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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: qman] * 1
    #24999374 - 02/16/18 07:41 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

krypto2000 said:
He apparently thinks an illegal immigrant making a facebook account and campaigning is equivalent to bank fraud, wire fraud, identity theft, and conspiracy lol. These people are either in denial or they are trolls, it's very hard to take them seriously sometimes; it's hard for me to fathom that people can be so blind and beholden to an idea that they ignore reality. It's literally like a religion to them.




"bank fraud, wire fraud, identity theft"

We get it, those are all illegal acts. They had no impact on the election. :shrug:




1.) Maybe you now get it, I'm glad to hear that if so, but if you read this thread you'll see there are many still who do not.

2.) That's simply your opinion, it is not a fact and not only hasn't been proven true but cannot be proven true because you can't prove a negative.

3.) Why does it matter if it had an impact or not? It's a crime all the same. If I attempt to kill you and fail are you going to call it a nothing burger because I failed?


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InvisibleballsalsaM
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: qman]
    #24999377 - 02/16/18 07:41 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

ballsalsa said:
I don't know.
Presumably that's who being referenced in the indictment as "(and with persons known and unknown to the Grand Jury)"




My guess that even if there was a government connection, there would never be any evidence of it.

"that's who being referenced in the indictment"

I didn't see it.




Me either, that's why I said "presumably".  I doubt they would list a Russian government agency explicitly in the indictment either way, and i have no idea what level of access the grand jury had to classified info.


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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #24999386 - 02/16/18 07:44 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Quote:

krypto2000 said:
16 indictments with numerous charges from identity theft to bank fraud and conspiracy directly linked to election interference is not news? So if it's not news to you does that mean you accept that the Russian's interfered in the 2016 election?




If I answer will I be off topic? LOL
It's news. Tell me where this was orchestrated by Trump? Of course there was meddling. Every powerful nation trys to influence foriegn elections.
Do you have evidence that votes were changed (via hacking)?????

Please be specific.




I don't understand what you are getting at here. No one brought up Trump until you did. No one said Trump would not have won without the Russian campaign. The point is that the Russians are actively and on a wide scale trying to manipulate our elections. Does that not bother you? Sure we do it to others and that's fucked up too, but if someone robs my house I'm not going to dismiss it and sleep better knowing that my brother has robbed people as well, that makes me sleep even worse.


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: krypto2000] * 2
    #24999396 - 02/16/18 07:48 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

krypto2000 said:
Read this post.

Quote:

Excerpts from the indictments:

    Defendants' operations included supporting the presidential campaign of then-candidate Donald J. Trump ("Trump Campaign") and disparaging Hillary Clinton. Defendants made various expenditures to carry out those activities, including buying political advertisements on social media in the names of U.S. persons and entities. Defendants also staged political rallies inside the United States, and while posing as U.S. grassroots entities and U.S. persons, and without revealing their Russian identities and ORGANIZATION affiliation, solicited and compensated real U.S. persons to promote or disparage candidates. Some Defendants, posing as U.S. persons and without revealing their Russian association, communicated with unwitting individuals associated with the Trump Campaign and with other political activists to seek to coordinate political activities.

    In order to carry out their activities to interfere in U.S. political and electoral processes without detection of their Russian affiliation, Defendants conspired to obstruct the lawful functions of the United States government through fraud and deceit, including by making expenditures in connection with the 2016 U.S. presidential election without proper regulatory disclosure; failing to register as foreign agents carrying out political activities within the United States; and obtaining visas through false and fraudulent statements.

    Defendants and their co-conspirators used their fictitious online personas to interfere with the 2016 U.S. presidential election. They engaged in operations primarily intended to communicate derogatory information about Hillary Clinton, to denigrate other candidates such as Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio, and to support Bernie Sanders and then-candidate Donald Trump.

    On or about February 10, 2016, Defendants and their co-conspirators internally circulated an outline of themes for future content to be posted to ORGANIZATION-controlled social media accounts. Specialists were instructed to post content that focused on "politics in the USA" and to "use any opportunity to criticize Hillary and the rest (except Sanders and Trump--we support them)."

