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Offlinethealienthatategod
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salvia portals * 1
    #25056054 - 03/11/18 01:30 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

this post on Salvia by kizatzhaddarak was in the John Hopkins DMT thread, and i didn't want to reply there as to distract from what that thread is about.

this is one of the most true posts on Salvia (to me) that i have ever read.

the point is, be careful opening Salvia portal, unless you are called to first.

what are your thoughts?

Quote:

kizatzhaddarak said:
I find this thread to be quite interesting. I have had suspicions of themes, that people often (trip) on. Including entities. trip reports and video clips sometimes show evidence of people having conversations with entities. There is a long standing tradition among shamans who employ herbs and fungi to communicate with spirits/ deities.

Although I have not experienced DMT, I had a VERY strong dose and experience with Salvia, that changed how I thought about the herb before I took it, and now after.

I ended up smoking an extraction of salvia that at first severed my control of my body, like a near death experience. I couldn't control breathing, or connect thought to action, to say. .move my arms or legs. But that was not the only thing that I experienced.

what happened next, was one of the scariest experiences of my life. I was then visited by the (spirit) of the Plant. Who I will just Call, (Mother-Salvia). I can remember the conversation I had with her quite well; as this was also a hallmark life changing moment.

She presented herself to me as an Old Native Central American Woman dressed in High-country Guatemalan clothing. She told me, that there are other entities besides herself on the other side of the (veil). Not all of these other beings are positive or have good intentions for humanity. She basicly made it clear to me that Salvia opens a doorway to this other side, and not all things that we see or have contact with while under the influence of Salvia will be good. And what's more, some things can be unleashed from the other side, and haunt or follow us. Causing misery and lifelong metaphysical problems.

She then showed me something to be afraid of, that was similar to these images from Full Metal Alchemist/Anime-Manga. The Door to the veil its self, and glimpse beyond it to where the Great Spirit had banished things to the (dark), Long ago.




Although this all Played out over the course of  a couple mins.,  To this day, I can quite vividly remember her warning to me, that some plants and herbs and fungi, act as a Key to (open the door). These are the tools of the Shaman and they should be respected.

For me, after this experience, I learned that some substances are fine for relaxation and recreation, like cannabis. However, others like Salvia, are Far different and in my opinion are not something for recreation. To me, Salvia falls into a potentially dangerous class of substances that can have unforseen consequences.

I am not sure what else I can add here. I can discuss further thoughts on this topic, if people want in replies, or people can message me in private. I know that my response was not specific to DMT., However I did experience the (presence of an entity), even if it wasn't under the influence of DMT.

Miss-K




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InvisiblePlain
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Re: salvia portals [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #25056110 - 03/11/18 02:05 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

My personal experience with Lady Salvia: also I want to add I don't finish reading that report until after I posted this and wow I'm a little shook at some similarities..
I have had many experiences with encountering Sally, lady salvia, mother salvia. But the energy, albeit a feminine one was not motherly, more aunt like but still not an aunt. It's like a women who is aunt or mother age, meaning it's not an elder lady or a young lady and it feels like she is there for guidance or to help in some way and she feels like a familiar energy. That was the best way I've seen it described in these threads YEARS ago in the past and it stuck with me ever since.

I have experienced lady salvia on multiple occasions which is why I'm interested in how salvia effects the brain. This is a very common phenomena from using salvia apparently and when I encountered her my trips are often more pleasant than when she is not involved in my trip.

I myself have never tried DMT yet, but I have encountered entities from salvia which is not what that JHU survey post is for otherwise I would have been involved in it myself.

Love me some salvia every once in a good long while just to humble me a bit and get me thinking outside of the box I can get stuck in from time to time.

Very interesting post though!


--------------------
"You are not IN the universe, you ARE the universe, an intrinsic part of it. Ultimately you are not a person, but a focal point where the universe is becoming conscious of itself. What an amazing miracle."

- Eckhart Tolle

“Everybody is ‘you’. Everybody is ‘I’. That’s our name. We all share that.”

- Alan Watts

"Cosmic apotheosis wears off quicker than Salvia"

- Rick Sanchez (voice of Justin Roiland)


Edited by Plain (03/11/18 02:07 PM)


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OfflineDr. Delban
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Re: salvia portals [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #25199869 - 05/12/18 07:56 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

I experienced the female spirit very clearly only once. I can describe her as SERIOUS. She was neither evil or good. But she was serious.
Came to teach me, to pass on the information. She also did something that seemed like a test, which made me suspicious towards her and got me thinking that she might in fact me evil.
At the same time I look at that trip from another angle too - it was creation of my mind. Whichever is true - I passed the test and did not jump out of the window. I remained in control.


