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OfflineThreads from God89
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The Problem with Free Will...?
    #25019721 - 02/25/18 12:39 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Hello fellows....

      So my question right now is, from a Christian point of view.... If God made us in His Image then why did he leave room for evil deeds when it comes to our "free will"???  If we were crafted in His image, then why are things so fucked up?? 

      Why do some human beings act the way they do???  Idk, but I welcome thoughts on this topic...from any point of view.  Agnostic, Christian, Catholic, Athiest, Satanist.... I really am just looking for opinions on this subject!!!  Thank You's!!!


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InvisiblePatrickKn
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Re: The Problem with Free Will...? [Re: Threads from God89] * 2
    #25019874 - 02/25/18 02:58 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

I take the idea that we were created in his image with a slightly different interpretation. Though I don't identify as any particular religion, I find religious mythology an interesting subject and often think of different ways to frame a religious idea or argument to make it appear more logical to me.

If one's interpretation is that God is everything, then God is by some stretch the Universe (on a semantic level, this may be broad - there may be more beyond the observable Universe for example depending from which context you're speaking. In this context however, the Universe is equated with everything that is and ever will be on every parallel). With that, being made in the image of the Universe makes sense to me - we are bound by the same physics that govern all other aspects of reality, we are but images of the full scope that is entirety. Being made in the image of the Universe doesn't impose moral obligations, as those are man-made concepts. Whether we call it God or nature, we find difficulty applying morality to that which we are personifying.

For what it's worth, we do personify God when we attempt to apply human ethics to it. And by doing so we are creating a God that is made in the image of man. I find that one of the ten commandments, "You shall not make for yourself an idol" touches on this subject. While it may be interpreted as a means of not worshiping pagan gods or something, I think that it has a larger meaning of not idolizing God into any image, because by doing so you create a false sense of what God is in the grand scheme of things.

Free will itself I would define as a semantic paradox, not as an absolute truth in any respect. We are bound by the rules that govern everything else, and those rules guide us and guide our decisions as we are made in the image of the Universe, we do not shape the Universe in our image.


Edited by PatrickKn (02/25/18 02:59 AM)


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Re: The Problem with Free Will...? [Re: PatrickKn]
    #25020106 - 02/25/18 08:00 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

I can't see any place for free will in a materialistic universe, and I don't see how anything changes when you add a god, angels, supernatural entities and forces etc.
If there is a god, and he made us all in his image, then I struggle to see how he could have done otherwise; his action was a product of necessity, as would be his existence and everything else about him.
If he created us to behave sometimes goodly and sometimes badly, then it was a necessity for him to do so, he could not have done otherwise, and it is a necessity that we behave as he created us to behave, we cannot do otherwise.

Every experience; decisions, movements, actions, sensations, events etc. simply arise out of the apparent ether. We can tell a story about how, why, what the cause was etc. but those explanations themselves would be necessary products of the way the world happens to be at the instant that they were generated.


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Re: The Problem with Free Will...? [Re: secondorder] * 1
    #25020165 - 02/25/18 08:58 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Probably will is an expression of your personality which is commonly attributed to nature and nurture, both of which are "godly" mega concepts. I don't see the problem in determining freedom of will in the context of slavery: i.e. those who are not enslaved are free.

It is easy to see that one may become partially ensnared, or partially entangled by the desires of self or others.

In each case the godly mega concepts are still consistent even if, out side of slavery one attempts to resolve the term "free". That mistake is also consistent with how nature works.


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OfflineThreads from God89
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Re: The Problem with Free Will...? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25020548 - 02/25/18 01:02 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Interesting.... Thanks for your responses. 

      What about the idea of a "Destiny", what if everything happens for a reason?  Hypothetically here, what if the appearance of "free will" was just an illusion and we were being led by something unknown or unseen???  It's easy to discount that by saying "well I can do anything anytime I want to so I must have free will"....  And that's a good argument for that. 

