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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Teresa May takes Russia to task over chemical weapon attack on British soil [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25749281 - 01/17/19 11:51 AM (5 years, 3 months ago)

Summing up the Official Claims in the Salisbury Poisonings: Weighed in the Balances and Found Wanting
Quote:

...consider this my attempt to show why any person endowed with powers of reason, logic and a commitment to facts and truth should not believe the case that has been put to the general public as to what happened in Salisbury on 4th March, 2018.




--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Teresa May takes Russia to task over chemical weapon attack on British soil [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25749339 - 01/17/19 12:41 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

The blogmire. Sounds legit. šŸ¤¦ā€ā™‚ļø


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NotSheekle said
ā€œif I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to herā€

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Teresa May takes Russia to task over chemical weapon attack on British soil [Re: koods]
    #25749384 - 01/17/19 01:13 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
The blogmire. Sounds legit. šŸ¤¦ā€ā™‚ļø



Now I think I know why you make so many stupid posts - you don't care about the facts.

If the establishment media has a theory, you take it as fact, but if another source actually presents facts, you dismiss it because of the source.

How about we debate the actual points in the article?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Teresa May takes Russia to task over chemical weapon attack on British soil [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25749390 - 01/17/19 01:17 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

I do care about the facts. I don’t care about some randos opinion on the internet. I also care that you are extremely biased and only preset information that clears Russia. Every time.

This is right up there with that moons of Alabama garbage

I don’t understand why you cover for a murderer like putin


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NotSheekle said
ā€œif I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to herā€

Edited by koods (01/17/19 01:24 PM)

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Re: Teresa May takes Russia to task over chemical weapon attack on British soil [Re: koods]
    #25749413 - 01/17/19 01:32 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

Just because Rob Slane writes for the Russian Insider doesn't make him biased, lol.
https://russia-insider.com/en/rob_slane

I like this jesus book of his, too. :rolleyes:
https://www.amazon.com/Rob-Slane/e/B0034Q3E3W
Quote:

...The purpose of this book is to put Christ back into Christmas, showing why the birth of the baby in the manger was such an earth-shattering event, and how it was the culmination of God s promises since the dawn of time to send a Saviour and a King to redeem his people and rule the world...






:paradis: . . . :peace:


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Offlinetwighead
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Re: Teresa May takes Russia to task over chemical weapon attack on British soil [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #25749925 - 01/17/19 06:37 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

Really who the fuck else would use a radioactive element to take out a former FSB agent?

If you know anything about geopolitics that should look like one of the most obvious answers...

The only other country capable of doing this, more or less - is the United States. And logically, why would they want to do that? That would be an extreme effort to frame the Russians - using a method that is not even readily accessible in the US.

Who had more to "gain" through that death? Also not the US.


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OfflineSulfurshelfsean
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Re: Teresa May takes Russia to task over chemical weapon attack on British soil [Re: twighead]
    #25750074 - 01/17/19 07:36 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

WWGCS? (What would George Carlin say)


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Teresa May takes Russia to task over chemical weapon attack on British soil [Re: koods]
    #25750574 - 01/18/19 01:31 AM (5 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
I do care about the facts. I don’t care about some randos opinion on the internet. I also care that you are extremely biased and only preset information that clears Russia. Every time.



I only present information that clears Russia because you keep make believing facts about Russia.  Every time.

If you presented something that wasn't make believe, I wouldn't defend Russia.

Quote:

koods said:
I don’t understand why you cover for a murderer like putin



How do you know he's a murderer?  Oh wait, we've had this discussion before - you don't know.  It's just more make believe from the King of Make Believe.

Quote:

koods said:
This is right up there with that moons of Alabama garbage



Yes, it it's exactly up there Moon of Alabama.

Now, let's play a game of "Fact or Make Believe".  Let's look at each of the 10 points in my article one by one to determine if they are fact, or make believe.

Let's start at the top with point #1.  Tell us whether any of the statements below from point #1 aren't factual:

Quote:

1. Verdict First; Investigation Afterwards

I was bound to be interested in this case from the off, since it took place in the city where I reside, just a few hundred yards from my home. But what really sparked my interest into writing about the case for so long, was the response of the British Government. Within 48 hours of the incident, before the investigation had properly begun, and before any of the facts of the matter had been established, certain Government ministers were already pointing the finger of blame at the Russian state.

