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 muush
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Registered: 02/03/18
Posts: 9
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 Peyote dying? please help 
#25049762 - 03/08/18 03:36 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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This is a 17 years old peyote that I have. Someone took it out from its pot and threw it into a bucket and was left there I don't know how many days, without soil and completely exposed to the weather. I was so angry when I found him there.
I put it again into soil but seems it was seriously damaged. It has a huge hole and seems it's starting to rot.
What can I do???
https://i.imgur.com/tgsby74.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/mSP7Cs7.jpg
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 Morel Guy
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Re: Peyote dying? please help [Re: muush]
#25049785 - 03/08/18 03:47 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Roots are probably rotten.
You could try to cut that one button where it's all green. Scab over and root.
Talk about a loss!
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"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"
In filth it will be found in dung it will be found
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DualWieldRake
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Re: Peyote dying? please help [Re: muush]
#25049796 - 03/08/18 03:50 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Get some pereskiopsis and some seeds and grow an army of these in a year or 2
Use well draining soil when you degraft them
I'd do some evaluation in this one to get more of an idea where and how it went wrong
Like the roots and sorts.
Seems unlikely but perhaps some completely green parts can be found and cut off for a new rooting attempt
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Mateo
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What did the roots look like, did they look OK?
Is there any part of the Loph that is soft and mushy, any rot?
Did you water it?
If it´s not dry or is soft/mushy or have rot you should not put it in soil again.
Take it out of the soil, leave it in a dry, roomtemp, well ventilated area so the damaged parts can callous, ie heal and form a harder layer over damaged parts.
Putting it in soil will only make it easier to rot/spread rot or begin to rot.
Dont water or let it have humid conditions.
Leave it in dry, vetilated area without soil and pray.
It might pull through but now it dont need water.
If it is dry and not soft and roots look OK, you can plant it but be very careful with watering, just a little for starters.
Poor thing, 17 years.
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A wise rat has many holes
Edited by Mateo (03/08/18 05:14 PM)
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Mateo
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Re: Peyote dying? please help [Re: Mateo]
#25050044 - 03/08/18 05:20 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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It´s hard to see if the damaged parts are dry and have harden or if it´s soft and maybe start rotting.
Can you be little more specific?
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A wise rat has many holes
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Johnny Dont
500 Don'ts of Knife Safety
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Re: Peyote dying? please help [Re: Mateo]
#25050334 - 03/08/18 07:11 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Cut out the rot, let it callous and root it. It looks bad 
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I have left life and loves behind me, to be blown about as the sea desires, to have the freedom of the open air, and to be witness to the making of the world.
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muush
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Registered: 02/03/18
Posts: 9
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Re: Peyote dying? please help [Re: Mateo]
#25052087 - 03/09/18 02:02 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Hi guys, I appreciate your answers. Actually it has lost its green color in almost every part, those grayish parts are very soft, easily breakable if I push with my finger.
Quote:
Mateo said:
It´s hard to see if the damaged parts are dry and have harden or if it´s soft and maybe start rotting.
Can you be little more specific?
The parts surrounding the hole are hard, seems dry. The other half of the peyote, with that gray/light brown color, is actually soft and weak.
I can't tell if the root is okay, I don't know how to recognize anything wrong with the roots. I'll upload a couple pictures of it tomorrow.
So, can I take it out of the soil and leave it there with no problem?
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Mateo
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Re: Peyote dying? please help [Re: muush]
#25052127 - 03/09/18 02:25 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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To take it out of the soil would not hurt it.
The damaged parts seems to have callused if i understand you right, but the parts that should be green and healty are becoming black/grey and are very soft, and it is spreading, is that correct?
It seems you must save what you can because the rot will probably spread to the whole cactus if you wait.
You could try cut off all the parts that is rotting and let the cut areas callous and then root it as JD suggests above.
Chanses are you can´t save it and the rot has spread too far but it can be worth a try.
If you wait it will only get worse.
That side pup, is it green and healthy still?
If so, cut that off and put it in a ventilated area to callous.
If still green and healty, that pup can be the new start of this cactus.
