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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Teresa May takes Russia to task over chemical weapon attack on British soil [Re: Stable Genius] * 1
    #27326911 - 05/28/21 04:11 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Fair point


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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: Teresa May takes Russia to task over chemical weapon attack on British soil [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27326918 - 05/28/21 04:18 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Where did Aaron Mate say an inspector agreed to change his story?  I watched the video twice and I missed that.



At the 28 minute mark. Sounds like his story was changed under duress but he did agree to change it.


Quote:


Even if we agree that we still don't know what ultimately happened, that means we can agree we don't know it was chemical attack.  THAT'S the problem.



Yes that IS the problem. I'll have to go back through one of the articles I was reading that said the timber under the bed had a high concentration of chlorine... but then found in another article that the nozzle on that cylinder was intact.

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Teresa May takes Russia to task over chemical weapon attack on British soil [Re: Stable Genius]
    #27327099 - 05/28/21 07:01 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Stable Genius said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Where did Aaron Mate say an inspector agreed to change his story?  I watched the video twice and I missed that.



At the 28 minute mark. Sounds like his story was changed under duress but he did agree to change it.



Here's what was said from 27:34 - 28:47

"They (high level OPCW officials) say that the bulk of the investigation into Douma was conducted in the last 6 months of the investigation, after the dissenting inspectors were out of the picture.  And what I've pointed out is that that claim is false.  The dissenting inspectors were out of the picture because they were sidelined, and also the key dissenting inpector, Inpector B, he left the OPCW because his term expired in September of 2018.  But the claim that the bulk of the analytical work happened after that is demonstrably false.  And in my presentation I showed that simply by comparing all of the citations and facts that are listed in the OPCW's own reports.  The original report, the one that got censored by unknown OPCW officials, and the final report, the one that was published, as well as the interim report that came out in July 2018, which was basically a compromise where Inspector B prevented them from putting out all those false claims, but in exchange, he was forced to basically remove some of the key scientific findings, with the promise that those findings would return for the final report, which of course they did not."

So he didn't agree to change his story.  He agreed to allow the OPCW to omit key findings from the report (that there was no scientific evidence of a chemical weapons attack), in exchange for them removing their false claims, with the promise that those scientific findings would return in the final report, which they did not.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: Teresa May takes Russia to task over chemical weapon attack on British soil [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #27327261 - 05/28/21 09:33 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

To paraphrase Aaron Mate -
"The original report, the one that got censored by unknown OPCW officials, and the final report, the one that was published, as well as the interim report that came out in July 2018, which was basically a compromise where Inspector B prevented them from putting out all those false claims, but in exchange, he was forced to basically remove some of the key scientific findings, with the promise that those findings would return for the final report, which of course they did not."




Yes that's the statement.
Seems illogical that he agreed to remove some of the key findings then expect them to be in the final report, just sayin, but hey I have no idea how these things are put together.
It reeks of political mischief though, for whatever reason/s.

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Teresa May takes Russia to task over chemical weapon attack on British soil [Re: Stable Genius]
    #27327268 - 05/28/21 09:44 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

It seems illogical that they would remove the key findings and replace them with false statements to begin with, so removing all of the false statements seems like a very good first step, but hey I have no idea how these things are put together either.  :shrug:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: Teresa May takes Russia to task over chemical weapon attack on British soil [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #27327322 - 05/28/21 10:41 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

It seems illogical that they would remove the key findings and replace them with false statements to begin with, so removing all of the false statements seems like a very good first step




I guess that's another way to look at it.

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Offlinewolf8312
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Re: Teresa May takes Russia to task over chemical weapon attack on British soil [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #27327463 - 05/29/21 02:50 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

Stable Genius said:
I get your point but this incident led to the U.K France and the U.S. bombing another country.
That's like you saying does it really matter why Kissinger bombed Cambodia. cmon




We know why he (we) did that.

But we also know that the pretext of that entire war was based on a lie (that NVA patrol boats fired on Navy ships in the gulf of Tonkin).

Imagine we were discussing the gulf of Tonkin affair right now instead of Syrian chemical weapons attacks. When that discussion was happening the narrative was centered around what bad guys the NVA were, and how much of a threat they posed to our troops, the region, and their own people.

Nobody is saying that Assad is a saint, but I dunno man after like 20 examples of us being lied into a war it might be a good idea and pump the brakes, consider the consequences.

