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 psi
TOAST N' JAM
 
Registered: 09/05/99
Posts: 31,569
Loc: 613 
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Quote:
bio_alchemist said:
Yeah IMO the idea that gender goes beyond genitals is sexist 
Human beings can behave, dress, do whatever they want.
Yeah my views are similar. Certainly stereotypes and categories fall short of describing the variety between different people. Dress and act how you feel comfortable, stereotypes and biological sex be damned. But why embrace further categorization?
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LilithVelkor
Stranger Than Fiction
Registered: 03/23/18
Posts: 37
Loc: The Bay
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Well everything that you said is true and I don't disagree technically, the problem is the expectations people associate with sex.
When I first came out of the closet and started dressing and acting like a woman 24/7 I kept using the men's restroom out of respect for women because 1. I was physically male and 2. I am attracted to women.
For a while it was not a big deal although every now and then a man would walk into the restroom and see me in there and assume he had walked into the wrong restroom and then walked out and into the women's restroom without even looking at the signs again. Obviously they were somewhat angry with me on a few of these occasions.
Then I started experiencing men getting really angry as soon as they saw me in the men's restroom. They would yell at me "Where am I supposed to go to the bathroom if YOU are in here?!" or just "Get out of the men's restroom!?"
There were several times that while I was going to the bathroom men would peer at me through the crack between the door and the stall.
It ultimately made more sense for me to use the women's restroom even though I am male because men's expectations of how a man should dress and act made them threatening and violent towards me when I tried to simply accept the fact that my clothing and mannerisms make me no less male than anyone else with male body parts.
I happily use a third-party restroom whenever they are available but such facilities are rare. Also many people think it is an unreasonable request to include gender neutral restrooms in public facilities.
I have honestly gone outside and peed behind trees before just because it is so uncomfortable for me to use public restrooms, but I could be arrested for doing so.
Should I have to dress and act like a man just because some people get angry if anyone who has a penis doesn't dress and act like a man? A lot of people in our society pretend to be something that they are not just because other people will become very abusive towards them for not fitting the mold...
Another consideration is I have boobs. If I were arrested and put in a men's jail because I am technically male do you think I would be safe in there? Would it be fair on myself and the other inmates to put a person with boobs in a men's jail? Would it be unreasonable for me to request to shower separately from the other men? If I found myself incarcerated I would request solitary confinement for my own safety and to be respectful of the more typically masculine men in the facility, but I honestly don't know if that request would be respected. I could lie and say I was suicidal but then their protocol is to try to "cure" me so I could be taken out of solitary confinement asap.
You might say that this is my fault for not just dressing and acting like a man, but I have every right to be the person that I am most comfortable being. I tried being a typical man for a long time and was ultimately very depressed and suicidal which is an experience many transgender people have when they can't be themselves.
Should I live a lie because society can't accept the fact that not everyone who is physically male wants to dress and act masculine?
Ultimately I decided that however uncomfortable it might be at first the only way society would stop being uncomfortable with people like me was for me to just be myself and let them see that I am not horrible and I am not going to hurt them in anyway.
And while I will agree it is a technical misnomer for me to say I am a woman it drastically misrepresents the person I am to just say I am a man. This is why I specify transgender woman or transwoman. For a long time I simply identified as a crossdresser and many people like myself are more comfortable with thus term but modern accepted terminology for various reasons is transgender and there is a connotation with the term crossdresser that it is part-time, i.e. sometimes they will dress and act like the gender associated with their sex.
Honestly it would be more comfortable for me to simply say I am a woman and not give y'all any reason to question my definition of myself, but I am not comfortable doing that because it might later shock someone if they met me and found I do not fit their definition of a woman, and also it will hopefully help normalize transgenderism if I am up front about who I am and hopefully one day people like me will be accepted without questioning or discomfort or need to explain who and what they are.
I kind of wish I had just said I was a woman, because I feel like people are becoming upset but I thought trans people were more understood in this day and age. I mean we have quite a few famous trans people in our popular culture and two of the gender options in the profiles of this website are transwoman and transman...
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The Gulf is something that has to be leaped, and leaped alone, stripped of all hindering burdens, in faith. It is thus one of the crisis points of spiritual progress because of the great temptation to turn back from the unknown to the apparent safety of known things, and to succumb to this temptation is to lose all the fruits of past endeavor. --G. Knight; A Practical Guide to Kabbalistic Symbolism
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psi
TOAST N' JAM
Registered: 09/05/99
Posts: 31,569
Loc: 613
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That seems pretty reasonable. With bathrooms I'm not sure why people find it so important to have sex-segregated hand washing areas. In a typical public bathroom there is no nudity in shared areas anyway. Except in relation to urinals sometimes I guess.
