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 Falcon91Wolvrn03
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 Re: Teresa May takes Russia to task over chemical weapon attack on British soil  [Re: Enlil]
#25110787 - 04/03/18 11:35 AM (6 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
They were attacked by a Russian made weapon that very few people have. Russia has a history of assassinating people on foreign soil with poisons. This isn't rocket science.
Quote:
Enlil said:
I say we have a motive and a very rare poison that Russia developed. Is that enough proof to convict in a court of law? No. It is, however, proof.
Quote:
Enlil said:
In a few months, it won't matter. More evidence will surface, and it'll be just like the polonium poisoning. Everyone will know Russia did it
Looks like more 'evidence' (or lack thereof) has surfaced:
Porton Down experts unable to verify 'precise source of novichok'
Quote:
British scientists at Porton Down have not been able to establish where the novichok nerve agent used to poison Sergei and Yulia Skripal was made, it has emerged.
Gary Aitkenhead, the chief executive of the Defence Science and Technology Laboratory (DSTL) at Porton Down, Wiltshire, said it had not proved it was created in Russia.
“We have not identified the precise source, but we have provided the scientific information to government who have then used a number of other sources to piece together the conclusions that they have come to.”
He explained that establishing its origin required “other inputs”, some of them intelligence-based, that the government has access to.
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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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 Enlil 
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Registered: 08/16/03
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Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Teresa May takes Russia to task over chemical weapon attack on British soil [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#25110915 - 04/03/18 12:49 PM (6 years, 14 days ago) |
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So, you have no evidence that killing these people would stop the gas line other than some people, after the fact, called for the gas line to stop. That's nothing.
And I think you miss my motive.
Hypothesis: Russia has a reason to want this guy dead as a deterrent to other spies that might seek to betray the nation.
1. Russia has a reason to want to deter spies from betraying Russia
2. Killing spies that betray Russia deters other spies from betraying Russia.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Teresa May takes Russia to task over chemical weapon attack on British soil [Re: Enlil]
#25111010 - 04/03/18 01:23 PM (6 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
So, you have no evidence that killing these people would stop the gas line other than some people, after the fact, called for the gas line to stop. That's nothing.
And I think you miss my motive.
Hypothesis: Russia has a reason to want this guy dead as a deterrent to other spies that might seek to betray the nation.
1. Russia has a reason to want to deter spies from betraying Russia
2. Killing spies that betray Russia deters other spies from betraying Russia.
Your hypothesis doesn't hold true if the FSB keeps saying things like this:
Quote:
Maj-Gen Alexander Mikhailov, from the Russian security agency FSB, claimed that if it was true the poisoning had happened on the doorstep then the Skripals would have died instantly and would not made it as far as the park where they were found slumped on a bench.
Mikhailov said Theresa May should resign for misleading world opinion.
Other spies have to believe it was Russia to be deterred.
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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Enlil
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Re: Teresa May takes Russia to task over chemical weapon attack on British soil [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#25111017 - 04/03/18 01:26 PM (6 years, 14 days ago) |
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Of course the Russian spies believe it. You don't think they're aware of how to lie? That's pretty much basic training in the spy trade. The Russians deny that they ever even developed or manufactured novichok in the first place.
It's public knowledge that others have survived novichok poisoning.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Teresa May takes Russia to task over chemical weapon attack on British soil [Re: Enlil]
#25111031 - 04/03/18 01:34 PM (6 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Of course the Russian spies believe it.
How do you know? Or did you just make that up?
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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Enlil
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Re: Teresa May takes Russia to task over chemical weapon attack on British soil [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#25111040 - 04/03/18 01:36 PM (6 years, 14 days ago) |
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Because Russian spies are the ones who carried out the assassination attempt
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Teresa May takes Russia to task over chemical weapon attack on British soil [Re: Enlil]
#25111056 - 04/03/18 01:43 PM (6 years, 14 days ago) |
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Source? Or is this just more WMD type evidence?
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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Enlil
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Re: Teresa May takes Russia to task over chemical weapon attack on British soil [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#25111065 - 04/03/18 01:47 PM (6 years, 14 days ago) |
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That's the whole theory, dude. If Russia did it, they would have used spies to do it. If they didn't do it, the motive is irrelevant.
You do realize that Putin himself promised, shortly after Skripal's release to the UK, that "traitors will kick the bucket," right? You don't think that is evidence that Putin wanted this dude dead?
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koods
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Re: Teresa May takes Russia to task over chemical weapon attack on British soil [Re: Enlil]
#25111073 - 04/03/18 01:51 PM (6 years, 14 days ago) |
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Oh good lord. If video appeared showing putin owning a bottle of nerve agent and spraying it in the faces of the victims, he would say it's fake. There is no level of evidence that will convince him when he doesn't want to believe something. It doesn't matter what he thinks.