    From at least April 2016 through November 2016, Defendants and their co-conspirators, while concealing their Russian identities and ORGANIZATION affiliation through false personas, began to produce, purchase, and post advertisements on U.S. social media and other online sites expressly advocating for the election of then-candidate Trump or expressly opposing Clinton. Defendants and their co-conspirators did not report their expenditures to the Federal Election Commission, or register as foreign agents with the U.S. Department of Justice. The political advertisements included the following:

       
Quote:

April 6, 2016 "You know, a great number of black people support us saying that #HillaryClintonlsNotMyPresident"
        April 7, 2016 "I say no to Hillary Clinton / I say no to manipulation"
        April 19, 2016 "JOIN our #HillaryClintonForPrison2016"
        May 10, 2016 "Donald wants to defeat terrorism ... Hillary wants to sponsor it"
        May 19, 2016 "Vote Republican, vote Trump, and support the Second Amendment!"
        May 24, 2016 "Hillary Clinton Doesn't Deserve the Black Vote"
        June 7, 2016 "Trump is our only hope for a better future!"
        June 30, 2016 "#Never Hillary #Hillary F orPrison #Hillary4 Prison #HillaryForPrison2016 #Trump2016 #Trump #Trump4President"
        July 20, 2016 "Ohio Wants Hillary 4 Prison"
        August 4, 2016 "Hillary Clinton has already committed voter fraud during the Democrat Iowa Caucus."
        August 10, 2016 "We cannot trust Hillary to take care of our veterans!"
        October 14, 2016 "Among all the candidates Donald Trump is the one and only who can defend the police from terrorists."
        October 19, 2016 "Hillary is a Satan, and her crimes and lies had proved just how evil she is."




    To pay for the political advertisements, Defendants and their co-conspirators established various Russian bank accounts and credit cards, often registered in the names of fictitious U.S. personas created and used by the ORGANIZATION on social media. Defendants and their coconspirators also paid for other political advertisements using PayPal accounts.

    Beginning in at least 2016, Defendants and their co-conspirators used, without lawful authority, the social security numbers, home addresses, and birth dates ofreal U.S. persons without their knowledge or consent. Using these means of stolen identification, Defendants and their coconspirators opened accounts at a federally insured U.S. financial institution ("Bank I")

    Defendants and their co-conspirators purchased credit card and bank account numbers from online sellers for the unlawful purpose of evading security measures at PayPal, which used account numbers to verify a user's identity. Many of the bank account numbers purchased by Defendants and their co-conspirators were created using the stolen identities of real U.S. persons. After purchasing the accounts, Defendants and their co-conspirators submitted these bank account numbers to PayPal.

    On or about August 18, 2016, the real "Florida for Trump" Facebook account responded to the false U.S. persona "Matt Skiber" account with instructions to contact a member of the Trump Campaign ("Campaign Official l ") involved in the campaign's Florida operations and provided Campaign Official 1's email address at the campaign domain donaldtrump.com.On approximately the same day, Defendants and their co-conspirators used the email address of a false U.S. persona, joshmilton024@gmail.com, to send an email to Campaign Official 1 at that donaldtrump.com email account, which read in part:

       
Quote:

"Hello [Campaign Official l], [w]e are organizing a state-wide event in Florida on August, 20 to support Mr. Trump. Let us introduce ourselves first. "Being Patriotic" is a grassroots conservative online movement trying to unite people offline. . . . [W]e gained a huge lot of followers and decided to somehow help Mr. Trump get elected. You know, simple yelling on the Internet is not enough. There should be real action. We organized rallies in New York before. Now we're focusing on purple states such as Florida." The email also identified thirteen "confirmed locations" in Florida for the rallies and requested the campaign provide "assistance in each location."




    On or about August 24, 2016, Defendants and their co-conspirators updated an internal ORGANIZATION list of over 100 real U.S. persons contacted through ORGANIZATIONcontrolled false U.S. persona accounts and tracked to monitor recruitment efforts and requests. The list included contact information for the U.S. persons, a summary of their political views, and activities they had been asked to perform by Defendants and their co-conspirators.









"No one brought up Trump until you did."
_____________________________
The fuck you talking about? You linked an article talking about the Trump campaign.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.”


