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InvisibleThayendanegeaS
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Re: Drinking alcohol is the key to living past 90, study says. [Re: Asante]
    #25007871 - 02/20/18 01:47 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Like Mick said, this is nothing new....they've known for along time that 1 or 2 drinks a day was good for your heart. However, when you go beyond that, the numbers nose dive the other way. Personally, I could never drink 1 or 2 of anything.:shrug:


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InvisibleOhMrJohnson
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Re: Drinking alcohol is the key to living past 90, study says. [Re: Thayendanegea]
    #25008040 - 02/20/18 02:58 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

I've pretty much mastered the art of moderation when it comes to alcohol

I can take a nice phat sip from the bottle and just put it down after that with zero desire to imbibe in more

But that's mostly because my DOC is cannabis so most nights I don't even drink at all but after learning this I'll probably start taking a sip every night


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InvisibleDustBunnyM

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Re: Drinking alcohol is the key to living past 90, study says. [Re: Thayendanegea]
    #25009169 - 02/20/18 09:50 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

It's not so simple, hence the reason "healthy" has gone from 1-4+/day. Coffee has been great for our cardiovascular system, then bad, and repeated several times. There are the (seemingly) obvious benefits/detriment- Alcohol thins the blood, as well as loosens/dissolves fat. On the other hand, in excess it often damages every organ of our body by multiple mechanisms. Ultimately, we understand nothing about longevity. Some smokers in areas with horrible air quality have lower rates of respiratory problem/detriment than the control. Obviously, this is extremely unusual compared to what we believe we know. There are many people losing their vision, and very considerable cognitive decline and overall organ failure from daily heavy drinking by age 30. Yet, there are a significant amount of people approaching 100 that have drank that much for decades.

In any case, I assume the most consistent factor in longevity is happiness/low-stress and healthy activity (muscles). Stress does kill. Drinking heavily does not equal low stress, it often is an indicator of extremely high stress/discontent level and gradually worsening heart rate fluctuations, leading to a weaker, then failing heart. My heart rate raised to 180-200 within 12hrs while at my worse/heaviest consumption. I was drinking predominately do to stress at the time. Occasionally, despite being well-drunk, big enough stress led to my heart rate to rise that much. That's considerably more dangerous than a non-drinker's raising so much. As is such a heart rate in any sort of significant alcohol withdrawal.

Were I actively trying to live as long/healthy as possible, I would live as my longest ancestors did. Genetics are inarguably a big factor, and harmful or beneficial things affect different people (genes) differently. If we know anything, it's that one-size does not fit all in almost every aspect of our bodies.


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OfflinePatlal
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Re: Drinking alcohol is the key to living past 90, study says. [Re: DustBunny]
    #25009183 - 02/20/18 09:53 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

I'm playing it safe.

I'm drinking 5 cups of coffee and 10 ounces of alcohol a day. That should cover the daily recommendation. I don't take chances, I take a little bit more than recommended.


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InvisibleDustBunnyM

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Re: Drinking alcohol is the key to living past 90, study says. [Re: Patlal]
    #25009291 - 02/20/18 10:37 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Sarcasm? Recommended is recommended, meaning extra is extraneous. More is absolutely not always safer. 10oz of pure ethanol per day? That's 25 standard drinks. 5 cups of coffee means nothing, since one can brew coffee as strong/weak as desired. Also, the aromatics in coffee seem to be a significant aspect of why it has shown to be beneficial.

I drink one cup each morning, but it contains 2 volumetric cups of fresh grounds (to 2c water). With 1/8c grounds the most commonly used standard- despite artisanal coffee shops and even giant chains using twice that or more- my "one cup" has ~16 standard cups worth. While the majority of coffee-drinkers in the US would (and have IME) dry heave after a miniscule sip, it contains dangerous amounts of caffeine to anyone without an extreme tolerance.
Higher concentration leads to drastically greater blood levels than 16 "standard/eighth" cups. Same principal as to why it's physically impossible to get higher than certain BAC levels from low ABV drinks (the water). 