        So yeah, don't even really know where I'm going with that, lol.


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    I Will Keep the Fire going,  and the Good Wolf fed.......

                    ( We Are All Threads from God.)

                 
                             


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: The Problem with Free Will...? [Re: Threads from God89]
    #25020949 - 02/25/18 03:44 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

it's the echoes of old wives tales and baba yaga

wise men with no clue say it and sound wiser but it makes no sense whatever


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OfflineBlue Wrench
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Re: The Problem with Free Will...? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25022203 - 02/26/18 01:34 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

It has been proven that people who believe in free will tend to work harder at self improvement and are generally happier.

If there is a force of chaos or randomness or infinite complexity acting at every level of our inhabited universe (particularly initial conditions which we are unsure of) then there is a good chance we do have free will. No proof either way, so I simply choose to believe in free will; although chaos theory adds some good padding to this argument.

I can't tackle that question from a religious perspective, I have been trying to for years.


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OfflineMy Elysium Trips
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Re: The Problem with Free Will...? [Re: Threads from God89]
    #25022467 - 02/26/18 06:10 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Threads from God89 said:
Hello fellows....

      So my question right now is, from a Christian point of view.... If God made us in His Image then why did he leave room for evil deeds when it comes to our "free will"???  If we were crafted in His image, then why are things so fucked up?? 

      Why do some human beings act the way they do???  Idk, but I welcome thoughts on this topic...from any point of view.  Agnostic, Christian, Catholic, Athiest, Satanist.... I really am just looking for opinions on this subject!!!  Thank You's!!!





I'm going to speculate, for debate.

I presume "God" is like a Parent! (I'm using the word 'God' for simplicity, not any particular gods, etc.). And if you were a Good Parent. Would you allow your Children to Make mistakes & do their own things, & after parents lay a good foundation of teaching children to "Be Very Careful of XYZ," or "Remember to take care of your (XYZ, let's say Health)." Etc..

So, a Good Patent would earnestly try to teach their Children what to do & what not to do. But then they have to Practice on their Very own. Because who would Want children they order around like literal Robots? So, parents don't Want their Children to Make Some Big Mistakes, but then again - knows their Children Will inevitably make mistakes because you gave more of the "leash" for them to wonder more & such. So, If your child say is riding too fast on a bicycle & scraps his knee or something; That is not as bad or comparable to if his leg after the knee was Removed via an accident with a Vehicle.

In other words, you Try to rear your Children properly, but you give them More Freedom & hope for the Best; as a Child is by Definition basically, Their Own Individual Person in a youthful body. So, parents would Not Want to have to control their kids like Robots, you would teach them, & then let them have Freedom to be Individuals that can either Bless or be Sinful. So, it's not because a Bad Creator that the World is like it is. But because a lot of Living is Based upon Freewill, or using your conscience &/or Consciousness to determine your own actions, Freewill is the Reason for Many things problematic with the World & society, but still Better than having No Options to be Free, etc..

So, I see it like this, People cannot be Free & Also have Limits on their Actions Before that Action has Happened, & be a Free Person! Or, Freedoms Allow People to live without Tyranny & Dictatorship, & it Should Only be After any Crimes are Committed that People face repercussions for actions. Otherwise, People wouldn't be Free!

So, because I believe a Good Deity would Want Free People, Freewill would be a requisite to continue to be able to both be Free & have a Freewill. Otherwise it would be more Oppression, & less Individuals.

So, if you could have chosen, Either to have a Freewill & your own ability to basically "drive" yourself, Or be perpetually a Passengers & Not even know how to Drive yourself but you're more or less someone who is Only Observing via the Senses, but is Robotic in all other ways?

So, it's a Dilemma, Freewill of People = People are Free (for various outcomes like blessing & cursing, etc.). Or conversely, Life is less Tragic, But if it is being Subjugated by an "overlord" (dictators) who only allows you to follow Instructions or Orders & doesn't let you be yourself! Both could be Tragic, but Freewill seems like a Better Options, yes? Like Free Willie, the Whale of a Tale!