You can still try save the rest the same way, just get rid of the rotting parts first.
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A wise rat has many holes
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Feroxx
Master of the Green Fist
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Loc: Cruel sun
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Re: Peyote dying? please help [Re: muush]
#25052135 - 03/09/18 02:28 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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was that done by someone on the street ? you shouldnt have valuable plants exposed to people on the street
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Mateo
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Re: Peyote dying? please help [Re: Feroxx]
#25052141 - 03/09/18 02:32 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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On second thought, maybe you should see if you can save the base cactus before cutting the pup off.
You can allways do that if you find it main cactus is too damaged.
The damage looks like it could have been done by some kind of animal, or do you know what happened?
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A wise rat has many holes
Edited by Mateo (03/09/18 02:39 PM)
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muush
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Re: Peyote dying? please help [Re: Mateo]
#25052377 - 03/09/18 04:13 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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I don't know what happened, it wasn't exposed to people on the street, it was in my garden. Maybe someone in my family just discovered the cactus and thought it was an ugly plant and threw it to a bucket (that's where I found it). Anyway I've asked them and no one knows anything. I'm angry and confused 
Honestly, I've never given much attention to the peyote, I bought him 17 years ago and did very well growing up on his own, but seeing him this way is heartbreaking...
Quote:
Mateo said:
The damaged parts seems to have callused if i understand you right, but the parts that should be green and healty are becoming black/grey and are very soft, and it is spreading, is that correct?
Yes, those parts are very soft and weak and seems to be spreading.
Quote:
Mateo said:
That side pup, is it green and healthy still?
The pup is also being affected, as you can see in the these pictures.
From above
https://i.imgur.com/3EqnBbb.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/qB54vJm.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/wCOXdH5.jpg
The pup
https://i.imgur.com/FDitzY1.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/GzILEKj.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/CDTLon8.jpg
Roots
https://i.imgur.com/GS6gFEF.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/GKbTawH.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/HXFNaG1.jpg
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Feroxx
Master of the Green Fist
Registered: 09/18/17
Posts: 688
Loc: Cruel sun
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Re: Peyote dying? please help [Re: muush]
#25052404 - 03/09/18 04:23 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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sorry bud, that looks pretty much unsalvageable, cut all the unnafected tissue with an sterilized blade
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WeAreMushroom
Ask Me About Bigfoot
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Re: Peyote dying? please help [Re: Feroxx]
#25052427 - 03/09/18 04:31 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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At seventeen years that probably has a decent microdose of alkaloids left in the unaffected tissue..
I'd personally eat it if I found one of my collection this close to unsalvagable.
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Feroxx
Master of the Green Fist
Registered: 09/18/17
Posts: 688
Loc: Cruel sun
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this, save the unnafected tissue, boil the rotten rest
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Mateo
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Re: Peyote dying? please help [Re: Feroxx]
#25052571 - 03/09/18 05:23 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Ohh, it looks very bad.
The first pic of the roots look good from that angle.
Take a sharp knife, a scalpel if you have one or a smaller knife that is very sharp.
Sterilize the blade, one can pour a small cup of alcohole and let the knife stand in it between cuts, blade down in alcohole.
Start cut off all rotten parts, if it is mushy, it must go.
A little discoloration is ok but no black.
Sterilize blade between cuts in your alcohole and whipe of before next cut.
Seem like you would end up with big part of the roots, witch is good, and not so much of the lophs top green growth.
If you cut off a rotten part and finds the rotten/mushy parts continue inward you must continue cut all the bad parts away.
When you have cut all bad away you should put it in a roomtemp,vell ventilated area to start callus.
If you have sulphur powder or cinnamon powder you can dust the cut areas with this, it makes the drying process faster and rot less likely.
Then wait until the cut areas has turned hard.
We see what you end up with, the chanses it make it are very slim, but if most roots and a part of the base is OK it might can start throw out new pups after you planted it later.
Show pics how it looks.
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A wise rat has many holes
Edited by Mateo (03/09/18 05:24 PM)
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muush
Stranger
Registered: 02/03/18
Posts: 9
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Re: Peyote dying? please help [Re: Mateo]
#25053627 - 03/10/18 03:27 AM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Mateo said:
Ohh, it looks very bad.