Edited by SirTripAlot (02/16/18 07:49 PM)


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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: SirTripAlot] * 1
    #24999406 - 02/16/18 07:51 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

The article says the Russians supported the Trump campaign. It makes no claim of the trump campaign "wittingly" being involved, and it certainly makes no mention of Trump being involved; thus your defense of trump was unwarranted and I asked why you brought it up. Why would you defend something not being attacked?


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: krypto2000] * 1
    #24999422 - 02/16/18 07:59 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Nice try.
Your the one telling me to stay on topic, yet your flawed clusterfuck denial  derailed this thread more than anything else. Is ok to be wrong sometimes.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.”


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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #24999425 - 02/16/18 08:00 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Can you quote what I was wrong about please?


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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: krypto2000]
    #24999443 - 02/16/18 08:05 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

krypto2000 said:
Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Unless I see  a paper trail of funds from Trump to these "Russian nationals", nothing burger.

People, foreign governments always try to influence others elections, the US actually creates and installs them.





What does this have to do with Trump or US persons? This is about Russian's interfering with the election. Stay on topic.




Here, I'll go ahead and do it myself to save you the time. Is this the post where you claim I'm wrong?

The one where you say 16 russians interfering with our election on a national scale is a "nothing burger" because there's not a paper trail linking it to trump? Hmm... :strokebeard:


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: krypto2000]
    #24999464 - 02/16/18 08:12 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

krypto2000 said:
Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
LOL

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/russian-indictment-2016-elections-rod-rosenstein-announcement-today-2018-02-16/

"There's no allegation that any American was knowingly involved in the conspiracy, Rosenstein said. Nor was there an allegation that the efforts of the defendants affected the outcome of the election. The indictment, he told reporters, is a reminder that "people are not always who they appear to be"



Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Unless I see  a paper trail of funds from Trump to these "Russian nationals", nothing burger.

People, foreign governments always try to influence others elections, the US actually creates and installs them.





What does this have to do with Trump or US persons? This is about Russian's interfering with the election. Stay on topic.




Ok after this say what you will. For the record. The investigation is about the Trump campaign. We argree on that?

The hopes of all alphabet channels and Dems is to get Trump impeached.....we agree here?

I commented the above as it directly related to the investigation and the hopes it would be linked to Trump.

Then you tell me to stay on topic, even though you clearly linked an article and the whole newsworthy reason....it could be linked to Trump.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.”


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: koods]
    #24999467 - 02/16/18 08:13 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
We now know the trump campaign coordinated with Russia.



No we don't.  Unless you have evidenced that hasn't yet been posted?

Even krypto2000 is now arguing this has nothing to do with Trump being involved.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: SirTripAlot] * 1
    #24999633 - 02/16/18 09:20 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Quote:

krypto2000 said:
Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
LOL

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/russian-indictment-2016-elections-rod-rosenstein-announcement-today-2018-02-16/

"There's no allegation that any American was knowingly involved in the conspiracy, Rosenstein said. Nor was there an allegation that the efforts of the defendants affected the outcome of the election. The indictment, he told reporters, is a reminder that "people are not always who they appear to be"



Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Unless I see  a paper trail of funds from Trump to these "Russian nationals", nothing burger.

People, foreign governments always try to influence others elections, the US actually creates and installs them.





What does this have to do with Trump or US persons? This is about Russian's interfering with the election. Stay on topic.




Ok after this say what you will. For the record. The investigation is about the Trump campaign. We argree on that?

The hopes of all alphabet channels and Dems is to get Trump impeached.....we agree here?

I commented the above as it directly related to the investigation and the hopes it would be linked to Trump.

Then you tell me to stay on topic, even though you clearly linked an article and the whole newsworthy reason....it could be linked to Trump.




The investigation is about the Russian election interference and anything that involved. That MIGHT include trump, it might not. I personally do believe it very unlikely he was not involved but this is not evide ce he was. There has been no evidence he was recently and the existing evidence has been discussed enough already, either it's compelling enough to you or it's not.