TL;DR
If you aren't being facetious- if concentrated coffee doses are detrimental to a every/anyone, 5 cups of "standard" coffee is safer than one cup brewed with the same amount of grounds. Again, though, we just don't know. I'd personally speculate that at least low amounts of coffee are not terribly unhealthy, however were I playing it safe, I'd limit it to a shotglass of my same preferred concentration, and instead drink much more tea (including some powdered/"Matcha". Assuming I didn't already drink a lot of tea in the first place, as too much of that can be harmful, too.


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InvisibleSalomon
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Re: Drinking alcohol is the key to living past 90, study says. [Re: shadyy]
    #25009407 - 02/20/18 11:38 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

shadyy said:
Yeah, I've always read that moderate consumption is very beneficial.


I stash whiskey with my cleaning supplies.

Also keep warm beer in the ceiling of my back office.

And a flask behind the jukebox in the bar, it's not a big deal.





theres a bottle of vodka indise the back part of your toilet dont even lie.:glorious:


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InvisibleThayendanegeaS
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Re: Drinking alcohol is the key to living past 90, study says. [Re: Salomon]
    #25010854 - 02/21/18 05:05 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

A new study came out today that links a much higher rate of dementia for people who "abuse" alcohol....in other words, alcoholics. I think it was around a 16% higher chance of getting either early onset dementia...(before you're 40) or standard old peoples dementia.
I can certainly believe this as should anyone who has lived with a wet alcoholic. The short term memory is completely shot and they wind up repeating themselves over and over.....I know because I was one for awhile and also lived with an active alcoholic that drove me and everyone around her crazy for years after I got sober.


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OfflineKonyap

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Re: Drinking alcohol is the key to living past 90, study says. [Re: Thayendanegea]
    #25011524 - 02/21/18 09:08 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

This is a terrible fucking study no it is not

alcohol is a sanitizer that's why we drink it
it damages every organ it comes into contact with
that's like saying smoking tobbacco cures emphesma... weed just dries out your lungs a little
alcohol sets off your body temperature to fight a cold
you should not procreate after drinking alcohol or drink during pregnancy!!!
alcohol is a very dangerous drug, amy winehouse even died from alcohol withdrawl, just died dry heaving other people drink so much their blood  get's crystalized and hits their heart
other people lose their life or fortune on alcohol

this is just click bait bullshit and we all know what kind of people post this kinda shit, this is tabloid journalism!! drugs are bad m'kay


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OfflineKonyap

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Re: Drinking alcohol is the key to living past 90, study says. [Re: Patlal]
    #25011537 - 02/21/18 09:11 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
THe healthiest is tequila. It comes from agave, not sugar. You will notice that after a while drinking more of it doesn't increase the buzz. So you'll keep on drinking, then you'll be super drunk and feel as if you've only had a few. It's a weird phenomenon...




my friend and i and several other people from groups I won't name name's drank that shit until we were fucking crazy blasted out of our minds like on the verge of falling on the ground and just dying right there what the fuck are you people saying?!


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OfflineT-Funkadelic
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Re: Drinking alcohol is the key to living past 90, study says. [Re: Konyap]
    #25011572 - 02/21/18 09:19 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Now I actually feel like I don't have a drinking problem. I've been questioning myself lately.  Thanks for the support.:thumbup:


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Invisibleplasma

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Re: Drinking alcohol is the key to living past 90, study says. [Re: Thayendanegea] * 1
    #25011590 - 02/21/18 09:23 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Thayendanegea said:
A new study came out today that links a much higher rate of dementia for people who "abuse" alcohol....in other words, alcoholics. I think it was around a 16% higher chance of getting either early onset dementia...(before you're 40) or standard old peoples dementia.
I can certainly believe this as should anyone who has lived with a wet alcoholic. The short term memory is completely shot and they wind up repeating themselves over and over.....I know because I was one for awhile and also lived with an active alcoholic that drove me and everyone around her crazy for years after I got sober.





I read this article.
56.5% of early-onset dimentia is alcohol related

Yes, you might live a little longer if you drink x amount of alcohol a day. But it could also negate that benefit by hindering your ability to enjoy that extended life span with health problems and disease


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Offlinefinally home
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Re: Drinking alcohol is the key to living past 90, study says. [Re: Konyap]
    #25011603 - 02/21/18 09:27 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

drinking your own beer is the secret to living to 900


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Re: First trip after a ten plus year break. Beautiful Sedona [Re: Jakona]
    #25011814 - 02/21/18 10:55 PM (15 hours, 51 minutes ago)
Edit postEdit  Reply to this postReply  Reply to this postQuote  Quick ReplyQuick Reply

ty much


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: Drinking alcohol is the key to living past 90, study says. [Re: plasma]
    #25011607 - 02/21/18 09:27 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

I say horse shit on the news story.