I don't think anyone seems upset, but one or two people may be trying to push your buttons a bit.
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basqueshaman
Todays scapegoat
Registered: 04/01/11
Posts: 6,258
Loc: Washington State 
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Quote:
LilithVelkor said:
Well everything that you said is true and I don't disagree technically, the problem is the expectations people associate with sex.
When I first came out of the closet and started dressing and acting like a woman 24/7 I kept using the men's restroom out of respect for women because 1. I was physically male and 2. I am attracted to women.
For a while it was not a big deal although every now and then a man would walk into the restroom and see me in there and assume he had walked into the wrong restroom and then walked out and into the women's restroom without even looking at the signs again. Obviously they were somewhat angry with me on a few of these occasions.
Then I started experiencing men getting really angry as soon as they saw me in the men's restroom. They would yell at me "Where am I supposed to go to the bathroom if YOU are in here?!" or just "Get out of the men's restroom!?"
There were several times that while I was going to the bathroom men would peer at me through the crack between the door and the stall.
It ultimately made more sense for me to use the women's restroom even though I am male because men's expectations of how a man should dress and act made them threatening and violent towards me when I tried to simply accept the fact that my clothing and mannerisms make me no less male than anyone else with male body parts.
I happily use a third-party restroom whenever they are available but such facilities are rare. Also many people think it is an unreasonable request to include gender neutral restrooms in public facilities.
I have honestly gone outside and peed behind trees before just because it is so uncomfortable for me to use public restrooms, but I could be arrested for doing so.
Should I have to dress and act like a man just because some people get angry if anyone who has a penis doesn't dress and act like a man? A lot of people in our society pretend to be something that they are not just because other people will become very abusive towards them for not fitting the mold...
Another consideration is I have boobs. If I were arrested and put in a men's jail because I am technically male do you think I would be safe in there? Would it be fair on myself and the other inmates to put a person with boobs in a men's jail? Would it be unreasonable for me to request to shower separately from the other men? If I found myself incarcerated I would request solitary confinement for my own safety and to be respectful of the more typically masculine men in the facility, but I honestly don't know if that request would be respected. I could lie and say I was suicidal but then their protocol is to try to "cure" me so I could be taken out of solitary confinement asap.
You might say that this is my fault for not just dressing and acting like a man, but I have every right to be the person that I am most comfortable being. I tried being a typical man for a long time and was ultimately very depressed and suicidal which is an experience many transgender people have when they can't be themselves.
Should I live a lie because society can't accept the fact that not everyone who is physically male wants to dress and act masculine?
Ultimately I decided that however uncomfortable it might be at first the only way society would stop being uncomfortable with people like me was for me to just be myself and let them see that I am not horrible and I am not going to hurt them in anyway.
And while I will agree it is a technical misnomer for me to say I am a woman it drastically misrepresents the person I am to just say I am a man. This is why I specify transgender woman or transwoman. For a long time I simply identified as a crossdresser and many people like myself are more comfortable with thus term but modern accepted terminology for various reasons is transgender and there is a connotation with the term crossdresser that it is part-time, i.e. sometimes they will dress and act like the gender associated with their sex.
Honestly it would be more comfortable for me to simply say I am a woman and not give y'all any reason to question my definition of myself, but I am not comfortable doing that because it might later shock someone if they met me and found I do not fit their definition of a woman, and also it will hopefully help normalize transgenderism if I am up front about who I am and hopefully one day people like me will be accepted without questioning or discomfort or need to explain who and what they are.
I kind of wish I had just said I was a woman, because I feel like people are becoming upset but I thought trans people were more understood in this day and age. I mean we have quite a few famous trans people in our popular culture and two of the gender options in the profiles of this website are transwoman and transman...
So are you saying people are cookie cutter or snowflakes?
I believe that personal perspective plays a huge role in this fuckery, look just because i light a stick of dynamite and try and hand it to you doesn't mean you have to take it, basically taking the proverbial blockbuster and blaming the loss of life or limb one the one passing it is the same as acceptance instead of tolerance of the whole expectations you seam to embrace by denouncing.
Look do your own thing, thats honestly why discussion of ones physically self via message boards is kind of pointless to begin with. If i didn't sate my sexual orientation or my physical sex or gender would it actually be a subject of issue?