Let’s say best case scenario we kill zero civilians and somehow oust Assad. What then? What happened in Libya? Iraq? People are so giddy to have the moral high ground they’ll start arguing on behalf of the CIA, to an end that winds up being way worse for those innocent civilians that they’re so concerned about.


I get that it’s important to know the facts, but here’s the most obvious fact: the only danger of Assad losing his control of Syria (and the war) at that point was to commit some war crime so egregious it gave the US backed coalition an excuse to invade. Assad is smart, he’s not gonna gas his own people when he’s winning the damn war.  Either way I guess my point is we probably won’t ever know what happened because there are no neutral parties here. Both sides will fabricate evidence and lie to make the other side look guilty so why even participate in the charade?





I think Russia knows it doesn't really need to fabricate lies about the US as the truth itself not only makes much more effective propaganda but is their only real option going up against such a powerful and ubiquitous propaganda machine.

They know the real purpose of the War On Terror and who really controls and funds ISIS and moved into Syria knowing full well it was intentionally entering into an indirect confrontation with the United States itself.

Of course, the US couldn't very well protest Russia fighting the very ISIS terrorists that they themselves were supposed to be fighting and so the predictable and well-worn false flags were hoisted up again for the same tired old benevolent army of liberation and lord of the rings good vs evil crap for the benefit of the US public.


--------------------
"I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of."

Pennywise the dancing clown


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: Teresa May takes Russia to task over chemical weapon attack on British soil [Re: wolf8312]
    #27343998 - 06/11/21 05:49 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

I always considered Putin smart, although evil. He's not sounding so shrewd lately. In the last couple days the party line has gone from the predictable, there is nothing political about the prosecution of Navalny; it was purely criminal, to we are outlawing Navalny's supporters/protest group as terrorists, which effectively means none of them can run for political office. How political does that sound?

This other story from a week and half ago made me laugh. So in anticipation of their upcoming summit, Putin said he will call out Biden's hypocrisy on criticizing Russia's human rights/Navalny situation because of the Biden administration's violating the human rights of the capital rioters. He is sounding Trump-like, which is quite a few steps down in intelligence.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Teresa May takes Russia to task over chemical weapon attack on British soil [Re: Brian Jones] * 1
    #27344114 - 06/11/21 08:16 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Important to note that Navalny is considerably to the right of Putin. I’m not sure Putin is a true believer, or has any serious global aspirations. He was a virtual nobody in Russian politics until the post-soviet oligarchs handpicked him after the buffoon Yeltsin. But he is smart, smart enough to know that even though America’s hegemony has receded, there isn’t much room for Russia to expand. Crimea was a win for him, but I think like 99% of the ‘Russia is our geopolitical nemesis’ rhetoric is just crusty boomers convincing everyone the Cold War is still happening. Putin often does some dumb shit, but, like trump, he’s gotta appeal to his domestic base.


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Invisiblechopstick
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Re: Teresa May takes Russia to task over chemical weapon attack on British soil [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #27344312 - 06/11/21 11:27 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Putin was allowed to become president in the first place in Russia because the local billionaire oligarchs whom were criminally looting the country and sending all its wealth overseas thought he was just another meek puppet whom they would control while they continued looting the country dry.

Turns out he was playing them the whole time and he swiftly cracked down on them, shutting down their operations and arresting them. Those who weren't arrested got up and fled the country. The Russian economy as well as standard of living improved dramatically in the following years thanks in big part to this. This caused Putin's popularity to skyrocket, and he became something of a hero in the eyes of the common man.

On top of that, he reformed the Russian military and led them to victory in the second Chechen war against the CIA-backed jihadists in Chechnya. So on top of being a people's hero he became a war hero also. And now today the Russian military is one of the most formidable on the planet with advanced hypersonic missile & air-defense technology that is decades ahead of the US.

Navalny is literally a puppet doing the bidding of the ones controlling him. He is the equivalent of a foreign agent whom is being used with the end-goal of regime change in mind. Viewed in that context, he is essentially a paid enemy operative. A man who literally allows himself to be fake-poisoned just so they can falsely pin it on Putin himself. In reality, Putin doesn't even have to do much about him because his support is so low among the Russian population that everyone pretty much just ignores his antics most of the time. His "activities" have a greater effect on western audiences than it does among actual Russians, and that's a fact. But with all that said, Putin is certainly justified in whatever punitive actions he takes against him, because Navalny truly is a traitor working for western intelligence agencies and regime change groups.

