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musiclover420
psychonaut



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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: ballsalsa]
#25003991 - 02/18/18 03:52 PM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
ballsalsa said: It's interesting to me that everyone is worried about foreign influence in the U.S. election process vis a vis "russian collusion", but nobody makes a peep about the unlimited political speech rights afforded to foreigners via investment in American corporations.
They aren't mutually exclusive though. How do you think they managed to influence the election? Funneling money into various channels such as the NRA for one.
Anyways more funny news today:
http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/374427-trump-i-never-said-russia-didnt-meddle-in-election
Quote:
I never said Russia did not meddle in the election, I said “it may be Russia, or China or another country or group, or it may be a 400 pound genius sitting in bed and playing with his computer.” The Russian “hoax” was that the Trump campaign colluded with Russia - it never did!
Quote:
Trump last year said he believed Russian President Vladimir Putin when Putin said he didn't meddle in the 2016 election.
“Every time he sees me he says, ‘I didn’t do that,’ and I really believe that when he tells me that, he means it," Trump said last November.
Trump later sought to clarify his comments on whether he believed Russia meddled in the 2016 presidential race, saying: "I believe our intel agencies."
Multiple U.S. intelligence agencies have concluded Russia interfered in the 2016 presidential race.

Funniest part is Putin denied even talking to Trump about this...
So is Trump lying, senile, or corrupt?... Or possibly a mix of all 3 and then some Really not a good look either way.
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
Edited by musiclover420 (02/18/18 03:54 PM)
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musiclover420
psychonaut



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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: musiclover420]
#25004035 - 02/18/18 04:15 PM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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Has everyone seen the recent NRA videos?
NRA Ad
There's a bunch of these, funded by Russia of course.
It's insane that those videos are actually from the NRA, as they are blatant violence inciting propaganda....
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
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krypto2000
Unknown


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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: musiclover420] 1
#25004048 - 02/18/18 04:23 PM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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@Fal That could be, it's an interesting and reasonable perspective at least. Thanks for sharing.
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musiclover420
psychonaut



Registered: 11/06/12
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: musiclover420]
#25004050 - 02/18/18 04:24 PM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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Oooo boy, more juicy nothing burger coming up:
http://observer.com/2018/02/kremlin-officials-began-planning-donald-trump-us-presidency-in-2014/
Quote:
Then there’s highly classified intelligence demonstrating that Donald Trump was planning on running for the presidency—with Kremlin backing—years before the 2016 election. Back in the spring of 2014, a European intelligence service, a NATO ally of the United States, received a top-secret report that the Russians would back Donald Trump for the White House in the next election. The source was a mid-level Russian intelligence official who had plausible access to secret Kremlin plans.
Moreover, this source had a track record of providing accurate information, so his Trump bombshell merited examination. However, our partners determined that the notion was so absurd—after all, Trump was a reality TV star, a mere carnival barker, not a serious person—that the report had to be Russian disinformation. The source was put “on ice” for several months and his information was not shared with the Americans, since our friends didn’t want to appear so foolish as to suggest Donald Trump would run for president with secret Russian help.
However, American intelligence was hearing similar whispers back in early 2014. The National Security Agency’s global signals intelligence apparatus picked up conversations about a coming Trump presidential run with Kremlin backing. These were what the SIGINT world calls “reflections”—that is, Russians talking to other Russians, without Americans (much less Team Trump members) involved. These intercepted conversations included discussions of Trump’s coming White House run and how Moscow planned to boost him; the SIGINT involved, while not detailed, left the indelible impression that this secret effort had approval from “the top” in the Kremlin. Some of NSA’s foreign spy partners intercepted similar conversations in 2014.
....Based on SIGINT reflections back in November 2013, it appeared likely that Trump had discussions with Kremlin officials when he was visiting Moscow, in preparation for his coming run for the White House. “It’s one hell of a coincidence,” an NSA official told me, “that high-ranking Russians suddenly start talking about getting Trump in the White House right after he’s in Moscow.” It’s unclear what intelligence, if any, was shared with the Obama White House about these SIGINT reflections, since its conclusions were tentative; there was no top-secret “smoking gun.” We can hope that Bob Mueller and his prosecutors will now get to the bottom of this murky intelligence puzzle.
And some more:
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/11/19/trump-first-moscow-trip-215842
Quote:
Trump's first visit to Soviet Moscow in 1987 looks, with hindsight, to be part of a pattern. The dossier by the former British intelligence officer Christopher Steele asserts that the Kremlin had been cultivating Trump for “at least five years” before his stunning victory in the 2016 US presidential election. This would take us back to around 2011 or 2012.
In fact, the Soviet Union was interested in him too, three decades earlier. The top level of the Soviet diplomatic service arranged his 1987 Moscow visit. With assistance from the KGB. It took place while Kryuchkov was seeking to improve the KGB's operational techniques in one particular and sensitive area. The spy chief wanted KGB staff abroad to recruit more Americans.
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
Edited by musiclover420 (02/18/18 04:27 PM)
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: musiclover420]
#25004087 - 02/18/18 04:54 PM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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Oh golly, the russians wanted trump to win rather than the insane corrupt warhawk hillary. Anyone with sense wanted the same thing, not necessarily trump but abc, anyone but clinton.
They posted on social media, who knew that was against the law? And spent money, another surprising thing apparently against the law. And some were russian, its certainly against the law to be russian isn't it? Then charged with fraud because they used the screen name henry jones instead of vladimir kruchev. Gee, are we all in trouble if we post and our screen name is not our own name? This isn't even a mole hill, its another nothing burger that the media is going into a frenzy over, along with the far left who sees nothing hypocritical about it.
If they can charge with fraud for that, then no one is safe. Be careful what you wish for.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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musiclover420
psychonaut



