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Offlineqman
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: krypto2000] * 1
    #25004222 - 02/18/18 06:05 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

krypto2000 said:
You should be allowed to visit any website you want or hold, espouse, or vote on any beliefs you want. The problem is when you are being lead to believe a false narrative by a foreign interest campaigning within the USs jurisdiction under the guise of supporting a candidate/view when they really just want to create chaos and division.




And how can you protect yourself?  You wouldn't have a clue if a foreign interest was spewing something that confirmed what you already believe, correct? 

You might already believe in many false narratives, does it really matter if you see someone else promoting the same false narrative? 

How can you be duped by them when you already duped yourself?


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: musiclover420]
    #25004225 - 02/18/18 06:05 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

musiclover420 said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

musiclover420 said:
Has everyone seen the recent NRA videos?

There's a bunch of these, funded by Russia of course.

It's insane that those videos are actually from the NRA, as they are blatant violence inciting propaganda....



Huh?  What are you saying here?  That the NRA put out videos against their own will?  :flowstone:

All we know that a lifetime member of the NRA is a Russian banker.  And the conclusion from that is that he's holding the NRA at gunpoint to produce these videos?  :wtf:



Where did I say any of that?.... :lol:

I said that Russia is funding them, and they are putting out propaganda to incite violence...

Where did I say they are being forced to do this? :confused:



Sorry if I misinterpreted your post, but my point is that one Russian banker is known to be a lifelong member of the NRA, and you interpret that to mean the NRA ads are "funded by Russia of course"?  That's an insane stretch.

The rest of your last post has equally insane assumptions.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: krypto2000]
    #25004226 - 02/18/18 06:06 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

krypto2000 said:
You should be allowed to visit any website you want or hold, espouse, or vote on any beliefs you want. The problem is when you are being lead to believe a false narrative by a foreign interest campaigning within the USs jurisdiction under the guise of supporting a candidate/view when they really just want to create chaos and division.



What's the "false" narrative?  That the DNC is corrupt?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Offlinemusiclover420
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: qman]
    #25004228 - 02/18/18 06:08 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
"reputable sites"

Like the NYT's, Washington Post, CNN, NBC, ABC and CBS?  :rofl2:    Please tell us you're joking.

Sure, let 6 mega corporations dictate all the information that forms a political position. :facepalm:




Ok please tell us what reputable sites you use? Fox? :rofldrunk:

And actually I don't specifically check any of those sites...

When I do check a site I try and cross reference with other sources.

Speaking of Fox though, what do you all think of this gem:



It apparently originated on 4chan of all places, and Hannity tried making it into a story/scandal before deleting it after realizing he got trolled :rofl2:


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: musiclover420]
    #25004229 - 02/18/18 06:08 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

musiclover420 said:
Quote:

ballsalsa said:
It's interesting to me that everyone is worried about foreign influence in the U.S. election process vis a vis "russian collusion", but nobody makes a peep about the unlimited political speech rights afforded to foreigners via investment in American corporations.




They aren't mutually exclusive though. How do you think they managed to influence the election? Funneling money into various channels such as the NRA for one.





They certainly are not mutually exclusive.  One is a potential example, and the other is the real underlying scandal.


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Offlineqman
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: musiclover420]
    #25004251 - 02/18/18 06:16 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

musiclover420 said:
Quote:

qman said:
"reputable sites"

Like the NYT's, Washington Post, CNN, NBC, ABC and CBS?  :rofl2:    Please tell us you're joking.

Sure, let 6 mega corporations dictate all the information that forms a political position. :facepalm:




Ok please tell us what reputable sites you use? Fox? :rofldrunk:

And actually I don't specifically check any of those sites...

When I do check a site I try and cross reference with other sources.

Speaking of Fox though, what do you all think of this gem:

It apparently originated on 4chan of all places, and Hannity tried making it into a story/scandal before deleting it after realizing he got trolled :rofl2:




So we're in agreement, all of the "reputable" MSM sites are unreliable/biased sources of news information and consistently provide false narratives for whatever reason?