The first pic of the roots look good from that angle.
Take a sharp knife, a scalpel if you have one or a smaller knife that is very sharp.
Sterilize the blade, one can pour a small cup of alcohole and let the knife stand in it between cuts, blade down in alcohole.
Start cut off all rotten parts, if it is mushy, it must go.
A little discoloration is ok but no black.
Sterilize blade between cuts in your alcohole and whipe of before next cut.
Seem like you would end up with big part of the roots, witch is good, and not so much of the lophs top green growth.
If you cut off a rotten part and finds the rotten/mushy parts continue inward you must continue cut all the bad parts away.
When you have cut all bad away you should put it in a roomtemp,vell ventilated area to start callus.
If you have sulphur powder or cinnamon powder you can dust the cut areas with this, it makes the drying process faster and rot less likely.
Then wait until the cut areas has turned hard.
We see what you end up with, the chanses it make it are very slim, but if most roots and a part of the base is OK it might can start throw out new pups after you planted it later.
Show pics how it looks.
Okay so I have to cut the mushy parts with a sterilized blade and use sulphur powder on the wounds to prevent fungus to grow.
It is still unclear to me if the roots (or a part of them, or which part of them) have to be removed too. In that case, should I apply sulphur on the roots too?
I'm starting with this as fast as I can get the sulphur.
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Mateo
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Re: Peyote dying? please help [Re: muush]
#25053723 - 03/10/18 05:39 AM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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The more healthy roots remaining, the better.
Same applies to the roots, if mushy or rotten cut, if looks and feel healthy dont cut.
The sulfur powder is used to dust where you have cut, so the cut areas get a sulphur coating.
No need to apply sulphur on a non cut area.
The cut areas are wet from cactus juice and must dry up before any attempt to get roots can be done.
The sulphur helps this drying process go faster and prevents rot to form.
One can do it without sulphur too, most important is the environment, a well ventilated, dry place.
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A wise rat has many holes
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DualWieldRake
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Quote:
WeAreMushroom said:
At seventeen years that probably has a decent microdose of alkaloids left in the unaffected tissue..
I'd personally eat it if I found one of my collection this close to unsalvagable.
It doesn't build up in tissue afaik
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Solipsis
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Sorry, I have to agree that it seems there is hardly anything left to salvage but don't wait to try it before it's all gone! I guess if you were already into that you could have areole grafted it but short of that I guess just cut off affected tissues indeed.
I wanted to add to that: better cut off a little extra because the rot has likely progressed a bit beyond what you can see. So cut off a bit extra to minimize chances of contamination staying in there, but only if you can afford to cut any bit extra for it to still survive.
Pretty much all parts of plants and animals are tissues, all kinds of specialized tissues. Alkaloids are supposed to build up mostly in the tissues right under the surface layer, then lower once you go beyond the surface.
To me lophs are not for eating in 99% of cases anyway but hey its a personal choice. Although yours looks like a pretty big specimen I believe you'd need to eat quite a few anyway for a good effect. Green parts are already so scarce with rot right at the doorstep...
If you'd have really green parts I would try to salvage and if not then I would think twice about eating IMO.
Is it a crest or two buttons or?...
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Mateo
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Re: Peyote dying? please help [Re: Solipsis]
#25055621 - 03/11/18 05:57 AM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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No use eating it as you would need more than that for an effect anyway.
If you were to save up for a future dose you could put the cut off parts in a plastic bag and throw in the freezer.
When you have enough loph material you can boil and freeze this material and do an extraction.
Stressed specimens are said to build up more alkaloids, and we can say for sure this one is stressed.
I do not eat peyotes either, not yet anyway.
Maybe in the future i try it.
Trichocereus are so much better for this.
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A wise rat has many holes
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muush
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Re: Peyote dying? please help [Re: Mateo]
#25055812 - 03/11/18 09:09 AM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Hi guys, I'm not eating my peyote, I have it just as a botanical curiosity.
That said, I've cut every mushy part. The main peyote has been left with no green, I've removed almost everything except for the dry, callous part surrounding the hole.