It's nothing more than a strategic psyop and I honestly feel sorry for anyone who supports Navalny because they are being badly misled and are knee-deep in a sea of delusions enabled by these petty false flag operations.

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Offlinekoods
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Re: Teresa May takes Russia to task over chemical weapon attack on British soil [Re: chopstick]
    #27344439 - 06/11/21 01:19 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

:bootlicker:


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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OfflinePsilynut2
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Re: Teresa May takes Russia to task over chemical weapon attack on British soil [Re: chopstick]
    #27344447 - 06/11/21 01:27 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

And now today the Russian military is one of the most formidable on the planet with advanced hypersonic missile & air-defense technology that is decades ahead of the US.




  I'm sure all of the poor people in Russia will be thrilled about  that if we go to war and every square meter of Moscow gets set on fire and blown to pieces in 2 min .


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Teresa May takes Russia to task over chemical weapon attack on British soil [Re: koods] * 2
    #27344653 - 06/11/21 04:38 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
:bootlicker:




Biden has more blood on his hands than Putin sir


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: Teresa May takes Russia to task over chemical weapon attack on British soil [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #27344799 - 06/11/21 07:01 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Important to note that Navalny is considerably to the right of Putin. I’m not sure Putin is a true believer, or has any serious global aspirations. He was a virtual nobody in Russian politics until the post-soviet oligarchs handpicked him after the buffoon Yeltsin. But he is smart, smart enough to know that even though America’s hegemony has receded, there isn’t much room for Russia to expand. Crimea was a win for him, but I think like 99% of the ‘Russia is our geopolitical nemesis’ rhetoric is just crusty boomers convincing everyone the Cold War is still happening. Putin often does some dumb shit, but, like trump, he’s gotta appeal to his domestic base.




I don't think Navalny is to the right of Putin at all, but he did hold some unsavory right wing positions in the past, but that was quite a while ago.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,

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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: Teresa May takes Russia to task over chemical weapon attack on British soil [Re: chopstick]
    #27344802 - 06/11/21 07:04 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

chopstick said:
Putin was allowed to become president in the first place in Russia because the local billionaire oligarchs whom were criminally looting the country and sending all its wealth overseas thought he was just another meek puppet whom they would control while they continued looting the country dry.

Turns out he was playing them the whole time and he swiftly cracked down on them, shutting down their operations and arresting them. Those who weren't arrested got up and fled the country. The Russian economy as well as standard of living improved dramatically in the following years thanks in big part to this. This caused Putin's popularity to skyrocket, and he became something of a hero in the eyes of the common man.

On top of that, he reformed the Russian military and led them to victory in the second Chechen war against the CIA-backed jihadists in Chechnya. So on top of being a people's hero he became a war hero also. And now today the Russian military is one of the most formidable on the planet with advanced hypersonic missile & air-defense technology that is decades ahead of the US.

Navalny is literally a puppet doing the bidding of the ones controlling him. He is the equivalent of a foreign agent whom is being used with the end-goal of regime change in mind. Viewed in that context, he is essentially a paid enemy operative. A man who literally allows himself to be fake-poisoned just so they can falsely pin it on Putin himself. In reality, Putin doesn't even have to do much about him because his support is so low among the Russian population that everyone pretty much just ignores his antics most of the time. His "activities" have a greater effect on western audiences than it does among actual Russians, and that's a fact. But with all that said, Putin is certainly justified in whatever punitive actions he takes against him, because Navalny truly is a traitor working for western intelligence agencies and regime change groups.

It's nothing more than a strategic psyop and I honestly feel sorry for anyone who supports Navalny because they are being badly misled and are knee-deep in a sea of delusions enabled by these petty false flag operations.




Putin may have cracked down on some billionaire oligarchs but he has close relations with many others and they are his power base.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Teresa May takes Russia to task over chemical weapon attack on British soil [Re: Brian Jones] * 1
    #27344985 - 06/11/21 11:08 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Yeah, a lot of his “grassroots” support is just billionaire astroturf, not too different than what happens in the states.


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: Teresa May takes Russia to task over chemical weapon attack on British soil [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #27345239 - 06/12/21 07:53 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

It's not very different except here they have to have the appearance of not being gangsters. But it's only an appearance, or maybe one generation to wash the criminal money clean.