Until something new tied to trump comes out I see no reason to argue that as I'm not going to change anyone's mind. I think the major flaw in your thinking here is that you think it's some grand conspiracy to catch trump as opposed to a genuine inquiry into election interference as you have laid out in this post. Do you think the whole investigation is a farce? If so then what's your rational for these legitament indictments?


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24999664 - 02/16/18 09:30 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

koods said:
We now know the trump campaign coordinated with Russia.



No we don't.  Unless you have evidenced that hasn't yet been posted?

Even krypto2000 is now arguing this has nothing to do with Trump being involved.




It's in the fucking indictment.


--------------------
I am a violent pusher of the neo-marxist SJW agenda to destroy society.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: koods]
    #24999691 - 02/16/18 09:38 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Can you please quote the section where the Trump campaign coordinated with Russia?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24999722 - 02/16/18 09:47 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)



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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: koods] * 1
    #24999907 - 02/16/18 11:08 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Not according to this.

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/national-international/Russians-Indicted-US-Election-Meddling-Mueller-474309733.html

"They engaged in operations primarily intended to communicate derogatory information about Hillary Clinton, to denigrate other candidates such as Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio, and to support Bernie Sanders and then-candidate Donald Trump," the indictment states.

The indictment details contacts targeting three unnamed officials in the Trump campaign's Florida operation. In each instance, the Russians used false U.S. personas to contact the officials. The indictment doesn't say if any of them responded, and there's no allegation that any of the campaign officials knew they were communicating with Russians.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.”


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Offlinemusiclover420
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #25000006 - 02/16/18 11:53 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Anyone post this yet:

Mueller levels new claim of bank fraud against Manafort

Quote:

Prosecutors say they've found 'additional criminal conduct' by the former Trump campaign chairman.

Special counsel Robert Mueller’s office has told a federal judge it has found evidence that Paul Manafort, the former Trump campaign chairman, committed bank fraud not addressed by the indictment last October in which he was charged with money laundering and failure to register as a foreign agent.

As legal wrangling continues over a $10 million bail package for Manafort, prosecutors this week accused him of submitting false information to a bank in connection with one of his mortgages.

“The proposed package is deficient in the government’s view, in light of additional criminal conduct that we have learned since the Court’s initial bail determination,” prosecutors wrote in a court filing submitted on Tuesday and made public in a redacted form on Friday evening. “That criminal conduct includes a series of bank frauds and bank fraud conspiracies.”






It's not tied into the Russia stuff, yet, but it's more evidence of very shady financial dealings by people working with Trump :strokebeard:


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: krypto2000] * 1
    #25000045 - 02/17/18 12:06 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

krypto2000 said:
16 indictments with numerous charges from identity theft to bank fraud and conspiracy directly linked to election interference is not news? So if it's not news to you does that mean you accept that the Russian's interfered in the 2016 election?




Unless they swung the election it's not big news. If there was no chance it would lead to Trump it wouldn't be the hot topic. That it doesn't implicate Trump is only a minor issue because it's still alluded to in the context of the ongoing get Trump narrative. Every little tidbit of news that's even slightly related to Trump is about Trump.


--------------------
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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: koods]
    #25000069 - 02/17/18 12:14 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/16/text-full-mueller-indictment-on-russian-election-case-415670

Page 4. Can't copy text to quote from images.



I didn't see it there.  But you can click on the "TEXT" tab and then copy/paste it for us.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Offlinemusiclover420
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: Rahz]
    #25000103 - 02/17/18 12:30 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
Quote:

krypto2000 said:
16 indictments with numerous charges from identity theft to bank fraud and conspiracy directly linked to election interference is not news? So if it's not news to you does that mean you accept that the Russian's interfered in the 2016 election?




Unless they swung the election it's not big news.




We won't really know until all the info comes out. It seems clear that it did have some impact on the election though.

Also I regardless of the potential impact I think the big news is that little to nothing has been done to prevent the same thing from happening this upcoming election.


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: musiclover420]
    #25000156 - 02/17/18 01:01 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

musiclover420 said:
It seems clear that it did have some impact on the election though.



That's not what the Deputy Attorney General said:


"There is no allegation in the indictment that the charged conduct altered the outcome of the 2016 election"


Edit:  SirTripAlot beat me to it.


Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (02/17/18 01:08 AM)


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