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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: Stonehenge]
#25004095 - 02/18/18 04:59 PM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: Oh golly, the russians wanted trump to win rather than the insane corrupt warhawk hillary. Anyone with sense wanted the same thing, not necessarily trump but abc, anyone but clinton.
They posted on social media, who knew that was against the law? And spent money, another surprising thing apparently against the law. And some were russian, its certainly against the law to be russian isn't it? Then charged with fraud because they used the screen name henry jones instead of vladimir kruchev. Gee, are we all in trouble if we post and our screen name is not our own name? This isn't even a mole hill, its another nothing burger that the media is going into a frenzy over, along with the far left who sees nothing hypocritical about it.
If they can charge with fraud for that, then no one is safe. Be careful what you wish for.
They didn't just post on social media... They created fake news sites to push lies/propaganda which then ended up duping a lot of people.
Way to keep trying to downplay all of this though
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
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krypto2000
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: Stonehenge] 1
#25004097 - 02/18/18 05:00 PM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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They are being charged with identity theft, wire fraud, etc for stealing ids and fordging documents to purchase the ads, organize the campaign rallies, open bank accounts, etc. You know, remember that from page 1 of this thread?
Can you show me the charges of "posting online" or "being russian?" I'm pretty sure the only one alleging that is you and your straw man because, I'm only left to imagine, you can't defend the actual charges.
Do you actually believe the things that you say? Either you're incredibly mentally challenged and literally cannot follow a conversation or you are being intentionally obtuse. I'd really like to give you the benefit of a doubt and assume the later because you sure seem intelligent enough to have a rational discussion when you want to.
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vinsue
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: krypto2000]
#25004106 - 02/18/18 05:06 PM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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4 Russian bot response.
. . .
--------------------
"All mushrooms are edible; but some only once." Croatian proverb. BTW ... Have You Rated Ythans Mom Yet ?? ... ... HERE'S HOW ... (be nice) . ...
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krypto2000
Unknown


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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: vinsue]
#25004110 - 02/18/18 05:06 PM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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4 russian bot response?
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musiclover420
psychonaut



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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: krypto2000]
#25004120 - 02/18/18 05:13 PM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
krypto2000 said: They are being charged with identity theft, wire fraud, etc for stealing ids and fordging documents to purchase the ads, organize the campaign rallies, open bank accounts, etc. You know, remember that from page 1 of this thread?
Can you show me the charges of "posting online" or "being russian?" I'm pretty sure the only one alleging that is you and your straw man because, I'm only left to imagine, you can't defend the actual charges.
Do you actually believe the things that you say? Either you're incredibly mentally challenged and literally cannot follow a conversation or you are being intentionally obtuse. I'd really like to give you the benefit of a doubt and assume the later because you sure seem intelligent enough to have a rational discussion when you want to.

