacked allows airflow all around.

I've seen that in photos a lot with a giant shade cloth over the stack. Also helps maintain humidity in the tower.

I always assumed that was for the first 12 or 18 months And they were moved to a more spread out area for harvest. But I could be totally wrong.


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How I made my mush GH

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OfflineQuadman
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Re: Shitake growers' thread [Re: Humble Newcomer]
    #25114456 - 04/04/18 07:28 PM (5 years, 10 months ago)

Yep only for incubation. Usually stand each log vertical to fruit later.


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OfflineBry Bry
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Re: Shitake growers' thread [Re: Quadman]
    #25114935 - 04/05/18 01:36 AM (5 years, 10 months ago)

Oh ok, I gotcha now. I won't have enough shiitake logs to worry about that.

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OfflineMr. Shiitake
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Re: Shitake growers' thread [Re: Bry Bry]
    #25115260 - 04/05/18 07:10 AM (5 years, 10 months ago)

Some Chinese companies will produce synthetic logs and stack them during incubation, but not for fruiting.

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Offlinemike-ologist
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Re: Shitake growers' thread [Re: Mr. Shiitake]
    #25118180 - 04/06/18 11:38 AM (5 years, 10 months ago)

That makes total sense. It still sounds like a good incubation plan though.im tempted to repanel my raised garden bed with shitake boards xD

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InvisibleHumble Newcomer
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Re: Shitake growers' thread [Re: mike-ologist]
    #25122019 - 04/07/18 10:06 PM (5 years, 10 months ago)

Synthetic logs? Do they make these or buy these? For what reason? It's profitable?

I guess bc such densely populated, perhaps all urban and little forest so wood is very expensive?


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How I made my mush GH

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OfflineMr. Shiitake
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Re: Shitake growers' thread [Re: Humble Newcomer]
    #25125024 - 04/09/18 07:23 AM (5 years, 10 months ago)

Rather than using 18" lengths of solid wood (logs), growers will form supplemented sawdust blocks into the shape of a log (synthetic). Advantages include faster growth cycle and higher yields.

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InvisibleHumble Newcomer
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Re: Shitake growers' thread [Re: Mr. Shiitake]
    #25125073 - 04/09/18 08:00 AM (5 years, 10 months ago)

I was googling around and I kept getting enriched sawdust blocks in plastic bags as my answer....

In that case, I think the majority of us here do "synthetic logs".

We just call them hwfp blocks or shiitake blocks.


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How I made my mush GH

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OfflineMr. Shiitake
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Re: Shitake growers' thread [Re: Humble Newcomer]
    #25125286 - 04/09/18 09:37 AM (5 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Humble Newcomer said:
I was googling around and I kept getting enriched sawdust blocks in plastic bags as my answer....

In that case, I think the majority of us here do "synthetic logs".

We just call them hwfp blocks or shiitake blocks.




Still getting used to the community! I call mine blocks as well, although I had to google to learn HWFP means hardwood fuel pellets.

I was thinking specifically about the log-stacking method, which wouldn't work for the blocks. There is one particular importer that forms their sawdust into long, cylindrical log-shaped blocks so that's what I've been calling "synthetic logs"

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OfflineMr. Shiitake
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Re: Shitake growers' thread [Re: Mr. Shiitake]
    #25125306 - 04/09/18 09:46 AM (5 years, 10 months ago)

Apparently they are also referred to as "composite logs". Here's a few examples of what I'm talking about:

http://local.freshpoint.com/store_page/qihe-mushrooms/

http://www.agrinoon.com/agriculture/shiitake-mushroom-spawnmushroom-logs

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InvisibleHumble Newcomer
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Re: Shitake growers' thread [Re: Mr. Shiitake]
    #25125648 - 04/09/18 12:07 PM (5 years, 10 months ago)

No worries,welcome.

That one had specifications, 10cmx40cm is real close to 4" x 16" if I'm not mistaken. Anticipated yield is .8kg or about 2lbs.

Interesting, the pictures look to yield more like real shiitake logs and less like sawdust blocks as well, if u haven't seen some of the members here and their 3782 shiitake grows for example, it's a solid canopy of shiitake caps and you can't even see the block for all the mushrooms.

Real logs fruit much less each season but for several seasons, and the reason for that I think is the ultra compressed medium, the wood fibers take years to digest.


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How I made my mush GH

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OfflineMr. Shiitake
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Re: Shitake growers' thread [Re: Humble Newcomer]
    #25125813 - 04/09/18 01:31 PM (5 years, 10 months ago)

Rumor is some of those growers will remove many pins, only leaving ~15 pins per composite log to increase individual mushroom size. Not sure if I believe this, plus it would totally depend on the strain.

My account image is actually a test run on the 3782 strain, formed quite the canopy on my blocks. I love seeing all the mushrooms, but it sure is more difficult to harvest.

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