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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: 'it's natural!' [Re: quinn]
    #25053705 - 03/10/18 05:24 AM (6 years, 10 days ago)

some fixed ideas (right or wrong) are membership to select societies, like the guild of whole earth catalog-ers.

this aspect of group membership is very useful in marketing, in defining a sector of the population and determining the language to use when selling them products or presidential candidates.


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OfflinePeyote Road
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Re: 'it's natural!' [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25055514 - 03/11/18 01:26 AM (6 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
thinking that way, is full of prejudice, ignorance, and tricks.
the lab and modern man are not fundamentally inimical to nature or life, and ancient concepts were more geared to plunder, anti-intellectualism, and enslavement, and these traditions color the ancient healing arts as well (they also remain foundational to big pharma - so keep your own counsel on that).

you can find enlightenment and salvation in nature, but not through prejudice, generalization or anti-intellectual luddism.




How so? I still think natural vs synthetic is a meaningful distinction in terms of pharmacological agents. I would wager that if you gave me 20 random substances double blind, 10 natural plant substances and 10 invented in a lab I would be able to tell which were natural and which were made in the lab.


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The path of the herbalist is to open ourselves to nature in an innocent and pure way. SHe in turn will open her bounty and reward us with many valuable secrets. May the earth bless you. - Michael Tierra

Edited by Peyote Road (03/11/18 01:27 AM)

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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: 'it's natural!' [Re: Green7Alchemist]
    #25055592 - 03/11/18 05:21 AM (6 years, 9 days ago)

Just for the aluminium,
as far as I see, if someone drunk from a spring which is naturally full of aluminium or some other heavy metal (washed out from the rock on the way up), then he will die a natural death.
But if it was washed into the water by some human activity, like mining for example, then one could say he died an unnatural cause :wink:

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: 'it's natural!' [Re: Peyote Road]
    #25055670 - 03/11/18 06:55 AM (6 years, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Peyote Road said:
Quote:

redgreenvines said:
thinking that way, is full of prejudice, ignorance, and tricks.
the lab and modern man are not fundamentally inimical to nature or life, and ancient concepts were more geared to plunder, anti-intellectualism, and enslavement, and these traditions color the ancient healing arts as well (they also remain foundational to big pharma - so keep your own counsel on that).

you can find enlightenment and salvation in nature, but not through prejudice, generalization or anti-intellectual luddism.




How so? I still think natural vs synthetic is a meaningful distinction in terms of pharmacological agents. I would wager that if you gave me 20 random substances double blind, 10 natural plant substances and 10 invented in a lab I would be able to tell which were natural and which were made in the lab.



Great,
the Wager is the first step in the scientific process, although it is usually put forth as an Hypothesis...
then you define your method and equipment to test your hypothesis...
record the repeatable steps so others can prove the hypothesis as well...
finally report your findings and collect all the money for your well thought out plan.


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: 'it's natural!' [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25057593 - 03/12/18 02:26 AM (6 years, 9 days ago)

So is nature natural?

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: 'it's natural!' [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #25057690 - 03/12/18 05:05 AM (6 years, 8 days ago)

in a manner of speaking, naturally!


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: 'it's natural!' [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25059485 - 03/12/18 11:16 PM (6 years, 8 days ago)

So then what parts are unnatural?

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: 'it's natural!' [Re: BrendanFlock] * 1
    #25060075 - 03/13/18 08:35 AM (6 years, 7 days ago)

parts of the whole are natural - no parts are unnatural.
the whole concept of "natural vs unnatural" is kooky - it's a poor fit for discriminating between:
  • organic farming versus industrial farming with cheap industrial fertilizers.
  • cotton, wool, and hemp versus nylon, orlon, rayon and other plastic fibers.
  • theater versus television.
  • camping in a tent versus renting a villa.
  • walking versus driving.
  • etc.


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: 'it's natural!' [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25060643 - 03/13/18 02:01 PM (6 years, 7 days ago)

Why not say 'human' is 'cause' of 'unnatural' ?
Is there anything unnatural not caused by human ?
And then, what ability is it, that makes it unnnatural ? The brain (-functions) ? The evolution ? Quality and quantity ? Of what exactly and in what relation ? Why and how ?
A lot of questions behind, I guess...

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: 'it's natural!' [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #25060810 - 03/13/18 03:07 PM (6 years, 7 days ago)

this is all about marketing and influence, so it's basically an unclear and demonizing abusive negation of the positive term "nature" which includes all life and death.

the concept "unnatural" is like the concept of the devil.


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: 'it's natural!' [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25060904 - 03/13/18 03:41 PM (6 years, 7 days ago)

lol nah.
I just won't go away with saying that word is useless or devilish.
It is the description, for what DQ and I claimed it for. I don't want to condemn it for that what it is, but only want to find out, what constitutes it like that.
And then, of course, find ways so integrate it back into ourselves again and find the reasons why we derived and such, you know :sun:

Edited by BlueCoyote (03/14/18 11:48 AM)

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OfflineAhimsa
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Re: 'it's natural!' [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #25061234 - 03/13/18 06:15 PM (6 years, 7 days ago)

Remind me of the attempt I made dividing the world in 'natural' as in not man-made and 'unnatural' ie made with natural things by man.
But that doesn't make one or the other better. It just helped me to see how far down I have to go to reach the 'natural' in whatever is unnatural.
Like GM food is not natural but the atoms the molecules are made from are. So, the argument would hinge upon the unnatural molecules being ok to us or not...naturaly

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: 'it's natural!' [Re: Ahimsa]
    #25062323 - 03/14/18 09:22 AM (6 years, 6 days ago)

any time you work with marketing terms, and "natural" has become one, you are operating with a cognitive disability.

I recommend you look at each issue in it's own light, and base your decisions on that, and stop trying to fit the manipulative terms derived from marketing or politics such as "natural" over top of what is clear to you through your senses and your knowledge of sciences and history.


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