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Invisiblesudly
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Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 11,244
Re: The Biological Computer within. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25084304 - 03/23/18 07:59 AM (6 years, 7 days ago)

Mental synthesis :cookiemonster:
Quote:

Mental synthesis is the conscious purposeful prefrontal cortex-driven process of synthesizing a novel mental image from parts stored in memory. Mental synthesis is neurologically different from the other key components of imagination: simple memory recall and dreaming. Unlike dreaming, which is spontaneous and not controlled by the prefrontal cortex (PFC), mental synthesis is controlled by and completely dependent on the intact lateral PFC. Unlike simple memory recall that involves activation of a single neuronal ensemble encoded at some point in the past, mental synthesis is a motor act that involves active combination of two or more neuronal ensembles.



:themoreyouknow:


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: The Biological Computer within. [Re: sudly]
    #25084401 - 03/23/18 08:50 AM (6 years, 7 days ago)

the neuronal assemblies mentioned in your quote are engrams

the quote highlights the special layered thinking that is generally done in the (lateral) prefrontal cortex providing it has not been damaged.

the science behind the quote is minimal and gross or nonspecific, and the area being discussed is noted because the data feeding into the study includes persons with damaged LPFC (i.e. gross resolution based upon damage or nonspecific lesions) as well as persons with regular LPFC.

In this case for your biological computer the LPFC represents an analog of an integrated peripheral which can hold onto copies of memories - like an extra screen on your laptop, or like a pair of hands that manipulate not fingers but ideas/mental content.

Note: it is not the only location where ideas are formed or recalled, it is just well set up to hold a copy of other mental content for comparison and combination purposes.

still at no point is any memory similar to stored computer data, although you could say that the activated neurons are analogous to pixels which form an image of the memory experience, while each view of the same image is different depending on what else is happening in the brain.


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: The Biological Computer within. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25085162 - 03/23/18 02:25 PM (6 years, 7 days ago)

Hmm, if you really think about.. any type of idea or notion or category does indeed actually exist in the brain.. for how could we conjecture or think of it?

But the question is where?

The minimum would be things existing in the mind!

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Invisiblesudly
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Re: The Biological Computer within. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25086223 - 03/23/18 11:03 PM (6 years, 6 days ago)

I no longer think of us beings as analogous to a 'biological computer'. Instead I see that there are biochemical processes that take place within us.

How that's interpreted is up to the individual but that they occur within us is not.


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Invisiblesudly
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Posts: 11,244
Re: The Biological Computer within. [Re: sudly]
    #25088426 - 03/24/18 10:43 PM (6 years, 5 days ago)

I can't stress enough how important I think this quote is as it is a citation to the claim that the biochemical processes of fear that occur within us are tamable.

Quote:

CRF is released from the paraventricular nucleus (PVN) of the hypothalamus and drives the hypothalamus–pituitary–adrenal axis (HPA-axis). CRF stimulates the release of adrenocorticotropic hormone (ACTH) in the blood which in turn stimulates the secretion of cortisol by the adrenal cortex. The HPA-axis contains a negative feedback mechanism, which allows cortisol – through binding at glucocorticoid receptors in the hippocampus and prefrontal cortex – to reduce CRF release by the PVN, and subsequently to reduce adrenal secretion of cortisol.


Koob GF. The dark side of emotion: the addiction perspective. Eur J Pharmacol. 2015;753:73–87.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/14737175.2016.1220834




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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: The Biological Computer within. [Re: sudly]
    #25088931 - 03/25/18 08:32 AM (6 years, 5 days ago)

I do not know why you are so fixated on this.
it is important with respect to keeping the creature part of the brain body intact, but it is not much related to the thinking machine:
Quote:

wikipedia:Corticotropin-releasing hormone (CRH) is a releasing hormone found mainly in the paraventricular nucleus of the mammalian hypothalamus that regulates the release of corticotropin (ACTH) from the pituitary gland. The paraventricular nucleus transports CRH to the anterior pituitary, stimulating adrenocorticotropic hormone (ACTH) release via CRH type 1 receptors, thereby activating the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis (HPA) and, thus, glucocorticoid release.




the article you linked discusses HPA involvement with addiction and crudely indicates that removal of the adrenocorticoid pathway removes narcotic self stimulation in lab animals.

(poor resolution and not fundamentally related to the general idea of what makes a thinking machine, and how can one be biologically based - other feedback systems include DPA - dopamine reward - both are external to thinking, but can be instrumental in training - e.g. reward and punishment associations)


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Edited by redgreenvines (03/25/18 09:10 AM)

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Invisiblesudly
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Re: The Biological Computer within. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25093603 - 03/27/18 02:51 AM (6 years, 3 days ago)

I'd be interested to hear your take on what the difference is between the creature part of the brain body and the thinking machine? Or what you mean by that.

I see reactions that occur autonomously, and responses that are trained and executed.

I am also intrigued by this idea because the potential for the biochemical process I cited to be fixated to muscle memory means there is a capability within us to reduce a high heart rate, reduce blood pressure, relieve hypertension and overcome both panic attacks and the feeling associated with anxiety.

And by muscle memory I mean strengthening the neuronal ensembles that regulate CRH release.

Overall I see that mental synthesis(activity in neocortex) activates the HPA Axis via the pituitary gland as a result of sending signals to the hypothalamus to regulate CRH release.

