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 ballsalsa 
Universally Loathed and Reviled
 
Registered: 03/11/15
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Loc: Foreign Lands
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 Re: Jeff Sessions to break California's sanctuary laws  [Re: koods]
#25054224 - 03/10/18 11:12 AM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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He has alternative facts.
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 XUL
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Re: Jeff Sessions to break California's sanctuary laws [Re: Enlil]
#25054230 - 03/10/18 11:14 AM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
The first time for what? If they crossed over legally, they committed no crime.
Cite me your law please. This is what I am looking at.
You are the lawyer, is this valid?
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1325
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1326
I just want to point out that priors matter.
Quote:
(1) whose removal was subsequent to a conviction for commission of three or more misdemeanors involving drugs, crimes against the person, or both, or a felony (other than an aggravated felony), such alien shall be fined under title 18, imprisoned not more than 10 years, or both;
And what is this unknow claim? There is no citation on this website. It must be crap, no?
Quote:
Such illegal entry is a misdemeanor, and, if repeated after being deported, becomes punishable as a felony.
https://fairus.org/issue/illegal-immigration/illegal-immigration-crime
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TRUMP 2020
Edited by XUL (03/10/18 11:16 AM)
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koods
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Re: Jeff Sessions to break California's sanctuary laws [Re: ballsalsa]
#25054244 - 03/10/18 11:18 AM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Having a problem with illegal immigration is a legitimate concern, but it's wrong to blame them as a group for criminal activity. There are individuals that engage in criminal activity, but that is the case in any population. But, it is absolutely false to say that illegal immigrants increase crime rates.
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Enlil
OTD God-King
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,258
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Re: Jeff Sessions to break California's sanctuary laws [Re: XUL]
#25054252 - 03/10/18 11:22 AM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
XUL said:
Cite me your law please.
What law are you talking about? People enter this country legally every day.
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XUL
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Re: Jeff Sessions to break California's sanctuary laws [Re: Enlil]
#25054253 - 03/10/18 11:23 AM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Indeed, they do.
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Enlil
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Re: Jeff Sessions to break California's sanctuary laws [Re: XUL]
#25054264 - 03/10/18 11:29 AM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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So, they've committed no crime, even if they overstay their visas.
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XUL
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Re: Jeff Sessions to break California's sanctuary laws [Re: Enlil]
#25054273 - 03/10/18 11:32 AM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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I believe it depends on the circumstances.
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Enlil
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Re: Jeff Sessions to break California's sanctuary laws [Re: XUL]
#25054276 - 03/10/18 11:33 AM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Well, you can believe what you want, thanks to the 1st amendment. The truth, however, doesn't change based on your faith. Overstaying a visa isn't a crime.
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Patlal
You ask too many questions
Registered: 10/09/10
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Re: Jeff Sessions to break California's sanctuary laws [Re: Enlil]
#25054281 - 03/10/18 11:34 AM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Well, you can believe what you want, thanks to the 1st amendment. The truth, however, doesn't change based on your faith. Overstaying a visa isn't a crime.
Soemthing tells me it soon will for some reason
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XUL
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Re: Jeff Sessions to break California's sanctuary laws [Re: Enlil]
#25054285 - 03/10/18 11:35 AM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Overstaying a visa isn't a crime.
I don't believe I have ever claimed it was.
I am talking about crossing the border without a visa.
Like I said, it depends on the circumstances.
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Edited by XUL (03/10/18 11:36 AM)
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Enlil
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Re: Jeff Sessions to break California's sanctuary laws [Re: Patlal]
#25054287 - 03/10/18 11:35 AM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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That would be counterproductive. That would mean that immigrant roundups would take longer because they'd have to face criminal prosecution (and all the accompanying due process rights) prior to deportation.
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Enlil
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Re: Jeff Sessions to break California's sanctuary laws [Re: XUL]
#25054298 - 03/10/18 11:37 AM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
XUL said:
Quote:
Enlil said:
Overstaying a visa isn't a crime.
I don't believe I have ever claimed it was.
I am talking about crossing the border without a visa.
Like I said, it depends on the circumstances.
I said that many illegal immigrants came here legally and overstayed their visas. You then countered that with some irrelevant U.S. code. Now, it seems that you agree with me.