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Re: salvia portals [Re: Dr. Delban]
    #25200062 - 05/12/18 10:20 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

I had one profound experience with the sage that took me all the way into that disembodied state.
(Trip Report: Folded into the Psycloptimogiven)

In the phase preceding  that dissolution I was bathed in a deep, warm love that felt like sunshine and my Grandmother's smile. Absolutely feminine, but loving, protective...Grandmotherly. And she showed me Psycloptimogiven before sending me back. It was an overall magnificent experience.
Nonetheless, I was absolutely terrified by the prospect of going again. Strangest stuff in the world!

JWM


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Re: salvia portals [Re: Dr. Delban]
    #25200075 - 05/12/18 10:28 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

on my first taste of plain leaf, smoked in a garage behind my house, I thought there was a mexican man in the shadows behind me after inhaling once. It was encouraging but subtle.

on my second taste in a nice room we made in the attic, I had 3 tokes, and I saw both a young and old man in the room with me, and some women in the background - as if the world had intersected with theirs in mexico or south america.

After the peak (10 minutes later), while walking down stairs, all I could say was, that's astonishing. simply astonishing.


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OfflineDr. Delban
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Re: salvia portals [Re: JWM]
    #25213101 - 05/18/18 06:55 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

JWM said:
I had one profound experience with the sage that took me all the way into that disembodied state.
(Trip Report: Folded into the Psycloptimogiven)

JWM




Hmmmm... Psycloptimogiven you say?

I searched the www for it and apart from this thread the only other result I got is this: http://americandigest.org/mt-archives/american_studies/salvia_and_the_naked_schi.php


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Re: salvia portals [Re: Dr. Delban]
    #25213380 - 05/18/18 09:31 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

My response to that is this:

Poppycock.  It was all just an hallucination.  Stop touting a traumatic drug induced experience as "truth."  There is no wisdom in what you have written.  It's all just imaginings and an appearance to your mind.  Get over it.  There is no fucking portal, or hidden other world.

Jesus, you crazy fuckers piss me off to no end.  You took a powerful psychoactive dug.  What did you expect...normalcy???  Fool.

You signed up.  Got in the que, and did the deed.  And now you're whining about the trauma and trying to frighten others by asserting that your delusion of a portal to a dark realm is "real"?  No dumbass...it was just your drug addled mind. You glimpsed NOTHING of any import to those with their intellect soundly grounded in consensual reality, which you temporarily altered, voluntarily abandoned - and were COMPLETELY fooled by.  Get off your pedagogic soap box and get a grip.

When I do a powerful psychedelic I EXPECT inexplicably strange experiences.  But when sober, I recognize that the experience was nothing of ANY significance. Only an idiot would think otherwise.


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Edited by Nature Boy (05/18/18 09:53 PM)


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Re: salvia portals [Re: Nature Boy]
    #25214724 - 05/19/18 03:23 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

It is not very neighborly to refer to portal thinkers as idiots.
something very much like a portal experience happens when the mind goes from a regular timeline and 3 dimensional continuity to time stopping or proceeding at discontinuous rates and space extending in more than 3 simple directions.

if there is a place where this happens regularly, the term "portal" seems appropriate, even if the underlying mechanics of it has more to do with signal propagation states of the brain than string theory or quantum gravity.


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Re: salvia portals [Re: Dr. Delban]
    #25214792 - 05/19/18 04:14 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Dr. Delban said:
Quote:

JWM said:
I had one profound experience with the sage that took me all the way into that disembodied state.
(Trip Report: Folded into the Psycloptimogiven)

JWM




Hmmmm... Psycloptimogiven you say?

I searched the www for it and apart from this thread the only other result I got is this: http://americandigest.org/mt-archives/american_studies/salvia_and_the_naked_schi.php




Small world! American Digest is my favorite site on the web. The full version of my trip story is here in Trip Reports, somewhere on page two now, I think. And yeah- almost every time I do the sage it puts those weird words into my head. One time, after I came out of the dream I blurted out, "Wow I'm all bersquackened!" Go figure.