It would be the different between Billions of Prisoners, & Same Number of People Free to do their Will! So, the Free People to use their wills to enact things is arguably a Tremendous Reason why the World is tragic in Many ways. In other words, it's either Freedoms or Oppression. Without a Freewill, that is Oppression. And I don't believe a Good God would Want to Oppress, but since they have their Freedoms to choose many things - things are More dynamic & whimsical & contingent, etc..

So, I know that without having the Options to even attempt certain thing's without being struck dead from the Sin, that is more Oppressive than having the Options to Sin & then face the conscience for actions. So, If there was No Cause & Effects to attempt things yourself, then People wouldn't be Free Individuals! Now, let's be Reasonable about the extrapolations of this, but the Premise remains!

So, it would be like a Lab Guinea Pigs were No Freewill was available, but with Freedom's it would be like driving your own Vehicles, where you can be safe or be a little dangerous & Maybe go 15 miles per hour over the speed limit, & doing things you want in your own Vehicles. But those driving Know, Vehicular Accident happen daily & it's possible something Could,happen to them While driving, but most people Want that option anyways.

So, don't you see the Dilemma? It would be like making Illegal People piloting their own Vehicles & only allowing them Public Transportation. This is an analogy of Freewill. Sure, Only Trains driving with Autopilots at the Wheel would reduce many Accidental & Death's & Tragedies, but would it be better to Have the Options to drive yourself or Another person driving besides an Autopiloted Train or whatever?

I see this is a Good Example for People to Ponder. But there are probably countless other examples, but the is enough to see why Freewill can be Dangerous, But Imperative to being a Individual Being that is Conscious & Able to be yourself & have Driving Powers over yourself! I believe this anyways - for speculation of the argument in OP.

P.S., I swear I'm having difficulty posting Key words that get changed, like a discredit by hackers or hijackers. But they will get what is coming, whether they believe in Divine Intervention & Divine Justice or not, Judgment Day is coming soon for Everyone, one second here & the next you're vindicated or not. Not by earthly people, something inexplicable. So, the majority of people will Enter the Kingdom. But Many will Not, even if they are Self- Righteous in themself! Etc. 

My Elysium Trips


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Remember that Life is But a Trip, & Tripping is Perpetual, Whether Sober or not. So, Tripping isn't anything but going along on a Trip.

My Elysium Trips


Edited by My Elysium Trips (02/26/18 01:14 PM)


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OfflineMy Elysium Trips
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Re: The Problem with Free Will...? [Re: secondorder]
    #25022474 - 02/26/18 06:25 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

secondorder said:
I can't see any place for free will in a materialistic universe, and I don't see how anything changes when you add a god, angels, supernatural entities and forces etc.
If there is a god, and he made us all in his image, then I struggle to see how he could have done otherwise; his action was a product of necessity, as would be his existence and everything else about him.
If he created us to behave sometimes goodly and sometimes badly, then it was a necessity for him to do so, he could not have done otherwise, and it is a necessity that we behave as he created us to behave, we cannot do otherwise.

Every experience; decisions, movements, actions, sensations, events etc. simply arise out of the apparent ether. We can tell a story about how, why, what the cause was etc. but those explanations themselves would be necessary products of the way the world happens to be at the instant that they were generated.






Interesting how you articulated that.

I find it seemingly cogent with this assertion, but I also cannot Know exactly what I could add as like edification. Or, I'm going to Ponder this concept, the "God" had No Other Options except Create Everything the way it is. I guess I cannot refute nor confute that, but interesting to wonder if "God" had any Options Prior to the Manifest Creation that everyone conscious has some awareness of Something that is Evident to them.