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Offlinemusiclover420
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: qman]
    #25004258 - 02/18/18 06:20 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
So we're in agreement, all of the "reputable" MSM sites are unreliable/biased sources of news information and consistently provide false narratives for whatever reason?




Care to provide some examples? There's sensationalism on both side for sure but I can't say I've seen many "MSM" sites blatantly lie/make stuff up like Fox.

This is why it's important to cross reference sources. Meanwhile the GOP is labeling anything that makes them look bad as "fake news" even when it's 100% verified :lol:


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



Edited by musiclover420 (02/18/18 06:21 PM)


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: qman]
    #25004261 - 02/18/18 06:25 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Cnn is a fake news site so lets indict them. They tried to influence the election by lying and saying hill had it all sewn up. Many of the others too. Why do they get to give opinions instead of facts but when someone else does it, its a crime?

Wire fraud because they sent money to pay for ads and didn't check all the boxes that applied. Or used a fake name, ooooh thats a biggie, better give them life for that.

Those named are in other countries and will probably never see the inside of a usa court. This is all smoke and mirrors because they could come up with nothing after more than a year of trying to connect trump to a russia scandal. So now they charge someone with using a fake id and wiring money, ho hum. And giving opinions, that was the big crime. If they had attacked trump, there would have been no charges even if they broke twice as many tiny regulations. We all know that.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Offlinemusiclover420
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: Stonehenge]
    #25004275 - 02/18/18 06:32 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Cnn is a fake news site so lets indict them. They tried to influence the election by lying and saying hill had it all sewn up. Many of the others too. Why do they get to give opinions instead of facts but when someone else does it, its a crime?

Wire fraud because they sent money to pay for ads and didn't check all the boxes that applied. Or used a fake name, ooooh thats a biggie, better give them life for that.

Those named are in other countries and will probably never see the inside of a usa court. This is all smoke and mirrors because they could come up with nothing after more than a year of trying to connect trump to a russia scandal. So now they charge someone with using a fake id and wiring money, ho hum. And giving opinions, that was the big crime. If they had attacked trump, there would have been no charges even if they broke twice as many tiny regulations. We all know that.




:goodluckwiththat2:

For those unaware the Nixon watergate investigation took at least 2+ years, and this situation seems even more complicated as it involves domestic and foreign corruption.

So keep telling yourself that "nothing" has turned up from this investigation. We will see as it progresses. The GOP's behavior is far from innocent though :shrug:


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



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Offlineqman
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: musiclover420]
    #25004343 - 02/18/18 07:15 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

musiclover420 said:
Quote:

qman said:
So we're in agreement, all of the "reputable" MSM sites are unreliable/biased sources of news information and consistently provide false narratives for whatever reason?




Care to provide some examples? There's sensationalism on both side for sure but I can't say I've seen many "MSM" sites blatantly lie/make stuff up like Fox.

This is why it's important to cross reference sources. Meanwhile the GOP is labeling anything that makes them look bad as "fake news" even when it's 100% verified :lol:




How did the biased polls from the last election workout from these "news" organizations? 

So much of what they report isn't factual news, it's opinion of current events at best and a big twist of the facts in many cases. :shrug:

Fox is no better or worst than the rest of them, it's mostly bullshit opinions of the current and past events.


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Offlinemusiclover420
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: qman] * 1
    #25004363 - 02/18/18 07:24 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

How did the biased polls from the last election workout from these "news" organizations? 





Which "biased polls"? :lol:

Quote:

So much of what they report isn't factual news, it's opinion of current events at best and a big twist of the facts in many cases. :shrug:





Once again please provide some examples. Also publishing an opinion piece is not nearly as bad as stating propaganda as facts with the GOP is notorious for :shrug:

Quote:

Fox is no better or worst than the rest of them, it's mostly bullshit opinions of the current and past events.





Alright, provide some examples then. Fox literally took BS off 4chan and published it trying to make Obama look bad :lol:

Where are the examples of CNN and other "fake news MSM" doing the same with Trump?