Then on 12th and 14th March, little more than a week after the incident, and still with almost no facts of what actually happened having been established by investigators, the British Prime Minister, Theresa May, not only formally accused the Russian Government in the House of Commons, but also announced a series of responsive measures.

By far the most important point about the British Government’s initial accusations, is this: the accusation and verdict came over two weeks before the door handle theory was first mooted, and over three weeks before it was officially confirmed as the place of poisoning (on 28th March). This is VERY important.

In his only interview on the subject, the CEO of Porton Down, Gary Aitkenhead, stated that the organisation he heads was not able to identify the origin of the substance used. To do so, he said, required ā€œother inputs,ā€ some of them intelligence-based, that the Government had access to.

So what were these intelligence-based inputs? We have no need to speculate. This is what a Foreign Office spokesperson said of the reasoning behind the accusations:

ā€œAs the Prime Minister has set out in a number of statements to the Commons since 12 March, this includes our knowledge that within the last decade, Russia has investigated ways of delivering nerve agents — probably for assassination — and as part of this programme has produced and stockpiled small quantities of novichoks.ā€

As an aside, if this were really the case, then the British Government had an obligation to inform the OPCW of their intelligence, especially since the OPCW had declared in November 2017 that Russia had eliminated its entire stock of chemical weapons. So why did they not?

But the claim made by the spokesperson presents a glaring problem. What was this knowledge that ā€œRussia has investigated ways of delivering nerve agentsā€? The answer was of course subsequently given to us: the infamous alleged FSB manual, which apparently included details of how to deliver nerve agents via door handles. Yet if this is the case, it gives rise to the following question:

If the British Government came to the conclusion that the Russian Government was behind the attack by 14th March, and if this was based in part on the existence of intelligence showing the delivery of nerve agents via door handles, why was the door handle not identified as a possible place of poisoning until more than a week later, and only officially confirmed on 28th March?

That question will never be answered, of course, because to do so would … all together now … ā€œcompromise national security.ā€




--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Offlinetwighead
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Re: Teresa May takes Russia to task over chemical weapon attack on British soil [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25750586 - 01/18/19 01:46 AM (5 years, 3 months ago)

You ever been to Russia? You ever spoken to a lot of Russians? You ever studied Russian history? Do you know anything about Russia?

They are not happy people, their society is about as fucked up as exists on this planet. Of course yes many of them are very intelligent - but there is a huge void when it comes to the actual 'soul' of Russia... Especially after what happened over the last 90 years.

Look at their society, look at their conditions, they are fucking suffering over there and have been for a long time... So yeah, they have a propensity to take that inner hatred and turn it outward on the world. Take it from someone whose family only barely escaped the Holodomor and purging of over 20 million Ukrainians and Russians.

Of course, we should give them a chance to be better people and improve themselves - but as far as their concerned - they want to continue separation from the rest of the world, or impose their own dominance over their region so we need to treat them cautiously... Russian people can be amazing, but the Russian government? Fuck them.

Putin is incredibly good at what he does - so your average joe can't see through it... but I guarantee if you study your history and geopolitics you will be able to see what is actually happening.


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: Teresa May takes Russia to task over chemical weapon attack on British soil [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #25750607 - 01/18/19 02:29 AM (5 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Here is a nice new summary of why we don't know the Russians were behind the Skripal poisoning.

This is NOT good reading for the make believers here.

Summing up the Official Claims in the Salisbury Poisonings: Weighed in the Balances and Found Wanting




I'm not saying there is any proof the Russians did it. But in that link, if you click on the "About the Author", Rob Slane sounds like a nutjob to me.


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"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Teresa May takes Russia to task over chemical weapon attack on British soil [Re: twighead] * 1
    #25751629 - 01/18/19 02:41 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

twighead said:
You ever been to Russia? You ever spoken to a lot of Russians? You ever studied Russian history? Do you know anything about Russia?



Yes, I've been there several times and I even went to Crimea in 2017.  I've written about my travels extensively here in the political forum. Have you been to Russia lately?

