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OfflineRombino
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Spawn consolidated brf cakes to coir
    #25101568 - 03/30/18 09:37 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Hey all, sorry if this is a silly question, I searched for the answer but got mixed answers so I figured I'd check in for the latest thoughts on it. So can consolidated brf cakes be spawned to straight coir? Or even a mix coir-wormcasting-verm mix? These are my first 4 jars ever, I've got one fruiting now, another going to fruit tomorrow, and figured I'd try out spawning one to a substrate to get a better yield. I'm growing to treat my depression, meds do not help me, I've tryed them for years and need something that actually works! Any advice would be greatly appreciated


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Edited by Rombino (03/30/18 09:38 AM)


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OfflineDr. Freeman
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Re: Spawn consolidated brf cakes to coir [Re: Rombino]
    #25101676 - 03/30/18 10:38 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

If this is your first grow, I'll recommend avoiding worm casting.
Keep it simple, coir is all you really need.

This is a good tek on coir.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24077162#24077162


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OfflineRombino
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Re: Spawn consolidated brf cakes to coir [Re: Dr. Freeman]
    #25101743 - 03/30/18 11:07 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Ok,cool. So coir has enough nutrients to feed it then? Cool! And its ok with a fully consolidated cake that hasn't pinned yet? Just want to make absolutely sure I understand correctly. Thanks Doc!


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OfflineDr. Freeman
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Re: Spawn consolidated brf cakes to coir [Re: Rombino]
    #25101768 - 03/30/18 11:18 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

It's hard to know if a cake is 100% colonized on the inside.
That is why we leave it for a week after we get 100% surface colonization.
Also for consolidation.
If the caked is really fully colonized you can crumble it and spawn to coir, whether it is pining or not.
It is best if it hasn't pinned.
If you crumble your cake an find it wasn't fully colonized inside, just wash away the uncolonized part.

Remember to dunk the cake, it will really boost things up.

Post Edit

Coir, verm and BRF all have sufficient nutrients.
I find that adding horse poo also increases the quality of the grow.
But you have to pasteurize poo or it will contaminate.
It takes extra care, that is why I didn't recommend it on your first grow.
Manure is easier to contaminate.

You can work with coir while scratching your butt and picking your nose.


Edited by Dr. Freeman (03/30/18 11:25 AM)


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OfflineRombino
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Re: Spawn consolidated brf cakes to coir [Re: Dr. Freeman]
    #25101799 - 03/30/18 11:37 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Ok that makes sense. I did the 4 cakes together and one has begun fruiting invtro, I read they pin only after they've consolidated? so I dunked it and put it in my fc. This is why I'm assuming they have all consolidated or close to it, is that safe to assume? Wasn't sure if consolidated cakes will begin colonizing new substrate or if was too late. So I've also read that using a cheese grater is good to break up cakes? It gives lots of points for new growth to take place?
And thanks for that link to your favorite tek info too!
Just noticed your edit too, lol that's funny! And informative


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Edited by Rombino (03/30/18 11:42 AM)


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OfflineDr. Freeman
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Re: Spawn consolidated brf cakes to coir [Re: Rombino]
    #25101896 - 03/30/18 12:24 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Te cake pining has already consolidated.
Can't speak for the other 3 as cakes from multi spore solution tend to grow at different speed. Even clones grow at different speed depending on how much you inoculate a cake with.

But yes, you could assume they are 100% colonized and probably consolidating.

Cheese grater is fine as long as it is really clean.

If you can, post a pic of your fruits and weight your crop so people can compare the harvest from a cake vs a spawned cake.

Good look with your project

And regarding depression, micro-dosing seems to help.
https://www.shroomery.org/14150/Micro-dosing-at-work-home

Making capsules seems like an interesting way to micro-dose.
https://www.shroomery.org/10046/Shroom-capsules-with-the-Cap-M-Quik


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OfflineRombino
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Re: Spawn consolidated brf cakes to coir [Re: Dr. Freeman]
    #25102260 - 03/30/18 03:31 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Ya know, I never even considered that I might actually have some useful data, being a complete noob to all this. I definately will post pics and info for sure. Thanks for reminding me that it may be valuable to the community.
The cake that fruited invitro was about 95% colonized, I did use the tall 1/2 pint jars so I think that was why, partly anyhow. The pin survived a 24hr dunk and is still growing, slowly. There are two tiny aborts on it as well. One other jar is completely colonized and is going for a swim tonight. Lol. The other two are about 90-95% now and one will be shredded And used as spawn for the cause. Lol


These are about 2 1/2 day apart


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OfflineDr. Freeman
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Re: Spawn consolidated brf cakes to coir [Re: Rombino]
    #25102387 - 03/30/18 04:28 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Nice. Good to see thing are doing just fine.

We learn from experience, ours and others.
Success and failure alike.

Screwing up and asking what went wrong is a vital part of the process.

I would have never managed to grow a single shroom if people didn't messed their grow and didn't asked questions.
I learned from the mistakes of the un-experienced and  from the advice of the Trusted Cultivators.


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OfflineRombino
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Re: Spawn consolidated brf cakes to coir [Re: Dr. Freeman]
    #25103818 - 03/31/18 08:21 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Yes this is very true! Well said!  We always learn from our mistakes, and the journey to success, but seldom for our successes....
Birthed two more last night, one has pinned. Both Soaking now.  The first one has a few more pinned now too. Looks like I'm on my way now. Gonna need to learn how to make syringes and do agar stuff now too.... This is fun!! Haha!