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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Teresa May takes Russia to task over chemical weapon attack on British soil [Re: Enlil]
#25111133 - 04/03/18 02:22 PM (6 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
If Russia did it, they would have used spies to do it. If they didn't do it, the motive is irrelevant.
Exactly.
Quote:
Enlil said:
You do realize that Putin himself promised, shortly after Skripal's release to the UK, that "traitors will kick the bucket," right? You don't think that is evidence that Putin wanted this dude dead?
Did he say anything like that since he said this in 2010?
Vladimir Putin says Russian secret service no longer kills traitors
You don't think that is evidence that Putin didn't want this dude dead? (using your own logic here)
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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Teresa May takes Russia to task over chemical weapon attack on British soil [Re: koods]
#25111140 - 04/03/18 02:24 PM (6 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
koods said:
Oh good lord. If video appeared showing putin owning a bottle of nerve agent and spraying it in the faces of the victims, he would say it's fake. There is no level of evidence that will convince him when he doesn't want to believe something. It doesn't matter what he thinks.
You should know damn well by now that I believe anything that has sufficient evidence.
You're basically saying "WAAAA, Fal doesn't want to make believe with us. He must be a Putin bot!"
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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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koods
Ribbit
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Re: Teresa May takes Russia to task over chemical weapon attack on British soil [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#25111158 - 04/03/18 02:36 PM (6 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
gen Alexander Mikhailov, from the Russian security agency FSB, claimed that if it was true the poisoning had happened on the doorstep then the Skripals would have died instantly and would not made it as far as the park where they were found slumped on a bench.
]
Well. We can dismiss his "opinion" as worthless considering he doesn't seem to understand the nature of organophosphate poisoning. You can't die instantly. They kill you by making it impossible to control your breathing. Even if I stopped breathing right now, I would have at least a minute or two before losing consciousness and another few minutes before actually dying.
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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Teresa May takes Russia to task over chemical weapon attack on British soil [Re: koods]
#25111170 - 04/03/18 02:41 PM (6 years, 14 days ago) |
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That's obviously what he meant. His point was that they wouldn't have strolled to the park they were found. 
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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Enlil
OTD God-King
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,258
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Teresa May takes Russia to task over chemical weapon attack on British soil [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#25111178 - 04/03/18 02:44 PM (6 years, 14 days ago) |
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The real question is: How would he know? Russia denies ever making or having novichok.
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koods
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Re: Teresa May takes Russia to task over chemical weapon attack on British soil [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#25111205 - 04/03/18 02:55 PM (6 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
That's obviously what he meant. His point was that they wouldn't have strolled to the park they were found.
Why? Sound like the were exposed by touching a contaminated doorhandle. That kind of exposure would take multiple minutes before symptoms would start.
Quote:
Note: Sarin is an EXTREMELY ACTIVE cholinesterase inhibitor. Warning: Death may occur within 1 to 10 minutes of inhalation exposure to a minute amount of sarin. Immediate decontamination of the smallest drop is essential. Effects may be delayed with dermal exposure. Extreme caution is advised.
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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Teresa May takes Russia to task over chemical weapon attack on British soil [Re: Enlil]
#25111504 - 04/03/18 04:27 PM (6 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
The real question is: How would he know? Russia denies ever making or having novichok.
Russia denies ever having a substance under the name of 'novichok'; they don't deny ever having related nerve agents. You're misreading your 'fake' news.
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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Enlil
OTD God-King
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,258
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Teresa May takes Russia to task over chemical weapon attack on British soil [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#25111633 - 04/03/18 05:17 PM (6 years, 14 days ago) |
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I'm just going by what the man said in his native tongue. I have no clue what news you're referring to.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Teresa May takes Russia to task over chemical weapon attack on British soil [Re: Enlil]
#25111703 - 04/03/18 05:45 PM (6 years, 14 days ago) |
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You're just going by what who said? Putin? Source?
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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Enlil
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Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,258
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Teresa May takes Russia to task over chemical weapon attack on British soil [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#25111713 - 04/03/18 05:50 PM (6 years, 14 days ago) |
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Sergei Ryabkov.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Teresa May takes Russia to task over chemical weapon attack on British soil [Re: Enlil]
#25111819 - 04/03/18 06:45 PM (6 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
Enlil said:
The real question is: How would he know? Russia denies ever making or having novichok.
Russia denies ever having a substance under the name of 'novichok'; they don't deny ever having related nerve agents. You're misreading your 'fake' news.
I'm just going by what the man (Sergei Ryabkov) said in his native tongue. I have no clue what news you're referring to.
This is what news I'm referring to:
Quote:
Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov was quoted by the Interfax news agency Thursday that Russia had halted all chemical weapons research after joining the Chemical Weapons Convention that entered force in 1997.
He charged that neither the Soviet Union nor Russia had a program to develop a nerve agent called Novichok, saying the claim was made by people who moved to the West. He could have been referring to the fact that Novichok is a nickname, not an official name, for the nerve agent.
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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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