Quote:

twighead said:
They are not happy people, their society is about as fucked up as exists on this planet. Of course yes many of them are very intelligent - but there is a huge void when it comes to the actual 'soul' of Russia... Especially after what happened over the last 90 years.



I was there last summer.  When was the last time you were there?

Quote:

twighead said:
Look at their society, look at their conditions, they are fucking suffering over there and have been for a long time... So yeah, they have a propensity to take that inner hatred and turn it outward on the world. Take it from someone whose family only barely escaped the Holodomor and purging of over 20 million Ukrainians and Rulissians.



Yes, things were pretty bad under Stalin, I agree.  But the Stalin era ended in 1953.

Quote:

twighead said:
Of course, we should give them a chance to be better people and improve themselves - but as far as their concerned - they want to continue separation from the rest of the world, or impose their own dominance over their region so we need to treat them cautiously... Russian people can be amazing, but the Russian government? Fuck them.

Putin is incredibly good at what he does - so your average joe can't see through it... but I guarantee if you study your history and geopolitics you will be able to see what is actually happening.



I'm good friends with a large contingent of people who lived a good part of their lives in Russia.  I'll take their views over someone who's lived in Russia... wait, how long did you live in Russia to be such an expert???


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Offlinekoods
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Re: Teresa May takes Russia to task over chemical weapon attack on British soil [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 2
    #25751649 - 01/18/19 02:56 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

When was the last time you were there?



Guess when I was there



My mom just reminded me of our trip. She mentioned how they seized all my magazines and newspapers when we entered the country.

The most run down, depressing place I’ve ever been. Everything was falling apart. My mom also brought up the hour long line for cucumbers. Lol. I snuck away from the government minders that made sure we didn’t stray away from the tour when everyone went to the ballet. I walked through the hideous housing project across the street from the big hotel (only for westerners) we were staying. The supermarket was empty except for canned goods. It was the middle of June and there was no fresh produce. Soviet communism was a disaster.


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NotSheekle said
ā€œif I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to herā€

Edited by koods (01/18/19 03:01 PM)

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Offlineqman
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Re: Teresa May takes Russia to task over chemical weapon attack on British soil [Re: twighead] * 1
    #25751661 - 01/18/19 03:02 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

twighead said:
You ever been to Russia? You ever spoken to a lot of Russians? You ever studied Russian history? Do you know anything about Russia?

They are not happy people, their society is about as fucked up as exists on this planet. Of course yes many of them are very intelligent - but there is a huge void when it comes to the actual 'soul' of Russia... Especially after what happened over the last 90 years.

Look at their society, look at their conditions, they are fucking suffering over there and have been for a long time... So yeah, they have a propensity to take that inner hatred and turn it outward on the world. Take it from someone whose family only barely escaped the Holodomor and purging of over 20 million Ukrainians and Russians.

Of course, we should give them a chance to be better people and improve themselves - but as far as their concerned - they want to continue separation from the rest of the world, or impose their own dominance over their region so we need to treat them cautiously... Russian people can be amazing, but the Russian government? Fuck them.

Putin is incredibly good at what he does - so your average joe can't see through it... but I guarantee if you study your history and geopolitics you will be able to see what is actually happening.




So the fact that Russia doesn't want to be dictated to by the global capitalists, it's problematic?

It's amazing, liberals are always screaming about the horrors of global capitalism, but once Trump got elected, the liberal gang jumped on the global capitalism and military industrial complex bandwagon without any hesitation.

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Re: Teresa May takes Russia to task over chemical weapon attack on British soil [Re: qman]
    #25751686 - 01/18/19 03:13 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

I really don’t get what Fal likes about Russia. It has the highest wealth disparity of any developed nation. It is very anti gay to the point where gay people are given refugee status in the US. Life expectancy is pathetic - African countries do better.

There is something seriously wrong with the culture of Russia. They can’t seem to be able to govern themselves without falling into an authoritarian situation.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
ā€œif I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to herā€

Edited by koods (01/18/19 03:16 PM)

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Teresa May takes Russia to task over chemical weapon attack on British soil [Re: koods] * 1
    #25751959 - 01/18/19 04:58 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
I really don’t get what Fal likes about Russia. It has the highest wealth disparity of any developed nation. It is very anti gay to the point where gay people are given refugee status in the US. Life expectancy is pathetic - African countries do better.