The deflection is getting unreal these days...
GOP:
Gaslight Obstruct Project

Then there's the narcissists prayer:
Quote:
A Narcissist's Prayer
That didn't happen.
And if it did, it wasn't that bad.
And if it was, that's not a big deal.
And if it is, that's not my fault.
And if it was, I didn't mean it.
And if I did...
You deserved it.
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
Edited by musiclover420 (02/18/18 05:14 PM)
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krypto2000
Unknown


Registered: 12/05/06
Posts: 11,579
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: musiclover420] 3
#25004144 - 02/18/18 05:24 PM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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It's anti intellectualism, they don't care about truth, just how it makes them feel and if it makes them feel bad they shut it out and label it as false. It's no coincidence there's a large overlap between antiintellectualism and religiousity, especially of the unquestioning dogmatic and patriarchical based demographics there of.
Edit: And look at falcon man. He's no trump supporter but we are on opposing sides in many things yet we have perfectly rational discussions. We both actually seem to seek the truth, consider what the other has to say, and often we will conceed that the other is correct, has a good point, etc. That is how you have a proper discussion, that is what we should be here for. There's such a stark contrast between debating with someone like him and someone who just blindly attacks everything they disagree with.
Edited by krypto2000 (02/18/18 05:30 PM)
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musiclover420
psychonaut



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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: krypto2000]
#25004150 - 02/18/18 05:27 PM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
krypto2000 said: It's anti intellectualism, they don't care about truth, just how it makes them feel and if it makes them feel bad they shut it out and label it as false. It's no coincidence there's a large overlap between antiintellectualism and religiousity, especially of the unquestioning dogmatic and patriarchical based demographics there of.
I wonder where they get it from:
CNN Money: Interview Walk Out with Charles Feldman and Donald Trump - March 29, 1990
Trump is such a pussy it's insane
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: musiclover420]
#25004174 - 02/18/18 05:42 PM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
musiclover420 said: more funny news today:
Quote:
I never said Russia did not meddle in the election, I said “it may be Russia, or China or another country or group, or it may be a 400 pound genius sitting in bed and playing with his computer.” The Russian “hoax” was that the Trump campaign colluded with Russia - it never did!
Quote:
Trump last year said he believed Russian President Vladimir Putin when Putin said he didn't meddle in the 2016 election.
“Every time he sees me he says, ‘I didn’t do that,’ and I really believe that when he tells me that, he means it," Trump said last November.
Trump later sought to clarify his comments on whether he believed Russia meddled in the 2016 presidential race, saying: "I believe our intel agencies."

Nothing funny here. This all goes back to what is meant by "meddling in the election". Trump believes Russia didn't do anything to influence the election, but he believes the DNC emails were hacked by someone in Russia. I believe the same.
Quote:
musiclover420 said: Funniest part is Putin denied even talking to Trump about this...
So is Trump lying, senile, or corrupt?... Or possibly a mix of all 3 and then some Really not a good look either way.
Nothing funny or abnormal here either. Putin issued statements that he had no involvement, and Trump likely considered those statements "telling him" that.
Quote:
musiclover420 said: Has everyone seen the recent NRA videos?
There's a bunch of these, funded by Russia of course.
It's insane that those videos are actually from the NRA, as they are blatant violence inciting propaganda....
Huh? What are you saying here? That the NRA put out videos against their own will? 
All we know that a lifetime member of the NRA is a Russian banker. And the conclusion from that is that he's holding the NRA at gunpoint to produce these videos?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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qman
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: musiclover420] 1
#25004183 - 02/18/18 05:47 PM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
musiclover420 said:
Quote:
Stonehenge said: Oh golly, the russians wanted trump to win rather than the insane corrupt warhawk hillary. Anyone with sense wanted the same thing, not necessarily trump but abc, anyone but clinton.
They posted on social media, who knew that was against the law? And spent money, another surprising thing apparently against the law. And some were russian, its certainly against the law to be russian isn't it? Then charged with fraud because they used the screen name henry jones instead of vladimir kruchev. Gee, are we all in trouble if we post and our screen name is not our own name? This isn't even a mole hill, its another nothing burger that the media is going into a frenzy over, along with the far left who sees nothing hypocritical about it.
If they can charge with fraud for that, then no one is safe. Be careful what you wish for.
They didn't just post on social media... They created fake news sites to push lies/propaganda which then ended up duping a lot of people.
How would one even quantify if someone was "duped" into some narrative? We can't, it's pure speculation on your part.
How can you protect me from visiting a foreign website and reading information that might be false? There's another election in November, how do know you won't be "duped"?
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: musiclover420]
#25004192 - 02/18/18 05:51 PM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
musiclover420 said: Oooo boy, more juicy nothing burger coming up:
"Then there’s highly classified intelligence demonstrating that Donald Trump was planning on running for the presidency—with Kremlin backing—years before the 2016 election."
You're right, that's a super juicy nothing burger. Do you seriously believe that Russia is better at getting American Presidents elected that professional American campaign officials? That's absurd. I guess the next presidential candidate should just hire the Russians to run their campaign. 
Seriously - this is getting
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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qman
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: musiclover420]
#25004196 - 02/18/18 05:52 PM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
musiclover420 said:
Quote:
krypto2000 said: It's anti intellectualism, they don't care about truth, just how it makes them feel and if it makes them feel bad they shut it out and label it as false. It's no coincidence there's a large overlap between antiintellectualism and religiousity, especially of the unquestioning dogmatic and patriarchical based demographics there of.
I wonder where they get it from:
CNN Money: Interview Walk Out with Charles Feldman and Donald Trump - March 29, 1990
Trump is such a pussy it's insane 
Your hatred of Trump and the subject matter should be two different things, it's too bad you can't separate it.
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musiclover420
psychonaut