JWM


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OfflineNature Boy
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Re: salvia portals [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25214918 - 05/19/18 05:47 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
It is not very neighborly to refer to portal thinkers as idiots.
something very much like a portal experience happens when the mind goes from a regular timeline and 3 dimensional continuity to time stopping or proceeding at discontinuous rates and space extending in more than 3 simple directions.

if there is a place where this happens regularly, the term "portal" seems appropriate, even if the underlying mechanics of it has more to do with signal propagation states of the brain than string theory or quantum gravity.




First of all I'd like to point out that no one posting to this thread could possibly be insulted, because the OP was not the author of this conspiracy-theory like assertion of the objectively true existence of a portal to another (also objectively existing) netherworld.  He was just reporting on what someone else wrote.

Those who promote the false theories of these "alternate places" accessible through dissociative and/or psychedelic drugs are being mislead by their own mind - and you of all people RGV - would be one of the last I would expect to defend anyone proposing such a preposterous theory.

I'll prove it to you right here, right now, and hopefully I will never have to read another preposterous assertion from anyone on this topic ever again.

On any salvia (or LSD, or DMT, or DPT or...) trip at a modest enough dose for you to be able to carry into the trip the fact that you've "done a drug" have you ever perceived a "portal?"  Answered honestly, I'll bet all the money in my wallet the answer is "NO."

A directly analogous explanation is found with lucid dreamers.  Wildly bizarre things happen in dreams all the time.  And in the midst of those dreams we accept and believe the circumstances, no matter how bizarre - and it seems utterly real.  HOWEVER, once you realize you are dreaming (happened to me last night) no matter how bizarre the circumstance you wake into, you realize (at least >>I<< do) that I'm safe at home sleeping in my own bed and that the sights, smells, and sounds are all a figment of my minds creation and NOT objectively real.  At that instant, and for the balance of the dream, I'm no longer fooled by the appearance of the odd circumstances that prompt the realization that I am dreaming.

These portal of which people write merely reflects the ignorance of the mind to what is really going on, be it a dream or a trip in which the tripper has lost sight of having taken a psychoactive compound.

And I'm sorry, but anyone who wakes from a dream or comes down from such a trip who continues to believe that the "other world" that they glimpsed is objectively real, is, in my humble opinion, either a plain, every-day run of the mill idiot, or a self-deluding idiot.  And if you write such an inane thing - or try to defend it - you deserve to be openly criticized.

You want to convince me otherwise???  BRING SOMETHING BACK from the other side.  Then we'll talk.


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Edited by Nature Boy (05/19/18 06:00 PM)


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: salvia portals [Re: Nature Boy]
    #25215347 - 05/19/18 10:28 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Do people experience the same "archetypes" from lucid dreamer to lucid dreamer? Maybe people don't discuss thier lucid dreams as much as trips, so it seems more prevelant in trips?

I will not try and shake your point of view,but I respectfully disagree. There are experiences..... tripping or not tripping... .that philosophy, science, and faith cannot put into words, let alone comprehension. I get your definition, it's more comfortable to lock everything down.... then too admitt not knowing or the inability to explain things of a mystical nature besides describing it in scientific terms.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.”


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OfflineNature Boy
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Re: salvia portals [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #25215384 - 05/19/18 10:56 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

I am a member of a popular lucid dreaming forum. Have been for years. It's something that I've been able to do since childhood, although there were many years where I made no effort to cultivate the skills to stay lucid. Now I can exercise some pretty good control, fly, conjure up dream characters with whom to interact, phase through walls, etc.

I can't speak for other LDers, but AFAIK, there are no archetypal lucid dreamer subjects. There ARE some standard or common activities that adept LDers do, particularly flying and having sex or being sexual with other dream characters.


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Re: salvia portals [Re: Nature Boy]
    #25215498 - 05/20/18 12:03 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Nature Boy said:
My response to that is this:

Poppycock.  It was all just an hallucination.  Stop touting a traumatic drug induced experience as "truth."  There is no wisdom in what you have written.  It's all just imaginings and an appearance to your mind.  Get over it.  There is no fucking portal, or hidden other world.

Jesus, you crazy fuckers piss me off to no end.  You took a powerful psychoactive dug.  What did you expect...normalcy???  Fool.

