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Offlinelines
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Trump Says He Wants More Mental Institutions
    #25028854 - 02/28/18 03:57 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Below is a quote from Trump regarding mental health practices in "the old days".

Quote:

“We have to confront the issue and we have to discuss mental health and we have to do something about it,” the president said. “You know, in the old days we had mental institutions. We had a lot of them. And you could nab somebody like this, because they … knew something was off. You had to know that. People were calling all over the place.”




And how many of those people that were nabbed were harmless? How many hundreds of thousands or millions of people were deprived of liberty because someone got nervous over something that they shouldn't have been nervous about?

People were calling all over the place? That sounds like a really draconian society to be in. Does he not realize that America already has tons of mental institutions and tons of groups homes? Does he realize that almost half the youth has been psychiatrically medicated? There is a lot of psychiatry in American society as it is, likely more in America than anywhere else on the planet.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/26/trump-mental-institutions-424689

Another Trump quote below:

Quote:

Trump said people used to be able to be taken to mental institutions to get help.

“He’s off the streets. You can’t arrest him, I guess, because he hasn’t done anything, but you know he’s like a boiler ready to explode, right?” the president said. “You can’t put him in jail, I guess, because he hasn’t done anything. But in the old days, you would put him into a mental institution.”




Again: how many harmless people lost their liberty and were drugged into a vegetative state by the psychiatric system due to people being nervous about eccentric behaviors that were ultimately harmless?

Are people here familiar with the story of Rosemary Kennedy?

Quote:

In November 1941, when Rosemary Kennedy was 23, doctors told Joseph P. Kennedy, Sr. that a new neurosurgical procedure, lobotomy, would help calm her mood swings and stop her occasional violent outbursts.[15][16] (About 80 lobotomies, 80% on women, had been performed in the United States by the time.) He decided that his daughter should have the lobotomy performed; however, he did not inform his wife Rose of this until after the procedure was completed.[14] Rosemary was strapped to the operating table.[17] James W. Watts, who carried out the procedure with Walter Freeman of Wingdale Psychological and Correctional Facility, described what happened next (as narrated by Ronald Kessler):

"We went through the top of the head, I think she was awake. She had a mild tranquilizer. I made a surgical incision in the brain through the skull. It was near the front. It was on both sides. We just made a small incision, no more than an inch." The instrument Dr. Watts used looked like a butter knife. He swung it up and down to cut brain tissue. "We put an instrument inside", he said. As Dr. Watts cut, Dr. Freeman put questions to Rosemary. For example, he asked her to recite the Lord's Prayer or sing "God Bless America" or count backwards..... "We made an estimate on how far to cut based on how she responded." ..... When she began to become incoherent, they stopped.[18]

After the lobotomy, it quickly became apparent that the procedure was not successful. Kennedy's mental capacity diminished to that of a two-year-old child. She could not walk or speak intelligibly and was incontinent.[19]




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosemary_Kennedy

American paranoia and fear caused a genocide of native Americans. There has been an ongoing culture of fear and hysteria in America. I am not exactly comfortable with news articles saying regarding Cruz "he was a quiet kid". Are quiet kids now going to be seen as mentally ill? Because they're quiet?

American fear of quiet people may be a cultural legacy of American fear of native Americans who were described as "taciturn"(quiet) in the old accounts of them.

Most quiet people are normal. Most Japanese people are quiet and they are the least violent society there is.


Edited by lines (02/28/18 04:01 PM)


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Invisiblerelic
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Re: Trump Says He Wants More Mental Institutions [Re: lines]
    #25029275 - 02/28/18 04:45 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

we've come a long, long way since the days of lobotomizing people. maybe we've come too far wrt medicating children, but that's another discussion.

while trump is doing his normal thing and talking from a position of relative ignorance, we do have a mental health crisis in america today.  take a look at the homeless population and the percentage of those people estimated to have moderate to severe mental health issues.  i think it's fair to say that we've abandoned those people and literally turned them out on the streets.

i get that trump is talking about somehow stopping mass killings by having institutions in which to lock up people who are "like a boiler ready to explode".  but i'm obviously looking at this from a different perspective and if it gets more money allocated to mental health care then i think that's great.

if done correctly, i think that more mental health support is a good thing and i really don't think we'll be locking up people because they're quiet.  i have faith in scientists, perhaps too much at times, and as long as we can keep scientists in charge of mental health while keeping big pharma from influencing the system too much i think it's good to have more options for, and more money spent on, mental health treatment.


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Re: Trump Says He Wants More Mental Institutions [Re: relic]
    #25029278 - 02/28/18 04:48 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Goodbye deinstitutionalization movement


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Re: Trump Says He Wants More Mental Institutions [Re: relic] * 2
    #25029307 - 02/28/18 05:01 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

ronnie raygun accelerated that in early 1980's and now we have mentally ill, homeless veterans (and reg citizens of course) on the streets.  they're forgotten about until they piss on your car tires and 'resist arrest' so they're shot dead by our militarized police.