Opinion pieces are obvious, spreading propaganda as fact is not as obvious for people being brainwashed, which is Fox's bread and butter... You don't see a dangerous distinction there?


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: musiclover420]
    #25004398 - 02/18/18 07:43 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Watergate started with a fact, a burglary did indeed happen. The links to high govt officials took a while to unravel but they started with an actual crime. Here we start with posting on the internet and try to make it into a crime. See the difference? No I guess you don't.

Another difference which sinks your nixon comparison is that the alleged crime of posting while using a fake name and spending money was not done by govt officials or under their orders, it was allegedly foreign nationals. The influencing of the election was not by tampering with voting machines, as hill is strongly suspected of doing. Neither was it by giving huge bribes to elected officials and candidates, as we know happened with hill. SA alone gave her some 20M, other govts gave loads of money too. Tell me that didn't influence anything.

You will steadfastly deny the huge sums of money given to her influenced her actions but only those who gave got results.

We all know usa tries to influence other countries elections but that's different. hill is different because she isn't trump. Thats it in a nutshell, the public is getting tired of the latest nothing burger, they want red meat but it isn't going to happen. Just more fake news and phoney charges. I doubt it will ever get to court.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Offlinemusiclover420
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: Stonehenge]
    #25004429 - 02/18/18 07:55 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Watergate started with a fact, a burglary did indeed happen. The links to high govt officials took a while to unravel but they started with an actual crime. Here we start with posting on the internet and try to make it into a crime. See the difference? No I guess you don't.




It's not just posting on the internet though... It's straight up cyber warfare and there have been many crimes, hence all the indictments thus far. We are sure to see a lot more as well.

Quote:

Another difference which sinks your nixon comparison is that the alleged crime of posting while using a fake name and spending money was not done by govt officials or under their orders, it was allegedly foreign nationals. The influencing of the election was not by tampering with voting machines, as hill is strongly suspected of doing. Neither was it by giving huge bribes to elected officials and candidates, as we know happened with hill.




Except the investigation is ongoing... At the start of the Watergate investigation I doubt they knew Nixon was involved, until more evidence turned up over time.

Saying no government officials were involved is ridiculous, there's still more indictments to come so we shall see. Also keep on projecting on Hillary :tongue2: that seems like all the GOP has left...

Quote:

SA alone gave her some 20M, other govts gave loads of money too. Tell me that didn't influence anything.




Well she lost so clearly the "deep state" isn't very deep :shrug: Honestly I don't like her any more then Trump, if she committed crimes then investigate her as well. Trump is the president though, he is the one fucking up our country...

This "nothing burger" keeps getting stacked higher and higher while you just project the same old BS:

Quote:

Richard Gates, a former campaign adviser for President Trump, has agreed to testify against his former associate Paul Manafort as part of a plea deal with special counsel Robert Mueller, the Los Angeles Times reported Sunday.

The former adviser and Manafort business associate is reportedly nearing a deal with Mueller’s team and will plead guilty to fraud charges in the next few days, according to the Times.

Former Trump campaign staffer George Papadopoulos and former national security adviser Michael Flynn have both pleaded guilty to charges in Mueller's probe.




http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/374477-gates-plans-to-testify-against-manafort-in-mueller-probe-report

Bannon just got interviewed for 20 hours as well :lol: I'm sure they got a whole lot of "nothing" from him :wink:


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25005700 - 02/19/18 01:24 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

krypto2000 said:
You should be allowed to visit any website you want or hold, espouse, or vote on any beliefs you want. The problem is when you are being lead to believe a false narrative by a foreign interest campaigning within the USs jurisdiction under the guise of supporting a candidate/view when they really just want to create chaos and division.




And how can you protect yourself?  You wouldn't have a clue if a foreign interest was spewing something that confirmed what you already believe, correct?

You might already believe in many false narratives, does it really matter if you see someone else promoting the same false narrative?