Look flat out the only ones that are going to care are ones who possibly want to fuck you, leave anytime physical in the physical world, this here be the land of the psyche.
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basqueshaman
Todays scapegoat
Registered: 04/01/11
Posts: 6,258
Loc: Washington State
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As far bathrooms go most guys could give a shitless if someone who appears to be the possessor of a vagina enters a mens bathroom, its kinda more the person with the penis going into the females bathroom that bothers people. 
Best solution is have multiple single bathrooms in all facilities to oviod this fucktardary completely. Look i understand that you see yourself as a female, but unless you go through the surgeries and whatnot isn't your dl or id going to contradict that? And if you look like a female how is anyone going to know unless they are preforming crotch checks? Either way not my problem. Maybe depends adult dippers could be a viable solution to the transsexual bathroom issues as it all depends on if your passable or not
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LemurLemur
Pray for Boog
Registered: 01/30/17
Posts: 6,004
Loc: Drinking on the roof
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You dont wanna be put on suicide watch, theyll take your clothes an throw u in a cell with a hole in the ground with no blankets or mat, they wont give u toliet paper either thats why u hear storys about people rubbing shit on the windows with bare hands its cause theyre mad the guards refuse to give tp.
If you want administrative segregation just throw a few chairs and make a scene, just dont hit any1 with a chair, the inmates will like you more in the platonic way.
With the holding cell just point to some schmuck and say they have a problem with u from the street and you fear for your safety.
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  (when my data is fast play Lemur in chess at chess.com)[ [gradient:#D40B29,#18C418]Any1 expecting a trade from me i havent forgot about you pinky promise, i fr promise shits just shit rt now[/gradient]
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basqueshaman
Todays scapegoat
Registered: 04/01/11
Posts: 6,258
Loc: Washington State
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Quote:
LemurLemur said:
You dont wanna be put on suicide watch, theyll take your clothes an throw u in a cell with a hole in the ground with no blankets or mat, they wont give u toliet paper either thats why u hear storys about people rubbing shit on the windows with bare hands its cause theyre mad the guards refuse to give tp.
If you want administrative segregation just throw a few chairs and make a scene, just dont hit any1 with a chair, the inmates will like you more in the platonic way.
With the holding cell just point to some schmuck and say they have a problem with u from the street and you fear for your safety.
Yeah rape is about fear and power not sex, its more i can stick it in and you gotta take it than, man this feels good.
You gotta worry about rapist no matter where you are, and girly/petite people are typically more of a target as a rapist wants as little fight as possible.
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LemurLemur
Pray for Boog
Registered: 01/30/17
Posts: 6,004
Loc: Drinking on the roof
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Im not a rapist so i cant comment on the psychology behind it but it always to seems to be the dirty scummy ppl or the macho gangsters that turn gay, the more thuggish a dude is the quicker he turns gay.
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(when my data is fast play Lemur in chess at chess.com)[ [gradient:#D40B29,#18C418]Any1 expecting a trade from me i havent forgot about you pinky promise, i fr promise shits just shit rt now[/gradient]
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LilithVelkor
Stranger Than Fiction
Registered: 03/23/18
Posts: 37
Loc: The Bay
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Good advice. Thanks.
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The Gulf is something that has to be leaped, and leaped alone, stripped of all hindering burdens, in faith. It is thus one of the crisis points of spiritual progress because of the great temptation to turn back from the unknown to the apparent safety of known things, and to succumb to this temptation is to lose all the fruits of past endeavor. --G. Knight; A Practical Guide to Kabbalistic Symbolism
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LilithVelkor
Stranger Than Fiction
Registered: 03/23/18
Posts: 37
Loc: The Bay
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Quote:
basqueshaman said:
So are you saying people are cookie cutter or snowflakes?
I believe that personal perspective plays a huge role in this fuckery, look just because i light a stick of dynamite and try and hand it to you doesn't mean you have to take it, basically taking the proverbial blockbuster and blaming the loss of life or limb one the one passing it is the same as acceptance instead of tolerance of the whole expectations you seam to embrace by denouncing.
Look do your own thing, thats honestly why discussion of ones physically self via message boards is kind of pointless to begin with. If i didn't sate my sexual orientation or my physical sex or gender would it actually be a subject of issue?
Look flat out the only ones that are going to care are ones who possibly want to fuck you, leave anytime physical in the physical world, this here be the land of the psyche.
