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Mateja
Registered: 07/14/16
Posts: 7,948
Loc: Here
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Re: What am I doing wrong? (slow WBS colonization) [Re: SamplelnAJar]
#25001829 - 02/17/18 05:49 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Measure the temp of the water at the end of the cycle
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SamplelnAJar
Stranger
Registered: 02/17/18
Posts: 59
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
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Re: What am I doing wrong? (slow WBS colonization) [Re: Mateja]
#25002059 - 02/17/18 07:19 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Results of 60 minute soak with light drying (about a minute with a blow drier, low heat from a foot or so away)
Just out of curiosity I dumped that grain back into a pot of water to re-wet it and weighed it again after only straining. Significant weight increase, but the grain is visibly wet on the outside which should be evident in the picture
I don't know if that definitively means that my grain isn't being properly hydrated, but it's kind of perplexing that I'm getting such a different result.
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SamplelnAJar
Stranger
Registered: 02/17/18
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Re: What am I doing wrong? (slow WBS colonization) [Re: Mateja]
#25002064 - 02/17/18 07:21 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Mateah said: Measure the temp of the water at the end of the cycle
Too late for that
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Errl_Shmirl
New Kid On The Block
Registered: 03/25/17
Posts: 263
Loc: Southern Plains
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Re: What am I doing wrong? (slow WBS colonization) [Re: SamplelnAJar]
#25002079 - 02/17/18 07:28 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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I soak for 24hours then rinse, drain, pour out into towels use a fan and comb through it till outside of kernals are fairly dry. Load and PC 90min. Half gal jars, 3x coffee filters and cotton. Almost 0 contain rate for long time.
I use 3x coffee filters bc g2g they hold up better and don't rip when taking lids off and on. Cottons easier to work with Then poly fill and it's never been an issue. No heat needed just a long soak. Easy peesy my nibbas.
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Mateja
Registered: 07/14/16
Posts: 7,948
Loc: Here
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Re: What am I doing wrong? (slow WBS colonization) [Re: SamplelnAJar]
#25002182 - 02/17/18 08:20 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
SamplelnAJar said:
Quote:
Mateah said: Measure the temp of the water at the end of the cycle
Too late for that
haha how much water was it?
I´m asking because if it cooled down you should not get same results as I got. I hydrated my WBS in temps between 65-75C for one hour, the temp never dropped under 65C.
How warm was the water when you dumped it out, how warm did it feel even tho you didn´t stick your hand in it? lol
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Edited by Mateja (02/17/18 08:22 PM)
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Mateja
Registered: 07/14/16
Posts: 7,948
Loc: Here
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Re: What am I doing wrong? (slow WBS colonization) [Re: SamplelnAJar]
#25002191 - 02/17/18 08:28 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
SamplelnAJar said: Results of 60 minute soak with light drying (about a minute with a blow drier, low heat from a foot or so away)
Just out of curiosity I dumped that grain back into a pot of water to re-wet it and weighed it again after only straining. Significant weight increase, but the grain is visibly wet on the outside which should be evident in the picture
I don't know if that definitively means that my grain isn't being properly hydrated, but it's kind of perplexing that I'm getting such a different result.
It might have to do something with the size of grain in your WBS mix, they seem smaller than my mix, im tripping right now so I can see what kind of grain is in the mix
But the only way to find out what the max capacity for you grain is to soak them in controlled high temps for an hour, without simmering or boiling. After this weigh them when they are almost dry on the outside and you´ll have the numbers for max hydration in your case for example.
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SamplelnAJar
Stranger
Registered: 02/17/18
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Re: What am I doing wrong? (slow WBS colonization) [Re: Mateja]
#25002409 - 02/17/18 10:46 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Not sure how to maintain high heat without simmering... for shits and giggles I'm gonna simmer for an hour at 180. Good thing I have nothing to do today.
Go enjoy your trip! This thread will be here when you come back!
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Mateja
Registered: 07/14/16
Posts: 7,948
Loc: Here
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Re: What am I doing wrong? (slow WBS colonization) [Re: SamplelnAJar]
#25002505 - 02/17/18 11:57 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
SamplelnAJar said: Not sure how to maintain high heat without simmering...