The pup has a green part still standing, but I've had to remove most tissue around. I don't know if I should tear it off from the main peyote and put it in a separated pot.
To be honest it looks really bad. Now I have it over a sheet, recovering from the surgery with the wounds covered in sulphur powder. The roots seemed fine, no greeny parts, nothing suspicious.
When should I put it in soil again?
I'm a complete noob when it comes to gardening, so if by any chance this peyote recovers you can call it a miracle...
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Johnny Dont
500 Don'ts of Knife Safety
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Re: Peyote dying? please help [Re: muush]
#25056069 - 03/11/18 11:43 AM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Let it callous for a week or 2, or longer depending on your climate. Once a good thick callous has formed you can replant it. But I would still hold off on watering for a bit longer. No need to rush it and end up with another infection.
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I have left life and loves behind me, to be blown about as the sea desires, to have the freedom of the open air, and to be witness to the making of the world.
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Mateo
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Re: Peyote dying? please help [Re: Johnny Dont]
#25057082 - 03/11/18 08:02 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yep, that sounds right.
Callous is when the cut areas of the cactus dries up and it forms a harder layer over this cut area.
You have done what you can do now, just wait for the callus process.
When you think it´s ready you should plant it in a airy soilmix.
Perlite is good to mix in at at least 33%, stone gravel without the smallest parts is also good.
And a little cactus/seedling soil.
Be very careful with watering in the beginning.
Just a little and wait longer than usual between waterings.
Gradually increase waterings but water more rarely than usual for a while.
If it works you will get new pups after a while.
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A wise rat has many holes
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DualWieldRake
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Re: Peyote dying? please help [Re: Mateo]
#25057745 - 03/12/18 06:16 AM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Small detail, the callus is not nessecarily related to drying, it can form under water.
It are undifferentiated cells that form when a wound is present and they can turn into roots (or a whole plant)
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Solipsis
m̶a̶d̶ disappointed scientist
Registered: 12/28/09
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Isn't a thicker callus formed (quicker) under dry conditions though, to protect against drying out?
I've seen wound tissue react in different ways when grafted on and when I keep a really nicely humid dome over a graft like that it can apparently heal very inconspicuously as if there isn't really a callus there.
All I'm saying is: I trust you're right DWR but I don't think each callus is created equal.
If callus consists of undifferentiated cells (meristematic?) can you make thin slices of it if you keep it clean and use to start new plants from, potentially insanely multiplying it in number? Not saying actual sterile tissue culture involving media, but just avoiding rot well.
Not really sure how much moisture or energy such a piece needs if you are not using media.
Anyway I hope your plant recovers OP, still not sure if it's a mutant..
How does someone just rip out such a specimen??
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Mateo
High on LIFE!
Registered: 06/24/11
Posts: 2,689
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Quote:
DualWieldRake said:
Small detail, the callus is not nessecarily related to drying, it can form under water.
It are undifferentiated cells that form when a wound is present and they can turn into roots (or a whole plant)
This is how i have understand it also.
Callus can of cause grow faster or slower under different conditions.
In tissue culture you try grow callus fast to use it in different ways, to create new plants for example.
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A wise rat has many holes
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Feroxx
Master of the Green Fist
Registered: 09/18/17
Posts: 688
Loc: Cruel sun
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Re: Peyote dying? please help [Re: Mateo]
#25059076 - 03/12/18 07:05 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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You have had been very active today, im in fear someone will find you and jack off one of your arms to boil it down for an extraction  
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karode13
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Posts: 15,290
Loc: LV-426
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Quote:
DualWieldRake said:
Small detail, the callus is not nessecarily related to drying, it can form under water.
It are undifferentiated cells that form when a wound is present and they can turn into roots (or a whole plant)
I think you're one of the few people here that understand the difference. I often hold back typing things like this out because I'm a little over teaching people that refuse to research or read books.
A dried cut end of a cactus isn't callus tissue,it's a dried wound. It takes some time for callus tissue to form. Same with vascular plants. But I do enjoy some of the made up stuff I read, sometimes.
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