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InvisiblebodhisattaM
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Re: Spawn consolidated brf cakes to coir [Re: Rombino]
    #25104106 - 03/31/18 12:12 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Rombino said:
Ok,cool. So coir has enough nutrients to feed it then? Cool! And its ok with a fully consolidated cake that hasn't pinned yet? Just want to make absolutely sure I understand correctly. Thanks Doc!



Ideally you want to use a cake before consolidation if you're spawning it to substrate so that its in vigorous growing mode still.

The nutrition is in the brown rice flour. Spawning to bulk isn't adding nutrition its adding water supply.


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OfflineRombino
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Re: Spawn consolidated brf cakes to coir [Re: bodhisatta]
    #25104281 - 03/31/18 01:25 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

The nutrition is in the brown rice flour. Spawning to bulk isn't adding nutrition its adding water supply.



Really? Hmm, interesting. I'm confused, wouldn't that be a casing then? People mix a jar of colonized rye or wbs in a big ol pile of poo and all the poo is doing is providing moisture?


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InvisiblebodhisattaM
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Re: Spawn consolidated brf cakes to coir [Re: Rombino]
    #25104320 - 03/31/18 01:38 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

For the most part. The WBS is providing more nutrition than you'll be able to even use before the grow goes south. You can basically measure your yields based off amount of spawn used irregardless of substrate choices.

With edibles they use low spawn ratios but supplement the substrate with things like bran(grain derived)


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Re: Spawn consolidated brf cakes to coir [Re: bodhisatta]
    #25105165 - 03/31/18 07:48 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Ten or fifteen years ago people said poo was the nutritious substrate, until someone stated that they could also digest and benefit from coir and verm (yes they do digest rock).
They are nutritious, but for the sake of communication and to respect the common language spoken here: the grain is nutritious part and the substrate provides water.

Grains provides proteins, carbs and fatty acids, their function is to provide the metabolic fuel that will impulse your growth.

The main function of the substrate is to provide water.

Some people like to make exotic compost with zebra poo, elephant dung and whatever extra nutrients you could think of. And swear it is superior to anything else.

I once spawned a clone into  a substrate with plain coir and the other substrate with coir and poo.
The substrate with poo seemed healthier (my perception could have been affected by self suggestion).
I put both into fruiting condition and lost the tag.
I couldn't tell which harvest had the poo substrate by how they looked.
Regarding potency, I don't have either the sufficient education nor the equipment to measure alkaloid content of a mushroom.

When I choose a substrate I care for water retention, and resistance to contamination. The consistency is also important So I choose good ol coir.
With most substrates you will hit the wall with contamination and lack of water long before you run out of nutrients from your grain.

I'm not saying that people who use poo are wrong. I simply state what I prefer and why.


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OfflineRombino
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Re: Spawn consolidated brf cakes to coir [Re: Dr. Freeman]
    #25105406 - 03/31/18 10:05 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Ok, mind blown! Seeing as I'm clueless ill go by what y'all say but I cant help but feel this is like an early April fools joke or something lol ign
Thanks for the info. It all seems so pointless now if That's the case...


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OfflineDr. Freeman
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Re: Spawn consolidated brf cakes to coir [Re: Rombino]
    #25105533 - 03/31/18 11:09 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Don't be mind blown. It's just general information you asked for. You don't really need all that info in your head right now.
It took me a long time to get my first successful Pf cake going.
You are already there, about to enjoy your first harvest.
Enjoy it.
No one is pushing you to go any further.


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Re: Spawn consolidated brf cakes to coir [Re: Dr. Freeman]
    #25106026 - 04/01/18 07:21 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah I hear ya doc, you're right and I thank both you and Bod for the information you've shared with me. I thought I was starting to wrap my head around what's going on with growing and it turned upside down on me, thats why it kinda blew my mind I guess.
Thanks for educating me. Happy Easter to all!


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Re: Spawn consolidated brf cakes to coir [Re: Rombino]
    #25106116 - 04/01/18 09:17 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Long time people considered poo very nutritional and a requirement for good shrooms. Coir was considered a casing and non nutritional. Then coir was used as substrate. People talked shit on coir being non nutritional.

Regardless if coir is or isn't nutritional there's so much nutrition in the grain that a tub made with only coir and grains puts this out on flush 4/5



And you can still see grain kernels in the substrate that are quite shrunken.

So you can pull the same weight as any choice in substrate using the same quantity of spawn. And potency is no issue regardless of substrate choice either.

That's why I refer to bulk as the water supply. Because even if its nutritional you're already dealing with too much nutrition to realistically use in a single grow because of spawn anyway.


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Re: Spawn consolidated brf cakes to coir [Re: bodhisatta]
    #25123816 - 04/08/18 06:33 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Ooh ok I see what you're saying now. There is already more then enough there for them to eat so it doesn't really matter most times.

I decided to make a grain and spawn it to some coir/verm. Didn't do a very good job of getting it all colonized but Desided to put it in a coir/verm substrate then cased the top with more of the same anyway. This is what its doing so far. I think its doing ok, am I bullshitting myself or does it look ok?



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OfflineDr. Freeman
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Re: Spawn consolidated brf cakes to coir [Re: Rombino]
    #25160090 - 04/23/18 04:32 PM (3 years, 18 days ago)

It's been two weeks since those pictures, I guess you had your first flush already.


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Re: Spawn consolidated brf cakes to coir [Re: Dr. Freeman]
    #25161166 - 04/24/18 12:02 AM (3 years, 18 days ago)

Oh geez yeah, sorry about that, been crazy busy with school. (Old man running ragged) lol
Yes I did, here's what it looked like. Only got 219ish wet grams out of it but for my first grain trays and second grow ever, I'm happy with it!





Even got me a Siamese twin mushrooms. Lol I thought that was weird, does that kinda thing happen often? Wonder why....


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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Getting Started

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