You signed up.  Got in the que, and did the deed.  And now you're whining about the trauma and trying to frighten others by asserting that your delusion of a portal to a dark realm is "real"?  No dumbass...it was just your drug addled mind. You glimpsed NOTHING of any import to those with their intellect soundly grounded in consensual reality, which you temporarily altered, voluntarily abandoned - and were COMPLETELY fooled by.  Get off your pedagogic soap box and get a grip.

When I do a powerful psychedelic I EXPECT inexplicably strange experiences.  But when sober, I recognize that the experience was nothing of ANY significance. Only an idiot would think otherwise.




Are you a materialist?
If you are there isn't much point discussing things but if you have experienced the other side. I have through two NDE so am sort of always halfway in/out. You know like energies attract like. So for one with fearful/angry parts of self when they leave the material or as you call it consensus reality they will often face those energies. 

The portal is just an analogy for the human mind to grasp it isn't anything to get angry about but I do think it is a good warning. People who are unprepared should do some self analysis healing/work before they go exploring a less finite part of consciousness or they will face things they have hidden from within themselves unprepared.

The monsters you bring back are just wounds that need healing but its safer to do that in small doses while conscious vs being scared out of your wits in a state you cannot wake from. That would just compound the wound and it would seem like bringing an entity back.

You are welcome to think whatever you wish about me but there is a state that isn't just hallucination. After my NDEs I have seen visions that happend 30 minutes to several days later. Told people what I saw because it freaked me out then it came true and we all freaked out. It's not a portal but it certainly isn't just a hallucination.

I guess premonitions count as bringing something back though I cannot control it. It was a gift for me because you cannot explain "that side" away after seeing a horse run wildly backward and smash into your truck then gasping in horror tell people what you just "saw" then 30 minutes later have a $1500 repair bill because that flash came true and your truck has a big horse ass sized dent in it.

None of us could even speak after that we all just sat down in silence. It was my first post nde premonition, not my last.

BTW I don't intend this in a argumentative manner but you just seemed so upset that I couldn't not reply.


Edited by Armida (05/20/18 12:21 AM)


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OfflineNature Boy
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Re: salvia portals [Re: Armida]
    #25215848 - 05/20/18 06:09 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Materialist?  No, not so much.  Realist?  Yep.  Guilty.

And I didn't interpret anything in your post as being argumentative.  You write and express yourself very well.

I think we somewhat agree.  If the portals of which you speak are merely an analogy, it seems to me you are not one of those who cling to what I consider to be an utterly silly notion that portals objectively exist in some physical way - like a rock or car...and that there are realms to which they give access only while in the psychedelic or dissociated state (of which an NDE is included, BTW!).

When you see that premise typed out, doesn't it seem ridiculous to you?  It certainly does to me.  And why only when tripping?  There are literally tens of billions of people-lives that have been lived. (In other words humans from prior generations right up until today).  Given the zillions of experiences had in all those lived lifetimes, if there WAS an objectively real nether-world accessible through some "portal" don't you think it would be well documented in human history by now???

I get the fact that "the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"...but I just don't understand the fringe thinkers that ignore and just sweep aside how vanishingly small the chances are.


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Re: salvia portals [Re: Nature Boy]
    #25216052 - 05/20/18 09:45 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

identify me as materialist, realist, mental theorist, psychedelic philosopher, what ever, but one thing that I have learned is that people have real experiences, that are indisputable (as experiences):
all the factors of experiencing, brain waves, memory formation, etc. take place, even when the honest evaluation about the origin of each element of experience can be disputed.

in the case of the salvia portal, which has not been a term of my own, I do not agree with all the symbols and attributions of holy, sacred, profane, animist, or other additions, but it is such a dramatic transition in experiencing, like going to light speed in star trek or on the millennium falcon, that this transition is easily as dramatic as walking through a door way.

transitions of space (and time) are worth taking note of, so I do not discount this effort. People have to use their own terms, or they will not make progress in understanding their lives.

this is true even if you cannot bring back souvenirs or even memories that make sense, much of what is in mind does not make sense, but we can learn to work with it.


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Re: salvia portals [Re: Nature Boy]
    #25216240 - 05/20/18 11:37 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Nature Boy said:
Materialist?  No, not so much.  Realist?  Yep.  Guilty.

And I didn't interpret anything in your post as being argumentative.  You write and express yourself very well.