That depends on the volume of water you use. I hydrate my WBS usually in a pot with about a gallon of water. It doesnt simmer when between 65 ad 75 C
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Humble Newcomer
Diddler de niños
Registered: 03/12/17
Posts: 1,483
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Re: What am I doing wrong? (slow WBS colonization) [Re: Mateja]
#25002529 - 02/18/18 12:17 AM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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I've exclusively used wbs since I started a year ago and luckily I had great success on the first go.
Really comes down the shroomery and the updated teks, many nights I go deep search box hopping and when I get past the 11yr old threads into the 15 and 16 year old threads, knowledge was non existent. It's crazy, the simplest, think outside the box question was completely unknown. The teks we're atrocious. We are all standing on the shoulders of others for sure.
I started with foo man's wbs prep. After a few times I started getting uneven or overfilled jars and I noticed I wasn't getting full expansion during the steep, it was happening in PC, so personal preference, I raised my steep to an hour.
Never had an issue. Op, skip the toilet paper test, skip all that, get a Dutch oven full of water to a raging boil and then throw in your premeasured amount of dry wbs in. I leave the heat on for an extra 30 seconds and stir, just to replenish the heat lost in the quench of adding wbs. Kill heat, tight lid, don't touch it for an hour. Come back, strain it well, I keep the floaters, I don't rinse the wbs, I load jars while it's dripping in a collander, PC 90min. Never had a problem with sticking except when I let shiitake over colonize. Always use way more water than you need because it will stay hot longer.
Mateah - great side by side. How did you come up with water content numbers? The timelines are enough for me just curious
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Humble Newcomer
Diddler de niños
Registered: 03/12/17
Posts: 1,483
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Re: What am I doing wrong? (slow WBS colonization) [Re: Humble Newcomer]
#25002540 - 02/18/18 12:22 AM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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I don't dry my wbs or anything or toilet paper test it I've never heard of those. I'm very thankful to foo man now
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Mateja
Registered: 07/14/16
Posts: 7,948
Loc: Here
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Re: What am I doing wrong? (slow WBS colonization) [Re: Humble Newcomer]
#25002544 - 02/18/18 12:27 AM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Humble Newcomer said: Mateah - great side by side. How did you come up with water content numbers?/quote]
Quote:
Mateah said: This is a simple, crude experiment just to give some kind of perspective on what the different hydration methods offer.
I took exactly 100.0g of WBS and dried them for 12 hours in the dehydrator and was left with 92g
Then I took another 100.0g WBS and dried them in the oven at about the same temp as the dehydrator but I left them in the oven just for 2 hours and got back with roughly the same weight about 93g. I did this experiment first to determine the natural water content in the WBS.
After that I took a new batch of fresh 100.0g WBS and left them to soak in room temp water for 12 hours and I also did another sample of 100.0g that was left to soak for 24h in another container of room temp water. Lastly I took another 100.0g WBS and dumped them in hot water right after the boil and left them to soak for 20 min.
Before the WBS were weighed after the hydration, they were thoroughly dried with hair dryer. (took about 60 sec for every 100g, very quick) I did the tissue paper test and all the grain were dry on the outside before weighed again.
After 7h soak in room temp water
After 12h soak in room temp water
After 24h soak in room temp water
After 48h soak in room temp water
After 20 min of being dumped in a pot of hot water (after removing the pot from heat after full boil) Fooman style I think
After 60 min in hot water soak 60-85 degrees C (165-210F)
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24764677 https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24824234
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Mateja
Registered: 07/14/16
Posts: 7,948
Loc: Here
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Re: What am I doing wrong? (slow WBS colonization) [Re: Mateja]
#25002547 - 02/18/18 12:28 AM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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I dont do toilet paper test either, when you have done a few grain preps you get the feel for it
I´m looking into hydrating WBS to their full capacity without burst grain, which in my case is 77% water content.
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Edited by Mateja (02/18/18 12:30 AM)
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SamplelnAJar
Stranger
Registered: 02/17/18
Posts: 59
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
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Re: What am I doing wrong? (slow WBS colonization) [Re: Mateja]
#25002571 - 02/18/18 12:49 AM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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I simmered for 60 min at around 190 (on the lowest stove setting). Got quite a few burst grains but it might be less of an issue with a larger pot.