LOT's of people live a long time that never drink.  I'd bet that drinking over all lowers the chance of living longer.

It's like having studies of people from a generation that smoked a lot.  Sure, there is going to be people that smoked and lived a long time.  Sure as shit doesn't mean smoking is the key to living longer.

If they said being stupid was the key to living long...does it make it so?  And would more people admit to being stupid?  Perhaps even more effort to being stupid?


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Drinking alcohol is the key to living past 90, study says. [Re: Morel Guy]
    #25011723 - 02/21/18 10:16 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Its true that alcohol in moderation is helpful for your heart and circulation. However that benefit is more than offset by the increased risk of cancer and other diseases. They have not been able to show overall greater health or longer life from alcohol. That said, a small amount of beer or wine might be slightly beneficial but the risk of alcoholism makes even that doubtful

What is good about wine is the other goodies in it like resveratrol, etc, not the alcohol. Same story with coffee, the anti oxidants etc are good for you but the caffeine is not. Non alcohol beer or wine might be very good. Or just drink, grape juice

Vitamins are good for health, whoever told you they live less long is lying. In moderation and so on, too much of anything is bad even water


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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InvisibleDustBunnyM

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Re: Drinking alcohol is the key to living past 90, study says. [Re: Thayendanegea] * 2
    #25012275 - 02/22/18 03:08 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Thayendanegea said:
A new study came out today that links a much higher rate of dementia for people who "abuse" alcohol....in other words, alcoholics. I think it was around a 16% higher chance of getting either early onset dementia...(before you're 40) or standard old peoples dementia.
I can certainly believe this as should anyone who has lived with a wet alcoholic. The short term memory is completely shot and they wind up repeating themselves over and over.....I know because I was one for awhile and also lived with an active alcoholic that drove me and everyone around her crazy for years after I got sober.





There has been plenty of those, fortunately and unfortunately..  :crazy: would only add that many common Rx's, especially but far from only benzodiazepines cause  the same. That said, while certain cultures glorify Alprazolam habits, most everyone accepts the obvious proof (even  the highest profile celebrities /rappers after a seizure or few. I assume significant exasperation, and much less creating dementia is common with 1-4 standard drinks/day, for the majority of Americans and citizens of other countries with generations of alcoholism, but that is an assumption. Plus, for us Americans, we are constantly changing things by adding novel food additives to what we (or most people, at least) daily- there is an overwhelming rate of what were insanely rare cancers being diagnosed  today strongly correlated with the new diet "Zero" sodas (have a Tab). It'd be foolish to assume they only cause such, and overlook all of the other new additives/preservatives, compared to the much simpler processed foods of baby boomers.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Drinking alcohol is the key to living past 90, study says. [Re: DustBunny]
    #25012674 - 02/22/18 10:41 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

DB that is very true about the additives to our food being mostly untested at least in the long run and possibly doing us a lot of harm. Aspartame for example was pushed through via political pressure and many people have a problem with it. Its associated with cns problems already.

MSG is another one to avoid, I try not to use much processed foods and mostly buy organic. Benzos are well known to cause loss of memory and dementia, they are hard drugs, imo. Other sleeping pills have been implicated too.

The beneficial properties of alcoholic drinks has not been established. But a glass of wine or one or two beers a day probably do no harm from the little bit of alcohol and the other goodies will do some good.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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InvisibleDustBunnyM

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Re: Drinking alcohol is the key to living past 90, study says. [Re: Stonehenge]
    #25015063 - 02/23/18 04:12 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

That is not what I said at all-

Actually, aspartame is extremely benign regarding other common artificial sweetness. As I mentioned in my last post "(if drinking diet cola,) have a Tab". The original diet soda, which contained aspartame. It is a perfect example of ~70's processed food being far more natural than today. People got sued for advertising <50% cheese as cheese. It contained ~51% healthy vegetable fat.  They changed that, adding  a multitude of near completely novel chemicals. It is very much seeming to be a huge factor in the unheard of cancers(/rates) popping upi