Many illegal immigrants have never committed a crime.
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Patlal
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Re: Jeff Sessions to break California's sanctuary laws [Re: Enlil]
#25054308 - 03/10/18 11:39 AM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Many of us have never stolen anything yet every store has security cameras.
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XUL
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Re: Jeff Sessions to break California's sanctuary laws [Re: Enlil]
#25054311 - 03/10/18 11:40 AM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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No.
I just wish you would shoot straight instead of making this complicated.
What laws do you know about pertaining to border crossing?
Please state them or cite them.
I could be wrong.
I am asking for your references please.
Because you are a lawyer.
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XUL
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Re: Jeff Sessions to break California's sanctuary laws [Re: Enlil]
#25054325 - 03/10/18 11:42 AM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Further, you haven't proven why the code I posted is irrelevant.
I believe it shows that priors are considered.
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Enlil
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Re: Jeff Sessions to break California's sanctuary laws [Re: XUL] 2
#25054328 - 03/10/18 11:44 AM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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What references? You agree that overstaying a visa isn't a crime. You agree that people cross legally every day. People who cross legally and overstay their visas are illegal immigrants who have not committed a crime.
As to your "cite a law" bullshit, how does one cite a law saying that something ISN'T a crime. Riding a bike isn't a crime, but I can't cite a law saying that. In America, nothing is a crime UNLESS there is a law making it one. I can't cite the absence of a law, dude.
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Kryptos
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Re: Jeff Sessions to break California's sanctuary laws [Re: Patlal]
#25054349 - 03/10/18 11:54 AM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Patlal said:
Quote:
XUL said:
I think it's strange to you because we have disagreeing premises.
You believe illegal immigrants commit less crime.
I believe those who crossed the border are all criminals (misdemeanor) and then there are the criminals who are very bad people. Yes, there are also good people too.
Further, I wonder if some of these people were criminals from South America who illegally traveled through Mexico?
Let's solve this argument with logic.
Illegal immigrants get shit wages and are therefore poor. Poverty can lead to crime at a higher rate than the wealthy.
Some illegal immigrants are know MS13 members and get regularly arrested. Although the US has it's own gangs this may not prove anything.
Since they are poor, they will live in poor neighborhoods. Poor neighborhoods generally higher crime rate. Again, this might only increase their chances of being victims but given the amount of illegal, surely one of them committed the crime.
The fact that most of them are grateful to be in the US, which would logically lead to them respecting the laws in order to not get picked up.
Conclusion: Too many factors to take in account.
A lot of your tenets here are provably false. Not all illegal immigrants make shit wages. Many are easily in the top 10% of incomes for the US. Guy down the street from me was at one point an illegal immigrant, and his business employs over 20 people.
He also lives in a neighborhood where the average house price is north of a half mil.
Seems pretty happy to be in the US though.
Related: wages and poverty are only related to a certain point. Once you get north of six figures, wages start taking a back seat to investments and other wealth generates wealth type schemes.
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XUL
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Re: Jeff Sessions to break California's sanctuary laws [Re: Enlil]
#25054351 - 03/10/18 11:54 AM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Under federal law, it is a crime for anyone to enter into the US without the approval of an immigration officer -- it's a misdemeanor offense that carries fines and no more than six months in prison.
Border agents are federal agents, are they not?
This also happens. There can be many different outcomes based on the circumstances.
Quote:
Many foreign nationals, however, enter the country legally every day on valid work or travel visas, and end up overstaying for a variety of reasons.
But that's not a violation of federal criminal law -- it's a civil violation that gets handled in immigration court proceedings.
https://www.cnn.com/2017/02/24/politics/undocumented-immigrants-not-necessarily-criminal/index.html
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Kryptos
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Re: Jeff Sessions to break California's sanctuary laws [Re: XUL]
#25054361 - 03/10/18 12:02 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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A civil violation and a criminal violation are two different things.
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Enlil
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Re: Jeff Sessions to break California's sanctuary laws [Re: XUL]
#25054365 - 03/10/18 12:02 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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The easy solution is to let anyone come and go as they please. We really don't need all of these silly immigration laws.
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