There is something seriously wrong with the culture of Russia. They can’t seem to be able to govern themselves without falling into an authoritarian situation.



Who said I like Russia?  I have zero interest in moving there.

Do you think not liking a country gives you the right to make believe things about them?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Offlinetwighead
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Re: Teresa May takes Russia to task over chemical weapon attack on British soil [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25752601 - 01/18/19 10:21 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

Ahh I get it - so you went and were resonant to and indoctrinated by their philosophy :lol:

You're correct in that I haven't personally been there, but my family has been in and out of there recently - as well as close friends who grew up in the USSR, and what they tell me is not concurrent with what you say - yours is the patriarchal view imposed by the RUS government - You wont find it in the actual intellectuals of Russia - say Garry Kasparov but the reality of that echoes all throughout history and these places that Russia is a dismal place to exist, a rigid society, and a very unhappy one. There are cities one can literally never enter or practically leave, that are polluted to hell and cold as fuck year round... They are stuck there.

Maybe some posh people on the coasts and in Moscow enjoy good lives in Russia - yes, I'm sure there are some great places, but in the interior - in the Siberia - in many of those cities... those people live out there and it fucking sucks and they can't leave it.

You'd also have to be pretty naive to believe that kind of hostile environment isn't going to create societal resentment and problems, it even does in Alaska and North Canada but to a much different less intense degree.


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Teresa May takes Russia to task over chemical weapon attack on British soil [Re: twighead] * 1
    #25752719 - 01/18/19 11:59 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

twighead said:
Ahh I get it - so you went and were resonant to and indoctrinated by their philosophy :lol:




Damned if you do, damned if you don't, Falcon lmao!

:cookiemonster:


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns

Edited by Bigbadwooof (01/18/19 11:59 PM)

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Teresa May takes Russia to task over chemical weapon attack on British soil [Re: twighead]
    #25752768 - 01/19/19 12:58 AM (5 years, 3 months ago)

Ya, no kidding.  :facepalm:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Teresa May takes Russia to task over chemical weapon attack on British soil [Re: twighead]
    #25752789 - 01/19/19 01:20 AM (5 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

twighead said:
You're correct in that I haven't personally been there, but my family has been in and out of there recently - as well as close friends who grew up in the USSR, and what they tell me is not concurrent with what you say - yours is the patriarchal view imposed by the RUS government



What do you mean "imposed by the URS government"?  That's nonsense.

Quote:

twighead said:
- You wont find it in the actual intellectuals of Russia - say Garry Kasparov but the reality of that echoes all throughout history and these places that Russia is a dismal place to exist, a rigid society, and a very unhappy one. There are cities one can literally never enter or practically leave, that are polluted to hell and cold as fuck year round... They are stuck there.

Maybe some posh people on the coasts and in Moscow enjoy good lives in Russia - yes, I'm sure there are some great places, but in the interior - in the Siberia - in many of those cities... those people live out there and it fucking sucks and they can't leave it.



First of all, I realize that not everyone in Russia is pro-Putin, but the vast majority are.  It has nothing to do with how intellectual a person is.  Kasparov was anti-communist because world chess champions could make millions in the US but a lot less in Russia, so his position is understandable.

Secondly, Russia isn't even a communist country anymore and no one is "stuck" anywhere.  That's more nonsense.

Third, and I've stated this many times, I support capitalism over communism. 

Quote:

twighead said:
You'd also have to be pretty naive to believe that kind of hostile environment isn't going to create societal resentment and problems, it even does in Alaska and North Canada but to a much different less intense degree.



Source?  Or make believe?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Offlinekoods
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Re: Teresa May takes Russia to task over chemical weapon attack on British soil [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25752844 - 01/19/19 02:11 AM (5 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Secondly, Russia isn't even a communist country anymore and no one is "stuck" anywhere.  That's more nonsense.




Yeah it’s the worst kind of capitalist. A very small class of extremely wealthy, and the rest of the country not doing much better than the old Soviet days.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
ā€œif I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to herā€

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