So, to wonder what Options God actually had, makes one wonder if that is like saying, "God didn't have a Freewill to Create Anything," but was Forced to Create & Everything else. If so, that would make Everyone & Everything Automated in a Way, Even God would be Automated. So, I just cannot grasp this in any logical ways, but interesting anyways.

My Elysium Trips


--------------------
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Remember that Life is But a Trip, & Tripping is Perpetual, Whether Sober or not. So, Tripping isn't anything but going along on a Trip.

My Elysium Trips


Edited by My Elysium Trips (02/26/18 06:28 AM)


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Re: The Problem with Free Will...? [Re: Threads from God89]
    #25022522 - 02/26/18 07:19 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Didn't Adam and Eve eat the fruit and damn themselves to a life of suffering?


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OfflineMy Elysium Trips
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Re: The Problem with Free Will...? [Re: XUL]
    #25022967 - 02/26/18 12:15 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

XUL said:
Didn't Adam and Eve eat the fruit and damn themselves to a life of suffering?





No, I think I know who you're Talking about. I just need to find the reference, then I'll show you in a second.

Okay, that was "Adam & Steve," not Adam & Eve.

Heh, just a joke. But seriously, Adam sounds like "Atom," & Eve - basically can mean the Dawn of Something.

So, using this musing, it could be said, Atom was the Dawning!

So, in Genesis, first People Recorded - Adam & Even. Or Atom & Eve of New Worlds.

Sounds very similar, right?

So, about Adam & Eve, it sounds like a depressing story. Basically they were Good, until Eve got Tempted by a Serpent & consumed the Only Stipulation that Creator Gave, & basically it was the Fall of (a) Man. Amen?

So, apparently it was Eve who disobeyed God, then Adam told God, "This Woman did it, she initiated the Meltdown." Etc.. It could be said.


So, Adam, or (a) Atom, was doing his job per that time, & Eve Disobeyed God's Request, partook of what was Forewarned about, & hence afterwards is Today! So, It doesn't Explicitly say in Bible that Adam & Eve were the First & Only People alive. Just like New Testament doesn't eve'n mention 3 Wise Men (kings) from the East. It told the 3 Gifts they brought to the Newborn King. Etc., per Scriptures & lore.

So, I would just say, Be Aware that the Creator God, Probably already Knew What Adam & Eve would do. Eve'n So, it might have Not exclusively been Eves Fault, it might have been a combination of things. So, I am going to go out on a limb & say, it might have been Forordained by God & then to Bring about Plan of Salvation of the Ship of Earth. So, it isn't easy to say Exactly, & Maybe only God knows, but it is recorded in OT Bible for some reason. Who exactly wrote the Bible & when & where, etc., I can only speculate. But I do know that I grew up hearing about Adam & Eve, & basically have the sense that it's a Proverbial Story from maybe BC, etc.. Allegedly Moses Wrote the Tenach, but I also don't have to proclaim I know the OT Moses, per se, Either. So, Moses might have been a Real Person, but it might be wrapped up in some Lores, too. Etc.. Like, What person today has a Photograph (not a painting) of Moses from Egyptian time prior to the Exodus? I would say that If People proclaimed they Somehow got a Literal Photograph of Moses, I assume Many wouldn't believe that & anyone who wanted to check that, Would demand some Authenticity Documents or Something to give evidence for their claims. So, if we could literally Time Travel to just Observe the Moses Days like Maybe 2k years before Christ, it would settle the issue really Quick about What exactly happened, & Maybe even Adam & Eve, & Christ, from Bible times, etc., all them people. But until then, I can only take heed to the Scriptures, but also be Real & remain Agnostics about What Literally Happened compared to what is Recorded. Etc..

But, Maybe even kindred of Adam & Eve are Eve'n on these Forum's today, looking to start an underground Pizza Shop, or whatever. Or, thing's can be too ironical at times. And what is Hidden & what is Seen, arguably what is Hidden is Seen, but to who's eyes?