Took A LOT more effort to dry and overall the grains are MUCH soggier even though they're dry-ish on the outside. Quite a different result than the previous tests.
Does this seems closer where I should be? Not just interested in the weight, but how the grains should looks and feel.
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Mateja
Registered: 07/14/16
Posts: 7,948
Loc: Here
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Re: What am I doing wrong? (slow WBS colonization) [Re: SamplelnAJar]
#25002585 - 02/18/18 01:02 AM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Almost identical to my results
Now you could try to lower the temps a bit to prevent burst grain and see what works for your type of bird seed mix.
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Failboat
Fuck Up
Registered: 02/01/18
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Re: What am I doing wrong? (slow WBS colonization) [Re: Mateja]
#25002828 - 02/18/18 05:00 AM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Personally I abandoned WBS in favor of oats. I spent 6 years trying all sorts of grain, and unhulled oats are faster, easier, and cheaper than everything else. ~$12/50lb, prepped in an hourish and difficult to overcook.
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Humble Newcomer
Diddler de niños
Registered: 03/12/17
Posts: 1,483
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Re: What am I doing wrong? (slow WBS colonization) [Re: Failboat]
#25003111 - 02/18/18 08:55 AM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Hmm... What do y'all think about just Dunking your grains afterwards instead?
Well I guess u can't before innoc. So.. there may be benefit to getting it dialed in bc perhaps colonization goes faster.
But I'm thinking a fast and dirty wbs prep (like mine described above, no weighing, no drying or testing for dryness etc), which is probably only 80-90% as hydrated as mateahs beautiful work there to be fair, would colonize close to the same speed as his. Then after colonization you can dunk grains (they have been pressure cooked since their initial steep so I would imagine there's zero problem with absorption) to get to the same water content for spawning.
To be fair though I've never dunked my grains but now I'm really beating myself up for it
Ninja edit - yeah I'm on my last bag of wbs now that I finally found whole oats for $13 for 50 pounds. Though I'm very glad I started with wbs and would teach a protege that way if when I get one.
Because of the availability
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SamplelnAJar
Stranger
Registered: 02/17/18
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Re: What am I doing wrong? (slow WBS colonization) [Re: Humble Newcomer]
#25003573 - 02/18/18 12:41 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Mateah, do your grains typically feel soggy like I described in my last post? All these numbers are great but weighing isn't very practical for a full batch of grains so I'm trying to translate this into something I can gauge by feel.
I'm a little skeptical that they took so much effort to dry... maybe the sliminess from burst grains has something to do with it.
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Mateja
Registered: 07/14/16
Posts: 7,948
Loc: Here
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Re: What am I doing wrong? (slow WBS colonization) [Re: SamplelnAJar]
#25003983 - 02/18/18 03:46 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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my grain feel plump like they are ready to burst with moisture but they keep intact. you just have to tweak the recipe to find what works for your grain
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SamplelnAJar
Stranger
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Re: What am I doing wrong? (slow WBS colonization) [Re: Mateja]
#25004528 - 02/18/18 08:51 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Mateah said: my grain feel plump like they are ready to burst with moisture but they keep intact. you just have to tweak the recipe to find what works for your grain
Yeah, I think at this point I'm still trying to get a better idea of what my target is as far as grain texture so I can tweak accordingly. Seems like my last test was closest to what I should be shooting for. Also seems like the bucket tek isn't really getting me enough moisture content for whatever reason.
I think I'm gonna try a full batch and basically follow the bucket tek but use my pressure cooker as the vessel instead of a bucket... thinking that will do a better job of maintaining temperature for the soak, but without the bursting of a true simmer.
I'll report back... thanks for all the help!
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SamplelnAJar
Stranger
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Re: What am I doing wrong? (slow WBS colonization) [Re: SamplelnAJar]
#25010281 - 02/21/18 10:36 AM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Hmmm... made a new batch of jars last night and I’m worried they might be too wet. There’s no “pooling” water but I can see large-ish water droplets between the grains and the glass, plus condensation at the top. I don’t know... the pictures might make it look worse than it is now that I’m looking at them. What do you all think?
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