There is an evident link between the hypothalamus and the neocortex as well as one between the hypothalamus and the pituitary gland.
Quote:

Undoubtedly one of the outstanding features of the study of brain functions during recent years is the demonstration that the interaction of cortical and hypothalamic functions is much more direct than had been supposed. For example impulses from important centres in the hypothalamus can be directly projected, through monosynaptic relays, to specific areas of the cortex, while electrical stimulation of these specific areas of the cortex can be shown to affect autonomic activities through the medium of the hypothalamus. Apart, however, from the evidence of specific relationships between hypothalamic nuclei and cortical areas, there is also evidence that the hypothalamus may profoundly influence the activity of the cortex as a whole.

ANATOMICAL RELATIONSHIPS BETWEEN THE CEREBRAL CORTEX AND THE HYPOTHALAMUS
W. E. LE GROS CLARK, F.R.S. D.Sc. F.R.C.S.  MARGARET MEYER
British Medical Bulletin, Volume 6, Issue 4, 1 January 1950, Pages 341–344, https://doi.org/10.1093/oxfordjournals.bmb.a073627




Quote:

The hormones of the pituitary gland help regulate the functions of other endocrine glands. The pituitary gland has two parts—the anterior lobe and posterior lobe—that have two very separate functions. The hypothalamus sends signals to the pituitary to release or inhibit pituitary hormone production.

In some cases, the hypothalamus signals the pituitary gland to stimulate or inhibit hormone production. Essentially, the pituitary acts after the hypothalamus prompts it.

https://www.endocrineweb.com/endocrinology/overview-pituitary-gland




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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


Edited by sudly (03/27/18 03:10 AM)

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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: The Biological Computer within. [Re: sudly] * 1
    #25093607 - 03/27/18 02:56 AM (6 years, 3 days ago)

There is probably circuits for each level of awareness about anything..

Socio cultural circuit.. of a deer or the devil we express through archtypes..

This is still a new science.. but way open to speculation..

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Invisiblesudly
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Re: The Biological Computer within. [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #25096179 - 03/28/18 12:56 AM (6 years, 2 days ago)

I'd be grateful if you could introduce me to someone else peddling these ideals. 

My message here is that I'm not the only one showing interest in this pursuit of understanding the biochemical processes within.

Quote:

These findings thus provide a mechanistic explanation for the longstanding observation of HPA axis stimulation in response to 5-HT and thereby give insight into the neural circuitry mediating the complex neuroendocrine responses to stress.

Although not assessed here, it is intriguing to speculate that a mechanism through which 5-HT affects both feeding behavior and HPA axis activity is via regulation of CRH activity in the PVH.

http://www.jneurosci.org/content/27/26/6956




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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: The Biological Computer within. [Re: sudly]
    #25096520 - 03/28/18 07:35 AM (6 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

sudly said:
I'd be grateful if you could introduce me to someone else peddling these ideals. 

My message here is that I'm not the only one showing interest in this pursuit of understanding the biochemical processes within.

Quote:

These findings thus provide a mechanistic explanation for the longstanding observation of HPA axis stimulation in response to 5-HT and thereby give insight into the neural circuitry mediating the complex neuroendocrine responses to stress.

Although not assessed here, it is intriguing to speculate that a mechanism through which 5-HT affects both feeding behavior and HPA axis activity is via regulation of CRH activity in the PVH.

http://www.jneurosci.org/content/27/26/6956







many educated people store their heads up their asses
don't repeat junk - it's undignified:

also this sentence does not parse into any gramatically formed idea - although I will attempt an interpretation:
"Although not assessed here, it is intriguing to speculate that a mechanism through which 5-HT affects both feeding behavior and HPA axis activity is via regulation of CRH activity in the PVH."

the speculation parses out as a mechanism (affecting eating and FOF) via regulation of CRH in PVH.

This implies quite a few arrows of vague impingement's in a system (to be discovered), and still does not say what would do  what to what. i.e. this is simply correlative data collection mixed with unbridled speculation relating 5HT in some way to eating and escaping or aggression.

Note: you will find tons of correlative science reporting that has no actual findings such as - Alzheimer's is correlated to prostate cancer in ageing men but it is correlated to ovarian cancer in ageing women but both the control and test groups are over 65.
That correlation is pretty much a smoke screen waste of time since age related diseases happen in both sexes but men don't have ovaries and women don't have prostates.


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Invisiblesudly
Quasar Praiser


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 11,244
Re: The Biological Computer within. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25098396 - 03/28/18 10:13 PM (6 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

The dynamic interplay between serotonin [5-hydroxytryptamine (5-HT)] neurotransmission and the hypothalamic–pituitary–adrenal (HPA) axis has been extensively studied over the past 30 years, but the underlying mechanism of this interaction has not been defined.




The backbone of the idea is there, that there is a biochemical process within us that influences our heart rate and blood pressure. The specifics on how exactly CRH activity is regulated is still open to speculation, and my only speculation was that this is related to activity associated with mental synthesis.

The Big Bang is one of those things where the exact cause is still open to speculation but I don't think that means it's time to hide away and give up on ever finding an answer.

I agree that correlation doesn't equal causation, though I do find it interesting that mental synthesis causes activity in the fore brain, and that the fore brain communicates with the amygdala, and that the amygdala communicates with the hypothalamus where the PVH resides.

Quote:

Thus in humans, a stimulus that evokes fear or sadness in one person may have little or no effect on the emotions of another. Although the pathways underlying such responses are not well understood, the amygdala and its interconnections with an array of neocortical areas in the prefrontal cortex and several subcortical structures appear to be especially important in the higher order processing of emotion. In addition to its connections with the hypothalamus and brainstem centers that regulate autonomic function, the amygdala has significant connections with several cortical areas in the orbital and medial aspects of the frontal lobe.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK10893/




I also don't think some means all, though I do understand and appreciate a healthy dose of skepticism.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


Edited by sudly (03/29/18 12:18 AM)

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