I think we somewhat agree.  If the portals of which you speak are merely an analogy, it seems to me you are not one of those who cling to what I consider to be an utterly silly notion that portals objectively exist in some physical way - like a rock or car...and that there are realms to which they give access only while in the psychedelic or dissociated state (of which an NDE is included, BTW!).

When you see that premise typed out, doesn't it seem ridiculous to you?  It certainly does to me.  And why only when tripping?  There are literally tens of billions of people-lives that have been lived. (In other words humans from prior generations right up until today).  Given the zillions of experiences had in all those lived lifetimes, if there WAS an objectively real nether-world accessible through some "portal" don't you think it would be well documented in human history by now???

I get the fact that "the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"...but I just don't understand the fringe thinkers that ignore and just sweep aside how vanishingly small the chances are.




Thank you for taking my post as intended. Much appreciated.

I guess the only reason I felt the urge to respond wasn't so much about portals, but that your energy was so riled up by the statement about portals.

Some people cannot process that an experience is happening within themselves, yet they have to make sense of it somehow.
Without the capacity to understand the unconscious they need a parable to gain anything from the experience.

It isn't hurting anyone that "portals" is how his brain and many others make sense of these things.

Quote:

redgreenvines- People have to use their own terms, or they will not make progress in understanding their lives.




I guess I could have just said ditto because this is how I see it.

You have every right to be bothered by it.(self awareness kicking in) I saw my own experience of being frustrated when I read your post and the urge was to help you around that.
It isn't my right so I apologize. I know I have felt it, it's just such a relief to accept people all experience things different.

And to be truthful the warning is good because if you are fearful enough to worry about something "evil" coming back with you maybe you are not ready to safely go exploring the unconscious. Us saying deal with some of your emotional baggage first so it's not a bad trip isn't likely going to work as well as them having to decide if they are afraid of demons.


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Re: salvia portals [Re: Armida]
    #25216383 - 05/20/18 01:27 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

My highest dose salvia experiences have rocked me to the core and terrified me.

The most profoundly terrifying experience was the one where my entire reality was flying away from me on playing cards from an infinite deck.  Each "card" represented an infinitesimally small slice of time flying off to my left and into my past.  Every card contained a version of "me" along with all the people, places, things, interactions, and thoughts I had had in my lifetime up until the present one - and the present one - and the present one - and the present one...on ad infinitum.  I perceived tens of millions of slices flying off per second.

For all I know, this is analogous to the way that "time" actually works at the quantum level, i.e. quantum time.  But once recovered, I didn't continue to believe that all those slices of my (past or future) life were objectively real, or accessible through some as yet undiscovered mechanism.

There's a huge difference between having a dissociative-induced experience - and believing in that experience as objectively real - even in those instances where there might be even be some basis in theory in a discipline such as physics/science.

Where I find fault is the failure to come to sensible terms with the experience by remembering it was drug induced.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: salvia portals [Re: Nature Boy]
    #25216411 - 05/20/18 01:40 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

how do you come to terms with dreams of any kind?

the drug thing mostly helps when you think that it's going to last forever,
e.g. your sitter might say to you "you just had a hit of salvia, you will be normal in 10 minutes. relax and go with it. you're ok"


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OfflineNature Boy
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Re: salvia portals [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25216434 - 05/20/18 01:57 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

I never have a sitter.  Absolutely no one in my life, not even my wife has any idea I dabble in psychedelics.

This has a two-fold effect, both of which I consider positive.  1)  It greatly compromises the frequency with which I can indulge and 2) it obligates me to be circumspect about my dosages and "nibble my way" up to what I consider my optimal dosage.

The horrific experiences with salvia that I have had on one or two occasions (as you may recall, RGV) were through errors of one kind or another.  One of the worst was when I mistook my son's 10X salvia for pot and hit a pipe-full. I hit "A" on the salvia scale on that one.

I can't remember the circumstances that led to the "playing card" experience.  I would rate that one an "I."


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Re: salvia portals [Re: Nature Boy]
    #25216618 - 05/20/18 03:44 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

I have slipped over the optimal inebriation several times, during which, I could not remember any sequence of words longer than one, so the one I take with me, just in case I need it is "relax".

at immaterial I don't do language that well. at amnesia, it does not matter.

My wife has been my sitter, but if wandering sets in, then - well, I have asked her to get between me and the stair case. Staircases have been very difficult with my feet put on backwards a few times on the way to sanctuary in the fridge.


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