How can you be duped by them when you already duped yourself?




You wouldn't necessarily know that the info being supported is false, no, but you would know that it's being purported by someone with outside interest. The main distinction I see here is if you visit a foreign site, such as by someone sharing a link with you, then that's a conscious decision that you made. If an advertisement pops up on facebook with the illusion that it is being purported by a member of the campaign then that is effectively visiting you in a way, it's not dissimilar to phishing scams to steal you email address or something. I believe that is similarly why TV ads often end with, "this is supported by such and such" because it's important to know not only what the message is, but who is sending it. 




Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

krypto2000 said:
You should be allowed to visit any website you want or hold, espouse, or vote on any beliefs you want. The problem is when you are being lead to believe a false narrative by a foreign interest campaigning within the USs jurisdiction under the guise of supporting a candidate/view when they really just want to create chaos and division.



What's the "false" narrative?  That the DNC is corrupt?




I haven't really looked at the specific ads, I was under the impression that many of them were simply made up/fake. Regardless if the information there in is true or not it's still false and misleading for the same reasons I stated to qman. An ad could have the exact same message but if it were supported by the Electronic Fronteir Foundation vs the Koch brothers I'm surely going to receive and process that information more differently, the EFF is more likely to look out for me where as the Kochs are more likely to look out for the Kochs.


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OfflineXUL
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: krypto2000] * 2
    #25005755 - 02/19/18 01:52 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Man, I am just burnt on the whole Russia hoax. Out of the time spent in this investigation all that they can tell is that 13 Russians were engaged in political rallies? We probably already knew these kinds of things were happening. Where the hell is the big blowout and impeachment for collusion?

It's like watching the FBI beat a dead horse with a piece of straw.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: XUL] * 1
    #25005762 - 02/19/18 01:59 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Massive international conspiracies take a long time to unravel. So do money laundering schemes which is the crime trump will be charged with.


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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: koods] * 1
    #25005778 - 02/19/18 02:08 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Massive international conspiracies take a long time to unravel. So do money laundering schemes which is the crime trump will be charged with.




If he isn't charged, will you still believe he is guilty?


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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: XUL]
    #25005786 - 02/19/18 02:11 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

XUL said:
Man, I am just burnt on the whole Russia hoax. Out of the time spent in this investigation all that they can tell is that 13 Russians were engaged in political rallies? We probably already knew these kinds of things were happening. Where the hell is the big blowout and impeachment for collusion?

It's like watching the FBI beat a dead horse with a piece of straw.




And the DNC/RNC email hack. Maybe Trump is not guilty or involved at all, so what? There's still reason to investigate, wouldn't you like to know that he is innocent instead of just speculate?


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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: krypto2000]
    #25005796 - 02/19/18 02:14 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

krypto2000 said:
Quote:

XUL said:
Man, I am just burnt on the whole Russia hoax. Out of the time spent in this investigation all that they can tell is that 13 Russians were engaged in political rallies? We probably already knew these kinds of things were happening. Where the hell is the big blowout and impeachment for collusion?

It's like watching the FBI beat a dead horse with a piece of straw.




And the DNC/RNC email hack. Maybe Trump is not guilty or involved at all, so what? There's still reason to investigate, wouldn't you like to know that he is innocent instead of just speculate?




Yes, I would.

But Dang it already, get the job done.


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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: XUL]
    #25005849 - 02/19/18 02:36 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

>Out of the time spent in this investigation all that they can tell is that 13 Russians were engaged in political rallies?

Yeah thats a crime now... if you are favoring gop. Oh but lets not forget that they used fake names, thats the big deal. And also they spent a lot of money, thats starting to be illegal now I guess. BTW, I don't think the council can indict, that would be a function of a grand jury. He can file a charging document, no big difference.

Yeah, hill took millions in bribes, sold off a lot of our strategic uranium reserves but no biggie. Some russians paid for ads and posted under fake screen names and thats a BIG honking deal. If you believe the msm which few besides the far left do anymore.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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