But, Regardless of whether the Weather is going to be changing, the beatings of Storms make Plants & Animals strong. Like without much wind & rain, the Plants wouldn't be able to support their own weight. So, sometimes it takes difficulty to get stronger, & not just physically either.

And, I See life as a Perpetual Trip, even if Sober, you are still Tripping in the Sober Dimension, but your mind is just More acclimated to that to feel grounded, etc.. But what Is Reality & what isn't Reality, that is the Question. Or, you can be sure that if you jump off a 2 foot stepping stool, you are going to end up falling until you get balanced by the resistance of the Ground or Floor, etc.. But exactly how the Creation is supposed to be Seen in a Certain Perspective of Objective Reality, I would contend that Reality is what People believe is Real to Them, many times! So, everyone has Different Realities, but many things can be agreed upon, like if you turn a flashlight on in a dark room, you should see better if you have good eyes & a bright torch light. If you extrapolate Newtons words of "What Goes up must come down," to Eating Foods, it could be said, What Goes In - Must be used / held or Passed Out! Etc.. And many could agree that Many other things are true, too. But Reality many Times is Faith by the Observer's or Witnesses of Something. Like, it's True that I recently made a Porta Potty for a Pet, but this is reality to what I did, & others Reality might be they don't have Animals for pet's, etc.. So if I'm being honest about the "pet porta potty," then either it's True or False, but arguably many couldn't care & don't Need / Want to Know that. So, Reality can be Objective & Subjective. And Eve'n I advocate people Question what is "Objective Reality," & Even question what your reality is. Like, how do we know that we Know things? It is Faith Based many times, as I even could be Dreaming as I write this, & I might actually be having a Lucid Dream.

So, I believe I'm awake & posting online, but What Is Awake & what is Dreaming? Both usually seem Credible during the Moment's of Even Sleeping, so it is possible that Dreaming is like being Beamed up to the Starship Enterprise, or something. Like People's Body usually stay in the place they Slept. But what if this "Reality" that People Experience, Is just a Dream that is Happening Elsewhere & could be compared to Total Recall? So, to Presume that the Only things that exist are what People Believe is Real; Basically that would be subjective & moot. For example, If All People can proclaim as Objective Reality is what is experienced on Earth, its Possible Earth might be a Collections of Sleepers who are Dreaming on the Same Planet. Maybe not a Good Dream per se, but Dreaming isn't Always having Rendezvous with your Gender of Choice - Wet Dreams, etc.. So, A Main Liner could say, I don't even know if I'm Dreaming Now!

So, just because I basically am ignorant about Everything that I am not aware of, it doesn't Negate the fact that other things are happening that individuals are unaware about. So, this World could be a Holographic Simulation for all I can presume. Sure, it Seems Real, But What would Virtual Reality be like on say 2k years from now? What about 200k years from now? What about 2 million years from now? Etc., etc..

So, this is Only speculation of what Could be Possible. But what is Real & what is Not, many times people should even be weary of their Own Fallibility, nevermind the Telephone Games where the Stories just keep on exaggerating or being skewed along the way. So, I question many things, & it is Only by Questioning that you have a reason to search more or dig deeper. But life is a Big Mystery, What is known today might be old news tomorrow, & eventually the "Modern Breakthroughs" of today might be Obsolete in Next Generation of Even 20 years. So, believing & knowing are similar but different. And many people use the words "Know," or using Anecdotal "Facts," as thing's that they just believe & otherwise don't have substance to support that. Etc.. So, I would recommend people Question More things that interest them, then keep searching & listen to many differing sources of information, then play Detective Work on what seems real & fake, then keep some kind of Mission Until the day of the Departure from this Body & World. But I cannot imagine anything except life is some sort of Test, & I wonder if the Test is simply avoiding Conflicts & Trouble & Keeping Integrity, etc.. So, it's like Any Video Game, there is some Objective / Mission to do in the Game to pass time & Maybe Beat the Game! So, by Saying this, I suppose I could offend many people; But How Long is even 100 years relative to the Scope of Eternity? And would not Eternal Beings Want something to "pass the time away," & encounter Challenges & Trials & Tribulations, to basically Play in Simulations that might not even be Disclosed much in the Simulation Game? So, If Spirits are Eternal, & if Everyone has a Spirit, & if Spirits Can Enter maybe Light-year ahead Simulations of entering into a Dimension that Seems Real, but the Gamers cannot Know as they were Born into the Simulation. This would no doubt make Many People mad to hear, but at the same time, it just is a philosophy to Ponder & Think about What another 2k years will bring & so forth. Then it might become clear, Many things might not be Crystal Clear & to at least questions if Life is some Test of People's Character & such. So, Adam & Eve, might have been Eve of Atoms & Atoms in a Simulation that Another Dimension began long ago to somehow use for Something important.