Some or the 'respectable' ones who don't get called criminal are probably much worse all things considered.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,

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Offlinekoods
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Re: Teresa May takes Russia to task over chemical weapon attack on British soil [Re: Brian Jones]
    #27345308 - 06/12/21 09:35 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)



--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Invisiblechopstick
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Re: Teresa May takes Russia to task over chemical weapon attack on British soil [Re: koods] * 2
    #27346932 - 06/13/21 03:28 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Putin delivered remarks comparing the US to the Soviet Union a few days ago:




Regardless of what you may think about Putin personally, he is right. The modern-day US is managing a vast empire and is in many ways, following in the steps of the Soviet Union. This empire will eventually collapse, as is the fate of all empires - a fact which has been proven time and time again throughout history. Our empire will be no different. It is no more "special" or "exceptional" than any empire that came before it. To think otherwise is sheer arrogance.

Russia learned this lesson painfully and has taken no steps to repeat it, other than maybe the Crimean adventure (but Crimea could also be considered a vital national security issue for Russia) . Americans need to learn this lesson as well, for the good of all.

America needs to give up the empire. The whole world would be better off for it. 

Indeed, the vast majority of humans on this Earth will cheer the day it falls, for it is this empire which has become the biggest roadblock that presently exists to world peace.

There is no comparison between modern-day Russia and the US in terms of empire. Russia is operating in a handful of nations, all with political agreements in place to keep it legal by standards of international law. The US on the other hand is militarily occupying half the planet and subjugating/sabotaging dozens of countries that don't want to "play ball" simultaneously while subjecting its citizens to a constant non-stop endless torrent of propaganda, and blatantly ignoring international law the vast majority of the time (it doesn't apply to us because we're "exceptional".)

Love Putin or hate him, he is right. When an empire becomes bloated, unnecessary & hypocritical, its continued existence becomes a hindrance. A global parasite that feeds off the human race. All empires are inherently ethically, morally and spiritually corrupt. And not only that, but the existence of said empire does not benefit the actual American people in any way - it benefits only the top 1% of the top 1%. On the contrary, it puts Americans at risk, not only because they are sent to die and throw their lives away for unworthy causes that only benefit the ultra-wealthy, but it also puts the entire nation at risk of nuclear annihilation due to the constant aggression and warmongering that an empire requires to maintain itself.

And this naturally puts the US in a much weaker position than Russia, until we finally develop the spiritual wisdom and strength necessary to give up the empire for good.

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Offlinewolf8312
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Re: Teresa May takes Russia to task over chemical weapon attack on British soil [Re: chopstick] * 1
    #27350230 - 06/16/21 05:33 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

chopstick said:
Putin delivered remarks comparing the US to the Soviet Union a few days ago:




Regardless of what you may think about Putin personally, he is right. The modern-day US is managing a vast empire and is in many ways, following in the steps of the Soviet Union. This empire will eventually collapse, as is the fate of all empires - a fact which has been proven time and time again throughout history. Our empire will be no different. It is no more "special" or "exceptional" than any empire that came before it. To think otherwise is sheer arrogance.

Russia learned this lesson painfully and has taken no steps to repeat it, other than maybe the Crimean adventure (but Crimea could also be considered a vital national security issue for Russia) . Americans need to learn this lesson as well, for the good of all.

America needs to give up the empire. The whole world would be better off for it. 

Indeed, the vast majority of humans on this Earth will cheer the day it falls, for it is this empire which has become the biggest roadblock that presently exists to world peace.

There is no comparison between modern-day Russia and the US in terms of empire. Russia is operating in a handful of nations, all with political agreements in place to keep it legal by standards of international law. The US on the other hand is militarily occupying half the planet and subjugating/sabotaging dozens of countries that don't want to "play ball" simultaneously while subjecting its citizens to a constant non-stop endless torrent of propaganda, and blatantly ignoring international law the vast majority of the time (it doesn't apply to us because we're "exceptional".)

Love Putin or hate him, he is right. When an empire becomes bloated, unnecessary & hypocritical, its continued existence becomes a hindrance. A global parasite that feeds off the human race. All empires are inherently ethically, morally and spiritually corrupt. And not only that, but the existence of said empire does not benefit the actual American people in any way - it benefits only the top 1% of the top 1%. On the contrary, it puts Americans at risk, not only because they are sent to die and throw their lives away for unworthy causes that only benefit the ultra-wealthy, but it also puts the entire nation at risk of nuclear annihilation due to the constant aggression and warmongering that an empire requires to maintain itself.

And this naturally puts the US in a much weaker position than Russia, until we finally develop the spiritual wisdom and strength necessary to give up the empire for good.





Well said sir!


--------------------
"I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of."

Pennywise the dancing clown


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