Yeah, I shouldn't have mentioned it. In retrospect it was pointless and did cause a scene I would rather have avoided.
Oh well, you know what they say: hindsight is 20/20
--------------------
The Gulf is something that has to be leaped, and leaped alone, stripped of all hindering burdens, in faith. It is thus one of the crisis points of spiritual progress because of the great temptation to turn back from the unknown to the apparent safety of known things, and to succumb to this temptation is to lose all the fruits of past endeavor. --G. Knight; A Practical Guide to Kabbalistic Symbolism
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basqueshaman
Todays scapegoat
Registered: 04/01/11
Posts: 6,258
Loc: Washington State
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Quote:
LilithVelkor said:
Good advice. Thanks.
Your most welcome
Im actually happy to be able to be of help
Quote:
LemurLemur said:
Im not a rapist so i cant comment on the psychology behind it but it always to seems to be the dirty scummy ppl or the macho gangsters that turn gay, the more thuggish a dude is the quicker he turns gay.
You dont have to be a rapist to understand the mentally of one.
Just like its not hard to understand the mentally of a theif, im not talking about someone who will steal necessities of life, but of someone stealing out of greed the basis for theft. The truth about the whole thuggish bullshit is its a persona and nothing more, often times macho attitudes are a byproduct of closted homosexuality being repressed. Ofcourse put someone in prison and they typically act different than they do in the streets.
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basqueshaman
Todays scapegoat
Registered: 04/01/11
Posts: 6,258
Loc: Washington State
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Quote:
LilithVelkor said:
Quote:
basqueshaman said:
So are you saying people are cookie cutter or snowflakes?
I believe that personal perspective plays a huge role in this fuckery, look just because i light a stick of dynamite and try and hand it to you doesn't mean you have to take it, basically taking the proverbial blockbuster and blaming the loss of life or limb one the one passing it is the same as acceptance instead of tolerance of the whole expectations you seam to embrace by denouncing.
Look do your own thing, thats honestly why discussion of ones physically self via message boards is kind of pointless to begin with. If i didn't sate my sexual orientation or my physical sex or gender would it actually be a subject of issue?
Look flat out the only ones that are going to care are ones who possibly want to fuck you, leave anytime physical in the physical world, this here be the land of the psyche.
Yeah, I shouldn't have mentioned it. In retrospect it was pointless and did cause a scene I would rather have avoided.
Oh well, you know what they say: hindsight is 20/20
Its ok remember everyone makes mistakes, i do you do and so does every mother fucking body.
Know your amonst a mixer of people, but most people on the shroomery will love you, but just cause your loved doesn't make you immune to trolling and being picked on. Welcome home.
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LilithVelkor
Stranger Than Fiction
Registered: 03/23/18
Posts: 37
Loc: The Bay
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Thanks. I actually think the conversation went a lot better than it could have, and I'm impressed that most of y'all were pretty accepting and even the ones who were not so much were still pretty cool about it.
But yeah, if I hadn't mentioned it, it wouldn't have been a thing.
Lesson learned.
Yeah this place is awesome, though. I'm glad to be here.
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The Gulf is something that has to be leaped, and leaped alone, stripped of all hindering burdens, in faith. It is thus one of the crisis points of spiritual progress because of the great temptation to turn back from the unknown to the apparent safety of known things, and to succumb to this temptation is to lose all the fruits of past endeavor. --G. Knight; A Practical Guide to Kabbalistic Symbolism
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 flugelizor
Furious ball of nothing
Registered: 11/16/08
Posts: 2,187
Loc: Western NY
Last seen: 31 minutes, 26 seconds
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Welcome! 
I, for one am glad you shared.
You seem like an open and thoughtful person.
It can't be easy with the round peg / square hole feelings.
But, yeah, keep your soft underbelly protected, there are wolves about!
(Especially in OTD- Off Topic Discussion Forum.)
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basqueshaman
Todays scapegoat
Registered: 04/01/11
Posts: 6,258
Loc: Washington State
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Quote:
flugelizor said:
Welcome!
I, for one am glad you shared.
You seem like an open and thoughtful person.
It can't be easy with the round peg / square hole feelings.
But, yeah, keep your soft underbelly protected, there are wolves about!
(Especially in OTD- Off Topic Discussion Forum.)
Always keep in mind the round peg can easily fit through a square hole so long as the dementions are adequate.and vice versa. Yet as the old Japanese addage goes the nail that sticks out the most will be destined to be the first to hammered down
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