Anyways, please excuse these whimsical notions. I need to get Pizza from Underground! And recently - got Eve on Ignore! If that could even be said in a logics sense or not. But PTL, Witches can be a Brewing over something else!

My Elysium Trips


--------------------
I MET ME-T, or M-ET, on Voyages via My Elysium Trips.

Remember that Life is But a Trip, & Tripping is Perpetual, Whether Sober or not. So, Tripping isn't anything but going along on a Trip.

My Elysium Trips


Edited by My Elysium Trips (02/26/18 12:54 PM)


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: The Problem with Free Will...? [Re: My Elysium Trips] * 1
    #25023717 - 02/26/18 03:09 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Have you also considered the names "Adam" and "Eve" in their original hebrew context ?!
It sounds like what is god backwards....
You know, that what you propose is only true for the translation of their names into your language ?
I propose the spirit&religion sub-forum for you.


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: The Problem with Free Will...? [Re: Threads from God89]
    #25024032 - 02/26/18 04:21 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Threads from God89 said:
Hello fellows....

      So my question right now is, from a Christian point of view.... If God made us in His Image then why did he leave room for evil deeds when it comes to our "free will"???  If we were crafted in His image, then why are things so fucked up?? 

      Why do some human beings act the way they do???  Idk, but I welcome thoughts on this topic...from any point of view.  Agnostic, Christian, Catholic, Athiest, Satanist.... I really am just looking for opinions on this subject!!!  Thank You's!!!



Maybe g*d had/s free will too ? :wink:

But free will is essential in my regards. It discerns us from the 'lower' creatures in life. In fact it seems a evolutionary ladder, where to the more of it we have, the more it makes it probable to survive.

In fact, if we wouldn't have a free will, a possibility to discerne, decide, recollect and struggle, we would live in a much more automated conscious state.
That's what the elite (or any other a**hole who wants us to brainwash into doing what they want) wants us to fall back into :wink:

I came to the conclusion, that those choices are those that matter. In the 'Book of Life', every choice is a meaningful one. One that can push forward living, or pushes it back into where it came from.

We have that choice :sunny: :heart:

edit: and where it could come from in a physical world ? If quantum phenomena/fluctuation can be registered in empty space, why shouldn't it have effects in out brains for 'random' thoughts.
But just alone the 'butterfly-effect', or the overlapping effect of many systems have huge variances in their possible out-comings. Not even knowing what is effecting what. Whatsoever lul


Edited by BlueCoyote (02/26/18 04:43 PM)


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Re: The Problem with Free Will...? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #25025326 - 02/27/18 03:34 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

We will tackle the issue of freewill.. in its own category.. for it has a meaning that nothing else means, shelled egg, ongoutengaime.. Tensory strings pulled by ropes.. of the marionettes of hope and love. Sun is the man who can do things, the messiah! Is a holy christ situation.. to borrow the proper logic, therefore free will is eternally true. Sick veins through and through.. A thorough investigation of the applied terms of the law, as a liber, and as a chaos.. Order is more prenchant than beautiful.. for if it was the last word it would say?