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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: qman]
#25004203 - 02/18/18 05:55 PM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Huh? What are you saying here? That the NRA put out videos against their own will? 
All we know that a lifetime member of the NRA is a Russian banker. And the conclusion from that is that he's holding the NRA at gunpoint to produce these videos? 
Where did I say any of that?.... 
I said that Russia is funding them, and they are putting out propaganda to incite violence...
Where did I say they are being forced to do this? 
Quote:
Nothing funny here. This all goes back to what is meant by "meddling in the election". Trump believes Russia didn't do anything to influence the election, but he believes the DNC emails were hacked by someone in Russia. I believe the same.
Except that Trump has repeatedly denied any Russia interference for the last year, then just claimed he never denied it 
Oh and he doesn't just believe that, he encouraged them:
Quote:
"Russia, if you're listening, I hope you're able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing. I think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press," Trump said during a news conference in Florida. "They probably have them. I'd like to have them released," he continued. "Now, if Russia or China or any other country has those e-mails, I mean, to be honest with you, I'd love to see them."
https://www.cnn.com/2016/07/27/politics/donald-trump-vladimir-putin-hack-hillary-clinton/index.html
Quote:
Nothing funny or abnormal here either. Putin issued statements that he had no involvement, and Trump likely considered those statements "telling him" that.
Care to find some examples of something similar ever happening? What are your thoughts on his tweet about becoming "best friends with putin":
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/347191326112112640
Quote:
Do you think Putin will be going to The Miss Universe Pageant in November in Moscow - if so, will he become my new best friend?
Totally not shady at all....
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
musiclover420 said:
Quote:
Stonehenge said: Oh golly, the russians wanted trump to win rather than the insane corrupt warhawk hillary. Anyone with sense wanted the same thing, not necessarily trump but abc, anyone but clinton.
They posted on social media, who knew that was against the law? And spent money, another surprising thing apparently against the law. And some were russian, its certainly against the law to be russian isn't it? Then charged with fraud because they used the screen name henry jones instead of vladimir kruchev. Gee, are we all in trouble if we post and our screen name is not our own name? This isn't even a mole hill, its another nothing burger that the media is going into a frenzy over, along with the far left who sees nothing hypocritical about it.
If they can charge with fraud for that, then no one is safe. Be careful what you wish for.
They didn't just post on social media... They created fake news sites to push lies/propaganda which then ended up duping a lot of people.
How would one even quantify if someone was "duped" into some narrative? We can't, it's pure speculation on your part.
Well when someone spreads lies/propaganda that's usually a good sign they are being duped... I fail to see how that is speculation.
Quote:
How can you protect me from visiting a foreign website and reading information that might be false? There's another election in November, how do know you won't be "duped"?
For one, avoid sites that have only existed for a few months... Stick to older more reputable sites, compare sources, etc. It's not hard.
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



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Posts: 32,557
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Last seen: 4 months, 20 days
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: krypto2000]
#25004204 - 02/18/18 05:55 PM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
krypto2000 said: Edit: And look at falcon man. He's no trump supporter but we are on opposing sides in many things yet we have perfectly rational discussions. We both actually seem to seek the truth, consider what the other has to say, and often we will conceed that the other is correct, has a good point, etc. That is how you have a proper discussion, that is what we should be here for. There's such a stark contrast between debating with someone like him and someone who just blindly attacks everything they disagree with.
Thanks, and the same is true for you. 
I agree, Stonehenge is FAR from a good debater.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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krypto2000
Unknown


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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: qman]
#25004205 - 02/18/18 05:55 PM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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You should be allowed to visit any website you want or hold, espouse, or vote on any beliefs you want. The problem is when you are being lead to believe a false narrative by a foreign interest campaigning within the USs jurisdiction under the guise of supporting a candidate/view when they really just want to create chaos and division.
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qman
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: musiclover420]
#25004211 - 02/18/18 05:59 PM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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"reputable sites"
Like the NYT's, Washington Post, CNN, NBC, ABC and CBS? Please tell us you're joking.
Sure, let 6 mega corporations dictate all the information that forms a political position.
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