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Re: Trump Says He Wants More Mental Institutions [Re: relic]
    #25029396 - 02/28/18 05:42 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Hey if we have to lock up weird people who haven't done anything wrong, so gun nuts can keep their toys... isn't that worth it?


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Re: Trump Says He Wants More Mental Institutions [Re: koods]
    #25029474 - 02/28/18 06:18 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

:justno:


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Re: Trump Says He Wants More Mental Institutions [Re: koods]
    #25029640 - 02/28/18 07:46 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Hey if we have to lock up weird people who haven't done anything wrong, so gun nuts can keep their toys... isn't that worth it?




But we could circumvent all of this by simply reinstating eugenics research.  Everyone knows that genetically superior humans don't develop mental illness, shoot up schools, or commit any other manner of crime. 


Just ask this guy


--------------------
A society governed in terms of double standards is self-destructive




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OfflineThundermuscle75
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Re: Trump Says He Wants More Mental Institutions [Re: lines]
    #25030603 - 03/01/18 01:09 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:



And how many of those people that were nabbed were harmless? How many hundreds of thousands or millions of people were deprived of liberty because someone got nervous over something that they shouldn't have been nervous about?




It's true that there abuses in the system. But today long term care is hard to come by.

I have a family member who was in and out of short term treatment and halfway houses for years. There are state run facilities that are supposed to have good long term care. But they can only admit a small fraction of those who need it.


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Re: Trump Says He Wants More Mental Institutions [Re: Thundermuscle75]
    #25030644 - 03/01/18 01:48 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Americans don't want to pay for mental healthcare. That's the long and the short of it. They're rather that mentally ill people toughened up or killed themselves.


--------------------
"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."

Sobriety Bias Syndrome is the tendency for people to erroneously assume that, if there are two competing perceptions of reality, the one that was arrived at while sober must necessarily be the correct one.


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Re: Trump Says He Wants More Mental Institutions [Re: viktor]
    #25030648 - 03/01/18 01:53 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

viktor said:
Americans don't want to pay for mental healthcare. That's the long and the short of it. They're rather that mentally ill people toughened up or killed themselves.




Or live on the streets.


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Re: Trump Says He Wants More Mental Institutions [Re: viktor]
    #25030651 - 03/01/18 01:54 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

During the Reagan years they shut down a lot of mental hospitals and opened up a lot of community mental health centers, which frequently cater to those with neuroses, rather than serious mental illness.

    So in this case I would say Viktor is right.


--------------------
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I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.


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Re: Trump Says He Wants More Mental Institutions [Re: Brian Jones] * 1
    #25030694 - 03/01/18 02:54 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

It's the same in NZ bro. Money to import Muslims and Africans, but no money to take care of our own.


--------------------
"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."

Sobriety Bias Syndrome is the tendency for people to erroneously assume that, if there are two competing perceptions of reality, the one that was arrived at while sober must necessarily be the correct one.


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Re: Trump Says He Wants More Mental Institutions [Re: viktor]
    #25030699 - 03/01/18 03:02 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Poor thing


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Re: Trump Says He Wants More Mental Institutions [Re: lines]
    #25030784 - 03/01/18 04:44 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

I think it's a bad idea to have more mental institutions. They used to force people to get labotomy. You know some narcissistic psycho would love to be in charge of one of those places.


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Re: Trump Says He Wants More Mental Institutions [Re: kent101] * 2
    #25030985 - 03/01/18 08:26 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

kent101 said:

I think it's a bad idea to have more mental institutions.




what's your idea of a solution, then?  what we have now isn't working or adequate.

Quote:

kent101 said:

They used to force people to get labotomy.




operative words: used to

the last lobotomy in the US was performed over 50 years ago and it was voluntary (not sure about that part).


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Re: Trump Says He Wants More Mental Institutions [Re: relic]
    #25031545 - 03/01/18 01:48 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

More mental health institutions, but at the same time we cut funding? Is this going to be run by the Corrections Corporation of America?

Relevant:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sluggish_schizophrenia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drapetomania


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Re: Trump Says He Wants More Mental Institutions [Re: Kryptos] * 2
    #25031570 - 03/01/18 02:00 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

yeah cutting funding isn't going to work even with the current system.

good thing we saved all that money for those one percenters with that recent tax legislation.  oh wait, that's of no help, either.


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Re: Trump Says He Wants More Mental Institutions [Re: relic]
    #25031900 - 03/01/18 04:33 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

relic said:
yeah cutting funding isn't going to work even with the current system.

good thing we saved all that money for those one percenters with that recent tax legislation.  oh wait, that's of no help, either.




Well all that trickle down wealth will lead to higher wages. Higher wages mean we'll be able to afford the very best psychiatric medications.

Right? :mypleasure:


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Re: Trump Says He Wants More Mental Institutions [Re: Nikon Addict] * 1
    #25032251 - 03/01/18 06:08 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

you mean THIS time trickle down is finally going to work?!?  praise be to the gods.  it's a miracle in the making.


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Re: Trump Says He Wants More Mental Institutions [Re: Nikon Addict] * 1
    #25032252 - 03/01/18 06:08 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Trickle down.  It'll work this time.

Edit - Relic beat me by about a second.  :wink:


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