I agree about real beer probably having little-no detriment at 1-2 (standard, i.e. only one 10% imperial ___) drinks. That said, and being the devil's advocate, we have no idea if it's caused by  the ethanol, and/or is simply result of centuries of your ancestors drinking " heavy" by today. At earliest, drinking almost exclusively beer from it being  sanitized.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Drinking alcohol is the key to living past 90, study says. [Re: DustBunny]
    #25015766 - 02/23/18 01:18 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

http://www.sweetpoison.com/aspartame-information.html

Quote:

The structure of aspartame seems simple, but what a complicated structure aspartame really is. Two isolated amino acids in aspartame are fused together by its third component, deadly methanol. In this structure, methanol bonds the two amino acids together, but when released at a mere 86 degrees Fahrenheit, the methanol becomes a poisonous free radical.

Methanol breaks down into formic acid and formaldehyde, embalming fluid. Methanol is a dangerous neurotoxin, a known carcinogen, causes retinal damage in the eye, interferes with DNA replication, and causes birth defects.
Aspartic acid makes up forty percent of the structure of aspartame. Under excess conditions, the structure of aspartic acid can cause endocrine (hormone) disorders and vision problems. Aspartic acid is a neuroexicter, which means its structure affects the central nervous system. Hyperactivity is stimulated by aspartic acid, so this structure is not good for ADD/ADHD conditions and should be avoided during pregnancy.
Adverse reactions to aspartic acid are: headaches/migraines, nausea, abdominal pain, fatigue, sleep disorders, vision problems, anxiety attacks, depression, and asthma/chest tightness. The second isolated amino acid in aspartame's chemical structure is phenylalanine, fifty percent of aspartame's 3-D structure. Too much phenylalanine causes seizures, elevated blood plasma, is dangerous for pregnancy causing retardation, PMS caused by phenylalanine's blockage of serotonin, insomnia, and severe mood swings.




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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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InvisibleDustBunnyM

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Re: Drinking alcohol is the key to living past 90, study says. [Re: Stonehenge]
    #25025371 - 02/27/18 04:33 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

:confused: Our bodies produce more methanol from a serving of fruit than many packets of "Sweet 'n Low" artificial sweetener or knock-off containing aspartame or 0.3L roughly of several different types of spirits.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/9267548/

The aspartame = carcinogenic/causes methanol production was the first, and easily perhaps the most widespread (generations later, people still believe it) knowingly false health scare/scam. It's just like the DARE propaganda (of the US) which uses pics of massive brain damage from known, well-past-lethal doses of meth given to rats, as regular effects of meth and MDMA.

Aspartame also has direct or indirect slight NMDA antagonism, which have shown to reverse GABAnergic excitotoxicity damage (and vice versa). We have no idea what regularly, daily consumption of it does, but the myth/exaggeration of its risks is well documented. In any case, older food products containing aspartame and less added chemicals as a  whole are associated with far less risk of what were rare cancers and disorders becoming more common with the next wave of artifical sweetners+flavoring agent combos, and  even more with the newest "Zero"'s


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Drinking alcohol is the key to living past 90, study says. [Re: DustBunny]
    #25032271 - 03/01/18 06:16 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2017/08/29/aspartame-health-risks.aspx

Quote:

After following 474 diet soda drinkers for nearly 10 years, researchers found that the drinkers' waists grew 70 percent more than the waists of non-diet soda drinkers. Further, those who drank two or more diet sodas a day had a 500 percent greater increase in waist size.1,2 A similar study published in 2015 also revealed a "striking dose-response relationship" between diet soda consumption and waist circumference.

People who never drank diet soda increased their waist circumference by an average of 0.8 inches during the nine-year observation period, while daily diet soda drinkers gained an average of nearly 3.2 inches — quadruple that of those who abstained from diet soda altogether.3

Even occasional diet soda drinkers added an average of 1.83 inches to their waistline in that time period. The link between aspartame, the most used artificial sweetener worldwide, and weight gain, obesity and other health problems is so strong that some are now calling it one of the greatest consumer frauds of all time




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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


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