Well that's precisely what freewill is.. and I am expressing it here in this forum, as a rotten duck, and egg..


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: The Problem with Free Will...? [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #25025366 - 02/27/18 04:24 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Freewill is only a problem if it is.. With this insight we can determine whether there is a problem with freewill.. Thus time travelling is about set and setting.. but eternity will always be with you.. going around the clock is the army of the twelve monkeys.. which are time recorded around the world.. with each tic of the clock.. is a alabaster moment called an elixir.. each refreshing new view of time is like citrine lime.. perfectly sublime and noticable to the palette. Taste is one thing but the devils argument is worse than you.. that if you lie again.. not even christ can save you.. easier going eager regards.. with the penchance of regulation.. which is both an ability to price source our freewill with new and available monetary units.. such is the case of last history..


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: The Problem with Free Will...? [Re: Threads from God89]
    #25025608 - 02/27/18 08:48 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

If God made us in His Image then why did he leave room for evil deeds when it comes to our "free will"???  If we were crafted in His image, then why are things so fucked up??




You're asking for an answer to an illogical question. You can only get an illogical answer if the baseis of the question are assumed to be correct/factual.

God in this case is existence and everything and whether we deem it good or evil it is "of God". There is room for everything to be just like it is. Free will is likely just an idea based on the illusory nature of choice. Things being fucked up is a subjective viewpoint. What's actually happening is opposing forces colliding, not so different from two heavenly and organized bodies obliterating one another... order and entropy. Brahma the creator, Vishnu the preserver, and Shiva the destroyer. These God figures describe the cyclic nature of reality. They are not real entities except in our imagination, created to convey a descriptive vision of our experience rather than a fantasy that conflicts with reality and demands more and more nonsensical questions and answers.

The problem with free will is that it's an oxymoron when taken at it's classical meaning.

Freeness is a feeling and a relative amount of agency based on interference or lack thereof by other humans, animals, or other forces of nature. Will is the desire which drives us to do the things we do. Therefore one has free will if they act without interference. Trying to infer more complicated things only makes the phrase confusing.


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rahz

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“I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather did. Not screaming in terror like the passengers in his car."


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: The Problem with Free Will...? [Re: Rahz]
    #25025694 - 02/27/18 09:59 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

like non-slavery, or unstuckness.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: The Problem with Free Will...? [Re: Threads from God89] * 1
    #25026766 - 02/27/18 07:09 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Threads from God89 said:
So my question right now is, from a Christian point of view.... If God made us in His Image then why did he leave room for evil deeds when it comes to our "free will"???  If we were crafted in His image, then why are things so fucked up?? 




I have posted analyses of free will before & will not repeat.

However if we play by your assumptions the answer is obvious, since (as you say) humans are in God's image, and humans are jerks (by your own admission) then God too must be a jerk, leading to the result you describe and call "evil" & "F'dup".

For bonus points you could wonder if 'free will' implies wisdom /intelligence? & does such a God, as the above, have either, itself.

Lastly if one takes 'a Christian point of view' seriously, in spite of its being as amazingly contradictory as it is, as you yourself point out, it would seem sensible to question oneself as to one's 'free will' and intelligence.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: The Problem with Free Will...? [Re: laughingdog]
    #25027429 - 02/27/18 11:10 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

it's entirely sensible and seemingly encouraged to defy, deviate, and find truth outside of, the Christian religion, and even Judaism. funny enough, even Islam, with it's premise of "nothing is prevised" and "humans have free-will" and "everything under God must be rational, because God is totally rational, as he is all-encompassing".

:shrug:

(many times a shrug)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
like non-slavery, or unstuckness.



you can remain "unstuck" in yourself, but you can't move, or else you're stuck again. very strange, it's almost like it doesn't make any logical sense.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: The Problem with Free Will...? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #25027976 - 02/28/18 07:34 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

logic is just a stylistic when it comes to ratiocination.
like fashion is to clothing.


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